Maelstrom Ice Staff: Time for a New Enchantment Because You Made it a Tanking Weapon, ZOS

KanedaSyndrome · January 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

How about if Maelstrom Ice Staff gets a Wall of Elements enchant that immobilizes enemies for a few seconds?

That would allow all classes to use Malestrom Ice Staff for trash mobs immobilization because currently Dragonknight and Warden are only tanks with AOE immobilization.

Doesnt wall of elements already immobilize enemies that are chilled? Meaning it should have a high chance to immobilize with a frost staff on the second or third ticks.

You are correct. Wall of Elements immobilizes enemies.

Luckylancer · January 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Very much agree if they intend to keep it for tanking.

I wonder if they'll ever revert. If not, they need to start taking the Ice Staff tanking decision seriously. The idea was fine, but the implementation was poorly thought-out.

On the most simple level, One Hand and Shield allows 12 slots and has a taunt that also provides Major Fracture and Major Breach. Ice Staff should at least receive that. It's currently decent as a back bar, but it's not a serious contender as a main tanking weapon.

Slot Ranged taunt (like everyone) + Slot ele drain instead of melee taunt = You got better version of melee taunt and your healer dont have to cast ele drain

Dont use weak arguments, they dont help you.

f047ys3v3n · January 2018

Make a former DPS weapon a tank weapon

Immediately after make a class with a DPS bonus to the element for that former dps weapon.

Leave all the ability altering enchants for that weapon damage.

Make heavy attacks a taunt so that you cannot use that weapon for damage in dungeons.

Make heavy attacks take such a long duration that no tank could really be reasonably expected to be able to fit them in between blocks in a boss fight.

Require heavy attacks for all DPS builds so that if they are using that weapon you will taunt.

Leave things this way for the better part of a year.

If all this make to you, you are Wrobel.

If it does not make sense to you than you understand something about how combat actually works in game.

Avran_Sylt · January 2018

Could have the enchantment make the slow of the Frost wall more effective, like 70-80%.

idk · January 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Very much agree if they intend to keep it for tanking.

I wonder if they'll ever revert. If not, they need to start taking the Ice Staff tanking decision seriously. The idea was fine, but the implementation was poorly thought-out.

On the most simple level, One Hand and Shield allows 12 slots and has a taunt that also provides Major Fracture and Major Breach. Ice Staff should at least receive that. It's currently decent as a back bar, but it's not a serious contender as a main tanking weapon.

If they do revert it the enchant should be reverted as well. For now, it should have an appropriate enchant.

idk · January 2018

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

How about if Maelstrom Ice Staff gets a Wall of Elements enchant that immobilizes enemies for a few seconds?

That would allow all classes to use Malestrom Ice Staff for trash mobs immobilization because currently Dragonknight and Warden are only tanks with AOE immobilization.

Doesnt wall of elements already immobilize enemies that are chilled? Meaning it should have a high chance to immobilize with a frost staff on the second or third ticks.

I think the only destruction staff frost skill that immobilizes enemies is Destructive Touch (and morphs). Wall of Elements definitely provides chilled status (slows enemies) but I don't think it can currently immobilize.

Maybe I was thinking of one of the warden skills, been a while since i've played

Probably Warden. There's an AOE ice skill with a morph that immobilizes.

It's the wall of elements that immobilizes, the warden skill just provides chilled.

Gripping Shards immobilizes enemies on cast. It is the tanking morph.

KanedaSyndrome · January 2018

idk wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

How about if Maelstrom Ice Staff gets a Wall of Elements enchant that immobilizes enemies for a few seconds?

That would allow all classes to use Malestrom Ice Staff for trash mobs immobilization because currently Dragonknight and Warden are only tanks with AOE immobilization.

Doesnt wall of elements already immobilize enemies that are chilled? Meaning it should have a high chance to immobilize with a frost staff on the second or third ticks.

I think the only destruction staff frost skill that immobilizes enemies is Destructive Touch (and morphs). Wall of Elements definitely provides chilled status (slows enemies) but I don't think it can currently immobilize.

Maybe I was thinking of one of the warden skills, been a while since i've played

Probably Warden. There's an AOE ice skill with a morph that immobilizes.

It's the wall of elements that immobilizes, the warden skill just provides chilled.

Gripping Shards immobilizes enemies on cast. It is the tanking morph.

Ah yeh, I'm using the other one where you can place where you want.

KanedaSyndrome · January 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Make a former DPS weapon a tank weapon

Immediately after make a class with a DPS bonus to the element for that former dps weapon.

Leave all the ability altering enchants for that weapon damage.

Make heavy attacks a taunt so that you cannot use that weapon for damage in dungeons.

Make heavy attacks take such a long duration that no tank could really be reasonably expected to be able to fit them in between blocks in a boss fight.

Require heavy attacks for all DPS builds so that if they are using that weapon you will taunt.

Leave things this way for the better part of a year.

If all this make to you, you are Wrobel.

If it does not make sense to you than you understand something about how combat actually works in game.

Yep, this hasn't been thought through. It needs fixing, preferably such that you can morph into a role instead of having to avoid a whole elemental damage type in case you want to dps or tank.

Where's the shock tank? The fire tank?

esp1992 · January 2018

Just avoid the Tri-Focus Passive, Thats what I do.
I use the Frost Staff ALL the time.

KanedaSyndrome · January 2018

esp1992 wrote: »

Just avoid the Tri-Focus Passive, Thats what I do.
I use the Frost Staff ALL the time.

I do like having the ability to get a damage shield on heavy attack, and ignoring a passive isn't the fix for anything.

RGvolterra · January 2018

In fact , it should never have been turned into a tanking weapon as the idea behind it is not innovative at all. ZOS should bring it back to its last category which is DPS and increase cold damage performance as it’s been a laugh when one needs to use it to pull any cold damage. They should also be a bit more creative and add some nicer cold animation to make the use of the staff more immersive.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Could have the enchantment make the slow of the Frost wall more effective, like 70-80%.

I could get behind something like that. Although I prefer immobilize so all tanking classes have a chance to immobilize mobs.

Lord_Eomer · February 2018

Infact, there is no BIS gear for Ice Tanks except they have to rely on same old gears.

Wait, do ice tanks exist in Tamriel?

Lynx7386 · February 2018

RGvolterra wrote: »

In fact , it should never have been turned into a tanking weapon as the idea behind it is not innovative at all. ZOS should bring it back to its last category which is DPS and increase cold damage performance as it’s been a laugh when one needs to use it to pull any cold damage. They should also be a bit more creative and add some nicer cold animation to make the use of the staff more immersive.

I disagree. There is no way to make frost staff a viable dps weapon without negatively impacting fire or shock staves.

More people are using frost staves now than they ever did when it was a subpar dps weapon.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Infact, there is no BIS gear for Ice Tanks except they have to rely on same old gears.

Wait, do ice tanks exist in Tamriel?

Yes, they do. Any good warden tank at the very least back bars a frost staff.

Luigi_Vampa · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

RGvolterra wrote: »

In fact , it should never have been turned into a tanking weapon as the idea behind it is not innovative at all. ZOS should bring it back to its last category which is DPS and increase cold damage performance as it’s been a laugh when one needs to use it to pull any cold damage. They should also be a bit more creative and add some nicer cold animation to make the use of the staff more immersive.

I disagree. There is no way to make frost staff a viable dps weapon without negatively impacting fire or shock staves.

More people are using frost staves now than they ever did when it was a subpar dps weapon.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Infact, there is no BIS gear for Ice Tanks except they have to rely on same old gears.

Wait, do ice tanks exist in Tamriel?

Yes, they do. Any good warden tank at the very least back bars a frost staff.

What is your criteria for a good Warden tank? Progression tanks setting scores for vet trials? Because if you are just talking about tanking pledges then you don't really need to be BIS. Most elite trial tanks I see use lighting staff back bar for off balance uptime.

What exactly does a Warden tank need a frost staff back bar for? You shouldn't be running out of stamina, so you shouldn't need magicka reserves for blocking. Gripping Shards is better than Blockade of Ice. Inner Fire is a faster ranged taunt. If it is for dps increase, as a tank you'll get better group dps with a lighting staff back bar... so, why would a Warden back bar an Ice Staff?

Lynx7386 · February 2018

Off balance is getting nerfed next patch anyways, tanks won't need to run it anymore (not that they did anyways, usually a magdk or mag templar will have it available).

Luigi_Vampa · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Off balance is getting nerfed next patch anyways, tanks won't need to run it anymore (not that they did anyways, usually a magdk or mag templar will have it available).

Right, but that doesn't really answer the question. Why does any good Warden tank slot frost staff back bar? What does frost staff do better than the other options tanks have, and what do you consider a "good" Warden tank?

Lynx7386 · February 2018

A free taunt at range that doesn't take up a skill slot, a ranged interrupt, easier application and higher uptime for chilled / minor maim on groups, which synergizes with gripping shards for immobilization, better proc rate for your mainhand enchant with blockade, a way to restore magicka, etc. Etc.

What other options are you going to put there? A lightning or fire staff will drop your armor and defense while on back bar, they don't synergize with shards like frost blockade does, you lose out on the warden frost damage passive while using them, you can't use magicka to block, literally the only reason is for Off balance which, as I said, is often covered better by other characters in the group and offers nothing else of benefit to a tank.

And 99% of endgame here is vet dungeons and PvP, I hardly consider trials endgame for the majority of players.

Luigi_Vampa · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

A free taunt at range that doesn't take up a skill slot, a ranged interrupt, easier application and higher uptime for chilled / minor maim on groups, which synergizes with gripping shards for immobilization, better proc rate for your mainhand enchant with blockade, a way to restore magicka, etc. Etc.

What other options are you going to put there? A lightning or fire staff will drop your armor and defense while on back bar, they don't synergize with shards like frost blockade does, you lose out on the warden frost damage passive while using them, you can't use magicka to block, literally the only reason is for Off balance which, as I said, is often covered better by other characters in the group and offers nothing else of benefit to a tank.

And 99% of endgame here is vet dungeons and PvP, I hardly consider trials endgame for the majority of players.

Fair enough.

That free taunt is hardly worth it as with difficult content you really don't want to be wasting the time it takes to charge a frost heavy attack. Granted it will increase chilled uptime and enchant proc rate. If you are heavy attacking to restore magicka on your tank, I'd say your build might have some problems.

For me, I'd rather double bar sword and shield so I don't lose my second 5 piece bonus. You lose all the mitigation from 1h & S when using a frost staff. I just don't think frost staff brings much to the table.

Sure you can back bar it for Vet Dungeons, but a lot of Vet Dungeons don't even really require a tank unfortunately. I don't really consider that end-game.

Back on point with the thread though, it makes no sense that Ice still has damage sets, and that Maelstrom Ice Staff has the same damage enchant as Lightning and Fire even though it is a tanking weapon now.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

What mitigation are you losing going from 1h/shield to frost staff? Frost staves have an armor value now, and its increased by the same champion points shields are. You don't lose any block mitigation either.

The set bonus thing I agree with though, I've been asking for 2h weapons to count for two set bonuses pretty much since launch. That's certainly the one downside to the frost staff as a back bar option right now (and more so as a main bar option). Hopefully that get a fixed soon.

sharquez · February 2018

The wall of elements set bonus, will probably stay the way it's going to stay, Ice staff is useful for classes such as nightblade and templars who need AOE root options and bundling taunt with resource management is a nice bonus because there will be occasions where the going gets tough and you need those resources. Ice staff tanking in my experience while being off meta is compromise between tankiness and the ability to deal damage and is a nice way to improve run speed in 4 man vet dungeons without critically compromising the groups ability to complete it. Often times you don't need VHM warrior levels of tankyness on a character to get a clear. it is a creative option for those that want to try a different style of tanking. that said, If a change were to be made to the VMA set bonus on Ice staves all i would ask is instead of extra damage, would be a 100% chance to chill on light and heavy attacks.

Toast_STS · February 2018

I wish they would convert maelstrom ice staves to winter born ice staff. Probably the hardest weapon to get atm with no smart loot for maelstrom gear =(

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Now that the Ice Staff is a tanking weapon, it seems foolish that the Maelstrom Ice Staff still has the same specialized Wall of Elements damage-centric enchant as Lightning and Fire staves.

(image correction: minus the spell damage, because that's gone now)

I can't imagine that there are many players out there who are dropping ice walls and spamming light/heavy attacks. It's time for a brainstorm that will give the Maelstrom Ice Staff an enchantment that is tanking focused, please.

Edit: Maybe the new enchantment could be that Ice Wall of Elements immobilizes enemies. Then ALL tanks would have potential access to immobilize for mobs (instead of just DK and Warden).

Yeh. Or make ice wall taunt. I'd use ot for dungeons maybe.

Radiance · February 2018

Think we're all forgetting the one crucial aspect of Ice that makes it completely OP as a DPS Magic...
The fact that you can freeze the target in place, almost every ice ability is a crowd control attack, if that was stacked with damage rivaling fire or lighting it would be game over for the other magic types...
Ice fits well as a tanking magic with hardening abilities and defensive constructs like Ice Fortress, Crystal Shield and the Ice Heart Monster helm Damage shield is perfect for pulling mobs while stacking the AoEs for CC...
Ice tanking is actually pretty fun especially with a Warden...

What I would like to see is like an Earth Tanking staff or some new Brass Knuckle/Martial Arts weapon and/or some kind of Plant/Poison thorns DPS Stam-Magic skilltree because I was disappointed with the Warden's Green Pact skillLine focusing solely on healing...

jakeedmundson · February 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It should never have been made into a tanking weapon in the first place.

Revert the changes, and make it into a viable DPS option.

I second this. There's gonna be the 1 person that actually uses it to tank come in here and start a fuss though. I've always enjoyed the idea of frost magic and being a cryomancer, would love for it to be a viable DPS option on a MagDen

Its me... i use it to tank dungeons to add a little dps to the crap pugs.

However, i fully support the revert to a viable dps weapon. It needs to have some kind of debuff to enemies and an actual CC that helps your group in vet dungeons and trials. Since it will never match damage output of lightning or inferno staves...

Lord_Eomer · February 2018

lol, ZOS is non serious to improve Ice Tanking. Do you think they will pay attention to VMA Ice Staff?

GrumpyDuckling · February 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol, ZOS is non serious to improve Ice Tanking. Do you think they will pay attention to VMA Ice Staff?

The block cost changes in the new DLC is a start for improving ice staff tanking. I'm still somewhat hopeful that VMA ice staff gets updated.