Mechanical Acuity
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Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kinda depends on your critical chance without it. If you're already running 50-60% crit you won't get much out of the 5pc.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank1 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeThe set is beneficial for some setups (especially Nightblades) but not all, I made a video doing some tests here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCqjCCeTSU Edited by Alcast on February 14, 2018 4:08PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How does it fair in trials vs hundings or nmg?
In a (good) raid context Mechanical Acuity outperforms Hunding and Julianos respectively. That's because the 100% crit window gains massively from Major Force (horn) and Minor Force (trap) and benefits from all other raid damage buffs. So for a very well equipped and coordinated raid, I'd take Acuity any day of the week. However, if your raid group is a bit "meh" at rotating horns and keeping all the buffs up the situation changes.
Another thing to consider is that unlike Magicka builds, Stamina builds have access to more weapon damage buffs than simple Major Sorcery/Brutality. Dawnbreaker (5%), Fighters Guild passive (3%) and Medium armour passive (12%) offer a huge boost to base weapon damage aside from Major Brutality, which you just don't get on magicka builds.By the time you buff that weapon damage fully, the 5 piece Hunding bonus is more like 420 instead of 300. Which is quite significant boost to your damage that does not depend on anything else.
So in 4-man groups with less available buffs/debuffs, against the target dummy, or in bad raid groups, Hunding is better. But in a good raid context, Acuity.
As for NMG, it's a whole different discussion, they are not comparable as sets with Hundings or Acuity. NMG is a target debuff set, so don't compare it to a DPS set. For pure dps you're better off taking Spriggan Thorn than NMG for example, especially against a dummy.
NMG falls in a category with Sunderflame, Morag, Alkosh etc.EU | PC | AD6 -
jakeedmundson✭✭✭✭✭The set is beneficial for some setups (especially Nightblades) but not all, I made a video doing some tests here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCqjCCeTSU
Just comparing what i currently run to this video (which is really informative btw alcast, ty - its nice to see the differences between all the weapons)
The numbers are not much different. I always run sets like briarheart/automaton + VO + which ever monster set. I'm hitting 32-35k or so without using lover mundus or any penetration sets and with no extra pen buffs (major fracture, crusher, etc.)
I used to run hundings instead of brair/auto... numbers were about the same still there. So OP, probably don't need to worry too much about changing if you don't want to spend the extra mats.CP690
Lv 50 Dunmer DragonKnight Tank/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Sorcerer Dps
Lv 50 Breton Templar Healer/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Nightblade Dps
Lv 50 Redguard Sorcerer Dps
PS4 - DC
vSOHM - vAAHM - vHRC - vMA Flawless
My version of a Heavy Attack Sorc build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294724/magicka-sorc-heavy-attack-build-homestead-ready/p1?new=10 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The set is beneficial for some setups (especially Nightblades) but not all, I made a video doing some tests here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCqjCCeTSU
My only objection to this test is that Mechanical Acuity, as you say in the vid, is a good front bar set. Hunding's isn't, because you only get the weapon damage buff for ~70-75% of your DPS test. The rest of the time you're on your back bar. You're creating downtime for Hundings and therefore doing the test this way, with Hundings only front-barred, shows the set in slightly worse light.
Say you have a stam DK who's using SunderFlame for penetration, buffing himself and the raid with it, instead of TFS. Or simply because he has no TFS. Then that DK would wear 3 Sunder jewels and 2 Sunder DW weapons. Which leaves Hundings on the body available to both bars. And that's where it shines.
So, if you were to test these two set ups:
a) 5-Sunder, 5-Hunding, 2-p monster...against
b) 5-Sunder, 5-Acuity, 2-p monster
...then Hunding will outperform Acuity on the dummy. In fact in any dummy test where both sets are both-barred, Hundings will be higher DPS. Although we have to acknowledge this limitation of Hundings, that it needs to be both-barred to deliver its best. Thus adds it into competition with armour debuff sets (like NMG, Sunder, TFS, Spriggan etc.) for being the only both-barred set.
My point is, it depends on the rest of your setup as well your group. But yes, on solo deeps they are close. And on raid dps, Mechanical Acuity is arguably preferable.Edited by Maulkin on February 15, 2018 3:31PMEU | PC | AD1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.EU | PC | AD1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
Edited by Maulkin on February 16, 2018 3:53AMEU | PC | AD1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mechanical Acuity's more reliable in organized raids and whatnot, but if you're in a more disorganized raid or whatnot, Hunding's (stam) or Julianos (mag) will be more reliable."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP buildsEU | PC | AD0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pveEdited by JobooAGS on February 16, 2018 1:10PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.EU | PC | AD0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How does it fair in trials vs hundings or nmg?
In a (good) raid context Mechanical Acuity outperforms Hunding and Julianos respectively. That's because the 100% crit window gains massively from Major Force (horn) and Minor Force (trap) and benefits from all other raid damage buffs. So for a very well equipped and coordinated raid, I'd take Acuity any day of the week. However, if your raid group is a bit "meh" at rotating horns and keeping all the buffs up the situation changes.
Another thing to consider is that unlike Magicka builds, Stamina builds have access to more weapon damage buffs than simple Major Sorcery/Brutality. Dawnbreaker (5%), Fighters Guild passive (3%) and Medium armour passive (12%) offer a huge boost to base weapon damage aside from Major Brutality, which you just don't get on magicka builds.By the time you buff that weapon damage fully, the 5 piece Hunding bonus is more like 420 instead of 300. Which is quite significant boost to your damage that does not depend on anything else.
So in 4-man groups with less available buffs/debuffs, against the target dummy, or in bad raid groups, Hunding is better. But in a good raid context, Acuity.
As for NMG, it's a whole different discussion, they are not comparable as sets with Hundings or Acuity. NMG is a target debuff set, so don't compare it to a DPS set. For pure dps you're better off taking Spriggan Thorn than NMG for example, especially against a dummy.
NMG falls in a category with Sunderflame, Morag, Alkosh etc.
Acuity is better than Hunding's even on the target dummy. Which means that its basically better than Hunding's in any type of content, since the target dummy is the situation with the least raid buffs and debuffs.
https://prnt.sc/icey35
^ 46.3k (back in CwC) with an actual raid setup (Warrior Mundus, etc. etc.). Highest I've gotten with Hunding's was about 45.6k and that was with some insanely lucky crits. This 46k however was easily reproducable with Acuity.Edited by Izaki on February 16, 2018 1:53PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.Edited by JobooAGS on February 16, 2018 1:40PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.
Also, the shadow mundus can be buffed too to the point where crit damage on it out damages crit damage on the warrior significantly giving players a choice to go with swords with more damagr or go with daggers with more crit and therefore more damage on crits.0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Daggers might give a Nightblade around 3%+ more front-bar DPS with a crit rating that low, more with warhorn. But daggers of Mechanical Acuity are much less than that, less than a 1.5% DPS buff if you spend half the time in the front bar and try to squeeze all you can into the 5 second acuity buff.
Swords aren't what they appear to be, the % buff is additive to every other percent buff you have, making them less valuable than 2.5% each. When one-handed swords are combined with major slayer, minor slayer, minor berserk, 30 combined %points into mighty + thaumaturge and mighty + master at arms, they only give 1.6% more damage each.
With all those buffs applied, swords will start to outperform maces against a single target when its resistance is cut down to 7800, meaning you'll need more than Torug's crusher, major fracture and night mother's gaze.Edited by Bladerunner1 on February 16, 2018 2:48PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Daggers might give a Nightblade around 3%+ more front-bar DPS with a crit rating that low, more with warhorn. But daggers of Mechanical Acuity are much less than that, less than a 1.5% DPS buff if you spend half the time in the front bar and try to squeeze all you can into the 5 second acuity buff.
Swords aren't what they appear to be, the % buff is additive to every other percent buff you have, making them less valuable than 2.5% each. When one-handed swords are combined with major slayer, minor slayer, minor berserk, 30 combined %points into mighty + thaumaturge and mighty + master at arms, they only give 1.6% more damage each.
With all those buffs applied, swords will start to outperform maces against a single target when its resistance is cut down to 7800, meaning you'll need more than Torug's crusher, major fracture and night mother's gaze.
The best weapon combination that myself and Liko (a beast player on PC EU) have found was Axe and Dagger. We did a lot of tests on the 25mil dummy and it was really by far the best combo. And that's in a non-raid scenario.
So an Axe is basically mandatory with Acuity, since its literally free damage, that usually hits as hard as Rending Slashes. (1.7k self buffed DPS on a Stamblade on a 6mil and 25mil dummy)
So we are left with 4 weapon options for the other weapon:
- the Mace is useless in end game PvE content where bosses have basically 0 armor once all the debuffs have been applied.
- the Sword gives you roughly 1.7% extra damage done instead of the advertised 2.5%, so frankly, its just not worth it.
- the Axe gives you another 8% chance to proc the Twin Blade and Blunt bleed which is both a good thing and a bad thing. The good part is that it makes the bleed less dependant on RNG and it therefore becomes a consistant damage source. The bad thing is that you will be refreshing the bleed before the duration is over on classes that have a lot of melee damage (like Stamblade or Stamplar) which essentially means that you are wasting procs. In terms of numbers, the second Axe gives you about 300-500 extra DPS on the Twin Blade and Blunt bleed, which is a 25-35% increase on the damage of the bleed with just 1 Axe. So having a weapon giving you only 300 extra DPS isn't a good option at all.
- the Dagger gives you 5% crit which is wasted whilst the Acuity proc is up and running. However, the Acuity proc is only active 26-28% of the time which means that the Dagger still has some value. Now, we see the biggest benefit of the Dagger in raids, where your Acuity procs won't always line up with Major Force. Since in good groups Major Force has a relatively high uptime, the 5% crit outside of the Acuity proc becomes a very big damage increase. It also helps with limiting the "unlucky" parses where your Killer's Blade or your Assassin's Scourge only have like 40-50% crit chance (it doesn't completely eliminate the chances of getting an unlucky parse, but it definitely makes those rarer).
So yeah. Axe and Dagger.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade6 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.
Also, the shadow mundus can be buffed too to the point where crit damage on it out damages crit damage on the warrior significantly giving players a choice to go with swords with more damagr or go with daggers with more crit and therefore more damage on crits.
The Shadow mundus stone will NEVER deal more damage than the Warrior mundus stone even with 100% crit chance. I belive @Gilliamtherogue has done a test to prove this statement.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.
Also, the shadow mundus can be buffed too to the point where crit damage on it out damages crit damage on the warrior significantly giving players a choice to go with swords with more damagr or go with daggers with more crit and therefore more damage on crits.
The Shadow mundus stone will NEVER deal more damage than the Warrior mundus stone even with 100% crit chance. I belive @Gilliamtherogue has done a test to prove this statement.
I stated to buff the shadow mundus, nit that the shadow mundus already out damages warrior0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.
Also, the shadow mundus can be buffed too to the point where crit damage on it out damages crit damage on the warrior significantly giving players a choice to go with swords with more damagr or go with daggers with more crit and therefore more damage on crits.
The Shadow mundus stone will NEVER deal more damage than the Warrior mundus stone even with 100% crit chance. I belive @Gilliamtherogue has done a test to prove this statement.
I stated to buff the shadow mundus, nit that the shadow mundus already out damages warrior
Oh right my bad@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Daggers might give a Nightblade around 3%+ more front-bar DPS with a crit rating that low, more with warhorn. But daggers of Mechanical Acuity are much less than that, less than a 1.5% DPS buff if you spend half the time in the front bar and try to squeeze all you can into the 5 second acuity buff.
Swords aren't what they appear to be, the % buff is additive to every other percent buff you have, making them less valuable than 2.5% each. When one-handed swords are combined with major slayer, minor slayer, minor berserk, 30 combined %points into mighty + thaumaturge and mighty + master at arms, they only give 1.6% more damage each.
With all those buffs applied, swords will start to outperform maces against a single target when its resistance is cut down to 7800, meaning you'll need more than Torug's crusher, major fracture and night mother's gaze.
The best weapon combination that myself and Liko (a beast player on PC EU) have found was Axe and Dagger. We did a lot of tests on the 25mil dummy and it was really by far the best combo. And that's in a non-raid scenario.
So an Axe is basically mandatory with Acuity, since its literally free damage, that usually hits as hard as Rending Slashes. (1.7k self buffed DPS on a Stamblade on a 6mil and 25mil dummy)
So we are left with 4 weapon options for the other weapon:
- the Mace is useless in end game PvE content where bosses have basically 0 armor once all the debuffs have been applied.
- the Sword gives you roughly 1.7% extra damage done instead of the advertised 2.5%, so frankly, its just not worth it.
- the Axe gives you another 8% chance to proc the Twin Blade and Blunt bleed which is both a good thing and a bad thing. The good part is that it makes the bleed less dependant on RNG and it therefore becomes a consistant damage source. The bad thing is that you will be refreshing the bleed before the duration is over on classes that have a lot of melee damage (like Stamblade or Stamplar) which essentially means that you are wasting procs. In terms of numbers, the second Axe gives you about 300-500 extra DPS on the Twin Blade and Blunt bleed, which is a 25-35% increase on the damage of the bleed with just 1 Axe. So having a weapon giving you only 300 extra DPS isn't a good option at all.
- the Dagger gives you 5% crit which is wasted whilst the Acuity proc is up and running. However, the Acuity proc is only active 26-28% of the time which means that the Dagger still has some value. Now, we see the biggest benefit of the Dagger in raids, where your Acuity procs won't always line up with Major Force. Since in good groups Major Force has a relatively high uptime, the 5% crit outside of the Acuity proc becomes a very big damage increase. It also helps with limiting the "unlucky" parses where your Killer's Blade or your Assassin's Scourge only have like 40-50% crit chance (it doesn't completely eliminate the chances of getting an unlucky parse, but it definitely makes those rarer).
So yeah. Axe and Dagger.
I can totally see where you're coming from with the dagger, swords are just that terrible, and good point about the warhorn during off times. I might make myself a dagger next and shelf the sword. I've got a mace for four player stuff and always an axe for everything.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How does it fair in trials vs hundings or nmg?
In a (good) raid context Mechanical Acuity outperforms Hunding and Julianos respectively. That's because the 100% crit window gains massively from Major Force (horn) and Minor Force (trap) and benefits from all other raid damage buffs. So for a very well equipped and coordinated raid, I'd take Acuity any day of the week. However, if your raid group is a bit "meh" at rotating horns and keeping all the buffs up the situation changes.
Another thing to consider is that unlike Magicka builds, Stamina builds have access to more weapon damage buffs than simple Major Sorcery/Brutality. Dawnbreaker (5%), Fighters Guild passive (3%) and Medium armour passive (12%) offer a huge boost to base weapon damage aside from Major Brutality, which you just don't get on magicka builds.By the time you buff that weapon damage fully, the 5 piece Hunding bonus is more like 420 instead of 300. Which is quite significant boost to your damage that does not depend on anything else.
So in 4-man groups with less available buffs/debuffs, against the target dummy, or in bad raid groups, Hunding is better. But in a good raid context, Acuity.
As for NMG, it's a whole different discussion, they are not comparable as sets with Hundings or Acuity. NMG is a target debuff set, so don't compare it to a DPS set. For pure dps you're better off taking Spriggan Thorn than NMG for example, especially against a dummy.
NMG falls in a category with Sunderflame, Morag, Alkosh etc.
Acuity is better than Hunding's even on the target dummy. Which means that its basically better than Hunding's in any type of content, since the target dummy is the situation with the least raid buffs and debuffs.
https://prnt.sc/icey35
^ 46.3k (back in CwC) with an actual raid setup (Warrior Mundus, etc. etc.). Highest I've gotten with Hunding's was about 45.6k and that was with some insanely lucky crits. This 46k however was easily reproducable with Acuity.
I seem to get the best peak results with axe/axe on a solo parse, but axe/dagger is more consistent, especially in raid parses, and will be better for trash pulls.Edited by LiquidPony on March 31, 2018 5:09PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How does it fair in trials vs hundings or nmg?
In a (good) raid context Mechanical Acuity outperforms Hunding and Julianos respectively. That's because the 100% crit window gains massively from Major Force (horn) and Minor Force (trap) and benefits from all other raid damage buffs. So for a very well equipped and coordinated raid, I'd take Acuity any day of the week. However, if your raid group is a bit "meh" at rotating horns and keeping all the buffs up the situation changes.
Another thing to consider is that unlike Magicka builds, Stamina builds have access to more weapon damage buffs than simple Major Sorcery/Brutality. Dawnbreaker (5%), Fighters Guild passive (3%) and Medium armour passive (12%) offer a huge boost to base weapon damage aside from Major Brutality, which you just don't get on magicka builds.By the time you buff that weapon damage fully, the 5 piece Hunding bonus is more like 420 instead of 300. Which is quite significant boost to your damage that does not depend on anything else.
So in 4-man groups with less available buffs/debuffs, against the target dummy, or in bad raid groups, Hunding is better. But in a good raid context, Acuity.
As for NMG, it's a whole different discussion, they are not comparable as sets with Hundings or Acuity. NMG is a target debuff set, so don't compare it to a DPS set. For pure dps you're better off taking Spriggan Thorn than NMG for example, especially against a dummy.
NMG falls in a category with Sunderflame, Morag, Alkosh etc.
Acuity is better than Hunding's even on the target dummy. Which means that its basically better than Hunding's in any type of content, since the target dummy is the situation with the least raid buffs and debuffs.
https://prnt.sc/icey35
^ 46.3k (back in CwC) with an actual raid setup (Warrior Mundus, etc. etc.). Highest I've gotten with Hunding's was about 45.6k and that was with some insanely lucky crits. This 46k however was easily reproducable with Acuity.
Were you running Hundings on both bars during those tests?EU | PC | AD0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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Why should a stamina weapon buff Spell Pen?Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
But axes and maces look silly... lol. I just figured an extra 5% damage on top of 100% crit rate was better
No sadly, crit is still king. You can see in @Alcast's video that when he switches to swords, dps dips. Even with Acuity.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Anyone know what weapon combo and crir rate hits a good balance? I run dw dagger/sword for 42.9% crit
Crit is better for aoe cleave, since all your aoe hitting multiple targets have a higher crit chance. Axes are better for single target damage as the twin blade and blunt passive bleed is stronger than anything else really but it only procs off weapon attacks which is your light/heavy weave plus Rending Slashes. So it only procs on the mob you have tab targeted. Swords are the worst, so no one really uses them on trials.
Most people use one axe and one dagger to balance out single target damage with aoe.
Swords need a buff to bring them more on line with the other dw weapons.
Meh. Swords see a fair amount of use as is. They are BiS for PvP magicka melee builds like MageBlades or the occasional MagDen or MagPlar. Because the weapon crit and bleed are useless to magicka builds but the 5% damage increase is universal.
If there's a weapon that's not being used at all, it's the mace. Why try to penetrate people in PvP with mace when the axes proc OP bleeds that ignore resistances and are more effective against tanks? And why use it in PvE when a torug/alkosh tank with crusher enchant, a Sunderflame debuffer and 3000 penetration from CPs... will debuff a boss fully to the point where you don't even need sharpened weapons?
You dont see melee mag in trials anymore, they dont pull enough dps to warrent using over a stam toon
I didn’t talk about PvE. I explicitly said swords are BIS for melee magicka PvP builds
This thread is based on pve in case you havent noticed
Big edit: That could have come out better, what I meant to say, although off topic from the original responce is that mag melee could use a buff that would help them stay competitive, especially with all the complaints that magplar is little more than a buff and healbot and both melee magplar and magdk arent considered for endgame pve
Yeah but you can't decouple the usefulness of weapons from half the content of the game, mate. Regardless of the subject of this particular thread.
Daggers and Axes are BIS for PvE stam builds. Swords are BIS for PvP mag builds. Each has its use, so it's hard to argue that any of them needs a buff. If Swords are buffed to be on par with daggers for example, then none will use daggers because Swords will be more transferrable between PvP and PvE and different chars.
Like I said the only weapon that sees no use is maces. Strange that you don't go on about maces, but go on about swords instead.
Maces could use some justice too, they can be buffed to do both physical and spell pen, and have their pen percentages be calculated 1st before any pen debuffs.
I assume you're wanting double benefit of being able to use these on a DW mag or stam character, which seems a bit much.
The +SD from DW swords on mag was counterintuive and lazy design. This would simply expand on that further.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0
