It’s Time For Earthgore To Go

Vapirko · February 2018

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

montiferus · February 2018

Could not agree more. It is a carry set for the trash can zergers of the world. I teabag those who use it extra hard.

Needs to be gone. Zos needs people who actually PVP to weigh in on the sets they create that completely screw up the balance in Cyrodiil.

Kikke · February 2018

first people complain about destro trains, now they complain about the counter too destro trains? realy?

KingExecration · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

first people complain about destro trains, now they complain about the counter too destro trains? realy?

There's a big difference from a counter and a crutch that saves just straight noobs from being outplayed by equipping a 2 pc monster set. I would go as far to say it's more annoying than malubeth ever was at its max cancer, and that's because earthgore can save a flock of scrubs easily.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2018

I feel the same about EG but I believe theyre holding back a bit on any big set nerfs until they get a feel for AOE caps removal . Just a guess . I'm sure @Wrobel and @ZOS_RichLambert have seen the data on it . They would be the only ones to say what plans are ahead but that is just my guessing .

brandonv516 · February 2018

Can't say I've ever seen this set in BGs. But maybe I have and just don't know what it looks like.

Edit: Nevermind I thought it was some bleed effect from something else. Not too common in BGs - never had a teammate using it.

Vapirko · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

first people complain about destro trains, now they complain about the counter too destro trains? realy?

This is not a counter to destro trains. This set is used by destro trains primarily and their sub assault spamming equivalents. The problem with introducing "counter" sets like this one is that the only people who willl use this kind of cheese meta is the people who were the problem in the first place. The best counter to cheese groups is for ZOS to not keep introducing sets and abilities that let them crutch, and then let us just take them down the old fashioned way.

Morgul667 · February 2018

Id rather see it receive a nerf that only impacts pvp so pve does not suffer from the nerf

But yeh it needs a serious tune down for pvp

DoctorESO · February 2018

.

Kikke · February 2018

As long as ESO PvP has been alive there has been "train setups" from waaay back with impulse trains, too spin to win trains, too NB bomb trains too current meta, the destro train.

What people fail too understand is that cyro is BALANCED around an Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance (AvAvA)... it's not balanced around player vs player (PvP). . . this is the key feature that most ESO PvPers forget, and then they go on the forums too cry that X people killed him for Y reason and screams for balance.

IF this game was balanced around your 1v1, the only thing that would happend is that the battlefield would go stale, noone can kill anyone, just a big grp crashing into a big grp with noone dying on either side. So the Alliance that do night caps would easly win the champaig as durning day the battle will stand still with noone dying. But this is apperently what the ESO PvP community wants it seems.

Draxys · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

As long as ESO PvP has been alive there has been "train setups" from waaay back with impulse trains, too spin to win trains, too NB bomb trains too current meta, the destro train.

What people fail too understand is that cyro is BALANCED around an Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance (AvAvA)... it's not balanced around player vs player (PvP). . . this is the key feature that most ESO PvPers forget, and then they go on the forums too cry that X people killed him for Y reason and screams for balance.

IF this game was balanced around your 1v1, the only thing that would happend is that the battlefield would go stale, noone can kill anyone, just a big grp crashing into a big grp with noone dying on either side. So the Alliance that do night caps would easly win the champaig as durning day the battle will stand still with noone dying. But this is apperently what the ESO PvP community wants it seems.

This makes absolutely no sense, especially considering the context of this thread.

Kikke · February 2018

Draxys wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense, especially considering the context of this thread.

it was a reply for my earlier statement.

Thogard · February 2018

IF they can't outright nerf it by changing it entirely, they need to add a 3s delay to the healing part of it to allow people to actually die during coordinated burst.

Turelus · February 2018

So far every counter to bomb trains has just become a tool of bomb trains. I do agree skills and attacks are not the solution.

I also feel the style of bomb trains shouldn't be removed, they're part of the PvP style and a valid tactic for those who can organise one.

I think we just need more systems to break fights within keeps up so one or two locations are not the key to a win, meaning one train can't dominate a capture.

NoFlash · February 2018

Sets shouldn't carry a ball group. Skill and coordination should.

Methariorn · February 2018

The only counter to *** bomb train would be a lag free game when you can side step asa you see the zergball coming; but most time the game respond with 3 age of delay cause massive lag/bad netcode.
EG is not a counter to a destrotrain but a tool to improve that stuping way of playing provviding insane healing and lift down the distress a zergnall may have, like siege wep or a coordinate grp of player starting to focus them one at time.

Ragnarock41 · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

first people complain about destro trains, now they complain about the counter too destro trains? realy?

both destro trains and the ''counter'' to destro trains shut down everything else.

We never asked for a ''counter'' to destro trains.

We asked for a proper friggen nerf.

Jsmalls · February 2018

Is it over proccing? If it had less than a 5% uptime I can't imagine it being that OP... But I was honestly ignorant to this set because I dismissed it when I saw the cool down. Granted... I did see looking for earth gore healer in chat the other day, and that never is a good sign.

Thogard · February 2018

Jsmalls wrote: »

Is it over proccing? If it had less than a 5% uptime I can't imagine it being that OP... But I was honestly ignorant to this set because I dismissed it when I saw the cool down. Granted... I did see looking for earth gore healer in chat the other day, and that never is a good sign.

The way you kill an organized large group in PvP is by synchronizing your offensive ultimates into a massive burst. If that large group is stacked on top of each other, which most organized but not great groups do, this is even more effective.

When that large ball gets hit with something that would kill them, and they have healers wearing earthgore, they do not die. They get 3s of invulnerability instead.

That red cloud over a group’s head is a message to good players. And that message says “you would have killed us, but you just got ZOSed instead”

thedude33 · February 2018

The ball trains that circle the keep walls doing nothing baffle me.

Munavar · February 2018

Yes, Earth Gore is strong. It is already being tuned down for the next patch. It may even get broken based on how the purge target is selected (FIFO, LIFO or priority list) and the delay it takes in making the determination.

Yes, I wear the set as it only 1 of 2 sets that are specifically designed for healing. I am amused by all of you that 'hate on' the aspect of healing.

No, the group I run in is not carried by the set. The number of given wipes a night feels pretty constant prior and post the set's release.

For counterpoints for this discussion:

Any good group is not just standing in the effect for a full 3 seconds. If they are then they are 'bads' (and will be dead in short order anyways) as everyone should be aware (simply evident of the overly numerous ways to cc in this game) that mobility is key to survival.
'Your' group has the same access to the set. If a variable is on both sides of an equation then it can be removed from the equation.
If you are saying: "My 'small man' group does not have as many people to run the set as the 'zerg' does!"; well, that is the choice 'you' make by running the way you choose to run. It is not an issue with the set.
Was it not that long ago 'people' were complaining about having longer and more involved fights? So, now (in some cases) you have to apply twice as much damage to kill a target making a fight longer. Is this set not achieving that outcome?

If ZOS should 'fix' something it should be the state that stamina based builds are in. Over the years, stamina now does:

damage mitigation (blocking)
damage avoidance (dodge)
higher single target burst (weapon abilities and weapon damage value can reach higher values)
healing

The only thing stamina does not have (yet):

cheap ranged AOE heal
AOE damage skills (all stamina has is the Bro-Breaker)

See, it is easy to find an aspect of the game to rail against.

KingExecration · February 2018

Munavar wrote: »

Yes, Earth Gore is strong. It is already being tuned down for the next patch. It may even get broken based on how the purge target is selected (FIFO, LIFO or priority list) and the delay it takes in making the determination.

Yes, I wear the set as it only 1 of 2 sets that are specifically designed for healing. I am amused by all of you that 'hate on' the aspect of healing.

No, the group I run in is not carried by the set. The number of given wipes a night feels pretty constant prior and post the set's release.

For counterpoints for this discussion:
Any good group is not just standing in the effect for a full 3 seconds. If they are then they are 'bads' (and will be dead in short order anyways) as everyone should be aware (simply evident of the overly numerous ways to cc in this game) that mobility is key to survival.

'Your' group has the same access to the set. If a variable is on both sides of an equation then it can be removed from the equation.

If you are saying: "My 'small man' group does not have as many people to run the set as the 'zerg' does!"; well, that is the choice 'you' make by running the way you choose to run. It is not an issue with the set.

Was it not that long ago 'people' were complaining about having longer and more involved fights? So, now (in some cases) you have to apply twice as much damage to kill a target making a fight longer. Is this set not achieving that outcome?

If ZOS should 'fix' something it should be the state that stamina based builds are in. Over the years, stamina now does:
damage mitigation (blocking)

damage avoidance (dodge)

higher single target burst (weapon abilities and weapon damage value can reach higher values)

healing

The only thing stamina does not have (yet):
cheap ranged AOE heal

AOE damage skills (all stamina has is the Bro-Breaker)

See, it is easy to find an aspect of the game to rail against.

I've played a pvp healer for a long time with small groups and such, it's way too forgiving with so many people stacking it compared to let's say bloodspawn and how useful it is or grothdarr. Nothing is on par with how powerful it is and what it does.

olsborg · February 2018

Totally agree, the heal is too much, doesnt matter how long the cooldown is or isnt, when it proccs, nothing will die inside the HoT.

Galalin · February 2018

When you start seeing NB's running it in organized raid grp's... does it not make you wonder? I mean NB's lol. This need to put it mildly some adjustment.

pieratsos · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

As long as ESO PvP has been alive there has been "train setups" from waaay back with impulse trains, too spin to win trains, too NB bomb trains too current meta, the destro train.

What people fail too understand is that cyro is BALANCED around an Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance (AvAvA)... it's not balanced around player vs player (PvP). . . this is the key feature that most ESO PvPers forget, and then they go on the forums too cry that X people killed him for Y reason and screams for balance.

IF this game was balanced around your 1v1, the only thing that would happend is that the battlefield would go stale, noone can kill anyone, just a big grp crashing into a big grp with noone dying on either side. So the Alliance that do night caps would easly win the champaig as durning day the battle will stand still with noone dying. But this is apperently what the ESO PvP community wants it seems.

What you fail to understand is that its not about balancing around 1v1 or 1vX or whatever you want to call it. It was never about that. Its about balancing around player skill. Its not about nerfing earthgore because trains use it. Its about nerfing a crutch that bad players use to cover their lack of skill.

KingExecration · February 2018

Galalin wrote: »

When you start seeing NB's running it in organized raid grp's... does it not make you wonder? I mean NB's lol. This need to put it mildly some adjustment.

Lol a friend of mine is a mag dk and he puts it on in groups at times. Soon stam builds will have it on.

Malamar1229 · February 2018

Let's do away with sets, weapons, and potions all together. Just go at it with class skills

Galalin · February 2018

Unlike VD or EG as a counter, I would like to see a set that provides a substantial damage increase to single target abilities based on either the number of enemies in a radius around you or based on the number of allies in a radius around the target. The problem with countering ball zergs is you cannot provide enough DPS to burst them down through the insane amount of heals/EG procs etc. I think sets like VD are also toxic and can used by ball grps to make them even stronger as is EG. By creating a set that provides increased single target damage based as i suggested it would essentially help balance any fight. By providing a bolstering type effect to single target damage it takes the attraction away from ball grps to use against smaller or spread out groups unlike EG,VD etc. I feel that sets like EG and VD are not only bad for the game but are actually making the problem they appear to be intended to address worse.

Added: Making more AoE to counter AoE is the wrong appoach in my view. Adding more points to capture will make little to no difference as players will just go to each point balled up. Its not like they will spread out.

Grimlok_S · February 2018

I don't mind zerg groups. Let them stack.

I have VD and a Tether/Destro ult that should punish them for stacking. Recently, I've only been outplayed by several earthgores popping as soon as I push in, cap one to three kills and have to reset while earthgore heals through the VD burst.

Frustrating from a solo bomber's perspective, to say the least.

Jsmalls · February 2018

Galalin wrote: »

Unlike VD or EG as a counter, I would like to see a set that provides a substantial damage increase to single target abilities based on either the number of enemies in a radius around you or based on the number of allies in a radius around the target. The problem with countering ball zergs is you cannot provide enough DPS to burst them down through the insane amount of heals/EG procs etc. I think sets like VD are also toxic and can used by ball grps to make them even stronger as is EG. By creating a set that provides increased single target damage based as i suggested it would essentially help balance any fight. By providing a bolstering type effect to single target damage it takes the attraction away from ball grps to use against smaller or spread out groups unlike EG,VD etc. I feel that sets like EG and VD are not only bad for the game but are actually making the problem they appear to be intended to address worse.

Added: Making more AoE to counter AoE is the wrong appoach in my view. Adding more points to capture will make little to no difference as players will just go to each point balled up. Its not like they will spread out.

Been begging for a set that scales with enemy players in a certain radius

Galalin · February 2018

Grimlok_S wrote: »

I don't mind zerg groups. Let them stack.

I have VD and a Tether/Destro ult that should punish them for stacking. Recently, I've only been outplayed by several earthgores popping as soon as I push in, cap one to three kills and have to reset while earthgore heals through the VD burst.

Frustrating from a solo bomber's perspective, to say the least.

Perfect example of why VD and more AoE is not needed. I don't feel that 1 player should obliterate 10-20 ppl in a second either. Then every solo player runs that and how fun is that. I think VD and EG are both cancer to the game. Its either fun to die instantly with balls groups or die instantly from VD.