Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Isn't the whole point of Torug's to just shave off 5 seconds from a dungeon run time? If one boss can die in 50 seconds, it shaves off a second per boss.

Unless I guess if it takes an hour's worth of cumulative fighting to kill all the bosses, then it would save a minute.

@Bladerunner1
I dont know where you get the 5 seconds from, but the point of torugs pact on a tank is to buff your crusher enchantment on your weapon. When you combine torugs pact with infused weapons, it makes your crusher glyph way more powerful and gives it really high uptime. This of course boosts DPS for your group, which as you indicated, decreases the time to run content (again, no idea where you got those time frames from). As time to complete is one of two factors (the other being deaths) that contribute to score in this game (assuming you kill everything), it makes it very important.

Torugs has emerged as a substitute to tanks running Alkosh. Both essentially do the same thing, give a penetration buff to your group which equates to a DPS boost. In a perfect world, Alkosh is stronger because its a bigger Debuff. In practice, a lot of people prefer torugs pact. Even though its a bit smaller, the buff is more consistent, and doesnt depend on synergies. Even in great groups, synergy use is buggy in this game, and in pug groups, synergies can be pretty scarce. Torugs is also craftable which means you dont need to farm alkosh weapons or be forced into medium armor.

Torug's + Ebon + Lord Warden x2

Dependa what I'm doing. It'a usuallt torugs/alkosh vma lightning backbar with weakening.

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Isn't the whole point of Torug's to just shave off 5 seconds from a dungeon run time? If one boss can die in 50 seconds, it shaves off a second per boss.

Unless I guess if it takes an hour's worth of cumulative fighting to kill all the bosses, then it would save a minute.

@Bladerunner1
I dont know where you get the 5 seconds from, but the point of torugs pact on a tank is to buff your crusher enchantment on your weapon. When you combine torugs pact with infused weapons, it makes your crusher glyph way more powerful and gives it really high uptime. This of course boosts DPS for your group, which as you indicated, decreases the time to run content (again, no idea where you got those time frames from). As time to complete is one of two factors (the other being deaths) that contribute to score in this game (assuming you kill everything), it makes it very important.

Torugs has emerged as a substitute to tanks running Alkosh. Both essentially do the same thing, give a penetration buff to your group which equates to a DPS boost. In a perfect world, Alkosh is stronger because its a bigger Debuff. In practice, a lot of people prefer torugs pact. Even though its a bit smaller, the buff is more consistent, and doesnt depend on synergies. Even in great groups, synergy use is buggy in this game, and in pug groups, synergies can be pretty scarce. Torugs is also craftable which means you dont need to farm alkosh weapons or be forced into medium armor.

Assume a tank is already running infused with crusher. Adding Torug's To the build adds 632 penetration and a 100% crusher uptime against a single target. A DPS can remove 7 CPs out of piercing or spell erosion and redistribute them somewhere else for around 1% more damage. That plus the higher uptime more or less adds up to 2% more damage to a single target. How long do you spend killing bosses? Shave off 2% from that time and that's what Torug's brings to the group.

*Edit 632 penetration

Depends on the boss, I suppose. Faster than most? Haha

I get the math, just not sure it equates to flat times for a dungeon. In any event, Torugs is an excellent set if you are looking for a steady debuff on the target that it isnt as difficult to manage as Alkosh nor does it require much from your group. That is why I like it in 4-man. I dont tank all that much, but when I do, it's usually because I am carrying some newer players through dungeons. Alkosh is more than I want to deal with. In a proper group, Alkosh is superior for most content. That said, in a proper group, I am usually a DPS. That is why I like Ebon/Torugs for 4-man as it buffs both survival and DPS without having to think much about it. You could also do a lot worse than this as a main tank in a trial group that is still getting their feet wet.

munster1404 wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Isn't the whole point of Torug's to just shave off 5 seconds from a dungeon run time? If one boss can die in 50 seconds, it shaves off a second per boss.

Unless I guess if it takes an hour's worth of cumulative fighting to kill all the bosses, then it would save a minute.

Tbh, I don't see the point of Torug's either. But since its the meta and the Trial/Dungeon group calls for it, Oh well..... IMO, 5s vs 3.5s crusher cool down is almost negligible. Granted that Torug's also increases the armor debuff from crusher by a little. But considering that CP cap is rising every patch, I'm pretty sure in the future any DD can afford to place at least 50 points into penetration anyway. As a solo, I run 46 points in spell erosion at current 690CP. With 720CP next patch, I'm simply going to raise it to 56.

Until the Devs decide to raise boss resistance or further nerf penetration

Remember, this is a game of inches. Penetration is always the best DPS boost until your are up to the cap. That is why group penetration sets are so powerful. Torgus is a consistent and predictable way to get penetration with very little effort, which is why it is so popular.

It might sound easy to say that every damage dealer can put a little extra pen with CP, but remember that in a raid, that gets multiplied by 8. 46 is already a lot into pen and 56 is really high for PVE. Most dont much over 30-35. At an extreme example, instead of putting 56 into pen you put 30, and then multiple that by 8 DPS, you are talking about 208 CP that can be put into other damage trees for the cost of a couple of people running penetration sets. It's a very good tradeoff.

Like we said, torugs is not as good as alkosh, but it's much easier to use. And even though the difference in cooldown doesnt seem like much, it allows for 100% uptime on a target which is also important. The best Debuffs are the ones you can count on for 90%+ uptime, otherwise you end up either over or under penetrating most of the fight.