I think the majority of us just want DK to regain its identity that has been slowly stripped over the years. None of the DKs here want DK to be OP. Nobody wants us to be warden level strong. We just feel what made DK so attractive to us has been slowly torn away.

krathos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

In the end, these changes suck, they're uncalled for but the majority of people who complain about magdk in pvp are either duelers (where mdk is pretty strong) or PUGs who don't understand basic game mechanics and will be stomped regardless of what changes are made and they will continue to flock to the forums and complain that the big fat daddy DK spanked their ass back to oblivion. Same sort who still complain about sorc which is basically irrelevant now too.

"uncalled for", people have been complaining about dodge roll (and by association medium armor) being useless for well over a year now. Maybe you haven't been paying attention?

Making the hardest hitting non-ultimate instant cast dodgeable goes a long way towards fixing that.


Besides, if you tested mDK on PTS & saw how much better it is against block builds & dmg shield builds now, you'd realize how ridiculous that childish complaining is.

Man you just love to pick fights with literally everyone on this forum. Relax buddy. Medium armor sucks but that doesn't mean you can compare power lash to the problems it suffers from other ***. Medium armor sucks because you need full 7 piece for 10% crit unlike light, 12% WD is butt cheeks compared to 4k pen, roll dodge/sprint cost is easier to get from CP trees, and yes because a lot is undodgeable these days but power lash fills a gap that the DK is missing because of a slew of previous nerfs. In the end I don't care that power lash can be dodged, I'll work around it like I have every other change in every other patch. I just hate that it's being tossed aside as if its a bug when it was designed this way because of how it's used. DKs aren't just upset at the power lash changes. They're upset at the constant promise of buffs and then having them revoked and turned into nerfs every patch. The situation isn't as black and white as everyone here, including you, is making it out to be. The fact of the matter is, the identity of the class is constantly being diluted and that is true of many classes these days.

Medium armor is in a bad spot because it's whole defense (dodge) get's nullified by so many skills. It hasn't a second layer of "health" in form of wards like LA in addition to healing. It hasn't high mitigation, max health, health recovery and healing like HA in addition to block. It only has dodge and run. Problem is that too much goes through dodge. Every channel, every AoE and even some spammables.

Think of it like this, and I don't write this to make every skill even but only for comparative means:
What would you think about frags (a proc based ST skill, not even a spam) going through block? Or if it even grants a dmg shield after using?
What if Assasin's Will (a proc absed ST skill, not even a spam) going through wards?
What if these skills don't have a single proc but a time window in which it can be used twice?

Do you see the fuss about Dive being undodgeable and therefore *** up dodge builds? What did the warden guys tell me? I should block or LOS.
Remember the fuss when everybody thought Oblivion Dmg + Infused + Torug's would kill the permablock and shield stack meta also along the way? Everyone was in uproar.
Or about how high you can get your healing debuffs with ease? At least LA still has shields an HA SnB builds can relent to block on top of high mitigation mitigation.
Or how Soul Assault with being undodgeable, fast ticking (stam draining by block) and 70% snaring (making it hard to LOS) is an I-win button against medium? What was the counter? "Don't stand in the open" or "Don't wear medium".
How shield breaker LA spam was a stupid move for everyone with a ward? "Have a HoT running"

Oh it feels so great to have the own defense removed, doesn't it?
SO yes, the medium armor problem is that so much goes through dodge and they have no buffed second layer of defense. And Power Lash is just a part of the problem. If you can't wait for that guy to finish his dodge, it's your l2p issue then. If you don't see how you can hit non-dodgers twice as often and how healing length got buffed, it's because you don't want to see the benefits. It's a justified nerf for mDK against dodge-rollers. It's a buff for mDK against non-dodgers. Therefore it's merely a shift.

Only thing that it stupid about it in PvP is that you can't change targets fast because the cooldown is on you. If the cooldown would be on the guy who dodged, no other DK could PL him in that time. Would that be better?

I get the trouble in PvE, I really do. But don't act like one skill in between all our undodgeable *** will be the death sentence for mDKs in PvP.

Sincerely,
someone who plays medium armor builds and also mag DK

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

In the end, these changes suck, they're uncalled for but the majority of people who complain about magdk in pvp are either duelers (where mdk is pretty strong) or PUGs who don't understand basic game mechanics and will be stomped regardless of what changes are made and they will continue to flock to the forums and complain that the big fat daddy DK spanked their ass back to oblivion. Same sort who still complain about sorc which is basically irrelevant now too.

"uncalled for", people have been complaining about dodge roll (and by association medium armor) being useless for well over a year now. Maybe you haven't been paying attention?

Making the hardest hitting non-ultimate instant cast dodgeable goes a long way towards fixing that.


Besides, if you tested mDK on PTS & saw how much better it is against block builds & dmg shield builds now, you'd realize how ridiculous that childish complaining is.

Man you just love to pick fights with literally everyone on this forum. Relax buddy. Medium armor sucks but that doesn't mean you can compare power lash to the problems it suffers from other ***. Medium armor sucks because you need full 7 piece for 10% crit unlike light, 12% WD is butt cheeks compared to 4k pen, roll dodge/sprint cost is easier to get from CP trees, and yes because a lot is undodgeable these days but power lash fills a gap that the DK is missing because of a slew of previous nerfs. In the end I don't care that power lash can be dodged, I'll work around it like I have every other change in every other patch. I just hate that it's being tossed aside as if its a bug when it was designed this way because of how it's used. DKs aren't just upset at the power lash changes. They're upset at the constant promise of buffs and then having them revoked and turned into nerfs every patch. The situation isn't as black and white as everyone here, including you, is making it out to be. The fact of the matter is, the identity of the class is constantly being diluted and that is true of many classes these days.

Medium armor is in a bad spot because it's whole defense (dodge) get's nullified by so many skills. It hasn't a second layer of "health" in form of wards like LA in addition to healing. It hasn't high mitigation, max health, health recovery and healing like HA in addition to block. It only has dodge and run. Problem is that too much goes through dodge. Every channel, every AoE and even some spammables.

Think of it like this, and I don't write this to make every skill even but only for comparative means:
What would you think about frags (a proc based ST skill, not even a spam) going through block? Or if it even grants a dmg shield after using?
What if Assasin's Will (a proc absed ST skill, not even a spam) going through wards?
What if these skills don't have a single proc but a time window in which it can be used twice?

Do you see the fuss about Dive being undodgeable and therefore *** up dodge builds? What did the warden guys tell me? I should block or LOS.
Remember the fuss when everybody thought Oblivion Dmg + Infused + Torug's would kill the permablock and shield stack meta also along the way? Everyone was in uproar.
Or about how high you can get your healing debuffs with ease? At least LA still has shields an HA SnB builds can relent to block on top of high mitigation mitigation.
Or how Soul Assault with being undodgeable, fast ticking (stam draining by block) and 70% snaring (making it hard to LOS) is an I-win button against medium? What was the counter? "Don't stand in the open" or "Don't wear medium".
How shield breaker LA spam was a stupid move for everyone with a ward? "Have a HoT running"

Oh it feels so great to have the own defense removed, doesn't it?
SO yes, the medium armor problem is that so much goes through dodge and they have no buffed second layer of defense. And Power Lash is just a part of the problem. If you can't wait for that guy to finish his dodge, it's your l2p issue then. If you don't see how you can hit non-dodgers twice as often and how healing length got buffed, it's because you don't want to see the benefits. It's a justified nerf for mDK against dodge-rollers. It's a buff for mDK against non-dodgers. Therefore it's merely a shift.

Only thing that it stupid about it in PvP is that you can't change targets fast because the cooldown is on you. If the cooldown would be on the guy who dodged, no other DK could PL him in that time. Would that be better?

I get the trouble in PvE, I really do. But don't act like one skill in between all our undodgeable *** will be the death sentence for mDKs in PvP.

Sincerely,
someone who plays medium armor builds and also mag DK

Listen buddy. You should read more carefully before shouting L2P issues because I've stated several times that I will always adapt an overcome. My position is that ZOS continues to nerf DK to the point where it's just warden on hard mode. The class has lost its identity. All the dks were saying last week that power lash proc chance needed to be changed that having it spammable was broken. So stop trying to say we're just whining and that we need to L2P. Yeah medium armor sucks but power lash is designed to be undodgeable so ZOS labeling it a bug is *** slap in the face. It's a hard counter to roll just like fear, rune prison, fossilze, etc are a hard counter to block. It's way different than cliff racer. It's designed around the idea that in order to proc it you put the enemy in a place where they are encouraged to roll instead of block, etc. Why should high mobility classes get to weave in and out of combat with a slow lumbering DK without any impunity? You act as if power lash has ZERO counterplay and it has multiple ways to counter it. It's not birds where youre getting it spammed on you endlessly while you try to find line of sight. It's a proc, which is predictable, you know when its going to be used.

krathos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

In the end, these changes suck, they're uncalled for but the majority of people who complain about magdk in pvp are either duelers (where mdk is pretty strong) or PUGs who don't understand basic game mechanics and will be stomped regardless of what changes are made and they will continue to flock to the forums and complain that the big fat daddy DK spanked their ass back to oblivion. Same sort who still complain about sorc which is basically irrelevant now too.

"uncalled for", people have been complaining about dodge roll (and by association medium armor) being useless for well over a year now. Maybe you haven't been paying attention?

Making the hardest hitting non-ultimate instant cast dodgeable goes a long way towards fixing that.


Besides, if you tested mDK on PTS & saw how much better it is against block builds & dmg shield builds now, you'd realize how ridiculous that childish complaining is.

Man you just love to pick fights with literally everyone on this forum. Relax buddy. Medium armor sucks but that doesn't mean you can compare power lash to the problems it suffers from other ***. Medium armor sucks because you need full 7 piece for 10% crit unlike light, 12% WD is butt cheeks compared to 4k pen, roll dodge/sprint cost is easier to get from CP trees, and yes because a lot is undodgeable these days but power lash fills a gap that the DK is missing because of a slew of previous nerfs. In the end I don't care that power lash can be dodged, I'll work around it like I have every other change in every other patch. I just hate that it's being tossed aside as if its a bug when it was designed this way because of how it's used. DKs aren't just upset at the power lash changes. They're upset at the constant promise of buffs and then having them revoked and turned into nerfs every patch. The situation isn't as black and white as everyone here, including you, is making it out to be. The fact of the matter is, the identity of the class is constantly being diluted and that is true of many classes these days.

Medium armor is in a bad spot because it's whole defense (dodge) get's nullified by so many skills. It hasn't a second layer of "health" in form of wards like LA in addition to healing. It hasn't high mitigation, max health, health recovery and healing like HA in addition to block. It only has dodge and run. Problem is that too much goes through dodge. Every channel, every AoE and even some spammables.

Think of it like this, and I don't write this to make every skill even but only for comparative means:
What would you think about frags (a proc based ST skill, not even a spam) going through block? Or if it even grants a dmg shield after using?
What if Assasin's Will (a proc absed ST skill, not even a spam) going through wards?
What if these skills don't have a single proc but a time window in which it can be used twice?

Do you see the fuss about Dive being undodgeable and therefore *** up dodge builds? What did the warden guys tell me? I should block or LOS.
Remember the fuss when everybody thought Oblivion Dmg + Infused + Torug's would kill the permablock and shield stack meta also along the way? Everyone was in uproar.
Or about how high you can get your healing debuffs with ease? At least LA still has shields an HA SnB builds can relent to block on top of high mitigation mitigation.
Or how Soul Assault with being undodgeable, fast ticking (stam draining by block) and 70% snaring (making it hard to LOS) is an I-win button against medium? What was the counter? "Don't stand in the open" or "Don't wear medium".
How shield breaker LA spam was a stupid move for everyone with a ward? "Have a HoT running"

Oh it feels so great to have the own defense removed, doesn't it?
SO yes, the medium armor problem is that so much goes through dodge and they have no buffed second layer of defense. And Power Lash is just a part of the problem. If you can't wait for that guy to finish his dodge, it's your l2p issue then. If you don't see how you can hit non-dodgers twice as often and how healing length got buffed, it's because you don't want to see the benefits. It's a justified nerf for mDK against dodge-rollers. It's a buff for mDK against non-dodgers. Therefore it's merely a shift.

Only thing that it stupid about it in PvP is that you can't change targets fast because the cooldown is on you. If the cooldown would be on the guy who dodged, no other DK could PL him in that time. Would that be better?

I get the trouble in PvE, I really do. But don't act like one skill in between all our undodgeable *** will be the death sentence for mDKs in PvP.

Sincerely,
someone who plays medium armor builds and also mag DK

It's a hard counter to roll just like fear, rune prison, fossilze, etc are a hard counter to block. It's way different than cliff racer. It's designed around the idea that in order to proc it you put the enemy in a place where they are encouraged to roll instead of block, etc. Why should high mobility classes get to weave in and out of combat with a slow lumbering DK without any impunity? You act as if power lash has ZERO counterplay and it has multiple ways to counter it. It's not birds where youre getting it spammed on you endlessly while you try to find line of sight. It's a proc, which is predictable, you know when its going to be used.

Funny that all the skills you mentioned are a counter to dodge as well. And why should everything a mDK does be a undodgeable? All you have to do against a dodge roller is to wait till he finished his dodge. Might leap first and then lash instead of lash into leap. And against someone who doesn't roll but shields/ blocks, you do just as you did before. With the exception that you get another lash for free.

That change means you can't just mindlessly unwind talons - whip - lash but that there is room for a bit more counterplay in between all the undodgeable stuff of mDKs.

krathos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

In the end, these changes suck, they're uncalled for but the majority of people who complain about magdk in pvp are either duelers (where mdk is pretty strong) or PUGs who don't understand basic game mechanics and will be stomped regardless of what changes are made and they will continue to flock to the forums and complain that the big fat daddy DK spanked their ass back to oblivion. Same sort who still complain about sorc which is basically irrelevant now too.

"uncalled for", people have been complaining about dodge roll (and by association medium armor) being useless for well over a year now. Maybe you haven't been paying attention?

Making the hardest hitting non-ultimate instant cast dodgeable goes a long way towards fixing that.


Besides, if you tested mDK on PTS & saw how much better it is against block builds & dmg shield builds now, you'd realize how ridiculous that childish complaining is.

Man you just love to pick fights with literally everyone on this forum. Relax buddy. Medium armor sucks but that doesn't mean you can compare power lash to the problems it suffers from other ***. Medium armor sucks because you need full 7 piece for 10% crit unlike light, 12% WD is butt cheeks compared to 4k pen, roll dodge/sprint cost is easier to get from CP trees, and yes because a lot is undodgeable these days but power lash fills a gap that the DK is missing because of a slew of previous nerfs. In the end I don't care that power lash can be dodged, I'll work around it like I have every other change in every other patch. I just hate that it's being tossed aside as if its a bug when it was designed this way because of how it's used. DKs aren't just upset at the power lash changes. They're upset at the constant promise of buffs and then having them revoked and turned into nerfs every patch. The situation isn't as black and white as everyone here, including you, is making it out to be. The fact of the matter is, the identity of the class is constantly being diluted and that is true of many classes these days.

Medium armor is in a bad spot because it's whole defense (dodge) get's nullified by so many skills. It hasn't a second layer of "health" in form of wards like LA in addition to healing. It hasn't high mitigation, max health, health recovery and healing like HA in addition to block. It only has dodge and run. Problem is that too much goes through dodge. Every channel, every AoE and even some spammables.

Think of it like this, and I don't write this to make every skill even but only for comparative means:
What would you think about frags (a proc based ST skill, not even a spam) going through block? Or if it even grants a dmg shield after using?
What if Assasin's Will (a proc absed ST skill, not even a spam) going through wards?
What if these skills don't have a single proc but a time window in which it can be used twice?

Do you see the fuss about Dive being undodgeable and therefore *** up dodge builds? What did the warden guys tell me? I should block or LOS.
Remember the fuss when everybody thought Oblivion Dmg + Infused + Torug's would kill the permablock and shield stack meta also along the way? Everyone was in uproar.
Or about how high you can get your healing debuffs with ease? At least LA still has shields an HA SnB builds can relent to block on top of high mitigation mitigation.
Or how Soul Assault with being undodgeable, fast ticking (stam draining by block) and 70% snaring (making it hard to LOS) is an I-win button against medium? What was the counter? "Don't stand in the open" or "Don't wear medium".
How shield breaker LA spam was a stupid move for everyone with a ward? "Have a HoT running"

Oh it feels so great to have the own defense removed, doesn't it?
SO yes, the medium armor problem is that so much goes through dodge and they have no buffed second layer of defense. And Power Lash is just a part of the problem. If you can't wait for that guy to finish his dodge, it's your l2p issue then. If you don't see how you can hit non-dodgers twice as often and how healing length got buffed, it's because you don't want to see the benefits. It's a justified nerf for mDK against dodge-rollers. It's a buff for mDK against non-dodgers. Therefore it's merely a shift.

Only thing that it stupid about it in PvP is that you can't change targets fast because the cooldown is on you. If the cooldown would be on the guy who dodged, no other DK could PL him in that time. Would that be better?

I get the trouble in PvE, I really do. But don't act like one skill in between all our undodgeable *** will be the death sentence for mDKs in PvP.

Sincerely,
someone who plays medium armor builds and also mag DK

Listen buddy. You should read more carefully before shouting L2P issues because I've stated several times that I will always adapt an overcome. My position is that ZOS continues to nerf DK to the point where it's just warden on hard mode. The class has lost its identity. All the dks were saying last week that power lash proc chance needed to be changed that having it spammable was broken. So stop trying to say we're just whining and that we need to L2P. Yeah medium armor sucks but power lash is designed to be undodgeable so ZOS labeling it a bug is *** slap in the face. It's a hard counter to roll just like fear, rune prison, fossilze, etc are a hard counter to block. It's way different than cliff racer. It's designed around the idea that in order to proc it you put the enemy in a place where they are encouraged to roll instead of block, etc. Why should high mobility classes get to weave in and out of combat with a slow lumbering DK without any impunity? You act as if power lash has ZERO counterplay and it has multiple ways to counter it. It's not birds where youre getting it spammed on you endlessly while you try to find line of sight. It's a proc, which is predictable, you know when its going to be used.

Literally every attack from mag Dk is undodgeable, just saying. I just don't understand the magicka Dk community, none of you actually understands that it currently is ZERO fun to fight against a magicka Dk and all your suggestions seem to ignore this point. Mag Dks want Wings to be super strong again while ignoring that it would take away the fun from projectile based builds to play against Dks. They want to have all abilities undodgeable and ignore that it is zero fun to fight against as a rollbuild. Fighting against a block casting pressure monster is already no fun, it is even less fun with these hardcounter mechanics.
It's unlikely that medium armor gets buffed because of Nightblades: It's no fun to fight against a Cloakspammer (and that's why many Nightblades would be fine with a Cloak nerf if medium armor gets a buff). Same as Sorc: It's unlikely that the class gets buffed unless shieldstacking is fixed, because nobody has fun fighting against a shieldspammer and many sorcs want to make stacking Harness and Hardened Ward impossible.
Now to Dks: It's in my opinion the class which is by far the least fun to play against (exactly the same level of "fun" as fighting against super tanky heavy armor high weapondamage builds, defile cheeser or against petsorcs - but I'm playing a rollbuild unless I'm super pissed and switch to heavy armor so I'm biased here) but basically no Dk here understands why and instead of making suggestions that might make mag Dk even better overall you guys stick to this "I'm supposed to hardcounter you, l2p, stop crying" agenda and just want to be the bad guy who nobody likes and nobody wants to fight against. Think about it. It's unlikely that ZOS will buff mag Dk as long as it would negatively affect the majority of the playerbase - heck some of you guys want to be able to hardcounter every projectile build, hardcounter every rollbuild and are able to spam 5x Power Lash in a row with Skoria/Zaan on top of that against pure meele builds (reminds me of the statement from a League of Legends developer: "We rather destroy one champion before he destroys the game").

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

In the end, these changes suck, they're uncalled for but the majority of people who complain about magdk in pvp are either duelers (where mdk is pretty strong) or PUGs who don't understand basic game mechanics and will be stomped regardless of what changes are made and they will continue to flock to the forums and complain that the big fat daddy DK spanked their ass back to oblivion. Same sort who still complain about sorc which is basically irrelevant now too.

"uncalled for", people have been complaining about dodge roll (and by association medium armor) being useless for well over a year now. Maybe you haven't been paying attention?

Making the hardest hitting non-ultimate instant cast dodgeable goes a long way towards fixing that.


Besides, if you tested mDK on PTS & saw how much better it is against block builds & dmg shield builds now, you'd realize how ridiculous that childish complaining is.

Man you just love to pick fights with literally everyone on this forum. Relax buddy. Medium armor sucks but that doesn't mean you can compare power lash to the problems it suffers from other ***. Medium armor sucks because you need full 7 piece for 10% crit unlike light, 12% WD is butt cheeks compared to 4k pen, roll dodge/sprint cost is easier to get from CP trees, and yes because a lot is undodgeable these days but power lash fills a gap that the DK is missing because of a slew of previous nerfs. In the end I don't care that power lash can be dodged, I'll work around it like I have every other change in every other patch. I just hate that it's being tossed aside as if its a bug when it was designed this way because of how it's used. DKs aren't just upset at the power lash changes. They're upset at the constant promise of buffs and then having them revoked and turned into nerfs every patch. The situation isn't as black and white as everyone here, including you, is making it out to be. The fact of the matter is, the identity of the class is constantly being diluted and that is true of many classes these days.

Medium armor is in a bad spot because it's whole defense (dodge) get's nullified by so many skills. It hasn't a second layer of "health" in form of wards like LA in addition to healing. It hasn't high mitigation, max health, health recovery and healing like HA in addition to block. It only has dodge and run. Problem is that too much goes through dodge. Every channel, every AoE and even some spammables.

Think of it like this, and I don't write this to make every skill even but only for comparative means:
What would you think about frags (a proc based ST skill, not even a spam) going through block? Or if it even grants a dmg shield after using?
What if Assasin's Will (a proc absed ST skill, not even a spam) going through wards?
What if these skills don't have a single proc but a time window in which it can be used twice?

Do you see the fuss about Dive being undodgeable and therefore *** up dodge builds? What did the warden guys tell me? I should block or LOS.
Remember the fuss when everybody thought Oblivion Dmg + Infused + Torug's would kill the permablock and shield stack meta also along the way? Everyone was in uproar.
Or about how high you can get your healing debuffs with ease? At least LA still has shields an HA SnB builds can relent to block on top of high mitigation mitigation.
Or how Soul Assault with being undodgeable, fast ticking (stam draining by block) and 70% snaring (making it hard to LOS) is an I-win button against medium? What was the counter? "Don't stand in the open" or "Don't wear medium".
How shield breaker LA spam was a stupid move for everyone with a ward? "Have a HoT running"

Oh it feels so great to have the own defense removed, doesn't it?
SO yes, the medium armor problem is that so much goes through dodge and they have no buffed second layer of defense. And Power Lash is just a part of the problem. If you can't wait for that guy to finish his dodge, it's your l2p issue then. If you don't see how you can hit non-dodgers twice as often and how healing length got buffed, it's because you don't want to see the benefits. It's a justified nerf for mDK against dodge-rollers. It's a buff for mDK against non-dodgers. Therefore it's merely a shift.

Only thing that it stupid about it in PvP is that you can't change targets fast because the cooldown is on you. If the cooldown would be on the guy who dodged, no other DK could PL him in that time. Would that be better?

I get the trouble in PvE, I really do. But don't act like one skill in between all our undodgeable *** will be the death sentence for mDKs in PvP.

Sincerely,
someone who plays medium armor builds and also mag DK

Listen buddy. You should read more carefully before shouting L2P issues because I've stated several times that I will always adapt an overcome. My position is that ZOS continues to nerf DK to the point where it's just warden on hard mode. The class has lost its identity. All the dks were saying last week that power lash proc chance needed to be changed that having it spammable was broken. So stop trying to say we're just whining and that we need to L2P. Yeah medium armor sucks but power lash is designed to be undodgeable so ZOS labeling it a bug is *** slap in the face. It's a hard counter to roll just like fear, rune prison, fossilze, etc are a hard counter to block. It's way different than cliff racer. It's designed around the idea that in order to proc it you put the enemy in a place where they are encouraged to roll instead of block, etc. Why should high mobility classes get to weave in and out of combat with a slow lumbering DK without any impunity? You act as if power lash has ZERO counterplay and it has multiple ways to counter it. It's not birds where youre getting it spammed on you endlessly while you try to find line of sight. It's a proc, which is predictable, you know when its going to be used.

Literally every attack from mag Dk is undodgeable, just saying. I just don't understand the magicka Dk community, none of you actually understands that it currently is ZERO fun to fight against a magicka Dk and all your suggestions seem to ignore this point. Mag Dks want Wings to be super strong again while ignoring that it would take away the fun from projectile based builds to play against Dks. They want to have all abilities undodgeable and ignore that it is zero fun to fight against as a rollbuild. Fighting against a block casting pressure monster is already no fun, it is even less fun with these hardcounter mechanics.
It's unlikely that medium armor gets buffed because of Nightblades: It's no fun to fight against a Cloakspammer (and that's why many Nightblades would be fine with a Cloak nerf if medium armor gets a buff). Same as Sorc: It's unlikely that the class gets buffed unless shieldstacking is fixed, because nobody has fun fighting against a shieldspammer and many sorcs want to make stacking Harness and Hardened Ward impossible.
Now to Dks: It's in my opinion the class which is by far the least fun to play against (exactly the same level of "fun" as fighting against super tanky heavy armor high weapondamage builds, defile cheeser or against petsorcs - but I'm playing a rollbuild unless I'm super pissed and switch to heavy armor so I'm biased here) but basically no Dk here understands why and instead of making suggestions that might make mag Dk even better overall you guys stick to this "I'm supposed to hardcounter you, l2p, stop crying" agenda and just want to be the bad guy who nobody likes and nobody wants to fight against. Think about it. It's unlikely that ZOS will buff mag Dk as long as it would negatively affect the majority of the playerbase - heck some of you guys want to be able to hardcounter every projectile build, hardcounter every rollbuild and are able to spam 5x Power Lash in a row with Skoria/Zaan on top of that against pure meele builds (reminds me of the statement from a League of Legends developer: "We rather destroy one champion before he destroys the game").

Every comment I see coming from you has atleast one reductio ad absurdum logical fallacy. We never said we want all our skills to be undodgeable. Make all of them dodgeable apart from powerlash and we're good. The thing that sets powerlash in a different position than our other skills is that the way to proc it PROVOKES a immediate rolldodge, meaning that the miss rate on powerlash will be A LOT higher than any other skill in this entire game.

And no, we're not supposed to hard counter you, but the reason we do hard counter you exceeds the reality of powerlash being undodgeable. The issue has a lot more to do with the current state of medium armor. The mDK community that you're trying to bash so hard right now were the FIRST ONES to call for a nerf to mDK when 3.3.0 came out due to how strong and broken it was/

And when the l2p issue comes around, we're basically saying that stamblades (which seem to be the real martyr you guys are bringing forth) have tools at their disposal - and one of them is what could be argued to be the best ult in the game. There are counterplays to mDKs, if you guys have been following legends tournaments you'd probably see that.

We DON'T WANT mDKs to roam Cyrodiil like in 1.5, all we're asking for is for logical buffs/nerfs. MDKs have been hit the hardest with inumerous nerfs, like heavy armor, battle roar, blocking etc... We're tired of ZOS removing and nerfing us without giving us something back. The argument that mDKs should have an entire skill changed due to it being a counter of a specific type of build (medium armorstamblade) is ludicrous. It's basically saying that wings should be furtherly nerfed 'cause it counters destro long-ranged magblades. I'm all down for making swallow soul unreflectable for instance, but nerfing wings will have an impact that resonates much further than a simple one on one encounter between a mNB v mDK. To exemplify this I'll bring up the change to defile due to TK. TK was very strong and ZOS looked for a manner to nerf that and instead of nerfing TK directly, they buffed Defile in a way that affects everyone, not only people that used to run TK.

OBS.: Please don't say lash is healing us for double the value right now. I'm pretty sure that's a bug/glitch as it hasn't been posted anywhere the patch notes. It'll most likely be fixed next week.

@DDuke

You are right you have missed something. Playing a class for 3 weeks doesn't make you a "all knowing" expert of the class and it's clear you are only here to disrupt any sort of conversation on possibly changing flame lash to be close to how it is on live. No one here is asking for unlimited powerlashes, but we are asking that it be kept close to how it is currently. You are pointing fingers at players like @krathos who has played the class almost since launch, @Quantum_V who has played the class for years, and various other people who are veterans of playing the class in open world PvP. All of these players play the class at high-level of skill and have a great understanding of the class. I can tell you that @krathos spent almost a year playing stamina nightblade, and he was able to do fine in medium armor against "powerlash" because he would block it. From that statement I think he would have a much greater understanding of stamblade than you do magicka dk. Playing magicka dk with a meme-resto ulti spam build for 3 weeks doesn't qualify as being an "expert of the class". You cannot base the survivability on a class solely on a defensive ulti that is strong on EVERY class.

Although, if you were on a stamblade forum I would be much more inclined to listen to you, it seems you are a three year veteran of the class according to the majority of your uploads on youtube:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285519184446750722/405760813173964810/unknown.png

I would like to ask you please stop telling players who have been playing the class at a high-level for years, that their request to keep powerlash similar to LIVE is childish.

I don't know why you continue to troll this forum with comments such as "chains is a great skill" and medium armor "trollking blades" are helpless.

I'm sure your feedback would be greatly appreciated on the nightblade forum, go ahead and tell them that incap should not apply defile I'm sure they would be happy with that.

**HOW TO MAKE POWERLASH GREAT AGAIN**

1) Make it undodgeable

Reasons:
a) Magicka DK's have no execute
b) It rewarded players who lined up their burst properly
c) With a cooldown it will cancled out when others set players off balance and enemy dodges
d) It's melee range....... birds is an undodgeable ranged spammable...

2) Put the cooldown on the target (Per User)

Reasons:
a) It will allow multiple mag dks to proc their powerlash on one target if it is availible
b) it will not punish mag dks for others setting someone off balance, and an enemy dodging causing the magicka dk to lose their proc on powerlash.

Is it just me or did a whole page of comments just get deleted? Someone must have said something that was true that ZOS didn't like...#illuminati confirmed?

DDuke wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Like I said, I will adapt and overcome any change to the class and the lash change isnt my concern, it's the constant nerfing by zenimax every patch. Make lash dodgeable but give me back my battle roar from pre-morrowind. Stop making siphoner reduce stuff like battle roar. Give petrify 15m range again. It's constant baseless nerfs with no reasoning. Power Lash has been undodgeable for four years why the change? Is it not embarrassing to just say "it was a bug" when its been there for four years and the base skill itself used to be undodgeable? What's next? There's little rhyme or reason behind any of these changes. Why change off balance now when you arent prepared for class balance changes until the next chapter? We're sick of these random changes and the direct and indirect nerfs. Why change power lash but not cliff racer? Why make DK a watered down warden which is basically is now? Go look at the DK passives. Compare them to any other class. They're a joke. Anything they bring to group can be done better by somebody else in both PvE and PvP. Theyre good in duels sure. They hard counter medium armor wearers who dont run troll king ***, sure. But everywhere else they're a complete joke.

To be fair, I don't think mDK is a "watered down Warden" - Wardens actually have relatively rough time uncloaking NBs for example as they've typically only Shalks as cloak breaker & when a NB can cloak those birds a NB can survive.

mDK is a different beast when you've got gap closer & volatile armor slotted - not even Clown King wearers survive if they're dodge roll builds & not heavy armor.


That said, I wouldn't mind if Cliff Racers were dodgeable - NBs can deal with them, but other medium armor builds are SOL.


Oh, and I'm still curious about the word choice "nerf" when Power Lash heal was increased to 4s duration & you can get two of them off per Power Lash (pretty much guaranteed vs dmg shield builds & block builds that don't dodge roll).
Look at the big picture, you're only seeing one aspect of the changes.

Yeah I always say I prefer volatile over ice fortress. Detect pots are trash and if a Stam blade wants to escape my warden he will.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, even if I had played the class for only 3 weeks and managed to create one of the strongest open world builds in the current meta while other mDKs who had played since the beta cry about "lack of mobility" and whatnot, I'd be worried.

Are you claiming you made one of the strongest openworld builds in the current meta? If your video is composed of the best clips you got with that build, I'm kinda worried about your defenition of 'one of the strongest open world build in the current meta'.



Not saying it means anything, but as you have to bring this up... /played 82 days on my DC magDK, that's not adding up my EP magDK.

Eric wrobel is here.

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

All you MDKs are playing in 2018 while im out here in the year 3000 running fwd momentum and speed pots on my magdk.

... somebody please give us something for mobility.

I'm currently running speed pots and purge in sticky situations. Doesn't really effect sustain on a destro resto argonian that much. I'm just careful with purge at the moment and don't spam it. I almost was gonna try your build but I think my damage/burst/sustain will be better because of destro and skoria but your mobility is consistently better. Plus I need to save my gold. Just need a snare removal in our own tooltip

wings should remove snares or even better fragmented should remove snares for the whole group.