Make Crystal Frags Great Again!

Minalan · January 2018

Can we please get the 10% damage bonus back on crystal fragments? (Buff from 10% to 20% total)

It’s currently so bad, most of the PVE/trials crowd has dropped it off of their bars as a complete DPS loss. Our signature skill is a waste of bar space. Thanks for that.

The frags projectile is slow, it’s reflectable, dodgable, and blockable. Every single counter play in the game works against this skill.

Frags are objectively worse in every way than stone fist or wrecking blow, because it has no utility in the skill itself. Just the proc, which doesn’t work 66% of the time.

We’re okay with this, but it should do more than 10% additional damage. Either buff this skill, or please show us all why this is impossible. You’ve done the sorcerer class a disservice the last few patches, it’s time to start fixing what’s wrong with our class.

Chilly-McFreeze · January 2018

Agree. But as a PvP guy I'd rather have my stun back. The only reason they nerfed Frags was to make Blast more appealing. If they want people to use Blast, they should make them a stam morph.

Feanor · January 2018

I don’t want the damage back, and I can get by without the stun. But either the projectile needs to travel faster or the skill needs a secondary utility effect. Seeing that Sorcs have no native access to defile other than weapon enchants I’d go with major defile for 3 seconds, or if that’s too much, minor defile for 6 seconds. Another candidate would be major breach.

Edit: @Minalan Good luck weathering the storm that will break out seeing you want *gasp* a Sorc buff.

Dracane · January 2018

I wouldn't even slot it anymore if it dealt 30% more.
Bring the knockback back or get out. I have no space for a reflectable mediocre burst ability on my pet sorc bars.
The only point of frags was, the opportunity it offered with the stun. Sure you can still use it with other stuns, but that's 1 bar slot for an ability that offers nothing besides some damage.

Glad I gave up soloing on my mag Sorc and have my Stam DK pet who stuns enemies for me.
Crystal shard was the core pillar of Sorcerers since the game exists ! How can you be outrageous enough to just nerf it like this. This must be the heaviest nerf in all of history. 10% damage reduction was enough to silence the crybabies.

NordSwordnBoard · January 2018

I'd even say make CFrag instant all the time, like a class destructive touch for more damage (than dtouch has) due to lacking the stun now. Tweak the damage down some if needed. If defensive rune wasn't already on my OL bar, I'd consider its other morph to replace frag. Instead, frag just sits there being mediocre without a good replacement- especially on a DW build.

I eliminated frag from my PvE build because with Master staff destructive touch is better (for me) for a smooth, reliable rotation.

edit for clarity

PhoenixGrey · January 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Can we please get the 10% damage bonus back on crystal fragments? (Buff from 10% to 20% total)

The class needs a few more buffs besides the one you suggested to reach a competitive state in PVP.

I don't think ZOS will buff atleast for the next couple of patches until they realize folks have stopped playing the class completely. Majority still believe the class is OP and buffing it will trigger a massive outrage in the community which will be too hot to handle for ZOS

Camb0Sl1ce · January 2018

I would like the extra damage back as well, as far as the stun goes its nice not giving cc immunity to an add so the tank or mag dk can chain them in. Utility? Minor prophecy is nice buff to mag dds in your group.

Minalan · January 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Can we please get the 10% damage bonus back on crystal fragments? (Buff from 10% to 20% total)

The class needs a few more buffs besides the one you suggested to reach a competitive state in PVP.

I don't think ZOS will buff atleast for the next couple of patches until they realize folks have stopped playing the class completely. Majority still believe the class is OP and buffing it will trigger a massive outrage in the community which will be too hot to handle for ZOS

Baby steps my friend. Baby steps. ZOS said on their live stream that they read these and bring them to @ZOS_Wrobel

Right now the dueling guild I joined just created a Sorc class because we don’t have a chance of winning anymore in open class.

Scales is a hard counter. Shimmering shield is completely over the top, it’s spammable, free, and eats all projectiles.

Wrecking blow empowers, stone fist stuns and gives resources. I just want the damage back on our signature skill.

Come on ZOS. Next PTS patch. Crystal fragments gets a 20% proc total damage bonus! Make it happen!

Lord_Eomer · January 2018

Its not going to happen anyhow as still frags crit hit 25k+ easily in PVE and stun is useless in PVE.

PVP community is very salty and will always disagree to make Frags great again!

Feanor · January 2018

Also I think Sorc issues go beyond one specific skill. I’d like less toggles and more options. For PvP it’s Crushing Shock - Frags - Curse - Fury with Rune Cage in the mix or else you play a Pet Sorc or the old mine camp Atro. It’s the most one dimensional class on the game.

Zer0oo · January 2018

First the combat team does never undo idiotic changes and secondly there would be so many forum QQ-threads if they would do it that they will not go through with it. It was funny that players are so focused on hating mag sorc that they even use dps phrases from stam sorc to say mag sorc is top dps.

So every mag sorc now more or less has to grind dsa for a master destro and just ignore every build that has an reflect.

Lord-Otto · January 2018

It's way more complicated.

Stun and damage were not everything. It was the ability to open a burst window. Every proper burst combo uses a form of damage CC. To keep up the burst damage. Kena even advocates Incap over Soul Harvest for the stun on magblade.

We now have a spammable dps move that also stuns. Granted, you have that staff or build around not having one. With said staff, the burst combo remains at same damage sum. The nerf to Frag damage is a direct, malevolent stunt to sorc burst. That is very bad balancing, as sorc burst has the most counterplay and sorcs have very low sustained damage. Powerful burst is essential, and Frag damage nerf unjustified.

Wait! It gets worse!
Even with the Master staff, there is still an important detail. With previous Frag CC, the stun came at the END of the burst ccombo.That allowed you to squeeze in another last attacke, like an execute, while your opponent was still breaking free and just in time before your shields expire. This is gone now. You CC before the Frag, so a player can block or dodge the execute after the burst.

The conclusion is that Frags not only need their old damage restored - they actually need even more damage on top of that to compensate for the stated issues! I am talking about Spectral Bow damage coefficient. Frags have easier counterplay and provide no additional buffs, so they can have the same damage as bow, even with their higher proc uptime. This would also be another PvE buff, where magsorc DDs are a bit behind right now.

Minalan · January 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Its not going to happen anyhow as still frags crit hit 25k+ easily in PVE and stun is useless in PVE.

PVP community is very salty and will always disagree to make Frags great again!

The PVP community never wants to see a class they don’t play get a small buff. That’s not a good reason not to do it.

Frags hits closer to 6-7K in PVP, if it even hits. DK have scales up. Warden has shimmering shield up. Other have the shield ult. Stam players have heavy armor and impen. Another 10% won’t make it ridiculous over the top, but every bit helps.

I know it won’t fix our class, but it’s a step in the right direction. It’s ridiculous that we all have to farm VDSA to use destructive clench, which hits nearly as hard as frags (especially on vampires), knocks back, and leaves a fire DOT. It’s objectively better than frags.

Fix our signature skill!

NyassaV · January 2018

Yeah... That change was stupid. I've been saying the stun was the issue for so long and it took them forever to address it

PhoenixGrey · January 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Baby steps my friend. Baby steps. ZOS said on their live stream that they read these and bring them to @ZOS_Wrobel

That's exactly my problem now. They read too much and that's what got the class nerfed in the first place.

They need to trust their own judgement on this because the community is still on the nerf train for sorcs. We are outnumbered my friend just like solo PVP

and this is a situation where our skills cannot compensate for nerfs

But a list of suggestions which will never be heard
1. Frags return to their initial state
2. Ball of lightning absorbs all incoming projectiles to a duration similar to what warden has on shimmering shield
3. Boundless storm grants snare immunity for the same duration as forward momentum
4. Rune prison cost decreased by 50%
5. Dawnbreaker gets a magical damage morph

xaraan · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I don’t want the damage back, and I can get by without the stun. But either the projectile needs to travel faster or the skill needs a secondary utility effect. Seeing that Sorcs have no native access to defile other than weapon enchants I’d go with major defile for 3 seconds, or if that’s too much, minor defile for 6 seconds. Another candidate would be major breach.

Edit: @Minalan Good luck weathering the storm that will break out seeing you want *gasp* a Sorc buff.

Actually, minor breech might be good with it, would stack well in raids with people already using major. Often the minor breeches are harder to come by.

Destyran · January 2018

I disagree this nerf made sorcs better with their new stun and builds. They don’t need a frag buff.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2018

Please just give them their stun back. The patch was such a huge nerf for magsorcs who doesn't have a master Destro staff.

Dracane · January 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Baby steps my friend. Baby steps. ZOS said on their live stream that they read these and bring them to @ZOS_Wrobel

That's exactly my problem now. They read too much and that's what got the class nerfed in the first place.

They need to trust their own judgement on this because the community is still on the nerf train for sorcs. We are outnumbered my friend just like solo PVP and this is a situation where our skills cannot compensate for nerfs

But a list of suggestions which will never be heard
1. Frags return to their initial state
2. Ball of lightning absorbs all incoming projectiles to a duration similar to what warden has on shimmering shield
3. Boundless storm grants snare immunity for the same duration as forward momentum
4. Rune prison cost decreased by 50%
5. Dawnbreaker gets a magical damage morph

If these changes would happen, I would be very happy.

Dracane · January 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Please just give them their stun back. The patch was such a huge nerf for magsorcs who doesn't have a master Destro staff.

This master touch is so overrated, I can't hear it anymore. I block everyone instantly who says, that it hits hard or something similar. No, it does not. It hits for even less than force pulse.

Ohtimbar · January 2018

Agreed. I don't use even use frags anymore.

Joy_Division · January 2018

My main is not a sorcerer.

Revert Frags back to it's original state before the nerfs.

It's fine that classes have good abilities as long as I have my own.

Game was so much better and more interesting then.

Beardimus · January 2018

Destyran wrote: »

I disagree this nerf made sorcs better with their new stun and builds. They don’t need a frag buff.

LOL, Nerf that make sorcs better? So now we need another alot for a stun we already had?

If you think Sorcs are tough then your stuck in the past. They well down the list and this simple change would bring back some balance.

Minalan · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Please just give them their stun back. The patch was such a huge nerf for magsorcs who doesn't have a master Destro staff.

This master touch is so overrated, I can't hear it anymore. I block everyone instantly who says, that it hits hard or something similar. No, it does not. It hits for even less than force pulse.

@Malamar1229 has the tooltip up to 10K with the master staff, so half that with battle spirit, then add in fire damage against vampires (read: half of Cyrodiil), then throw in the DOT.

So. It’s competitive, but you’re right. It’s definitely not an end all. It’s reflectable, where FP isn’t. It does only one element, so it can’t proc minor vulnerability. It’s also fodder for shimmering shield, which FP isn’t.

Plus, I know a few dual wield Sorcs still tearing it up out there. Bless you guys for sticking with it during our worst.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Frags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.

NyassaV · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Frags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.

streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that

Lord-Otto · January 2018

Hollery wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Frags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.

streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that

Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.

Morgul667 · January 2018

Crystal frag is an ill advised morph as per the skill advisors o.O

Vaoh · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

My main is not a sorcerer.

Revert Frags back to it's original state before the nerfs.

It's fine that classes have good abilities as long as I have my own.

Game was so much better and more interesting then.

This is the way ZOS makes room for CP increases - if they don't nerf every class constantly then we'll actually start feeling stronger instead of weaker after a patch

It's getting close to the anniversary of Homestead, and my Mag Sorc has lost a tremendous amount of DPS.

Emma_Overload · January 2018

I would rather have the damage back than the stun.

Vaoh · January 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Frags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.

streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that

Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.

In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.