Mag Sorcerers Need a Buff (ZOS Please READ)

Dutchessx · February 2018

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff, our shields have been nerfed into the ground by being cut in half in pvp and the time limited to 6 seconds and Shield Breaker makes it to where you get hit for more with Shields, with one hit my shields are gone and I have to reapply them. This problem is also compounded by damage health glyphs and poisons. Dark Conversion has never been reliable as a heal because it is interruptible or waste an ultimate to save my life. Streak has had the cost increased and people can travel further than we can using crit rush or similar skill so we can't get away or reposition ourselves in the battle field. Crystal frags have been nerfed by taking the stun & knock back down and Crystal Blast is worthless because it is interruptible. I have to wear light armor to be affective but in doing so I can't survive hardly any focus at all. And, now you guys are giving interrupt a cool down, so crushing shock is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

Aedaryl · February 2018

Sorc need buff yeah.

BUT

Having a block of text isn't a good way to ask a buff.

Listing the lis of nerfst is stupid, because every classes got changed.

You need to make a thread to explain how sorcerer is in the actual meta, explain what are the problems and proove it, then find solutions and propose it.

Let's not being dk and crying everywhere wothout saying something constructive.

I can give you some way to explore : sorc is the hardest class to sustain when you are facing stamina builds. Shield stacking is boring and not as effective as blockling. Sorc is limited with set choices because staves are 1 piece of set...

Beardimus · February 2018

This is going to be a Salt mine sadly I think! But good luck to you. Popcorn on order!

I main a Sorc too, and they aren't in a great place. Burst has really taken a kicking and a lot of top players have moved away from them on my platform / region. however this pace is a TOUGH forum when it comes to MagSorcs

I think you are optimistic asking for a Ward buff. I think if they changed ward length to 6.1 seconds even the Internet would literally explode. This forum wants to nerf sorc, ZOS could remove Sorcs from the game yet someone would start a salty post about a streaking high burst mega ward warrior that traveled forward in time from 2015 and killed them.

Dark Conversion will be better post update 17, something to look forward to.

Loss of stun from Frag was very uncool.

halfing of Overload was very uncool.

In fact the additional nerfs to DW have directly impacted me as a MagSorc, I guffaw when people say Sorc don't get nerfs as I've had one every patch for a while now - years.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2018

Dutchessx wrote: »

Dark Conversion has never been reliable as a heal because it is interruptible or waste an ultimate to save my life. Crystal Blast is worthless because it is interruptible.

Interrupt changes coming next week will help here...though Crystal Blast will probably still be useless.

aeowulf · February 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

I can give you some way to explore : sorc is the hardest class to sustain when you are facing stamina builds. Shield stacking is boring and not as effective as blockling. Sorc is limited with set choices because staves are 1 piece of set...

Stamplar are WAY worse, and that's coming from someone who doesn't play one! In 1v1 they get resources back from your corpse, ie when the don't need it.

OP - The comparison should be against all class/role combinations. You should be asking for buffs for classes you don't see in group finder, they need it way more than a class that is <relatively> common there

Minalan · February 2018

The class is hopelessly broken since they took the stun off of crystal fragments.

We are asking for a few small, incremental buffs. Tiny things that could add up quickly.

More damage on frags - we have two damage skills that aren’t an execute or an ultimate. Fine, we can do without the stun, but please make crystal fragments do 20% more damage on a proc again.

Lower the cost penalty slightly on streak. I don’t see gap closers or mist form costing this much. If you lower the stacking cost penalty by just 5-10%, we will notice.

Make streak range just one meter further. Gap closers are longer than streak, cost far less to use over and over, and they snare. Just one meter or so will help with our mobility issues.

Lower the cost on shields because sustain is killing us. Seriously, unlike stamina classes you never ever see a Sorc with 5000-6000 spell damage. We have to stack far too much sustain to move and keep shields up. Lower the cost on hardened ward slightly. Even 10% would help.

We constantly get ignored by the devs. Most of us are getting tired of it. There are other games to spend money on, and my friends are leaving.

Beardimus · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

The class is hopelessly broken since they took the stun off of crystal fragments.

We are asking for a few small, incremental buffs. Tiny things that could add up quickly.

More damage on frags - we have two damage skills that aren’t an execute or an ultimate. Fine, we can do without the stun, but please make crystal fragments do 20% more damage on a proc again.

Lower the cost penalty slightly on streak. I don’t see gap closers or mist form costing this much. If you lower the stacking cost penalty by just 5-10%, we will notice.

Make streak range just one meter further. Gap closers are longer than streak, cost far less to use over and over, and they snare. Just one meter or so will help with our mobility issues.

Lower the cost on shields because sustain is killing us. Seriously, unlike stamina classes you never ever see a Sorc with 5000-6000 spell damage. We have to stack far too much sustain to move and keep shields up. Lower the cost on hardened ward slightly. Even 10% would help.

We constantly get ignored by the devs. Most of us are getting tired of it. There are other games to spend money on, and my friends are leaving.

Great ideas there as ever mate.

Joy_Division · February 2018

Both Crystal Frags nerfs were unwarranted, unnecessary, and done because ZoS caved into all the stupid and ignorant nerf sorc threads posted by people who are far better at whining than playing.

AAbrigo · February 2018

Are we just gonna ignore the fact that magsorcs were OP until they nerfed crystal frag?

NyassaV · February 2018

Sorcs need a buff, but not the one you suggest. Give Frags it's damage back

Minalan · February 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Both Crystal Frags nerfs were unwarranted, unnecessary, and done because ZoS caved into all the stupid and ignorant nerf sorc threads posted by people who are far better at whining than playing.

And this is why we all

you so much Joy. But people are still posting Sorc whine threads. Like, crying about destructive touch, or overload. They’re just sneakier about it.

Hopefully they’ll fix Templars too after gutting your class. I have no idea how you guys keep going after the heal nerfs, losing CC on spear shards, radiant nerf, etc etc.

NyassaV · February 2018

The CC on frags was the issue, not the damage. More proof Wrobel doesn't play the game

lynog85 · February 2018

Sorc needs a buff but not because of most of the things you posted. Youre just a bad sorc.

Dracane · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Both Crystal Frags nerfs were unwarranted, unnecessary, and done because ZoS caved into all the stupid and ignorant nerf sorc threads posted by people who are far better at whining than playing.

And this is why we all you so much Joy. But people are still posting Sorc whine threads. Like, crying about destructive touch, or overload. They’re just sneakier about it.

Hopefully they’ll fix Templars too after gutting your class. I have no idea how you guys keep going after the heal nerfs, losing CC on spear shards, radiant nerf, etc etc.

Because they still have cleansing ritual. You need nothing else when you have that.

King_Thelon · February 2018

Stars are only visible in darkness.

olsborg · February 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Both Crystal Frags nerfs were unwarranted, unnecessary, and done because ZoS caved into all the stupid and ignorant nerf sorc threads posted by people who are far better at whining than playing.

Agreed. Shieldstack needs to go away tho, and shieldbreaker set needs to deal dmg to the shield instead of under it. Atronach ultimate needs to be buffed, not "buffed" as it is on U17.

gibous · February 2018

olsborg wrote: »

... shieldbreaker set needs to deal dmg to the shield instead of under it.

They really did name that set incorrectly as it does not enhance breaking shields and just bypasses them. If the 5pc was something like "deal 10% more dmg to target's with a damage shield," then that would be "shieldbreaker."

Didgerion · February 2018

Dutchessx wrote: »

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff, our shields have been nerfed into the ground by being cut in half in pvp and the time limited to 6 seconds and Shield Breaker makes it to where you get hit for more with Shields, with one hit my shields are gone and I have to reapply them. This problem is also compounded by damage health glyphs and poisons. Dark Conversion has never been reliable as a heal because it is interruptible or waste an ultimate to save my life. Streak has had the cost increased and people can travel further than we can using crit rush or similar skill so we can't get away or reposition ourselves in the battle field. Crystal frags have been nerfed by taking the stun & knock back down and Crystal Blast is worthless because it is interruptible. I have to wear light armor to be affective but in doing so I can't survive hardly any focus at all. And, now you guys are giving interrupt a cool down, so crushing shock is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

I don't think mag sorcs need a buff.
They underperfom in Cirodfiil but for different reasons:
1. Stamina builds are way too mobile.
2. New High mitigation medium builds are way too efficient.
3. Health increase of combat spirit is badly balanced in the current high resistance - high burst meta.

I think that stamina builds need to be nerfed a bit or magica builds need to be buffed a bit.
For example I cannot find answers to the following:
1. Why Medium Armor(MA) can cheap-rolldodge and Light Armor(LA) cannot? - roll-dodge is a powerful tool to mitigate damage and LA needs it as much as MA does. Also it is the only way to break roots (not quite true I know but very close).
3. Why MA has a running speed buff and LA not?
4. Why there are no affordable magica skills to remove snares - and no magica discount on skills after breaking free?

All this adds up and as result magica builds are gimped in PVP.

bardx86 · February 2018

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

Calboy · February 2018

Am I the only one that thinks mag sorc in pvp is fine. I have an insane time every time trying to kill those ***.

RebornV3x · February 2018

Mag sorc for PVE is fine but PVP all I want is
1.At least Hardened Ward to be 10s since its either all defence or offensive right now 6s isn't enough time to do anything especially on console.
2. Give back Crystal frag stun or at the very least make the frags fly faster literally anyone can dodge it C frags in there sleep
3. If they don't buff ward up time maybe give mines and rune a dmg buff so sorc can better defend themselves
4. Also can we get a magical class spammable attack similar to patch 2.2 Trapping Webs.

Its not much but these small changes would go a long way sorc is bad right now if not almost unplayable in PvP

BaylorCorvette · February 2018

With my experience they're pretty legit. Lots of skill involved, more than most classes but when done right they're nasty.

Speaking from PvP perspective only.

Didgerion · February 2018

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

Minalan · February 2018

L

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

That combo only works if the other guy stands there and takes it. Most of them don’t. I can do a similar three or four move instant death rotation with a Stamina nightblade, but most people block, dodge, and heal.

I don’t think hardened ward duration needs a buff. A shield under pressure won’t last six seconds regardless, more like two or three. If that’s a huge issue for anyone, there’s even a set that will increase the duration by a second or two next patch. What needs to change is the cost of it, it’s a tad too high for a six second shield.

CyrusArya · February 2018

While I agree that Sorc isn't what it used to be (read: Not top tier but not weak either), I must say there is some irony here in reading how dark deal is unreliable cus its interruptible, but how the changes to interrupt (a huge buff to dark deal) is somehow also a nerf to sorcs.

On to the point tho, the issue with sorcs is that the removal of the stun from frags was a mis step. Class was just fine last patch. As it stands, the core problem is that sorcs defensively are pretty solid and can stall out most fights. But likewise, they get stalled out and struggle to kill a wide cross section of builds. Just not fun to play a class that has such low lethality vs so many specs.

NyassaV · February 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I don't think mag sorcs need a buff.
They underperfom in Cirodfiil (yes, not Cyrodiil) but for different reasons:
1. We have streak and can kite limitlessly unlike Nightblade because shade doesn't work
2. New High mitigation medium builds are way too efficient.
3. Health increase of combat spirit is badly balanced in the current high resistance - high burst meta.

I think that stamina builds need to be nerfed a bit or magica builds need to be buffed a bit.
For example I cannot find answers to the following:
1. Why Medium Armor(MA) can cheap-rolldodge and Light Armor(LA) cannot? - roll-dodge is a powerful tool to mitigate damage and LA needs it as much as MA does. Also it is the only way to break roots (not quite true I know but very close).
I agree in some capacity, Medium should have cheap roll, light armor almost as cheap, heavy has increased cost by a mall yet fair margin. The difference is that medium armor should have the blade cloak effect attached to medium passives and give a temporary mitigation buff after successfully dodging an attack. Remove Major/Minor evasion too and make shuffle still remove snares but have a 30% reduced cost

4. Why MA has a running speed buff and LA not? Because lightweight robes aren't fitted as well
5. Why there are no affordable magica skills to remove snares - and no magica discount on skills after breaking free?

All this adds up and as result magica builds are gimped in PVP.

You make a lot of very good and very bad points here... Let me try and edit

Minalan · February 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

While I agree that Sorc isn't what it used to be (read: Not top tier but not weak either), I must say there is some irony here in reading how dark deal is unreliable cus its interruptible, but how the changes to interrupt (a huge buff to dark deal) is somehow also a nerf to sorcs.

On to the point tho, the issue with sorcs is that the removal of the stun from frags was a mis step. Class was just fine last patch. As it stands, the core problem is that sorcs defensively are pretty solid and can stall out most fights. But likewise, they get stalled out and struggle to kill a wide cross section of builds. Just not fun to play a class that has such low lethality vs so many specs.

When did you last run your Sorc? I don’t think I’ve seen it out since we were both team-farming amberplasm back in the day.

ak_pvp · February 2018

Sorcs need a revamp, not just random buffs.

Shield stack meta was op, and combined with decent burst and decent mobility Sorcs were fotm for a good while.

Instead of nerfing shields and buffing the rest of the class, they threw inane nerfs at pets, (OK, at one point they were super strong, familiar doing 10k dps) overload and frags. (being telegraphed)

This made the class play so 1D and samey. This was also in part caused by the sustain changes making it costly to use the class to the fullest, and things like overload and DW getting nerfed so that kind of build isn't really as viable. Now the "main parts" of the class are a bit eh, streak is costly but really only spammed to get away. The class is really just clunky reach spam.

Dutchessx · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

L

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

That combo only works if the other guy stands there and takes it. Most of them don’t. I can do a similar three or four move instant death rotation with a Stamina nightblade, but most people block, dodge, and heal.

I don’t think hardened ward duration needs a buff. A shield under pressure won’t last six seconds regardless, more like two or three. If that’s a huge issue for anyone, there’s even a set that will increase the duration by a second or two next patch. What needs to change is the cost of it, it’s a tad too high for a six second shield.

I agree that the cost is to high for a 6 second shield. I also agree with the CC such as flame wheel is blocked or dodged by most people unless you catch off guard or they just stand there & wait. I also agree that the streak penalty is too high. I understand how sorc from the original version did need some balancing in regards to other classes however, sorc is a fair cry from what it was & needs to be adjusted in a positive sense. My suggestions would include:
* give us a streak to match other gap closers
* reduce the cost of the streak penalty
* fix shields by either: Reducing the cost, making it a little larger (which could be done by increasing it with CP but those of us who play also in no cp wouldn't benefit). IMO I think shields should have been reduced to 10secs not to 6 but under pressure @Minalan is correct about them not even lasting 6, 20 seconds was too much. I actually prefer mixture of reduce cost and making it a little larger.

Vahrokh · February 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

This simply does not exist. It's like when they advertise a car doing 20km with 1 liter and then you check it out and it does 15km/l tops.

I've been in Cyro until 5 minutes ago. Out of 2 hours only 5-6 of my frags hit somebody. ALL the others got dodged or reflected.

KingYogi415 · February 2018

Sorcs need frags to stun again.

Shield nerf was fine.