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Dragon bones DLC - EXP "exploit" why are INNOCENT people getting banned, exactly?
-
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit2 -
The-Baconator✭✭✭✭The-Baconator wrote: »I really don't understand why everyone is getting all worked up about people exploiting absurd exp gains, intentionally or not. Why do I care if some random now has 3600 cp as opposed to 800? I get that a lot of people are still mad over ZOS botching serious exploit after serious exploit for years (surveys, CE, etc) but that doesn't mean they have to make up for it by instituting ridiculously harsh policies towards what is a fairly benign exploit. Take CP away from people who were obviously grinding for the exp but there's no good reason to start tossing out perma bans for this.
Because it breaks ToS, and you agreed not to exploit
And just because someone breaks the TOS once in any capacity, even if unknowingly, they should have their accounts taken away?First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
Potato Lord of Atrocity1 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.People have been waiting a long time for housing storage,and now they are being punished for trying to farm for it.That is at least the way I see it. If this was a month after patch my opinion would be much different,but you really have to consider this factor.Or do expect the all go buy them from the crown store since IC has become shut off?0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.
No, no it's not. Whether the intent was to gain lots of XP or not, the result was lots of XP. Yes, they should have immediately stopped farming until the bug was fixed. Imagine if every mob dropped 2 million gold instead. There is no excuse to keep farming gold under the flimsy pretense that you only wanted tel var stones and accidentally became a billionaire.
These are excuses guilty people try to push without any sound rationale to them. Luckily, the judge isn't falling for it and the bans are coming.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.People have been waiting a long time for housing storage,and now they are being punished for trying to farm for it.That is at least the way I see it. If this was a month after patch my opinion would be much different,but you really have to consider this factor.Or do expect the all go buy them from the crown store since IC has become shut off?
I don't care how they earn it in game, if you abuse a bug you are doing so on your own accord and will face the punishment that goes along with it if there is any0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.
If you're going to be a try hard at least capitalize the M in Marines.
Barring that, your analogy has absolutely no relevance to entrapment.
0331
06021 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The-Baconator wrote: »The-Baconator wrote: »I really don't understand why everyone is getting all worked up about people exploiting absurd exp gains, intentionally or not. Why do I care if some random now has 3600 cp as opposed to 800? I get that a lot of people are still mad over ZOS botching serious exploit after serious exploit for years (surveys, CE, etc) but that doesn't mean they have to make up for it by instituting ridiculously harsh policies towards what is a fairly benign exploit. Take CP away from people who were obviously grinding for the exp but there's no good reason to start tossing out perma bans for this.
Because it breaks ToS, and you agreed not to exploit
And just because someone breaks the TOS once in any capacity, even if unknowingly, they should have their accounts taken away?
If anyone has had any knowledge of how online games worked, they would have noticed xp gain from a bug would be way to much as close to cheating in a way so they should know right away when to walk out if they accidentally stumbled upon something of this magnitude.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.
If you're going to be a try hard at least capitalize the M in Marines.
Barring that, your analogy has absolutely no relevance to entrapment.
That would imply respect. No.
I'm not trying to apply relevance to entrapment because that would be buying into your statement that this is in fact entrapment. That's hog wash and inadmissible here, no one was tricked into farming millions of XP, they did it knowing the results of their actions as the CP gains streamed in after every kill. ZOS didn't set this up to try to make them ban themselves. They did it fully aware of the consequences their actions were having -- more CP at an alarmingly fast rate.3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is just basic practicality.
You pay for a service - Imperial City.
You expect and plan to utilize said service.
ZOS offers and encourages you use this service.
ZOS introduces what amounts to an infinite spewing slot machine for doing anything other than standing around AFK.
ZOS quotes TOS and EULA.
You get banned for utilizing said service because you cannot stop it from spewing EXP at you.
That is textbook entrapment.0331
06022 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.
No, no it's not. Whether the intent was to gain lots of XP or not, the result was lots of XP. Yes, they should have immediately stopped farming until the bug was fixed. Imagine if every mob dropped 2 million gold instead. There is no excuse to keep farming gold under the flimsy pretense that you only wanted tel var stones and accidentally became a billionaire.
These are excuses guilty people try to push without any sound rationale to them. Luckily, the judge isn't falling for it and the bans are coming.
This is kind of like a cop finding a drugs in a car with nobody claiming ownership.Yes they charge all with the possession, but do the drugs truly belong to everyone? It's just a dirty way to needlessly punish people.Not to mention zos has all the tools to adjust the numbers of experience gained to what should have been gained accordingly.Edited by MehrunesFlagon on February 13, 2018 3:22AM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
Well. Since you asked...
Code of Conduct: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.
Since its hard to argue that continuing to kill mobs for enormous amounts of exp is indeed exploiting and abusing a bug with the game system, any other questions?Edited by VaranisArano on February 13, 2018 3:25AM0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »This is just basic practicality.
You pay for a service - Imperial City.
You expect and plan to utilize said service.
ZOS offers and encourages you use this service.
ZOS introduces what amounts to an infinite spewing slot machine for doing anything other than standing around AFK.
ZOS quotes TOS and EULA.
You get banned for utilizing said service because you cannot stop it from spewing EXP at you.
That is textbook entrapment.
No. Entrapment implies ZOS set this up specifically for you to commit the crime. What did they really do? They had an error.
What you actually did was you found out that due to an error the government has been sending you disability benefits every month AFTER you closed your case. Instead of reporting the issue and rejecting the money, you continued to cash in on it month after month after month after month after month. There are plenty of real world cases where exploiters go to prison for abusing something they knew was too good to be true.2 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just caught myself posting a serious response about how people should reap the consequences of their actions.
Close call..
Here's some music, cheer up you psychopaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0 0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »monktoasty wrote: »
Well. Since you asked...
Code of Conduct: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.
Since its hard to argue that continuing to kill mobs for enormous amounts of exp is indeed exploiting and abusing a bug with the game system, any other questions?
Emphasis on intentionally.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.
No, no it's not. Whether the intent was to gain lots of XP or not, the result was lots of XP. Yes, they should have immediately stopped farming until the bug was fixed. Imagine if every mob dropped 2 million gold instead. There is no excuse to keep farming gold under the flimsy pretense that you only wanted tel var stones and accidentally became a billionaire.
These are excuses guilty people try to push without any sound rationale to them. Luckily, the judge isn't falling for it and the bans are coming.
This is kind of like a cop finding a drugs in a car with nobody claiming ownership.Yes they charge all with the possession, but do the drugs truly belong to everyone? It's just a dirty way to needlessly punish people.Not to mention zos has all the tools to adjust the numbers of experience gained to what should have been gained accordingly.
YOU WERE FARMING THOSE DRUGS OFF THE CORPSES OF MOBS IN IMPERIAL CITY!
The cops know EXACTLY who owns them. They have camera footage and fingerprints on the bags!1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.
If you're going to be a try hard at least capitalize the M in Marines.
Barring that, your analogy has absolutely no relevance to entrapment.
That would imply respect. No.
I'm not trying to apply relevance to entrapment because that would be buying into your statement that this is in fact entrapment. That's hog wash and inadmissible here, no one was tricked into farming millions of XP, they did it knowing the results of their actions as the CP gains streamed in after every kill. ZOS didn't set this up to try to make them ban themselves. They did it fully aware of the consequences their actions were having -- more CP at an alarmingly fast rate.
It has nothing to do with respect you miserably failing try hard. It's a proper noun and proper nouns get capitalized - even my poorly educated bama self learned that in third grade.
Entrapment has nothing to do with being tricked unless your vast experience with the word is as far as www.dictionary.com. If you aren't going to address my post then why are you responding? I can tell you why - upset try hard gonna be upset.0331
06020 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.
No, no it's not. Whether the intent was to gain lots of XP or not, the result was lots of XP. Yes, they should have immediately stopped farming until the bug was fixed. Imagine if every mob dropped 2 million gold instead. There is no excuse to keep farming gold under the flimsy pretense that you only wanted tel var stones and accidentally became a billionaire.
These are excuses guilty people try to push without any sound rationale to them. Luckily, the judge isn't falling for it and the bans are coming.
Ok then.Suppose you have a scenario where someone already has 1500 cp,and they are farming the tel var since they would rather do that than master writs or buy from the crown store.Now do you really think this person is farming experience?I certainly hope not.0 -
yttoks✭✭✭I don't know why anyone even cares. Someone skipped a bunch of useless grinding, how does that negatively affect me? It doesn't.
If they are going to roll back xp gains from IC today, then I want the XP from dolmens that also wasn't dropping and made that take so much longer. I understand some of the craglorn stuff was also adversely affected.
I vote for: problem fixed, let's all move on. You can't turn xp into gold, mats, etc., so no way for it to adversely affect anyone. Let's play! (I do want that XP, though. My new toon could be almost fully leveled after all that grinding).0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭[/quote]This is kind of like a cop finding a drugs in a car with nobody claiming ownership.Yes they charge all with the possession, but do the drugs truly belong to everyone? It's just a dirty way to needlessly punish people.Not to mention zos has all the tools to adjust the numbers of experience gained to what should have been gained accordingly.[/quote]
YOU WERE FARMING THOSE DRUGS OFF THE CORPSES OF MOBS IN IMPERIAL CITY!
The cops know EXACTLY who owns them. They have camera footage and fingerprints on the bags![/quote]
My point is exactly that.That in reality only a small portion of the were actually exploiting.At least intentionally.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »This is just basic practicality.
You pay for a service - Imperial City.
You expect and plan to utilize said service.
ZOS offers and encourages you use this service.
ZOS introduces what amounts to an infinite spewing slot machine for doing anything other than standing around AFK.
ZOS quotes TOS and EULA.
You get banned for utilizing said service because you cannot stop it from spewing EXP at you.
That is textbook entrapment.
No. Entrapment implies ZOS set this up specifically for you to commit the crime. What did they really do? They had an error.
What you actually did was you found out that due to an error the government has been sending you disability benefits every month AFTER you closed your case. Instead of reporting the issue and rejecting the money, you continued to cash in on it month after month after month after month after month. There are plenty of real world cases where exploiters go to prison for abusing something they knew was too good to be true.
Considering they are aware of the bug and still allow IC to offer the services they advertise despite knowing that partaking in any activity in the zone is conduct that, per their TOS, results in a ban is in fact entrapment.
In this analogy you get a very large bill, try hard. I know because I received 60% for the first 6 months after my initial appeal (for 60% disability) when I was initially awarded 40%. So I paid it back and received a backdated sum from my initial claim afterwards.
Try a different, more appropriate analogy.Edited by usmcjdking on February 13, 2018 3:38AM0331
06020 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »monktoasty wrote: »
Well. Since you asked...
Code of Conduct: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.
Since its hard to argue that continuing to kill mobs for enormous amounts of exp is indeed exploiting and abusing a bug with the game system, any other questions?
Emphasis on intentionally.
CPs rolling in constantly after every kill and you don't think awareness is evident. Okay.usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.
If you're going to be a try hard at least capitalize the M in Marines.
Barring that, your analogy has absolutely no relevance to entrapment.
That would imply respect. No.
I'm not trying to apply relevance to entrapment because that would be buying into your statement that this is in fact entrapment. That's hog wash and inadmissible here, no one was tricked into farming millions of XP, they did it knowing the results of their actions as the CP gains streamed in after every kill. ZOS didn't set this up to try to make them ban themselves. They did it fully aware of the consequences their actions were having -- more CP at an alarmingly fast rate.
It has nothing to do with respect you miserably failing try hard. It's a proper noun and proper nouns get capitalized - even my poorly educated bama self learned that in third grade.
Entrapment has nothing to do with being tricked unless your vast experience with the word is as far as www.dictionary.com. If you aren't going to address my post then why are you responding? I can tell you why - upset try hard gonna be upset.
No, it's an English word. English is a proper noun and gets the capital. I'm not referring to the organization but to the marines.
marine - noun
1. one of a class of naval troops serving both on shipboard and on land - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/marine
2. a member of a body of troops trained to serve on land or at sea - Google Dictionary
The word is actually older than the organization is.
Your post is trying to paint the situation as something that it isn't. I already addressed your post, I simply rejected you calling it entrapment with reasons given. If you're trying this hard to argue against it, I sense we won't be seeing you next week.
Also, you should really watch Entrapment. It's a great movie with Sean Connery.Edited by LordSemaj on February 13, 2018 3:40AM3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »monktoasty wrote: »
Well. Since you asked...
Code of Conduct: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.
Since its hard to argue that continuing to kill mobs for enormous amounts of exp is indeed exploiting and abusing a bug with the game system, any other questions?
Emphasis on intentionally.usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
Your name suggests you have some fascination with the marines so let's go with this example...
Friendly fire policy can be harsh even if a single person is killed but there's room for leniency. However, there's a difference between accidentally shooting your friend in battle and gunning down your entire team. One might be ruled to be a fluke with minimal consequences while the other is certain to get you a lifetime behind bars if not executed.
If you're going to be a try hard at least capitalize the M in Marines.
Barring that, your analogy has absolutely no relevance to entrapment.
That would imply respect. No.
I'm not trying to apply relevance to entrapment because that would be buying into your statement that this is in fact entrapment. That's hog wash and inadmissible here, no one was tricked into farming millions of XP, they did it knowing the results of their actions as the CP gains streamed in after every kill. ZOS didn't set this up to try to make them ban themselves. They did it fully aware of the consequences their actions were having -- more CP at an alarmingly fast rate.
It has nothing to do with respect you miserably failing try hard. It's a proper noun and proper nouns get capitalized - even my poorly educated bama self learned that in third grade.
Entrapment has nothing to do with being tricked unless your vast experience with the word is as far as www.dictionary.com. If you aren't going to address my post then why are you responding? I can tell you why - upset try hard gonna be upset.
No, it's an English word. English is a proper noun and gets the capital. I'm not referring to the organization but to the marines.
marine - noun
1. one of a class of naval troops serving both on shipboard and on land - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/marine
2. a member of a body of troops trained to serve on land or at sea - Google Dictionary
Your post is trying to paint the situation as something that it isn't. I already addressed your post, I simply rejected you calling it entrapment with reasons given. If you're trying this hard to argue against it, I sense we won't be seeing you next week.
Who do you favor to take home the most golds in the Olympics this year?
I need to know who to bet the house on.0331
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »monktoasty wrote: »
Well. Since you asked...
Code of Conduct: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.
Since its hard to argue that continuing to kill mobs for enormous amounts of exp is indeed exploiting and abusing a bug with the game system, any other questions?
Emphasis on intentionally.
Okay. I really doubt anyone's complaining about the players who noticed it, reported, and then stopped. Those players followed the Code of Conduct and the TOS.
You want to emphasize intentionally? How much more intentional can you get than not stopping once you've found a bug that allows you to exploit and abuse the game system?
You asked: "Where in the policy days immediately stop playing the game if bug is found?"
I answered with the Code of Conduct which I'll quote the pertinent part: "Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system.... Users will not intentionally use or share any bug..."
That seems pretty clear to me. Once you realize there's a bug that is exploiting or abusing the game system, you are expected to stop using that bug and to report it. To do otherwise is to intentionally continue to exploit and abuse that bug.
So if a player saw that they were receiving more exp than they should, didn't report it, and continued to kill mobs to gain exp, yeah, they broke the TOS and the Code of Conduct and did so intentionally. All players have to accept the TOS and COC in order to play.2 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.
Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!
You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp
And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.
Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?
Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit
I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.
I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.
It's not entrapment, it was a bug and people abused it which in tern is an exploit
It is a bug,but that is not the question.It is rather whether the extra cp was the motivation to continue.
No, no it's not. Whether the intent was to gain lots of XP or not, the result was lots of XP. Yes, they should have immediately stopped farming until the bug was fixed. Imagine if every mob dropped 2 million gold instead. There is no excuse to keep farming gold under the flimsy pretense that you only wanted tel var stones and accidentally became a billionaire.
These are excuses guilty people try to push without any sound rationale to them. Luckily, the judge isn't falling for it and the bans are coming.
Ok then.Suppose you have a scenario where someone already has 1500 cp,and they are farming the tel var since they would rather do that than master writs or buy from the crown store.Now do you really think this person is farming experience?I certainly hope not.
Again, it doesn't matter whether the person wants the experience or not. They're farming experience regardless.MehrunesFlagon wrote: »My point is exactly that.That in reality only a small portion of the were actually exploiting.At least intentionally.
No, anyone who was spamming mob kills was aware of what it was doing. There's no viable excuse or claim that someone can make that says they didn't notice the constant CP gains. They chose to ignore them and continue farming anyway.
They weren't aware of the bug at all. They shut down the servers as soon as it was confirmed that there was in fact a bug and fixed it immediately.usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This is just basic practicality.
You pay for a service - Imperial City.
You expect and plan to utilize said service.
ZOS offers and encourages you use this service.
ZOS introduces what amounts to an infinite spewing slot machine for doing anything other than standing around AFK.
ZOS quotes TOS and EULA.
You get banned for utilizing said service because you cannot stop it from spewing EXP at you.
That is textbook entrapment.
No. Entrapment implies ZOS set this up specifically for you to commit the crime. What did they really do? They had an error.
What you actually did was you found out that due to an error the government has been sending you disability benefits every month AFTER you closed your case. Instead of reporting the issue and rejecting the money, you continued to cash in on it month after month after month after month after month. There are plenty of real world cases where exploiters go to prison for abusing something they knew was too good to be true.
Considering they are aware of the bug and still allow IC to offer the services they advertise despite knowing that partaking in any activity in the zone is conduct that, per their TOS, results in a ban is in fact entrapment.
In this analogy you get a very large bill, try hard. I know because I received 60% for the first 6 months after my initial appeal (for 60% disability) when I was initially awarded 40%. So I paid it back and received a backdated sum from my initial claim afterwards.
Try a different, more appropriate analogy.
Also, you might want to read the example better, along with the legal standing on the matter. Failing to report and continuing to collect illegitimate earnings over an extended period of time, as the players farming high XP mobs did, will see you prosecuted federally as it is considered and tried as theft.Edited by LordSemaj on February 13, 2018 3:49AM0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭What if someone who already had far above the current cap farms tel var, and incidentally ends up with a couple hundred more cp?I'm not saying this from theory.I am well above cap,and if I went in there it would be for the sole purpose of farming tel vars.Now if it were a lower level/cp,or someone using it on several different low level toons I could agree with you, however unless hard evidence is found can we really prove one way or another?
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DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For those crying
Don't forget that it's not entrapment if you were predisposed to committing the crime. Don't believe me? Look it up.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »What if someone who already had far above the current cap farms tel var, and incidentally ends up with a couple hundred more cp?I'm not saying this from theory.I am well above cap,and if I went in there it would be for the sole purpose of farming tel vars.Now if it were a lower level/cp,or someone using it on several different low level toons I could agree with you, however unless hard evidence is found can we really prove one way or another?
What would we need hard evidence of? They gained a couple hundred more CP. They were exploiting bugged experience rates. It doesn't matter if they went in with the goal of farming tel var. Once they noticed the experience being bugged and giving them tons of CP, they had the choice to stop and report the bug or continuing farming anyway. They intentionally chose the latter option, twas no accident.
Feel free to go farm all the tel var you want now though.1 -
pattyLtd✭✭✭✭✭How idiotic to even have the nerve to treathen banning people for this.
ZoS should be ashamed of themselves, how on earth are you always able to break more then that you fix.
New DLC and talk of the day is about moar bugs as usual, LMFAO!English is not my native language, no grammar police please, tyvm0
This discussion has been closed.