what does animation canceling even do

Asardes · February 2018

To be clear: heavy and light attacks make about ~15% of a good parse. So "exploiting" this will not magically transform a mediocre <20K parse into a great >40K parse. So if the good player doing 40K simply stops weaving LA and HA he will still do 34K or more. Any class can put out 20K+ by simply casting 2 DoTs and heavy attacking on top of those, then refreshing then until they run out. Hitting with heavy attacks only is 10K+ already.

If you only do 20K you should ask the following questions:
1) Am I using the proper skills in the right order?
2) Are my buffs and debuffs up all the time?
3) Am I casting my DoTs at the right time?
Those are 80% of your DPS

And only then:
4) It's my gear BiS?
5) Am I weaving properly?
Those are only 20% of your DPS

LeagueTroll · February 2018

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

It's a bug that ZOS couldn't fix so now it's a feature that we all gotta learn if we don't want to be hated on by the community.

False

Mind enlightening me on why it's false? Not that i'll believe you but at least try

There are countless explanations that i personally have provided over many threads going into great detail.

I dont care to do it again. It is objectively not a bug.

"Objectively' meaning my words are not actually false, we just have differing opinions, okay, good to know.

Animation cancel is feature in many big games now. Dude go play league or dota, in league there is raven, q follow by normal attack, animation cancel to combo faster. In dota there is invoker, without animation cancel, change orbs will not very not smooth. If you never heard of league and dota, well that’s your problem.

Sergykid · February 2018

i find it perfectly acceptable that you can weave light attacks in between abilities, it's a skill aspect.
i also find acceptable that you can dodge or block when needed, because you must be on defense on important moments.

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

and about the block / dodge thing when needed, it may involve some skill here too by timing your casts, and if the enemy is casting to strike then.

exeeter702 · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

Sergykid · February 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

I still don't think you understand.

If you are only casting abilities every 1.5 seconds, that has nothing to do with animation canceling. You're just slow.

You can do zero animation canceling and still cast 10 abilities in 10 seconds, you just won't be weaving light attacks.

Sergykid · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

I still don't think you understand.

If you are only casting abilities every 1.5 seconds, that has nothing to do with animation canceling. You're just slow.

You can do zero animation canceling and still cast 10 abilities in 10 seconds, you just won't be weaving light attacks.

i talk about abilities that have longer animations. Why would anyone even animation cancel then? There's abilities with longer than 1 second animations, which if you cancel them u cast the next one faster in the gcd.

Dymence · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

Except that this realistically doesn't happen. In any combat scenario you'll be pressing buttons as fast as possible and as such you are firing them off after the global cooldown.

Unless you press an ability and then stand around watching the butterflies and admiring the scenery?

Edit to further clarify, as long as you are spamming abilities you are firing them off after the 1s GCD period. You do not need to do anything additional to this to 'animation cancel' your abilities.

A_G_G_R_O · February 2018

Milvan wrote: »

Basically there is three kinds of animation cancelling:

weaving = light/heavy atacking with a skill;

bar swapping = you cancel the skill animation swaping your skill bar;

Blocking = you quickly press block to cancel the skill animation, really hard to master.

You forgot bash cancel, it’s finesse AF

LiquidPony · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

I still don't think you understand.

If you are only casting abilities every 1.5 seconds, that has nothing to do with animation canceling. You're just slow.

You can do zero animation canceling and still cast 10 abilities in 10 seconds, you just won't be weaving light attacks.

i talk about abilities that have longer animations. Why would anyone even animation cancel then? There's abilities with longer than 1 second animations, which if you cancel them u cast the next one faster in the gcd.

Which abilities have animations longer than 1 second?

And if you cast a skill exactly one second after casting a skill that (supposedly) has an animation longer than 1 second, what happens?

Danksta · February 2018

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Basically there is three kinds of animation cancelling:

weaving = light/heavy atacking with a skill;

bar swapping = you cancel the skill animation swaping your skill bar;

Blocking = you quickly press block to cancel the skill animation, really hard to master.

You forgot bash cancel, it’s finesse AF

They also forgot dodge roll cancel.

Sergykid · February 2018

so all of u say is that even if you do animation cancel, or you do not, you still cast abilities one per second. Then what's the use of the cancel anyway then? for block / dodge in the instant? that's not even animation cancel, it's defensive play.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

so all of u say is that even if you do animation cancel, or you do not, you still cast abilities one per second. Then what's the use of the cancel anyway then? for block / dodge in the instant? that's not even animation cancel, it's defensive play.

I know this has already been explained like 13 times in this thread.

You "weave" light attacks or heavy attacks in between skills, which is a form of animation canceling, which allows you to cast 1 skill + 1 light attack in a single GCD.

You "swap cancel" out of the last skill you cast on a given bar rather than waiting for the animation to complete and then bar swapping (e.g., Blockade of Storms, swap, Light Attack, Daedric Prey). You've still only cast 1 ability per second (or whatever the exact length of the GCD is), but you put a bar swap in there so you can get to your next skill exactly 1 second later rather than waiting for 1 second for the animation to complete and then .25 seconds for the bar swap to complete (or whatever the exact times may be).

And yes, blocking or dodging or bashing during an animation is "animation canceling." It can be used for defensive play (e.g., in some content, you might want to "block cast" to increase your defense). Many people *used to* block cancel their skills but this is no longer necessary in PvE. It can still be useful in PvP as a way to disguise what you are casting from your opponents, but in no way does any form of animation canceling allow someone to get around the GCD.

Sergykid · February 2018

then what's about the fuss that you do higher dps with animation cancel? you cast one ability per second even if u do or not do cancel. If you talk about light attack weave, that's not even any cancel, it's fairplay skill, light attacks and abilities having separate gcds.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

then what's about the fuss that you do higher dps with animation cancel? you cast one ability per second even if u do or not do cancel. If you talk about light attack weave, that's not even any cancel, it's fairplay skill, light attacks and abilities having separate gcds.

You do higher dps with the animation cancel. You're cancelling the light attack animation which allows you to get it in between skills. You do higher dps because you're doing a light attack every second instead of some people who spam skills one after the other without adding a light attack between them.

The people who spam skills one after another will do less dps.

exeeter702 · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

then what's about the fuss that you do higher dps with animation cancel? you cast one ability per second even if u do or not do cancel. If you talk about light attack weave, that's not even any cancel, it's fairplay skill, light attacks and abilities having separate gcds.

You are creeping into the million dollar question that single handendly plagues individuals on this forum.

For pve, weaving light attacks in with your abilities is standard play and required when doing a proper rotation. Light attacks do nit operateate in their own gcd, this is an innacurate statement. Its difficult to explain but the simplest way to think of it is that a single light attack and an ability are allowed per gcd. Most do not consider attack weaving as animation canceling, myself included. So you are right assume the same.

In pvp, it serves little purpose outside of simply using defensive actions which results in the clipping of ability animations. That is the crux of the issue surrounding topic. Many believe anmiation canceling creates avenues to link abilities together with quick succession faster than the gcd allows (ie faster than 1 per second). As well as believing that cutting off recovery animations of a casted skill somehow speeds its delivery up. This are all woefully ignorant beliefs. The fact that you felt compelled to inquire about animation canceling and brought about resistence to its actually practical value is precicely the problem on a bigger scale, there are far too many people that dont have an understanding of what is really happening and continue influence and spread misinformation. Understand im not bashing you in any way. I just believe you represent an example in have often observed on these forums.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

then what's about the fuss that you do higher dps with animation cancel? you cast one ability per second even if u do or not do cancel. If you talk about light attack weave, that's not even any cancel, it's fairplay skill, light attacks and abilities having separate gcds.

Well, light attack weaving is technically animation canceling because you are, in fact, interrupting the light attack animation with a skill. You do not complete the light attack animation. The same is true of heavy attack weaving.

And, as I said previously, bar swap canceling reduces the amount of time it takes to pass through your rotation thus increasing the total amount of actions you can execute in a given period of time.

hamgatan · February 2018

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

.
@hamgatan: Please take care with your quoting. In your post #79. it should be:

Dymence wrote: »

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

(see post #77). And thanks @Dymence for pointing that out as well (see post #81).

All good brah. Posting from phone. Mistakes get made.

Draxys · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

Ok so since macros are legal in ESO. Use experiment and set up multi-command one button press animation cancel abilities/routines.

Some attacks works others don't. However programming a macro software to take out the human error, is mostly what you need.

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

Then get a MMO mouse like this one.

Which allows you to have all your key shortcuts, at your thumb. There for no need to reach across your keyboard.

Do you live in the server room

Sergykid · February 2018

ok so many repetitive posts. I get it, you get it, everyone gets it. In conclusion:

1) light attack weaving is not animation cancel, is something you must improve in your dps. Yes, you cancel the light attack's animation, but since it has its own gcd, i find it fair.

2) block / dodge cancel is for defensive purposes to do when needed, it doesn't increase your dps if you cancel your abilities with block.

3) canceling an ability's animation to cast another won't do it faster cuz it's locked by abilities gcd, so either spamming abilities or cancelling them, you still cast one ability per one second.

In conclusion i don't find problems about animation canceling, the only gain from here is canceling the light attack's animation, which is explained at 1). If i didn't miss anything else, from my opinion, [/thread].

Izaki · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

if i am casting an ability for 1.5 seconds against u casting it in 1 second using animation cancel, it's not fair.
i cast 10 abilities in 12 seconds. U cast those 10 abilities in 10 seconds. U win through animation cancelling.

I still don't think you understand.

If you are only casting abilities every 1.5 seconds, that has nothing to do with animation canceling. You're just slow.

You can do zero animation canceling and still cast 10 abilities in 10 seconds, you just won't be weaving light attacks.

i talk about abilities that have longer animations. Why would anyone even animation cancel then? There's abilities with longer than 1 second animations, which if you cancel them u cast the next one faster in the gcd.

No good player animation cancels anything at all, aside from barswaps. And as far as the abilities with long animations go, light attack weaving or just spamming the skill will cut off the back end of the animation by itself anyway.

exeeter702 · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

ok so many repetitive posts. I get it, you get it, everyone gets it. In conclusion:

1) light attack weaving is not animation cancel, is something you must improve in your dps. Yes, you cancel the light attack's animation, but since it has its own gcd, i find it fair.

2) block / dodge cancel is for defensive purposes to do when needed, it doesn't increase your dps if you cancel your abilities with block.

3) canceling an ability's animation to cast another won't do it faster cuz it's locked by abilities gcd, so either spamming abilities or cancelling them, you still cast one ability per one second.

In conclusion i don't find problems about animation canceling, the only gain from here is canceling the light attack's animation, which is explained at 1). If i didn't miss anything else, from my opinion, [/thread].

Congratulations.

Now prepare to fight the good fight on these forums

LordSemaj · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

ok so many repetitive posts. I get it, you get it, everyone gets it. In conclusion:

1) light attack weaving is not animation cancel, is something you must improve in your dps. Yes, you cancel the light attack's animation, but since it has its own gcd, i find it fair.

2) block / dodge cancel is for defensive purposes to do when needed, it doesn't increase your dps if you cancel your abilities with block.

3) canceling an ability's animation to cast another won't do it faster cuz it's locked by abilities gcd, so either spamming abilities or cancelling them, you still cast one ability per one second.

In conclusion i don't find problems about animation canceling, the only gain from here is canceling the light attack's animation, which is explained at 1). If i didn't miss anything else, from my opinion, [/thread].

Grats, you understand.

Now help us make 3 million other people understand the same thing.

Irylia · February 2018

https://youtu.be/-5cYdIN7mA0

This is what it does

Lord-Otto · February 2018

Word of warning:
Block cancelling (PvP) can cause you to accidentally block if you get hit in the split second you're blocking, thus draining your stamina. A problem, especially for magicka classes. It also slows you down for that split second, and if you blocked before or after, it will likely interrupt your stamina regeneration for a tick.
Use with caution!

Vahrokh · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Animation cancelling merely triggers people who can't do it and think that being able to do it will add 10-15k DPS to their rotation (hint: it won't).

And yet the people who can do it still spend time on the forums mocking those who can’t do it, and calling them things like trash and lazy.

Mocking? Maybe, I guess.

I wouldn't call anyone who "can't" animation cancel trash, but lazy is probably appropriate if a bit rude.

I would just say that anyone who won't do animation canceling (because if you can light attack and you can bar swap, you can animation cancel) is uninterested in getting better, for whatever the reason.

A good reason is: it feels totally weird to magically summon a third arm swinging a massive axe in half a second, in betwen two long animation other attacks. It breaks any immersion.

Vahrokh · February 2018

Zapzarap wrote: »

THE IMPORTATN THING of AC is NOT beeing stuck in an animation if you need to block an incomming attack or something else. Just imagine beeing stuck in templar beem, or something else that takes a longer time... and than you need to block/doge.

Why would someone not pay for his short-sigthness at engaging the shield in a timely manner?
It's just fair that if you mis-time defense, then you get hit. But then, we'd have zillion of 2 button spammers suddenly die to this new "Dark Souls" effect.

Vahrokh · February 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

You should be able to block instantly and then have to wait for the whole GCD. So you can still have your "oh sh..." button without being able to exploit 1 light attack per GCD.

Aurielle · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

You should be able to block instantly and then have to wait for the whole GCD. So you can still have your "oh sh..." button without being able to exploit 1 light attack per GCD.

Light attack weaving is not an exploit... To repeat what I said earlier in this thread, light attacks are essentially ESO's active equivalent of the passive light-damage auto attacks you see in most other MMORPGs. Auto attacks fire off during the global skill cooldown in those games whether you like it or not, adding to your DPS and making combat appear (visually-speaking) more dynamic; weaving fulfills the same purpose, but is way more enjoyable because we are in control -- not the game's auto attack timer. Without weaving, combat in ESO would look and feel unbearably slow. Do you really want to sit there waiting 1-1.5 seconds until you can click your next skill, or do you want it to be a fast-paced, engaging experience?

exeeter702 · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

the problem with animation canceling is that u can stop an ability's animation to cast another one faster. This is unfair higher dps over some players and unfair in pvp too.

Are you intentionally ignoring the information being provided to you here? I will say it again just so you are 100 percent in the clear and understand this simple truth.

You can NOT cast abilities faster than the GCD allows. No amount of block, bash, dodge roll or bar swapping will change this. Animation canceling has ZERO bearing on ability use frequency, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesnt have the faintest clue about what he or she is talking about on this topic.

You should be able to block instantly and then have to wait for the whole GCD. So you can still have your "oh sh..." button without being able to exploit 1 light attack per GCD.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Zapzarap wrote: »

THE IMPORTATN THING of AC is NOT beeing stuck in an animation if you need to block an incomming attack or something else. Just imagine beeing stuck in templar beem, or something else that takes a longer time... and than you need to block/doge.

Why would someone not pay for his short-sigthness at engaging the shield in a timely manner?
It's just fair that if you mis-time defense, then you get hit. But then, we'd have zillion of 2 button spammers suddenly die to this new "Dark Souls" effect.

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