Was the Storm Atronach Ninja nerfed ?

Vaoh · January 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I thought that as a Sorc I would finally get to use a class-based Ult in a trial -_- rip

Negate -> vAA.

Where in AA? Atm I can't remember ever seeing a single Negate Magic in trials except for Gargoyles in vHRC HM.

Vaoh · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

It's not even just Sorc though. Sorc gets so many nerfs lately yet were still not even worse off than Templar or DK.

I really wish things would go back to the way they used to be. Bolt Escape not having a stacking cost. Shields having 20sec durations. Crystal Frags being able to CC enemies. These made the game fun and allowed for versatility in skill usage and playstyle. Even if reverting those huge nerfs would require something like a cost increase on Bolt Escape it'd be fine.

Casting your shields every 6sec is unfun. The removal of the CC from Crystal Frags ruined what was left of solo DW Sorc - now the only "1vX" you'll manage is just from being lucky enough to fight really bad players who are likely low CP and do not snare, root, debuff, CC, dodge your telegraphed burst, use cost poisons, etc. Sorcs are instead funneled into using Destructive Touch (meaning Destro Staff).... which also means you need the Master Destro, causing you to build a specific way. The cost increase on Bolt Escape makes it so you will burn most of your Magicka to cast Bolt Escape after 1-2 failed casts, since the skill will completely fail to work on many inclines/doorways but still drastically increase the next cast of it for 4sec. This skill is about all Magicka Sorc has left going for it now since snares and Stamina-based burst dmg are so powerful atm.

Same goes for other classes: Cloak being reliable even if the purge was a bit OP, Templar Sweeps WORKING since it used to base itself on camera direction, Blazing Shield builds I hated used to at least be a type of viable build despite maybe needing a small nerf, DK getting their 4+ projectile Wings back, DK passive resource sustain getting adjusted (the "this is a buff if" patch), gap closers working, the old Surge skill, Rune Cage and Agony being 30sec hard CCs, better sustain from Light/Medium armor passives that were nerfed heavily in Morrowind, Trapping Webs becoming a completely useless Stamina skill, DW being viable for Magicka DPS... there are so many more things I could go over.

Nerfing is ofc very necessary in all games when balancing, but why do the nerfs have to entirely destroy playstyles and often hurt the entire class?

Just taking Blazing Shield builds for example: They used to be very effective but were *useless* if not attacked and barely were a threat if they attacked you. The nerf took them from a bit too strong to completely horrible, and made the skill itself especially ineffective for other builds which did not stack purely into Health.

It's always a long list of nerfs whenever there's patch notes

leothedino · January 2018

For a start, I swear, it's only the PVPers that complain and whine the most. For as long as I have played ESO it's been:

PVP:

A player is mad that another class beat them in cyrodiil/a bg.
That player comes to the forums and complains about X, Y and Z abilities of that other class.
ZoS nerf those abilities to make sure they keep their "precious" PVP player base.
The end-game raiders and PVE'ers log in the next day, after a fun evening of raiding the night before, to notice their abilities got swatted.

ZoS do me a favour, deny these whining PVPers whatever they want to be denied -when- they enter Cyrodiil or a Battleground. Allow the rest of us to enjoy the game, and a choice of skills and abilities as you originally intended for us?

As for this topic, I honestly hope Atro becames usable. I'd love a little sorc theme in combat, watching 'Sparky' come on down and tear up some enemies. Heavens knows I am sick of destro ult and meteor.

Dracane · January 2018

SodanTok wrote: »

Alright, so what I calculated (hopefully close to the proper value). The atronach zap has scaling on PTS close to this:
stat*0.04995904995 + damage*0.52527075812

nothing abnormal here, uses both highest values, it has stat to damage ratio of 10.5

as for live. I have no clue and someone would have to get that one. I tried to calculate it the same way. Assuming it simply takes average of max stam + max magicka and then highest damage (well, to be sure used the same spell and weapon damage in case it takes average too) and the numbers did not add up at all.
stat*0.06435643564 + damage*0.36174496644
With great possibility low level scaling was factor in this, so if someone has clean slate sorc on max lvl, they can try to verify

//edit: actually it makes sense. Why would they give it ratio of 10.5 when they use the average of max stats. So if no low lvl scaling is affecting this, then yes, it was nerfed changed.

Which confirms, that its base damage must have been greatly reduced, right ?
It appears more and more unlikely to me, that this is a bug.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Dark deal (initial time reduce) curse (echo) pets (various) shields (While back they were unrefreshable) and this maybe. Off the top of my head.

However, last PTS rune got a "16%" (IIRC) cost increase, that was actually much more than 16%, the next weeks patch notes, they changed that number to 75%. So who knows, could be a nerf in waiting.

Beardimus · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

ZOS will only stop nerfing sorcs when they reach the magicaDK 1.6 kind of unplayable.

To be honest ZOS could remove the class and people would still post on here asking to Nerf Sorc or wards ate their homework or something

f047ys3v3n · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Welcome to what Templars have been going through for years.

Patch notes indicate a buff. ZoS implements an undocumented nerf to counterbalance said buff.

It's just how ZoS rolls.

Weren't the Templar nerfs just a side effect of the way the new CP system calculations are done? Like with the sweeps and the beam? At least I thought that's that what it was, I could be wrong.

Those weren't strictly nerfs. Just bugs/inconsistencies that have been around since Morrowind, fixed for other classes and still not yet fixed on the PTS.

Was more talking about things like when Zos proudly unveiled Major Mending as a Templar buff, even though its bonus healing (25%) was less than what the Templar old passive gave (30%). And now templars no longer even have Major Mending (or their old passive).

Or the Spear Shards "buff" which amounted to the loss of the stun/disorient.

So it does not surprise me at all what the OP reported: I'm very suspicious when Zos announces a buff for anything because they usually make some additional changes somewhere that amounts to a nerf.

Don't forget the loss of CC on puncturing sweeps. Templar got them nerfs fast and furious when they came. It was enough to shake me right quick and I never wen't back.

They dole out the nerfs slower and more constant like to me on my NB. That way I don't notice the water temperature rise. Then, one day, I realize that I have no NB ultis on any bar in PVP or PVE, I'm not running sap essence or siphoning strikes anymore, and my utility heals with funnel health no longer amount to much for me or anybody else. Then I wonder when it all happened.

starkerealm · January 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I thought that as a Sorc I would finally get to use a class-based Ult in a trial -_- rip

Negate -> vAA.

Where in AA? Atm I can't remember ever seeing a single Negate Magic in trials except for Gargoyles in vHRC HM.

On the chainspinners. At least, I think that's the name. Usually they get called far more colorful things in Discord.

pieratsos · January 2018

So another class ability getting nerfed because of CP. Where have i seen this before.

SodanTok · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Alright, so what I calculated (hopefully close to the proper value). The atronach zap has scaling on PTS close to this:
stat*0.04995904995 + damage*0.52527075812

nothing abnormal here, uses both highest values, it has stat to damage ratio of 10.5

as for live. I have no clue and someone would have to get that one. I tried to calculate it the same way. Assuming it simply takes average of max stam + max magicka and then highest damage (well, to be sure used the same spell and weapon damage in case it takes average too) and the numbers did not add up at all.
stat*0.06435643564 + damage*0.36174496644
With great possibility low level scaling was factor in this, so if someone has clean slate sorc on max lvl, they can try to verify

//edit: actually it makes sense. Why would they give it ratio of 10.5 when they use the average of max stats. So if no low lvl scaling is affecting this, then yes, it was nerfed changed.

Which confirms, that its base damage must have been greatly reduced, right ?
It appears more and more unlikely to me, that this is a bug.

To be honest, it does not make sense so disregard the 2nd 'equation', because the PTS one leads to better tooltip in every possible situation (basically for any magicka build that has 30% more magicka than average of stam and magicka)

Better explanation is I am doing something wrong when calculating these, because if I recalculate it, it is the same answer

What is funny, there is skill coefficient for atronach zap on https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php and it is too similiar to what i get (yet totally different) so I am totally lost

Izaki · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Rune Prison like a couple of months ago.

Waffennacht · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Dark deal (initial time reduce) curse (echo) pets (various) shields (While back they were unrefreshable) and this maybe. Off the top of my head.

However, last PTS rune got a "16%" (IIRC) cost increase, that was actually much more than 16%, the next weeks patch notes, they changed that number to 75%. So who knows, could be a nerf in waiting.

Dark deal sucks on live ATM, if they changed their mind a reverted a potential buff I don't count it
Echo does nothing for PvP, and PvE can be done with a broom
Pets like actually doing something while taking up two slots ... I suppose making something absolutely redonkulious horrible slightly better a buff... Sure
That was never live on console and therefore I don't consider a buff

Izaki wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Rune Prison like a couple of months ago.

This was a nerf. Before you could lock down an opponent and they would be forced to take Curse + any dot for 22 seconds. Just because no one saw the build doesn't mean it was a buff

Vaoh · January 2018

Izaki wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Rune Prison like a couple of months ago.

Depends how you used it. The only good thing about the current Rune Cage is that it goes through block. Helps pull off the unfair (imo) combo with little counterplay of Curse -> Meteor -> guaranteed CC -> anything else. Basically all good Sorc builds that are capable of surviving against multiple decent players and don’t just build for massive burst through that one combo are slotting Master Destro for Destructive Touch now. It’s cheap, strong, knocks back, and has a good DoT. Rune Cage is 75% more expensive than before and does no damage, though it helps setup that specific combo and CC blocking enemies. Sorc skill bars are so full of necessary skills though there’s so little room to move stuff around.....

I liked the old version that let you lock enemies down and sill deal DoT damage - it was especially great on a DW Stam Sorc.

So not necessarily a buff. It’s a lot like the new Agony skill, in that it’s better or worse depending on the build.

pieratsos · January 2018

Izaki wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Rune Prison like a couple of months ago.

Rune prison also got a 70% cost increase. Its so OP now that the majority of sorcs prefer to farm vDSA to get a master destro and use flame reach instead of playing with rune cage. You went full potato right there.

SammyFable · January 2018

This thread got me thinking. From my testing on the PTS these first two weeks the atro dealt pretty decent DPS. So I compared live atro and pts atro. Here are the results:

Live:

PTS:

As you can see, on the pts it's far stronger getting about 1k more DPS. Even crits hit for 3k more damage.

Feanor · January 2018

It’s

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread got me thinking. From my testing on the PTS these first two weeks the atro dealt pretty decent DPS. So I compared live atro and pts atro. Here are the results:
Live:PTS:
As you can see, on the pts it's far stronger getting about 1k more DPS. Even crits hit for 3k more damage.

Interesting, but that’s not the issue I guess. If you want a stationary DPS ultimate the Atro still loses to Meteor or Elemental Rage.

Dracane · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

It’s

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread got me thinking. From my testing on the PTS these first two weeks the atro dealt pretty decent DPS. So I compared live atro and pts atro. Here are the results:
Live:PTS:
As you can see, on the pts it's far stronger getting about 1k more DPS. Even crits hit for 3k more damage.

Interesting, but that’s not the issue I guess. If you want a stationary DPS ultimate the Atro still loses to Meteor or Elemental Rage.

That's true, since the Atronach can only deal single target dps and will thus be outshined by any other ultimate and as for single target dps, is outshined by soul assault.

Feanor · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

It’s

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread got me thinking. From my testing on the PTS these first two weeks the atro dealt pretty decent DPS. So I compared live atro and pts atro. Here are the results:
Live:PTS:
As you can see, on the pts it's far stronger getting about 1k more DPS. Even crits hit for 3k more damage.

Interesting, but that’s not the issue I guess. If you want a stationary DPS ultimate the Atro still loses to Meteor or Elemental Rage.

That's true, since the Atronach can only deal single target dps and will thus be outshined by any other ultimate and as for single target dps, is outshined by soul assault.

Ideally the Atro would not have to deliver the DPS that Elemental Rage or Meteor bring to the board if it made up the gap with utility. I never understood why the Major Berserk does not get granted to the Sorc but to the player using the synergy (and the Atro itself). Likewise, the stun would be an interesting effect, but it’s useless on boss fights in PvE and in PvP the area that is affected is way to small (so it’s nice only on choke points or in close quarter combat).

I’d suggest not simply increasing the damage but to give the Atro more and better secondary perks. It would then become an interesting choice between more DPS of other ultimates or the better secondary effects of the Atro.

Dracane · January 2018

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread got me thinking. From my testing on the PTS these first two weeks the atro dealt pretty decent DPS. So I compared live atro and pts atro. Here are the results:
Live:PTS:
As you can see, on the pts it's far stronger getting about 1k more DPS. Even crits hit for 3k more damage.

This is not possible. How did you do this ?
I have tested any possible constellation and the Atronach was barely better on pts, hitting for around 600 damage more per tick. Which is not all too much.

But that is, as Feanor stated, not even the issue. Its base damage is still significantly lower than on low and the CP just compensate for this a bit.

olsborg · January 2018

Atronach needed buffs not nerfs. Its been weak since forever. Waste of space on bar

Izaki · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Dark deal (initial time reduce) curse (echo) pets (various) shields (While back they were unrefreshable) and this maybe. Off the top of my head.

However, last PTS rune got a "16%" (IIRC) cost increase, that was actually much more than 16%, the next weeks patch notes, they changed that number to 75%. So who knows, could be a nerf in waiting.

Dark deal sucks on live ATM, if they changed their mind a reverted a potential buff I don't count it
Echo does nothing for PvP, and PvE can be done with a broom
Pets like actually doing something while taking up two slots ... I suppose making something absolutely redonkulious horrible slightly better a buff... Sure
That was never live on console and therefore I don't consider a buff

Izaki wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I guarantee you it's intended, when have they ever just straight up improved a sorc ability?

Rune Prison like a couple of months ago.

This was a nerf. Before you could lock down an opponent and they would be forced to take Curse + any dot for 22 seconds. Just because no one saw the build doesn't mean it was a buff

It was a nerf against peope who didn't know how to manage their stamina or didn't know that you could break free from a stun. AKA it was a nerf against potatoes. It was buffed against literally everyone else. And it was 19.8 seconds, not 22 btw.

Deloth_Vyrr · January 2018

This has to be a bug, no way they intentionally nerfed an already useless ulti

Dracane · January 2018

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

This has to be a bug, no way they intentionally nerfed an already useless ulti

I'm convinced they would have let us know by now if this was the case.

Vaoh · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

This has to be a bug, no way they intentionally nerfed an already useless ulti

I'm convinced they would have let us know by now if this was the case.

Still no word yet? Why is it so difficult to get a single response regarding a huge change they made and a possible bug? This’ll make the difference whether or not Sorcs slot it for PvE.

ZOS_GinaBruno · January 2018

Hey everyone, just letting you know we've seen this thread and should have an answer for you soon (if it's bugged or working as intended).

Cinbri · January 2018

@Aedaryl

Dracane · January 2018

Wow, thank you dear.

SirCritical · January 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Should check the tanking topic too.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

@Aedaryl

Thanks, I already theoricrafted my heavy armor stamina 1h&S/2h character, now I'm waiting the answer to know if I need to farm the gear

Gothren · January 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just letting you know we've seen this thread and should have an answer for you soon (if it's bugged or working as intended).

you are the best