ZOS, please detox this game a little bit. Show other people's CP up to a maximum of 160!

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Just remove it....cause they said they would remove VR but didn’t. They made it CP

code65536 · February 2018

weg0 wrote: »

I would suggest, however, further limiting the random vet dungeons lower cp players can auto-queue into. No-one below cp160 should be rando-pugging RoM, ICP, CoS, or dungeons where low dps will dramatically impact chance for success/ completion time.

@weg0 That was already changed, and now you must have CP160 to queue for vet DLC or vet storyline-II dungeons (or level 45 for the non-vet versions of those).

VaranisArano · February 2018

Pwnyridah wrote: »

This is a terrible idea. To detox, remove freeloaders by putting higher cp caps on tougher content. Put the time in and earn that cp!

They sort of did? However, the toughest groupfinder content, the Vet DLC dungeons, Fungal Grotto II and Crypt of Hearts II only require 160 CP.

I assume that most players in the habit of kicking low CP players from their Vet dungeons think that those dungeons should have a harder cap than that.

Meld777 · February 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Some weeks ago, I got into a vCoS on my tertiary account that had about 250CP.

I was kicked the instant the group was formed. Didn't bother waiting for the first trash pull to see if I was competent. Didn't get a chance to look at my character and see that she had a vMA staff and the title for vFalkreath HM. Didn't have a chance for me to say, "I've done vCoS literally over a hundred times." Just got kicked unceremoniously, even though I probably would've done better than most of the CP-capped DPS you'd find in group finder.

Of course, an experienced player on an alt account is not a common thing, and of course most low-CP players are pretty inexperienced and bad. But I will never vote for a kick until at least after the first few trash pulls so I can see if they look like they know what they're doing or if they're one of those people spamming light attacks. And if they are really bad, then sure, I'm okay with kicking them, even if they are CP-capped.

But a lot of people don't give you that kind of courtesy. I got queued into a vWGT on a CP-capped account, and the group had a low-CP DPS. Before we even went up the ladder, someone in the group was trying to vote-kick them off. I vetoed every vote, and the idiot would just start another vote. Did they ever get tired of clicking Vote to Kick over and over and over, only for the vote to instantly fail each time? Right before the first boss, I got tired of vetoing every vote, and I said to the group that whoever is initiating the vote should stop wasting their time because the low-CP DPS looked like s/he was competent and was using what looked like an okay rotation of skills and I will not vote to kick someone just because they're low CP. The healer at that point ragequit--apparently they were the *** doing the nonstop votes. We picked up a replacement healer who was also low CP, and we cleared the vWGT. Was it rough in certain places? Sure. But how do you expect people to learn if you don't give them the chance to?

So yes, I fully support hiding the CP past 160. That was the way it used to be before the VR removal. And what it'll do is force people to actually look at the things that matter before kicking.

In short: I'm not against kicking players, per se. And you can still kick players if the display was limited to 160. But you'd be forced to either look at how they do on the initial trash or ask them if they are familiar with the dungeon. You'd be forced to kick someone based on merit instead of just a dumb number by their name. Apparently, this is too radical of an idea for most of the people in this thread.

@code65536 Amazing post. Pretty much a veteran version of my initial one

As a passionate pugger, I encounter your vWGT experience on an almost daily basis. Good low CP players get votekicked by high CP players, who ragequit when the vote doesn't go through. Those that stay, usually turn out to be extremely bad. Mostly healers who only spam Mutagen and wear completely random gear, or Tanks who constantly lose aggro. Many of these max CP kickers don't know any mechanics, indicating they just freshly left Skyreach and have never run any dungeons, and now believe their high CP will carry their skillless asses, while kicking much more competent low CP players with experience and decent builds.

Thealteregoroman · February 2018

Me right now reading the back and forth on this post...

Runefang · February 2018

Honestly if you're doing a pug you should save yourself time by just starting with:
* "OMG your DPS is awful! Stop just light attacking..."
* "You're meant to get out of the red you nong!"
* Initiate kick of the lowest CP member
* If kick fails then you drop group after dropping some expletives
* If kick succeeds repeat from the beginning once you have a new member

D0PAMINE · February 2018

I always go out of my way to teach mechanics and even carry. Not all of us high level players are kick happy. I've done vCoS in a PUG with 2 under CP100's.

Iccotak · February 2018

IN the lastest Dev update they clearly state that they create content for certain CP levels.
The new Dragon Bones DLC for example on vet is more geared towards CP 300.
Hard mode boss though is for the top ranks.

In my experience low CP numbers is a clear indicator of whether or not you belong in certain high level dungeons.
1/10 times have I actually had a player around 160 that could keep up in Ruins of Mazzatun for example. But they were still the weakest link.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Coming soon: Kick everyone lower than 720 CP.

It gets worse over time, not better. Either they give us proper tools to examine players by or people get excluded for arbitrary reasons.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

You really want to detox this game's dungeon finder woes. This problem is simple to solve...

Just get rid of the dumb timer. Stop punishing the wrong people for other players laziness and self entitlement towards being carried, and preventing the group from getting a clear.

If people had to choice to leave a group that's doomed to fail at the start. And be able to requeue for the dungeon right away. This toxicity with group finder wouldn't even be a thing.

There is a good reason why some of us with high end game content clears. Nolonger even bother with dungeons anymore. More so vet dungeons, even more so vet DLC dungeons which is 9 times out of 10 a auto fail due to a dps that just have C-Frags on repeat cast...(Not even joking about 4 months ago, this happened to me) Or that tank who has not taunt and goes Werewolf and group continually dies to first boss for 45 mins. Or that healer in vRoM who don't use a resto staff.

If we had to option to just leave groups like that at no penalty. Most if not all of the toxicity would clear up overnight. Since we can't it's the toxic wild wild west out there in group finder. And most of us players that can run the content very smootly are just not bothering. Because it's just not worth the headache nor grief. I plays a video game to have fun not to get trolled, or to have to babysit some can't be asked or told how to play rando.

So yeah good luck out there in the Wild Wild West fellow gamers!

monktoasty · February 2018

Why would anyone want or care to see someone's champ lvl? Oh yeah those who are intent on judging them based on it

LordSemaj · February 2018

monktoasty wrote: »

Why would anyone want or care to see someone's champ lvl? Oh yeah those who are intent on judging them based on it

Would you rather they enter the dungeon, watch you feebly try to solo a few trash mobs, then decide your damage was too low and kick/replace you? Because it's the same result, just with more time wasted for everyone, including you.

LiquidPony · February 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Some weeks ago, I got into a vCoS on my tertiary account that had about 250CP.

I was kicked the instant the group was formed. Didn't bother waiting for the first trash pull to see if I was competent. Didn't get a chance to look at my character and see that she had a vMA staff and the title for vFalkreath HM. Didn't have a chance for me to say, "I've done vCoS literally over a hundred times." Just got kicked unceremoniously, even though I probably would've done better than most of the CP-capped DPS you'd find in group finder.

Of course, an experienced player on an alt account is not a common thing, and of course most low-CP players are pretty inexperienced and bad. But I will never vote for a kick until at least after the first few trash pulls so I can see if they look like they know what they're doing or if they're one of those people spamming light attacks. And if they are really bad, then sure, I'm okay with kicking them, even if they are CP-capped.

But a lot of people don't give you that kind of courtesy. I got queued into a vWGT on a CP-capped account, and the group had a low-CP DPS. Before we even went up the ladder, someone in the group was trying to vote-kick them off. I vetoed every vote, and the idiot would just start another vote. Did they ever get tired of clicking Vote to Kick over and over and over, only for the vote to instantly fail each time? Right before the first boss, I got tired of vetoing every vote, and I said to the group that whoever is initiating the vote should stop wasting their time because the low-CP DPS looked like s/he was competent and was using what looked like an okay rotation of skills and I will not vote to kick someone just because they're low CP. The healer at that point ragequit--apparently they were the *** doing the nonstop votes. We picked up a replacement healer who was also low CP, and we cleared the vWGT. Was it rough in certain places? Sure. But how do you expect people to learn if you don't give them the chance to?

So yes, I fully support hiding the CP past 160. That was the way it used to be before the VR removal. And what it'll do is force people to actually look at the things that matter before kicking.

In short: I'm not against kicking players, per se. And you can still kick players if the display was limited to 160. But you'd be forced to either look at how they do on the initial trash or ask them if they are familiar with the dungeon. You'd be forced to kick someone based on merit instead of just a dumb number by their name. Apparently, this is too radical of an idea for most of the people in this thread.

Totally agree. Had a similar experience just today, and several other times over the past week.

I'm far over the cap on my console account. Have completed everything in PvE except vMoL HM and vAS+2.

I'm temporarily down to one TV in the house, so I've been playing on my old PC account when my wife is using the TV.

I'm about CP195. Got an instant kick in vet City of Ash 1, before the first trash pull. I've soloed that dungeon a hundred times. I've been soloing it on my CP195 stamsorc to get Sunderflame since I keep getting insta-kicked from dungeon finder groups. Really frustrating and opened my eyes a bit to what the game experience can be like for some players. People suck.

idk · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Just remove it....cause they said they would remove VR but didn’t. They made it CP

They did remove VR. We no longer have that absurd leveling system for each character. Never seen such a poorly conceived system before.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

* People getting insta-kicked from dungeon finder for low CP, usually most people below 400. It has become an established thing.

Really? I run random vet dungeons with people below CP400 all the time and they don't get kicked.

Sevn · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

Why would anyone want or care to see someone's champ lvl? Oh yeah those who are intent on judging them based on it

Would you rather they enter the dungeon, watch you feebly try to solo a few trash mobs, then decide your damage was too low and kick/replace you? Because it's the same result, just with more time wasted for everyone, including you.

So how much time is wasted when the replacement player is also low cp? And the player after that? Do you all just spend 20 minutes kicking and replacing low cp players until you find a player that can carry, er, compare with you?

How about you all enter the dungeon and judge them off of their performance if judgment is needed.

ArchMikem · February 2018

Most of the time lower CP players are only kicked because they queued into a vet dungeon only doing light attacks, or they queued as a dps AND a tank or healer just to get a group more quickly.

RavenSworn · February 2018

Why are we looking at cp numbers when for all you know, the guy with the 600+++ cp has points into damage shields and crit resistance or siphoner, none in the right places while the one with 200 points has put in the right places for proper dps in a dungeon?

How do you even know if the cp600s are wearing the right gear? If they are doing the right rotations? The right food buffs?

Does cp help? Definitely. But like all tools, when not use properly, it becomes a hindrance. You can have a $600 hammer but a $40 saw can cut wood waaaaaayyy better than that hammer.

I don't get it. It's so arbitrary. Cp =/= knowledge. It doesn't even cover skill. Bring the player, not the class (though there are many instances when the right class does significantly better than others but that's another argument for another thread).

Magdalina · February 2018

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I like this. I think this actually has potential of resulting in LESS griefing than the current system when some people kick <300 cp on sight just because, before even first trash pull. People kick now, people would kick then, except then they'd at least have valid reasons for kicking rather than assumptions. Of course, ZOS is never gonna see it that way.

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

No. No to the Vet level. No to the CP160 disguise. Why must every random dungeon run be a pain in the ass when that said low CP player is 1. Not willing to communicate 2. Not willing to learn 3. Light/heavy attack only when they are not even built for it. Just put CP cap on random group finder so that people paired in a group are more or less in the same range. Maybe -100 CP to the current cap when below the cap. When above the cap, no limits. But then, we'd need really well functioning group finder first.

Invincible · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

But bad players money is still green.

LadyNalcarya · February 2018

I agree.
A lot of people these days seem to be obsessed with cps and as a result we have a lot of grinders who cant pull their weight in group content (because they mindlessly grinded or bought already leveled account instead of playing the game). This isnt good for the community in my opinion.

duendology · February 2018

Ugh...

Just get rid of Random Dungeon Finder altogether. Problem solved. No more whining on both sides. Then again I know it solves nothing... but this argument is, in many ways, both hilarious and irritating. The bottomline is some people can't cope with "randomness" of the Random Dungeon Finder... ughh

I really do have an allergy to so called elitists and leaderboard junkies and people who are in endless hurry to finish dungeons in about 10 minutes - or less- because they have 20 more dungeons to finish because "da motif" or whatever damn loot they're after. And they get irritated because someone dared to spoil their flawless run.

Or wait.. I have yet one more "brilliant idea". Once you're CP690 you're not allowed to use RDF anymore but have to form your own group to run dungeons...You're super hyper awesome experienced player anyway.. you can do it. Also, you get a dream team.. so no whining, no kicking. You're best of the best of the best of the best, and now you can finish a dungeon before you even enter it.. right? And you wouldn't have to burden people with your "elitist awesomeness". This would be a bliss actually.
o_0

I am curious how many players avoid RDF to just avoid dealing with this "elitist awesomeness" .

FloppyTouch · February 2018

Cp just means you been playing the game longer and most people when they play a game longer are better. Anything you do a lot over a long period of time means you will be better then someone that just started.

Some people don’t have patience and jump to the kick when they see a low cp. I wait until 1st boss if ur dps is good you don’t die and I see some skill we will continue. If ur crap and die more then once then it’s vote to kick.

Cp is the only gauge we have right now to tell if this is going to take hours and might fail or going to be a smoother run. Most of the time when in a group of full 690s things go very well.

I say keep it, if you are good and low cp then just grind out the cp it’s really not that hard I started a EU character was able to get to 400cp very fast.

I’m kind of tired hearing about “good” low cp players getting kicked just get the easy cp and stop crying

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · February 2018

Rev Rielle wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Instead of kicking and being rude, you should ask them if they'd like any help and try to advise in a respectful, patient manner.
Be part of the solution moving towards a better community, not part of the problem of elitist trash in the game. Those are the bad players in most people's eyes.

duendology · February 2018

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Don't do randoms.

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

duendology wrote: »

Ugh...

Just get rid of Random Dungeon Finder altogether. Problem solved. No more whining on both sides. Then again I know it solves nothing... but this argument is, in many ways, both hilarious and irritating. The bottomline is some people can't cope with "randomness" of the Random Dungeon Finder... ughh

I really do have an allergy to so called elitists and leaderboard junkies and people who are in endless hurry to finish dungeons in about 10 minutes - or less- because they have 20 more dungeons to finish because "da motif" or whatever damn loot they're after. And they get irritated because someone dared to spoil their flawless run.

Or wait.. I have yet one more "brilliant idea". Once you're CP690 you're not allowed to use RDF anymore but have to form your own group to run dungeons...You're super hyper awesome experienced player anyway.. you can do it. Also, you get a dream team.. so no whining, no kicking. You're best of the best of the best of the best, and now you can finish a dungeon before you even enter it.. right? And you wouldn't have to burden people with your "elitist awesomeness". This would be a bliss actually.
o_0

I am curious how many players avoid RDF to just avoid dealing with this "elitist awesomeness" .

It's the main reason I do, yup. I know I'm a mediocre player and this upsets folk. So, I don't even bother anymore as I'm really not up for being shouted at.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · February 2018

duendology wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Don't do randoms.

"Dont do randoms if you dont want bad players!"

"Dont do randoms if you dont know how to do randoms efficently!"

It goes both ways.. this has been talked about before.

Bad players want to be carried/learn and good players just want to go in and get it done so they can move on.

No one will ever be happy. We should all quit and stop talking to each other. #solved

Edit: When I say quit, I mean quit talking about it. I do not mean quit the game. Just so mods dont try to remove this on the whole no quitting talk rule thingomabob.

SirCritical · February 2018

Nihility42 wrote: »

Nope. This is a bad idea. I've never been kicked from a dungeon since I hit CP 160 (cp 350 now, regardless of whther is was vet or normal. CP is part of knowing how good a player is

So you're a mediocre player?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · February 2018

SirCritical wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Nope. This is a bad idea. I've never been kicked from a dungeon since I hit CP 160 (cp 350 now, regardless of whther is was vet or normal. CP is part of knowing how good a player is

So you're a mediocre player?

They said "part" and that is correct. A level 10 player has a higher chance of being worse or knowing less than a player with 1000CP. It is not full proof but if you had to bet your life on a dungeon run being completed smoothly and you could ONLY select people based on CP/level and NO other information you would select those based on the information you could see.

People get toooo sensitive about this.