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Questions with Ice staff tanking and Nightblade.
Zach2322
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With dragon bones coming to console soon, I reached the realization that I only play my warden now and only pvp with it. When I started out when the game first came to console, my first character was a nightblade which has been my main for some time. I also have 1 of every other class as I'm not to big on making 2 of every class. Even then I don't even play my templar, dk, or sorc as I don't find them fun. My plan is to save my nightblade from just serving as an occasional crafter. I have played the nightblade as a stam/mag dps, healer, and tank. I enjoy the tank spec the most but I have gotten tired of S&B. So here are my questions...
With the changes to block cost, is the can the ice staff contribute anything worth while in a vet dungeon? The scenario I'm thinking of is using the staff as the primary tanking tool instead of the traditional S&B with any class besides warden.
Since you would either have to settle for 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 as set pieces which would be better to have? Im aware that I will be losing out on the slot the shield would give along with the enchant and defense, but it's not for vet trails.
Any help regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to lose my nightblade to the fate of most mains to become nothing more than a crafter.
(Ps. Pvp is out of the question as I refuse to play with the faction it is on. Any time you want to add faction change as a 1 time use Zos, my wallet will be waiting.)
Update 2/17/18: after reading over these comments I decided to stick with my current setup with s&b/staff. After doing 2 pledges with some friends we went to vet mazz and ended up getting the skin in 3 runs with only running into problems with hardmode when the stone shaper came out at execute range with the totem up. Ended the night with vet falkreath where our healer swapped to dps as one of our other dps was drinking and getting annoyed at dying from the mechanics. 0 trouble on sustain and add control on my part without healer support. To be honest, I actually had more fun with this tank spec than the pre-morrowind spec.
Edit: changed the title to better fit the topic.
Edited by Zach2322 on February 17, 2018 3:54PM With the changes to block cost, is the can the ice staff contribute anything worth while in a vet dungeon? The scenario I'm thinking of is using the staff as the primary tanking tool instead of the traditional S&B with any class besides warden.
Since you would either have to settle for 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 as set pieces which would be better to have? Im aware that I will be losing out on the slot the shield would give along with the enchant and defense, but it's not for vet trails.
Any help regarding these questions would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to lose my nightblade to the fate of most mains to become nothing more than a crafter.
(Ps. Pvp is out of the question as I refuse to play with the faction it is on. Any time you want to add faction change as a 1 time use Zos, my wallet will be waiting.)
Update 2/17/18: after reading over these comments I decided to stick with my current setup with s&b/staff. After doing 2 pledges with some friends we went to vet mazz and ended up getting the skin in 3 runs with only running into problems with hardmode when the stone shaper came out at execute range with the totem up. Ended the night with vet falkreath where our healer swapped to dps as one of our other dps was drinking and getting annoyed at dying from the mechanics. 0 trouble on sustain and add control on my part without healer support. To be honest, I actually had more fun with this tank spec than the pre-morrowind spec.
Edit: changed the title to better fit the topic.
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Best Answers
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ANGEL_BtVS✭✭✭✭It's not BiS but it's doable. Most meta builds still go with S&B on both bars even on Wardens. Even the ones that don't still use S&B on the main bar.5 -
Nolic1✭✭✭Yes Nightblade can ice staff tank in dungeons fine and can even off tank trials with an ice staff if the group allows both normal and vet even HM dungeons can be tanked with Ice staff. But again comes down to who you play with. Here this might help with your tank.
https://youtu.be/-xM9MlYeh7g
I hope this helps this build has been tested in dungeons both normal and vet and has been used mostly in vet HM dungeons in testing it has also off tanked most trials in normal and some in vet. But feel free to change it to what you enjoy race gear and even class.Sherman from Sherman's Gaming
Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.
Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw8 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm currently working on an off tank that uses an ice staff right now focused on wards and resource sustain via taking damage. I'm calling it the Atronach, just gotta finish hammering out the kinks."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm5
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Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭Play the way you want, dont let the meta ruin your fun.
Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU6 -
Zach2322✭✭✭ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »It's not BiS but it's doable. Most meta builds still go with S&B on both bars even on Wardens. Even the ones that don't still use S&B on the main bar.
It's a good thing a nightblade tank isn't meta or bis, if I wanted that I would play my boring dk. And while I have been using S&B for a while while running as a nightblade tank, it's grown boring. That's why I'm taking a non meta approach to it and thinking of doing 2 staffs and basic idea of "how can I make a nightblade tank feel like a magblade or a off healer for those squishy 5k dps standing in red while tanking"0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »Sadly it’s not a solid choice, you can’t run 552 set up with ice staff.
Not a solid choice for trials, yes. But for dungeons, is that 2pc even needed on a tank? I get ult gen from blood spawn for dk and warden but on a nightblade, you generate ulti fast due to siphoning abilities and having soul harvest slotted. You would be surprised how often you get the final hit on something as a tank or healer.0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
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(Ps. Pvp is out of the question as I refuse to play with the faction it is on. Any time you want to add faction change as a 1 time use Zos, my wallet will be waiting.)
to this YES, I want it too
and so yes I think about it to let my char fronm the other faction which I don´t do anything with atm, she can be my NB frost tank, will dive in there tonight,
LET´S DO IT, dream it possible!0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭Yes Nightblade can ice staff tank in dungeons fine and can even off tank trials with an ice staff if the group allows both normal and vet even HM dungeons can be tanked with Ice staff. But again comes down to who you play with. Here this might help with your tank.https://youtu.be/-xM9MlYeh7g
I hope this helps this build has been tested in dungeons both normal and vet and has been used mostly in vet HM dungeons in testing it has also off tanked most trials in normal and some in vet. But feel free to change it to what you enjoy race gear and even class.
Cool, thanks for the video guide. Going to check it out later today when I have time and see what I can adapt from it to the build I've been working on. That last sentence made me laugh even if it wasn't intentional.0 -
jaye63✭✭✭✭Play the way you want, dont let the meta ruin your fun.
But dont be surprised if you get kicked from a dungeon/trials group0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭
Honestly, I don't remember ever getting kicked out of dungeons or trial groups. Then again, I don't really do trials anymore. If I didn't get kicked from a WGT Hm before it was needed as a nightblade healer, then I'm pretty sure I will not get kicked with this once I get it worked out.
On a different note on kicking people, if you end up kicking someone based on seeing what class role they are, are you doing so because you don't feel comfortable with their choice, have experienced a bad player running a build similar, or they were a fake tank/healer/dps? If it's the later 2, I understand completely, however I wouldn't kick someone until the first boss. If you struggle with them in their role, then it's a safe bet to be ready to kick them. If it's a breeze, why would you care if a class is doing a non meta role?
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Zach2322✭✭✭ParaNostram wrote: »I'm currently working on an off tank that uses an ice staff right now focused on wards and resource sustain via taking damage. I'm calling it the Atronach, just gotta finish hammering out the kinks.
Cool, which class are you trying it on? It sounds like a sorc but I can see it on the other classes as well to a lesser degree since they don't have a magicka based shield built into their class0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Frost staff isn't as bad as a lot of people say. I ran frost/resto on a NB tank/off healer for a while, did pretty well in vet dungeons. Wouldn't have gone into trials or PVP, but that was more due to my ability and armor setup. If you're looking for pure tank, however, or want to be better equipped for trials, I would recommend more 1h+shield/frost instead of using frost primarily. I'm working on some theorycrafting with this stuff myself right now. Frost seems less for straight up tanking and more for tanking support than anything.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
jaye63✭✭✭✭
Honestly, I don't remember ever getting kicked out of dungeons or trial groups. Then again, I don't really do trials anymore. If I didn't get kicked from a WGT Hm before it was needed as a nightblade healer, then I'm pretty sure I will not get kicked with this once I get it worked out.
On a different note on kicking people, if you end up kicking someone based on seeing what class role they are, are you doing so because you don't feel comfortable with their choice, have experienced a bad player running a build similar, or they were a fake tank/healer/dps? If it's the later 2, I understand completely, however I wouldn't kick someone until the first boss. If you struggle with them in their role, then it's a safe bet to be ready to kick them. If it's a breeze, why would you care if a class is doing a non meta role?
Im not saying anyone cant play their way. What Im saying is that if you cant do the job, people arent going to accept that way because it interferes with THEIR way. I've seen 2 Ice staff tanks that actually can do the job. I've been playing for nearly 2 years. I dont mind you playing your way.... over there so it doesnt interfere with or make my way less fun. Bring that Ice staff tank to Bloodroot vet and Im going to immediately vote to kick. Most other places where it's not as important... I wont care. But it's less of a tank so dont be surprised that people are going to kick you. You have the right to your choice. You dont have the right to force it on me.
Because of those 2, Im open to the idea. Because of the tons of bad ones, I'm not open to the idea unless I've see you in a stressed situation. Period. My game play doesnt have to suffer because you want a novelty build.0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭Frost staff isn't as bad as a lot of people say. I ran frost/resto on a NB tank/off healer for a while, did pretty well in vet dungeons. Wouldn't have gone into trials or PVP, but that was more due to my ability and armor setup. If you're looking for pure tank, however, or want to be better equipped for trials, I would recommend more 1h+shield/frost instead of using frost primarily. I'm working on some theorycrafting with this stuff myself right now. Frost seems less for straight up tanking and more for tanking support than anything.
I was thinking of running one of my many maelstrom resto staff on the back bar to give that extra magicka regen. Right now I am actually using the few of staff as a back bar only for wall of frost to snare. I would rather attack weave with the staff than the shield on fights that d ont require me to keep block up 50% of the fight.0 -
jaye63✭✭✭✭Frost staff isn't as bad as a lot of people say. I ran frost/resto on a NB tank/off healer for a while, did pretty well in vet dungeons. Wouldn't have gone into trials or PVP, but that was more due to my ability and armor setup. If you're looking for pure tank, however, or want to be better equipped for trials, I would recommend more 1h+shield/frost instead of using frost primarily. I'm working on some theorycrafting with this stuff myself right now. Frost seems less for straight up tanking and more for tanking support than anything.
I was thinking of running one of my many maelstrom resto staff on the back bar to give that extra magicka regen. Right now I am actually using the few of staff as a back bar only for wall of frost to snare. I would rather attack weave with the staff than the shield on fights that d ont require me to keep block up 50% of the fight.
I rarely "keep the block up". Ebon+Fort Brass+ spike armor+ another buff = max resist so the only time I have to block is during Boss heavy and power skill. That way I can focus on chaining adz into the fray, taunting, etc. A tank doesnt just stand there.0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭
Honestly, I don't remember ever getting kicked out of dungeons or trial groups. Then again, I don't really do trials anymore. If I didn't get kicked from a WGT Hm before it was needed as a nightblade healer, then I'm pretty sure I will not get kicked with this once I get it worked out.
On a different note on kicking people, if you end up kicking someone based on seeing what class role they are, are you doing so because you don't feel comfortable with their choice, have experienced a bad player running a build similar, or they were a fake tank/healer/dps? If it's the later 2, I understand completely, however I wouldn't kick someone until the first boss. If you struggle with them in their role, then it's a safe bet to be ready to kick them. If it's a breeze, why would you care if a class is doing a non meta role?
Im not saying anyone cant play their way. What Im saying is that if you cant do the job, people arent going to accept that way because it interferes with THEIR way. I've seen 2 Ice staff tanks that actually can do the job. I've been playing for nearly 2 years. I dont mind you playing your way.... over there so it doesnt interfere with or make my way less fun. Bring that Ice staff tank to Bloodroot vet and Im going to immediately vote to kick. Most other places where it's not as important... I wont care. But it's less of a tank so dont be surprised that people are going to kick you. You have the right to your choice. You dont have the right to force it on me.
Because of those 2, Im open to the idea. Because of the tons of bad ones, I'm not open to the idea unless I've see you in a stressed situation. Period. My game play doesnt have to suffer because you want a novelty build.
Sorry if that post came off as offensive. You seem to gave have defeninatly been beaten down by alot of bad pug groups. That being said, I'm no stranger to the idea that the way I want to play my nightblade isn't welcome by everyone. I wouldn't dream of taking it into some of the doc dungeons until I have completely mastered it's style. Even then I wouldn't pug them.1 -
Zach2322✭✭✭Frost staff isn't as bad as a lot of people say. I ran frost/resto on a NB tank/off healer for a while, did pretty well in vet dungeons. Wouldn't have gone into trials or PVP, but that was more due to my ability and armor setup. If you're looking for pure tank, however, or want to be better equipped for trials, I would recommend more 1h+shield/frost instead of using frost primarily. I'm working on some theorycrafting with this stuff myself right now. Frost seems less for straight up tanking and more for tanking support than anything.
I was thinking of running one of my many maelstrom resto staff on the back bar to give that extra magicka regen. Right now I am actually using the few of staff as a back bar only for wall of frost to snare. I would rather attack weave with the staff than the shield on fights that d ont require me to keep block up 50% of the fight.
I rarely "keep the block up". Ebon+Fort Brass+ spike armor+ another buff = max resist so the only time I have to block is during Boss heavy and power skill. That way I can focus on chaining adz into the fray, taunting, etc. A tank doesnt just stand there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not new to tanking. Different classes require different solutions to survival and add management. Since the nb doesn't possess a root or chains, the ice staff is a good choice for cc, while swarm mother is perfect for the chain effect especially when coupled with ice staff for its cost free taunt on its heavy0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Frost staff isn't as bad as a lot of people say. I ran frost/resto on a NB tank/off healer for a while, did pretty well in vet dungeons. Wouldn't have gone into trials or PVP, but that was more due to my ability and armor setup. If you're looking for pure tank, however, or want to be better equipped for trials, I would recommend more 1h+shield/frost instead of using frost primarily. I'm working on some theorycrafting with this stuff myself right now. Frost seems less for straight up tanking and more for tanking support than anything.
I was thinking of running one of my many maelstrom resto staff on the back bar to give that extra magicka regen. Right now I am actually using the few of staff as a back bar only for wall of frost to snare. I would rather attack weave with the staff than the shield on fights that d ont require me to keep block up 50% of the fight.
Pretty much the same thing I found. I wanted really good stamina recovery, because there aren't many good options for stamina restoration as a magicka NB tank, and a high magicka pool so I could get a lot of relatively powerful heals off. It worked well enough, I was able to get plenty of magicka back just with the occasional resto heavy, and I only used a bit of stamina every now and then, so just putting some cp points into stamina recovery was plenty. Running this route should be very doable, even if it's not the best.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
victoriana-blue✭✭✭✭You're talking about Swarm Mother so it sounds like you know what you're getting into. I go 5/4/2 on my frost bar because I like the monster helm bonuses better than another 5pc, but that's up to you.
Don't forget about the ranged interrupt and elemental drain: I'm sure you've noticed, but dps don't like to interrupt because it lowers their numbers and having a ranged interrupt is great in places like Cradle of Shadows. Having drain available is useful because you don't have to count on a healer slotting it, and if the healer is running it your group can use it in multiple boss fights for extra regen.
Blockade + path keeps most melee trash on me without using taunts (as long as the dps let me pull first ;p ), so I only have to taunt the ranged mobs and the few escapees.CP 750+
Never enough inventory space, even with storage coffers and a mule account0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭victoriana-blue wrote: »You're talking about Swarm Mother so it sounds like you know what you're getting into. I go 5/4/2 on my frost bar because I like the monster helm bonuses better than another 5pc, but that's up to you.
Don't forget about the ranged interrupt and elemental drain: I'm sure you've noticed, but dps don't like to interrupt because it lowers their numbers and having a ranged interrupt is great in places like Cradle of Shadows. Having drain available is useful because you don't have to count on a healer slotting it, and if the healer is running it your group can use it in multiple boss fights for extra regen.
Blockade + path keeps most melee trash on me without using taunts (as long as the dps let me pull first ;p ), so I only have to taunt the ranged mobs and the few escapees.
I will admit running ele drain didn't cross my mind. However since I'm replacing the s&B taunt with mark from the assassination skill line since it applies the same debuffs, I wouldn't want both of them as it would be a waste of a slot. If stam users are not present, that would be a great replacement for mark though as it would help me out as well with greater sustain and the healer can slot another ability to help with the dungeon.
Edit: stupid phone auto correct fixEdited by Zach2322 on February 15, 2018 7:25PM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I use a Charged Ice Staff on my NB to get the chilled effect more often and immobilized mobs with WoE while helpng to proc my Crusher enchant on my SnB front bar too, so it should work out fine.
For Dungeons, I feel sacrificing the 2p monster isn't that big a deal over sacrificing 2 5p bonuses. Bloodspawn and Lord Warden are alright but the majority are meh so even when I can run a monster set, I usually opt for 1 Chokethorn+Shadowrend instead.
I personally hop back and forth between Tava's, Torag's, Akaviri Dragonguard, Ebon and Bahraha's Curse, depending on the group.
Tava's makes Blur a nice Ultimate builder and NB already excel at that, making Warhorn used more often but with poor DPS, its a wasted effort. Pretty much only use it with good players.
Torag's makes the best use with my Crusher enchant, helping my damage out as well as the group's and offers fairly useful stat bonuses to tanking in general so it's more pug proof than Tava's.
Ebon is more for those DPS that are good but go squish when someone looks at them funny. Whether it's paired with Tava's or Torag's is entirely on if the group is great or just so so.
Akaviri Dragonguard and Bahraha's Curse are more for self sustain when my group is beyond hope and I just give up helping them. Drop Warhorn for Veil of Blades and just slowly widdle down enemies while keeping myself alive above all else. Outside of vDLC dungeons, it's pug proof as you just can't be killed with the heal from Curse, NBs self healing capabilities and Veil.Argonian forever0 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭victoriana-blue wrote: »You're talking about Swarm Mother so it sounds like you know what you're getting into. I go 5/4/2 on my frost bar because I like the monster helm bonuses better than another 5pc, but that's up to you.
Don't forget about the ranged interrupt and elemental drain: I'm sure you've noticed, but dps don't like to interrupt because it lowers their numbers and having a ranged interrupt is great in places like Cradle of Shadows. Having drain available is useful because you don't have to count on a healer slotting it, and if the healer is running it your group can use it in multiple boss fights for extra regen.
Blockade + path keeps most melee trash on me without using taunts (as long as the dps let me pull first ;p ), so I only have to taunt the ranged mobs and the few escapees.
This is exactly how I have my DK tank set up. S&B front bar, frost staff back bar. Allows me to tank fights that are stationary using S&B, and ice staff for fights where there's a lot of movement, or I have to possibly range interrupt (Ibomez ICP). I do love the Swarm Mother's monster set. Lets me pull in ranged without having to use chains.I will admit running ele drain didn't cross my mind. However since I'm replacing the s&B taunt with mark from the assassination skill line since it applies the same debuffs, I wouldn't want both of them as it would be a waste of a slot.
I'd still keep the taunt on your S&B bar as you can only have mark on one mob at a time. You can cycle the S&B taunt and apply that debuff to everything.Edited by PlagueSD on February 15, 2018 11:03PM1 -
Zach2322✭✭✭
I'd still keep the taunt on your S&B bar as you can only have mark on one mob at a time. You can cycle the S&B taunt and apply that debuff to everything.
I was planning on running just the ice staff with either another staff on back bar or a resto. I haven't used mark in a very long time so knowing that now discourages me from using it.0 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mark has its uses. I believe others can see it, so you can use it to mark "focus" mobs (Overchargers in SO, for example) that need to die fast. I use it soloing for the self heal.
Reaping Mark:- Expose an enemy’s weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds.
- When a marked enemy dies, you heal yourself for 60% of your Max Health and you gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done by 25% for 5 seconds.
- You can only have one Reaping Mark active at a time.
- If the marked target dies, you heal for more and gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done.
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