Dragon bones DLC - EXP "exploit" why are INNOCENT people getting banned, exactly?

OrdoHermetica · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Whereas I think that temporarily avoiding a DLC area that you know to be glitched in a way obviously not intended by the developers is a prudent decision while waiting for the devs to fix it.

Nah. If I go out of my way to exploit the game for my own personal gain in a way that's clearly not intended, that's one me. If my playing the game completely normally results in crazy imbalanced rewards, that's on them. It's perfectly reasonable for them to remove those rewards after a fix is implemented, but playing the game normally should not be a ban-worthy offense.

temjiu · February 2018

First off, the OP's issue has been resolved. They haven't started banning yet based on the XP bug, so if the OP's friend in question has issues accessing his account, something else is going on and he needs to contact support. /end issue.

On the note of Bugs:
As stated many time, bugs happen. People who consciously take advantage of them after knowing the fact are exploiting. Simple as that. It doesn't matter what MMO it's in, I've seen it a multitude of times in many MMO's. Most ToS cover this, and it's a bannable offense. Simple as that.

ZOS has the ability to know what each player did, and they will research it. That's part of the reason bans haven't happened yet, they're working to determine those that innocently got caught in the situation, and those that purposefully continued on in spite of the issue. I'm sure we will get plenty of gripe threads in the next few days.

In spite of my stance in this, I do agree that a rollback would probably be the best solution. And specifically rollback for those caught in the issue. I don't' think it's fair to rollback someone who, say, garnered experience doing other things outside the problem area.

So they need to isolate the offenders, do their research, and simply rollback everyone involved. the capacity to rollback may not be as easy as a ban, but it would probably be a good alternative to having to isolate each individual and put detective work into determining if they really took advantage of the glitch or were just caught up in it.

And at no time is a person taking advantage of a bug OK. The excuse of "ZOS put it into the system" is the excuse of a guilty party. The Bank machine analogy fits to a T, sorry to say. just because exploiting a bug doesn't fit someone's moral compass in comparison to stealing money from a bank is irrelevant. the principle is the same, even if the severity is different. The punishment would and should fit the crime. In this case, a temporary ban on a virtual account on a game that has no real impact in life is comparable I would say. It's not like they're being hauled off to jail and sat in front of a judge.

klowdy1 · February 2018

If people gain a level after killing a single enemy, then continue to kill enemies to continue exploiting a bug, they are in the wrong. You would have noticed this bug fairly quickly, and to continue to benefit from it is an exploit.

On the other side of the coin, are you supposed to stop playing?

umagon · February 2018

https://youtu.be/5HNWhVXcjV8

zyk · February 2018

I think what's important is that no one profits from the bug. The reason that's important is that we want players to show restraint when bugs appear by avoiding exploitation. Because some players have successfully profited from bugs in the past, those and other players are eager to attempt to profit from every new bug.

So ZOS *needs* to put the work in work to rollback the exp of the affected players one way or another. They should have all the data necessary for a database admin to handle this.

What I am afraid ZOS is going to do is come down hard on a few extreme cases and let everyone else keep the exp gained; many would profit and the next bug would become even more tantalizing to exploit.

Unfadingsilence · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Not even that. From what hes told me, after the first pool of mobs hes killed, he saw that 1.9mil EXP, and logged out immediately, because knowing ZOS they will, and always will blame that on the player.

Funny thing is, i was in class and he PMd me a few minutes after this saying "Im going to get banned..." "...I just got 1.9mil exp from a few trash mobs..."

Wonder what else he has done to get this ban then seeing how they said they would treat it by a case by case

ItsNebula · February 2018

zyk wrote: »

I think what's important is that no one profits from the bug. The reason that's important is that we want players to show restraint when bugs appear by avoiding exploitation. Because some players have successfully profited from bugs in the past, those and other players are eager to attempt to profit from every new bug.

So ZOS *needs* to put the work in work to rollback the exp of the affected players one way or another. They should have all the data necessary for a database admin to handle this.

What I am afraid ZOS is going to do is come down hard on a few extreme cases and let everyone else keep the exp gained; many would profit and the next bug would become even more tantalizing to exploit.

you couldnt have said that more perfect

Pennylong · February 2018

I am beginning to think patch days are best avoided.

Morgul667 · February 2018

ZOS seems to blame people for using bug they introduce and yet they let bot/gold farmers/MIAT addon going on forever. Ironic.

Simple solution here, rollback accounts who got extra XP. No need to ban people for your mistake.

Danteanz · February 2018

if this is true, your friend must be banned. including you !

xaraan · February 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

Lol I love the fact that people SERIOUSLY defend ZOS when they made this issue without properly testing their code. I don't have this DLC yet as I've transferred to console a while back but damn this is funny.

If you release content that is broken i.e. seeing large abnormalities during live server activities, then it is YOUR responsibility to bring down those servers for Emergency maintenance. I don't get it every other game similar to this knows the concept of Emergency maintenance and this dates back to Runescape or even PSU... heck PSO2 was released similarly close to ESO and they do the same damn thing when things aren't correctly going.

Does not excuse someone using said released bugs to exploit something, sorry.

Passifest · February 2018

Lmao if they ban people for what amounts to killing mobs in a specific zone... It's not on the same level as other exploits if you insist on calling this one. Revert the xp, apologize for such a massive screw-up and lets all move on.

Jarryzzt · February 2018

Can ZOS actually roll back accounts a few hours?

Yes, I realize that in principle account "states" have to be backed up in some fashion on a regular basis - I mean, what happens if the data centre gets flooded or some such - but...

...first, I doubt they can just roll back a single field in the database. Even XP by itself includes general XP, skill line XP, individual skill/morph XP...that already sounds more complex. In theory, yes, I can script a query to change just one field in a database table, but I doubt it is quite as simple for ESO. And if you do a full rollback, you add fields like crafting research, quest progression, inventory, daily completion flags...life becomes not-fun very quickly.

But more importantly, irrespective of the type of rollback theoretically feasible, have they ever actually tried? Full or partial rollback by a few hours (assuming that's the interval - if they back things up once a day, say, then things get messier) for some unspecified number of characters (potentially all of them if they cannot select specific accounts)...it's one thing to have a plan on a piece of paper, doing it is something else entirely. Perhaps I speak from having seen too many disaster recovery plans not go off as planned (ha!), but still.

In other words, I would be very hesitant to suggest a rollback as a solution. A few (dozen) bans are what we are likely going to get, which isn't exactly going to stop the downtrodden masses the next time ZOS rolls out a buggy release...

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Anytime you or anyone else knowing continues to take advantage of something that isn’t normal or moreso, obviously arbnormal, there’s a chance you could be banned.

It’s really not up for discussion if you read our agreements.

ItsNebula · February 2018

Jarryzzt wrote: »

Can ZOS actually roll back accounts a few hours?

Yes, I realize that in principle account "states" have to be backed up in some fashion on a regular basis - I mean, what happens if the data centre gets flooded or some such - but...

...first, I doubt they can just roll back a single field in the database. Even XP by itself includes general XP, skill line XP, individual skill/morph XP...that already sounds more complex. In theory, yes, I can script a query to change just one field in a database table, but I doubt it is quite as simple for ESO. And if you do a full rollback, you add fields like crafting research, quest progression, inventory, daily completion flags...life becomes not-fun very quickly.

But more importantly, irrespective of the type of rollback theoretically feasible, have they ever actually tried? Full or partial rollback by a few hours (assuming that's the interval - if they back things up once a day, say, then things get messier) for some unspecified number of characters (potentially all of them if they cannot select specific accounts)...it's one thing to have a plan on a piece of paper, doing it is something else entirely. Perhaps I speak from having seen too many disaster recovery plans not go off as planned (ha!), but still.

In other words, I would be very hesitant to suggest a rollback as a solution. A few (dozen) bans are what we are likely going to get, which isn't exactly going to stop the downtrodden masses the next time ZOS rolls out a buggy release...

Its not hard, if every other MMO company ever that created a game with a semi big to big title (Terra, WoW, SWTOR, GW2 etc) can do it.. ZOS.. well you would think they can do it.. but apparently not.

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

Looks like ZOS is at it again. Broken and blame it on players. Why not just roll the game back?

visionality · February 2018

If your friend was truly banned today it was for something different.

- ZOS never instantly bans, it takes several days, usually weeks until they ban ppl (only exception perma-banned ppl who come back on a new account)
- They posted themselves on the forums that they will considerate each case of todadys XP exploit IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS - which means insta-bans wont happen.

Apart from that, I agree: Instad of banning ppl ZOS should just roll back. It's their programming mistake that caused the 1,9mio-XP-per-mob-rain in IC, and the lure of extremely fast XP/CP is just a bit too much of a temptation for most players. Take them away again and all will be fine.

Added: Ah, one second too slow.

MehrunesFlagon · February 2018

All this seems to me is an unfortunate byproduct of people grinding tel var. Do expect people to stop playing a certain part of the game entirely just because there is a known exploit you can't really avoid?

LordSemaj · February 2018

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

All this seems to me is an unfortunate byproduct of people grinding tel var. Do expect people to stop playing a certain part of the game entirely just because there is a known exploit you can't really avoid?

usmcjdking · February 2018

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

usmcjdking · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill any NPC. That is the very core of the game.

Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.

Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?

Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit

LordSemaj · February 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill any NPC. That is the very core of the game.

Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?

Doing it once isn't. Like finding a quest that you accidentally can turn in a second time for another chunk of XP. But if you were to sit there for three hours turning in that quest a thousand times, you're exploiting. Traveling to a zone and killing an NPC is an accident. Spending three hours farming NPCs for 1.9mil per kill isn't. ZOS will be the one to determine what does or does not count.

The-Baconator · February 2018

I really don't understand why everyone is getting all worked up about people exploiting absurd exp gains, intentionally or not. Why do I care if some random now has 3600 cp as opposed to 800? I get that a lot of people are still mad over ZOS botching serious exploit after serious exploit for years (surveys, CE, etc) but that doesn't mean they have to make up for it by instituting ridiculously harsh policies towards what is a fairly benign exploit. Take CP away from people who were obviously grinding for the exp but there's no good reason to start tossing out perma bans for this.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

The-Baconator wrote: »

I really don't understand why everyone is getting all worked up about people exploiting absurd exp gains, intentionally or not. Why do I care if some random now has 3600 cp as opposed to 800? I get that a lot of people are still mad over ZOS botching serious exploit after serious exploit for years (surveys, CE, etc) but that doesn't mean they have to make up for it by instituting ridiculously harsh policies towards what is a fairly benign exploit. Take CP away from people who were obviously grinding for the exp but there's no good reason to start tossing out perma bans for this.

Because it breaks ToS, and you agreed not to exploit

usmcjdking · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill an NPC.

Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?

Because it gave you 1 1/2 cp per kill and any right minded person would know that wasn't legit

I'm not disagreeing that it's broken and that it is infact an exploit.

I'm saying banning players for this is blatant entrapment.

SirDopey · February 2018

Let's be realistic. On a good day there is maybe 10 players in IC at any given point when there is no event on? New DLC, and instead of checking that out you have scores of people rushing to IC???

Noooooo, those players totally weren't exploiting it.....

DoctorESO · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Not even that. From what hes told me, after the first pool of mobs hes killed, he saw that 1.9mil EXP, and logged out immediately, because knowing ZOS they will, and always will blame that on the player.

Funny thing is, i was in class and he PMd me a few minutes after this saying "Im going to get banned..." "...I just got 1.9mil exp from a few trash mobs..."

Something tells me that there's more the story...

MehrunesFlagon · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This isn't even exploitative behavior lol.

Go to IC, kill a mob...get banned? GOTTA BE A FIRM, HARD LINE!

You haven't been reading then have you, missed out on the part where each mob net you 2m xp

And? The only thing you have to do to 'exploit' is travel to a zone and kill any NPC. That is the very core of the game.

Broken as that is how does that classify as exploitative behavior?

Doing it once isn't. Like finding a quest that you accidentally can turn in a second time for another chunk of XP. But if you were to sit there for three hours turning in that quest a thousand times, you're exploiting. Traveling to a zone and killing an NPC is an accident. Spending three hours farming NPCs for 1.9mil per kill isn't. ZOS will be the one to determine what does or does not count.

Considering tel var is one of the sources of the new storage crates.I find it highly unlikely that the people that stayed and continued to farm,did so with the intent of getting ungodly amounts of cp. Also it is a far better source for newer players since writs require you to know alot of motifs,which they obviously not have. So do expect people to not try to grind for tel var just because of this.It is going to happen.