It’s Time For Earthgore To Go

kpittsniperb14_ESO

Vapirko wrote: »

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why this set was ever brought into the game (and we’ll be saying this about Zaan soon enough I suppose), is beyond me. The coming nerf is not enough. Guilds and groups are being carried by this set. At a time when ZOS is removing AOE caps, nerfed EOTS and seems interested in restructuring how Cyrodiil is played, a set like this has no place. It’s complete cheese and anyone who has been around a ball group knows it, it’s procing constantly keep these groups alive when they’d otherwise crumble. It lets certain guilds run laps around keep walls for ages, as they simple walk through coldfire and ultimates because they’re getting insane heals. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t ZOS say they were looking at how healing works cause it’s too strong in some cases? Earthgore is one of those cases.

a maximum of 10% off all ESO-players are PvPplaying, the other 90% fills their time with other content.
from this very 10%, another minorty, 1%, is always asking for NERFS,
mainly due to 2 reasons:
1. they die, and they think it is unfair when they die, because they are supernaturall
2. they cannot kill someone, and again think it is unfair, because they have the coolest build around

WHY? Why can´t you L2P? Be intelligent, find ways off counterplay, or just ignore such groups, don´t feed the troll!
There are no NERFS needed for 99% of the community, just for you, because you cannot play a game!!

Grow up! at last.

Okay, well please do share if you have a brilliant way of overcoming groups that stack earthgore and run destro/subassault and cc spam trains without running the same. If you can outburst multiple earthgore heals + whatever other heals, then please let me know how it’s done, I would honestly like to know this. Last time I checked even some of the best PvPers in the game hate that set and have a difficult time with it. And again, I’m not saying that it makes them invincible, time and again I’ve helped push these groups out of keeps and once they hit open world they usually crumble, but the set keeps them going a lot longer than they normally would.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to use the tools that ZOS provides in game to deal with earthgore stacking ball groups by arbitrarily taking those tools off the table to conform to some unwritten moral code. Are you asking how to take down one of these groups solo? If so, the answer is you aren't and even the most skilled and accomplished small scale and 1VX players will tell you organized groups are their bane. If you are asking how to do so as a group then there are strategies that work. There are a few EG groups we fight and kill consistently by baiting out those EG procs and defensive ults with light to medium AOE damage and then dump a quick burst with ult and negate. Identify the support builds and where they are located in the raid and center your burst aoe on them. Depending on the size of th stack it may take a few rounds of this to get them all down. Most of these types of raids tend to move in a straight line forward as they bomb and seldom change direction in mid push. Most also telegraph the hell out of their bomb with proxy det so you know this is coming. Practice spreading your group to the left and right of their push and regroup on their back line for your burst.

Also your group does need to build differently in order to pull this off, which is where I'm getting the impression many simply don't wish to adapt. Your group has to build tankier in order to take a hit if you are caught off guard or have some players that can't get out of the bomb path. You need to use high damage AoE ults in order to over power their heals and know when to reposition to avoid their counterbomb. Having access to immovability pots and Rapid Maneuvers is essential for your group to stay mobile and avoid being locked into the destroy train.

A good raid leader is essential and players need to have confidence in that leader to follow commands given. I think many in this game believe that they should be able to take down highly organized groups that build specifically for this type of combat without giving thought or putting in effort to countering. You simply aren't going to beat these groups with casual play unless you swamp them with massive numbers and even then, some of the better groups out there are going to make a fight out of it.

And why can't people just accept when a certain set is cheese? Highly organized groups should be hard to take down. Ive never once said that. So for the third or fourth time, Ill say that Im talking about groups that otherwise wouldn't stay alive. Groups that crumble open world and whose members, should they get separated from their groups and earth gores, generally get obliterated. I honestly don't know why people are arguing for this set unless they participate in such groups. Heals are already strong in this game, theres no need for sets like this. People cried for the selene nerf, people still cry for skoria nerfs, vipers got nerfed, 7th legion is getting a nerf, how is this any different?

I think that it has everything to do with how you are making your argument. As opposed to trash talking organized ball groups try to make your argument based on what the set does and why it's over performing. It really comes across as I don't like the way they play and they are trash being "carried" by this set. You may be surprised that I agree with EG being heavily adjusted.

The reason those players get obliterated when away from their group has nothing to do with EG and everything to do with how they are built. Building for true group play requires you to sacrifice much of your single target damage potential and, in some roles, survivability in order to maximize your effectiveness in the group role that you play. This is actually a weakness of these groups and if you can isolate a few then they can be taken down quite easily with the remainder of that group being extremely vulnerable as they have lost either a large portion of their damage, healing or support and everyone in that group has a vital role to play. This is especially true in groups that run 12 or less....a full raid group has a lot more cushion. It has very little to do with the group crutching on EG as you claim and yolo bombing those groups isn't going to get you anywhere. It's not that I necessarily disagree with your points on EG needing some adjustment, but I believe that you and many others are pointing to this set as the reason these groups are highly successful instead of analyzing what they are actually doing. EG is getting adjusted and will continue to be adjusted as well as destro ult, support build skills etc and these groups will continue to survive a lot longer than they should because they will adapt. What nerfs will we be asking for then?

Hopefully none so long as ZOS doesn’t introduce more op sets and abilities. Most of the groups I have in mind actually don’t have a very good success rate and I wouldn’t bother analyzing their tactics.

So what's the point of this thread then? If these groups aren't successful enough to even warrant your consideration then clearly EG isn't as overperforming as you claim. You asked questions and I've answered them in as open and sincere manner as I could.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Feanor wrote: »

The healing is just simply absurd. Compare it to Chokethorn, the monster set that comes closest to Earthgore in terms of raw healing power.

(1 items) Adds 129 Magica Recovery

(2 items) When you use a heal ability, you have a 15% chance to summon a strangler sapling that heals you or an ally for 19565 Health over 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

It’s 2/3 of the healing, spread out over 4 seconds, on a vastly lower proc chance, and most importantly, single target.

If you look for AoE heals, this was the only set before Earthgore:

(1 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka

(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 5% chance to summon a totem for 6 seconds that heals you and your allies in area for 3483 Health every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Right. Bogdan the Nightflame, a set that nobody ever wore. Compare it to this:

(1 items) Adds 2% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target that is under 50% Health you conjure a pool of quenching blood underneath them, which soaks up enemy placed effects instantly and heals all friendly targets in the area for 30000 Health over 3 seconds. This effect can occur once every 35 seconds.

Even if you take PvP out of the equation and just compare the available healing monster sets Earthgore has a power level never before seen in the game. And that’s why adjustments are warranted.

Excellent post and I 100% agree with everything you said...

technohic

Just disable procs in PVP already. I’d have to give up some sets but at least it would remove the power of automatic abilities

Vapirko

technohic wrote: »

Just disable procs in PVP already. I’d have to give up some sets but at least it would remove the power of automatic abilities

I’d be completely fine with this. Keep all the monster sets that offer constant uptimeike slimecraw. Allow the 1pc sets to work for combinations. The only huge loss would be bloodspawn. That set is perfectly balanced, and allows a lot of stam builds to work properly without being OP.

Quantum_V

Proc sets should supplement a build/player not carry them and be the judging factor between winning or loosing a fight.

Take bloodspawn for instance: it increases your ult gen and makes you tankier - but not in such a way that it decides whether you live or die.

The worst thing is that Earthgore not only dictates if you die or not - it dictates whether your zerg dies or not. Zergs should survive through skill and coordination not by an arbitrary god-like heal.

BohnT

Earthgore has to go in its current form.
It's just another tool for zergs to say "F all of You who want to be good instead of stacking numbers of bad players"
Earthgore does everything a zerg wants defensive wise.
1. it gives everyone in the radius invulnerability for atleast 3 seconds
2. it also reduces incoming damage and more importantly it negates negates the only ult that can kill a zerg on its own (yes this gets nerfed this patch)
3. and it cannot be used as efficiently by smaller groups or solo players this giving the zerg which has already a advantage in number even more advantages

Before Earthgore dropped bombing a group was doable, with 2 full damage builds you could kill most bomb trains when you timed everything well. With Earthgore there is no chance that 2 people can do anything against the zerg. You need at least 1 two man group more than there are EG users are in the zerg, which would make it easier to simply open a new zerg which uses EG aswell to avoid any deaths.


The set needs to be nerfed drastically because it breaks pvp in its current form:
It prolongs zerg fights which leads to more lag because the fights which would normally end in 1-2 mins take now 5-10 mins because no one dies and EG saves everyone when they are in a pinch.

triple the duration and cut the healing per tick by 75% then this set will be a long decent hot not the overpowered pile of mud it is right now