montiferus wrote: »

Could not agree more. It is a carry set for the trash can zergers of the world. I teabag those who use it extra hard.
/quote]

Your mountain of salt betrays you

brandonv516 wrote: »

Can't say I've ever seen this set in BGs. But maybe I have and just don't know what it looks like.

Edit: Nevermind I thought it was some bleed effect from something else. Not too common in BGs - never had a teammate using it.

I've had a teammate that was using it, SUPERRRRR strong set.

Earthgore truly is a strong set and currently without doubt BIS for all support players and healers in a raid.
I don't have the feeling though that the guilds which are using it to high efficiency are "carried" by this set: There are only 2 guilds to my knowledge (at least on EU) which run this set on ALL their support players (5-6+ which only really makes it viable at this mark because of the long cool down). Both guilds have farmed PUGs in this game since 2014 and will continue doing so because they are highly organized and are running maxed out builds in whatever meta ESO currently features - They will still dominate, because they adapt fast. PUGs will never do that, whatever nerf one throws at the "evil" ball groups. I honestly don't even care anymore what nerfs are thrown at us "evil" group players in order to break group play of any kind in Cyrodiil. If people think, making earthgore a completely useless set (which this thread suggests stating "its time for earthgore to go") will result in less PUGs being farmed... I think its not gonna happen. Ultimately the party that is able to adapt to the new (or old meta = Bloodspawn) and more importantly has decent group players to play their role to perfection, will always come out on top.

Conclusion: Is Earthgore strong? Yes, Is it best in Slot? Yes, Is it still OP? Maybe, Will killing it "improve" the chances of zergs to kill ball groups in CERTAIN (Tight, still standing stacking) situations? Sure, Will killing it kill ball groups? Never ever
Want to tune it further? OK, Want to kill it? Unnecessary, Killed it? Idc, cya in the next meta No salt intended and I am not sarcastic. People just way too overestimate the impact of certain sets on a groups general performance tbh - Killing a set never helps. Meta will simply shift.

PS: Yes, I run earthgore on my "pleb" raid healer.

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Venom4You wrote: »

Earthgore truly is a strong set and currently without doubt BIS for all support players and healers in a raid.
I don't have the feeling though that the guilds which are using it to high efficiency are "carried" by this set: There are only 2 guilds to my knowledge (at least on EU) which run this set on ALL their support players (5-6+ which only really makes it viable at this mark because of the long cool down). Both guilds have farmed PUGs in this game since 2014 and will continue doing so because they are highly organized and are running maxed out builds in whatever meta ESO currently features - They will still dominate, because they adapt fast. PUGs will never do that, whatever nerf one throws at the "evil" ball groups. I honestly don't even care anymore what nerfs are thrown at us "evil" group players in order to break group play of any kind in Cyrodiil. If people think, making earthgore a completely useless set (which this thread suggests stating "its time for earthgore to go") will result in less PUGs being farmed... I think its not gonna happen. Ultimately the party that is able to adapt to the new (or old meta = Bloodspawn) and more importantly has decent group players to play their role to perfection, will always come out on top.

Conclusion: Is Earthgore strong? Yes, Is it best in Slot? Yes, Is it still OP? Maybe, Will killing it "improve" the chances of zergs to kill ball groups in CERTAIN (Tight, still standing stacking) situations? Sure, Will killing it kill ball groups? Never ever
Want to tune it further? OK, Want to kill it? Unnecessary, Killed it? Idc, cya in the next meta No salt intended and I am not sarcastic. People just way too overestimate the impact of certain sets on a groups general performance tbh - Killing a set never helps. Meta will simply shift.

PS: Yes, I run earthgore on my "pleb" raid healer.

Unfortunately this well though out succinct post will just fly over the heads of those like the OP because, in their minds, they aren't being outplayed just out cheesed and if we can get this skill, this gear set, this class nerfed sufficiently enough then their true pvp skill will finally be revealed. These types of players and groups will always be farmed because they refuse to adapt to changes in the game and would rather spend their time complaining on the forums as opposed to changing their builds and group composition to counter the current meta. What these folks don't understand is that the next group meta builds are already on the board and ready for most good groups in anticipation of nerfs to the current meta and group support utility skills in Update 18. The meta shifts and they shift with it.

Actually I don’t get farmed much by the groups using this set. It’s quite possible to avoid dying even when you get caught in their cc spam destro storms. If I die to these groups I consider it my mistake. Nowhere in my post did I say that I wants it nerfed because I keep dying to them. On the contrary more often then not we’re able to run these groups out, it just takes a lot longer than it needs to because of earthgore. It’s a set that allows such groups to exist for longer than would be possible with normal healing abilities and skill. So, no, his comment doesn’t go over my head. I understand that most pvpers will always seek the easiest way to win. They will use the cheesiest sets, abilities and builds to clump as many people as possible. Zergs already have the advantages of numbers, there’s no reason they need sets like Earthgore to help them along. When the new cheese meta arises I’ll be right there to call it out.

Vapirko wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

oh boo who just outburst the heal

First of all it’s boo hoo, “boo who” is what a ghost might ask when they’re trying to figure out who to scare, like, “I have to boo who?”

Or the fourth line of a classic "knock knock" joke.

Feanor wrote: »

In my humble opinion ZOS just seems to be out of good ideas for sets. We have close to or more than 200 sets in the game I believe - and it’s getting harder and harder to come up with new “cool” ideas for sets to serve as incentive for new DLC.

In addition to that I also think the devs undervalue player creativity and impact on PvP in general. While the long CD makes the set somewhat balanced in 4 man content, it is an issue in groups larger than that - the set has no downsides if the CD is out of the equation.

A good idea would be for them to revamp old sets that no one uses. There are a lot, and it would give people a reason to go back over older content.

Azurya wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

a maximum of 10% off all ESO-players are PvPplaying, the other 90% fills their time with other content.
from this very 10%, another minorty, 1%, is always asking for NERFS,
mainly due to 2 reasons:
1. they die, and they think it is unfair when they die, because they are supernaturall
2. they cannot kill someone, and again think it is unfair, because they have the coolest build around

WHY? Why can´t you L2P? Be intelligent, find ways off counterplay, or just ignore such groups, don´t feed the troll!
There are no NERFS needed for 99% of the community, just for you, because you cannot play a game!!

Grow up! at last.

Or 3. they care about the game and don’t want something to be so overpowered that everyone who wants to be better than average is compelled to use it.

With the same logic a set that does 40k damage just for standing around would be fine. It’s just a game! L2P!

Azurya wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

@Azurya

That's a very narrow view on how to balance a game.

Hint: Many players are asking for nerfs (which should always be part of a balancing process) because they want more options and diversity instead of being forced into a few op builds/sets/classes/whatever or maybe a few very specific counters. And not because they need to L2P. And this applies to both PvP and PvE!

it is a narrow view on the game, to justify the yells from some PvPrs by this reasoning
There is none PVEr yelling for a nerf for Eartgore, because he gets healed on a trial!!
Nor is there any PVEr wanting a nerf for his gear, wepons, abilities because he gets pledges down in 30-40 minutes(all 3).

That are just PvPrs, who can not get it that they have to die every nowandthen!

It’s always these bad PvPers that cause the nerfs. Right. I must play a different game then. One where the devs have stated that the Morrowind sustain changes were done because of PvE (also known as „infinite sustain in trial raid groups“, „lower the ceiling, raise the floor“) and that the upcoming changes to off balance are solely based on the fact that damage is still to high - in PvE.

Speaking of Earthgore, it must also be noted that the set is used to circumvent certain PvE mechanics, most notably Sun Eater negates in MoL (or so I read at least). That’s 100% unintended.

So, I’m sorry to burst your PvE bubble where everything is just fine if not for those PvP players. No, it’s not. PvE received and continues to receive adjustments because of PvE.

But then again, you do seem to believe an absurd damage proc set would be no problem. After all, NPCs don’t complain.

When searching the forums for "too easy" i find plenty of complaints about too easy PvE content (nobody seems to complain about too easy PvP though), which is basically an indirect nerf request by PvE players. So no, it is not just PvP players who are asking for nerfs. Because not all PvE players want an easy mode game either.

Vapirko wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

a maximum of 10% off all ESO-players are PvPplaying, the other 90% fills their time with other content.
from this very 10%, another minorty, 1%, is always asking for NERFS,
mainly due to 2 reasons:
1. they die, and they think it is unfair when they die, because they are supernaturall
2. they cannot kill someone, and again think it is unfair, because they have the coolest build around

WHY? Why can´t you L2P? Be intelligent, find ways off counterplay, or just ignore such groups, don´t feed the troll!
There are no NERFS needed for 99% of the community, just for you, because you cannot play a game!!

Grow up! at last.

Okay, well please do share if you have a brilliant way of overcoming groups that stack earthgore and run destro/subassault and cc spam trains without running the same. If you can outburst multiple earthgore heals + whatever other heals, then please let me know how it’s done, I would honestly like to know this. Last time I checked even some of the best PvPers in the game hate that set and have a difficult time with it. And again, I’m not saying that it makes them invincible, time and again I’ve helped push these groups out of keeps and once they hit open world they usually crumble, but the set keeps them going a lot longer than they normally would.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to use the tools that ZOS provides in game to deal with earthgore stacking ball groups by arbitrarily taking those tools off the table to conform to some unwritten moral code. Are you asking how to take down one of these groups solo? If so, the answer is you aren't and even the most skilled and accomplished small scale and 1VX players will tell you organized groups are their bane. If you are asking how to do so as a group then there are strategies that work. There are a few EG groups we fight and kill consistently by baiting out those EG procs and defensive ults with light to medium AOE damage and then dump a quick burst with ult and negate. Identify the support builds and where they are located in the raid and center your burst aoe on them. Depending on the size of th stack it may take a few rounds of this to get them all down. Most of these types of raids tend to move in a straight line forward as they bomb and seldom change direction in mid push. Most also telegraph the hell out of their bomb with proxy det so you know this is coming. Practice spreading your group to the left and right of their push and regroup on their back line for your burst.

Also your group does need to build differently in order to pull this off, which is where I'm getting the impression many simply don't wish to adapt. Your group has to build tankier in order to take a hit if you are caught off guard or have some players that can't get out of the bomb path. You need to use high damage AoE ults in order to over power their heals and know when to reposition to avoid their counterbomb. Having access to immovability pots and Rapid Maneuvers is essential for your group to stay mobile and avoid being locked into the destroy train.

A good raid leader is essential and players need to have confidence in that leader to follow commands given. I think many in this game believe that they should be able to take down highly organized groups that build specifically for this type of combat without giving thought or putting in effort to countering. You simply aren't going to beat these groups with casual play unless you swamp them with massive numbers and even then, some of the better groups out there are going to make a fight out of it.

Vapirko wrote: »

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

a maximum of 10% off all ESO-players are PvPplaying, the other 90% fills their time with other content.
from this very 10%, another minorty, 1%, is always asking for NERFS,
mainly due to 2 reasons:
1. they die, and they think it is unfair when they die, because they are supernaturall
2. they cannot kill someone, and again think it is unfair, because they have the coolest build around

WHY? Why can´t you L2P? Be intelligent, find ways off counterplay, or just ignore such groups, don´t feed the troll!
There are no NERFS needed for 99% of the community, just for you, because you cannot play a game!!

Grow up! at last.

Okay, well please do share if you have a brilliant way of overcoming groups that stack earthgore and run destro/subassault and cc spam trains without running the same. If you can outburst multiple earthgore heals + whatever other heals, then please let me know how it’s done, I would honestly like to know this. Last time I checked even some of the best PvPers in the game hate that set and have a difficult time with it. And again, I’m not saying that it makes them invincible, time and again I’ve helped push these groups out of keeps and once they hit open world they usually crumble, but the set keeps them going a lot longer than they normally would.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to use the tools that ZOS provides in game to deal with earthgore stacking ball groups by arbitrarily taking those tools off the table to conform to some unwritten moral code. Are you asking how to take down one of these groups solo? If so, the answer is you aren't and even the most skilled and accomplished small scale and 1VX players will tell you organized groups are their bane. If you are asking how to do so as a group then there are strategies that work. There are a few EG groups we fight and kill consistently by baiting out those EG procs and defensive ults with light to medium AOE damage and then dump a quick burst with ult and negate. Identify the support builds and where they are located in the raid and center your burst aoe on them. Depending on the size of th stack it may take a few rounds of this to get them all down. Most of these types of raids tend to move in a straight line forward as they bomb and seldom change direction in mid push. Most also telegraph the hell out of their bomb with proxy det so you know this is coming. Practice spreading your group to the left and right of their push and regroup on their back line for your burst.

Also your group does need to build differently in order to pull this off, which is where I'm getting the impression many simply don't wish to adapt. Your group has to build tankier in order to take a hit if you are caught off guard or have some players that can't get out of the bomb path. You need to use high damage AoE ults in order to over power their heals and know when to reposition to avoid their counterbomb. Having access to immovability pots and Rapid Maneuvers is essential for your group to stay mobile and avoid being locked into the destroy train.

A good raid leader is essential and players need to have confidence in that leader to follow commands given. I think many in this game believe that they should be able to take down highly organized groups that build specifically for this type of combat without giving thought or putting in effort to countering. You simply aren't going to beat these groups with casual play unless you swamp them with massive numbers and even then, some of the better groups out there are going to make a fight out of it.

And why can't people just accept when a certain set is cheese? Highly organized groups should be hard to take down. Ive never once said that. So for the third or fourth time, Ill say that Im talking about groups that otherwise wouldn't stay alive. Groups that crumble open world and whose members, should they get separated from their groups and earth gores, generally get obliterated. I honestly don't know why people are arguing for this set unless they participate in such groups. Heals are already strong in this game, theres no need for sets like this. People cried for the selene nerf, people still cry for skoria nerfs, vipers got nerfed, 7th legion is getting a nerf, how is this any different?

I think that it has everything to do with how you are making your argument. As opposed to trash talking organized ball groups try to make your argument based on what the set does and why it's over performing. It really comes across as I don't like the way they play and they are trash being "carried" by this set. You may be surprised that I agree with EG being heavily adjusted.

The reason those players get obliterated when away from their group has nothing to do with EG and everything to do with how they are built. Building for true group play requires you to sacrifice much of your single target damage potential and, in some roles, survivability in order to maximize your effectiveness in the group role that you play. This is actually a weakness of these groups and if you can isolate a few then they can be taken down quite easily with the remainder of that group being extremely vulnerable as they have lost either a large portion of their damage, healing or support and everyone in that group has a vital role to play. This is especially true in groups that run 12 or less....a full raid group has a lot more cushion. It has very little to do with the group crutching on EG as you claim and yolo bombing those groups isn't going to get you anywhere. It's not that I necessarily disagree with your points on EG needing some adjustment, but I believe that you and many others are pointing to this set as the reason these groups are highly successful instead of analyzing what they are actually doing. EG is getting adjusted and will continue to be adjusted as well as destro ult, support build skills etc and these groups will continue to survive a lot longer than they should because they will adapt. What nerfs will we be asking for then?

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

a maximum of 10% off all ESO-players are PvPplaying, the other 90% fills their time with other content.
from this very 10%, another minorty, 1%, is always asking for NERFS,
mainly due to 2 reasons:
1. they die, and they think it is unfair when they die, because they are supernaturall
2. they cannot kill someone, and again think it is unfair, because they have the coolest build around

WHY? Why can´t you L2P? Be intelligent, find ways off counterplay, or just ignore such groups, don´t feed the troll!
There are no NERFS needed for 99% of the community, just for you, because you cannot play a game!!

Grow up! at last.

Okay, well please do share if you have a brilliant way of overcoming groups that stack earthgore and run destro/subassault and cc spam trains without running the same. If you can outburst multiple earthgore heals + whatever other heals, then please let me know how it’s done, I would honestly like to know this. Last time I checked even some of the best PvPers in the game hate that set and have a difficult time with it. And again, I’m not saying that it makes them invincible, time and again I’ve helped push these groups out of keeps and once they hit open world they usually crumble, but the set keeps them going a lot longer than they normally would.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to use the tools that ZOS provides in game to deal with earthgore stacking ball groups by arbitrarily taking those tools off the table to conform to some unwritten moral code. Are you asking how to take down one of these groups solo? If so, the answer is you aren't and even the most skilled and accomplished small scale and 1VX players will tell you organized groups are their bane. If you are asking how to do so as a group then there are strategies that work. There are a few EG groups we fight and kill consistently by baiting out those EG procs and defensive ults with light to medium AOE damage and then dump a quick burst with ult and negate. Identify the support builds and where they are located in the raid and center your burst aoe on them. Depending on the size of th stack it may take a few rounds of this to get them all down. Most of these types of raids tend to move in a straight line forward as they bomb and seldom change direction in mid push. Most also telegraph the hell out of their bomb with proxy det so you know this is coming. Practice spreading your group to the left and right of their push and regroup on their back line for your burst.

Also your group does need to build differently in order to pull this off, which is where I'm getting the impression many simply don't wish to adapt. Your group has to build tankier in order to take a hit if you are caught off guard or have some players that can't get out of the bomb path. You need to use high damage AoE ults in order to over power their heals and know when to reposition to avoid their counterbomb. Having access to immovability pots and Rapid Maneuvers is essential for your group to stay mobile and avoid being locked into the destroy train.

A good raid leader is essential and players need to have confidence in that leader to follow commands given. I think many in this game believe that they should be able to take down highly organized groups that build specifically for this type of combat without giving thought or putting in effort to countering. You simply aren't going to beat these groups with casual play unless you swamp them with massive numbers and even then, some of the better groups out there are going to make a fight out of it.

And why can't people just accept when a certain set is cheese? Highly organized groups should be hard to take down. Ive never once said that. So for the third or fourth time, Ill say that Im talking about groups that otherwise wouldn't stay alive. Groups that crumble open world and whose members, should they get separated from their groups and earth gores, generally get obliterated. I honestly don't know why people are arguing for this set unless they participate in such groups. Heals are already strong in this game, theres no need for sets like this. People cried for the selene nerf, people still cry for skoria nerfs, vipers got nerfed, 7th legion is getting a nerf, how is this any different?

I think that it has everything to do with how you are making your argument. As opposed to trash talking organized ball groups try to make your argument based on what the set does and why it's over performing. It really comes across as I don't like the way they play and they are trash being "carried" by this set. You may be surprised that I agree with EG being heavily adjusted.

The reason those players get obliterated when away from their group has nothing to do with EG and everything to do with how they are built. Building for true group play requires you to sacrifice much of your single target damage potential and, in some roles, survivability in order to maximize your effectiveness in the group role that you play. This is actually a weakness of these groups and if you can isolate a few then they can be taken down quite easily with the remainder of that group being extremely vulnerable as they have lost either a large portion of their damage, healing or support and everyone in that group has a vital role to play. This is especially true in groups that run 12 or less....a full raid group has a lot more cushion. It has very little to do with the group crutching on EG as you claim and yolo bombing those groups isn't going to get you anywhere. It's not that I necessarily disagree with your points on EG needing some adjustment, but I believe that you and many others are pointing to this set as the reason these groups are highly successful instead of analyzing what they are actually doing. EG is getting adjusted and will continue to be adjusted as well as destro ult, support build skills etc and these groups will continue to survive a lot longer than they should because they will adapt. What nerfs will we be asking for then?

Hopefully none so long as ZOS doesn’t introduce more op sets and abilities. Most of the groups I have in mind actually don’t have a very good success rate and I wouldn’t bother analyzing their tactics.