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Continued use of body morphing in costumes is not nice

  • Gorak
    Gorak
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    Some of the crown store costumes definitely have a slimming effect on my toons. It is something that has bothered me to the point where I no longer use the costumes. Several of the cs outfits make the female toons look way too thin in the hips and waist. Even when I goof around and put my hefty dark elf in the graht climber's skirt and top, his butt disappears.
    I want a raven avatar, please.
    PC NA; DC ftw
  • swippy
    swippy
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    Recremen wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    I really don't understand how people cannot see the difference. its in your face glaring. (as for the dress, I just tell myself that my girls are wearing extremely tight waist trainer corsets :P but yeah, it would be nice if their bodies actualy looked like their bodies).

    and honestly? /pointed look

    its not about "staring at a female ass all day" its about you know paying attention to details and I don't know, not being artistically blind?

    @Linaleah

    As the OP, it's actually unsurprising and expected that some people won't be able to see the difference. Much like how different people have different capacity for color perception due to anatomical differences in the eye, some folks have different capacity for perceiving geometric features. It's completely natural and nothing we should get bent out of shape over.

    And then, of course, there are the trolls. Can't do anything about that except thank them for bumping this Very Important Thread back up to the top. ;)

    yeah that's what i was about to say too. some people haven't developed their visual cortex and are just comfortable with their visually dull lives. or maybe they just have awful vision due to inferior genetics? either way, the types of people who can be bored at art galleries are unlikely to have meaningful contributions on this topic. i guess just be glad that they're on an internet forum where they're harmless and can be ignored.

    i wonder what kind of coding it would be that messes this all up too. i know i've changed diet and exercise patterns to fit clothes better, but these avatars have already been customized down to the last detail. having to purchase an appearance change token to look your best in your new favorite costume seems kind of excessive. it's certainly not going to be a priority issue for the majority of the development team, but it does seem worthwhile to set the Crown Store designers and a couple coders on it so that players can have what they expected when they spent their Crown support.
  • magictucktuck
    magictucktuck
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    This one does not understand, why would does the designer try to slim down the ladies... bigger the better as far as this one is concerned B)

    I like them tiny tiny.. I'm ok with it
    PC-NA

    Necromancer

    Flawless Conqueror

    https://www.magictucktuck.com for my builds and guides!
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    I really don't understand how people cannot see the difference. its in your face glaring. (as for the dress, I just tell myself that my girls are wearing extremely tight waist trainer corsets :P but yeah, it would be nice if their bodies actualy looked like their bodies).

    and honestly? /pointed look

    its not about "staring at a female ass all day" its about you know paying attention to details and I don't know, not being artistically blind?

    @Linaleah

    As the OP, it's actually unsurprising and expected that some people won't be able to see the difference. Much like how different people have different capacity for color perception due to anatomical differences in the eye, some folks have different capacity for perceiving geometric features. It's completely natural and nothing we should get bent out of shape over.

    And then, of course, there are the trolls. Can't do anything about that except thank them for bumping this Very Important Thread back up to the top. ;)

    yeah that's what i was about to say too. some people haven't developed their visual cortex and are just comfortable with their visually dull lives. or maybe they just have awful vision due to inferior genetics? either way, the types of people who can be bored at art galleries are unlikely to have meaningful contributions on this topic. i guess just be glad that they're on an internet forum where they're harmless and can be ignored.

    i wonder what kind of coding it would be that messes this all up too. i know i've changed diet and exercise patterns to fit clothes better, but these avatars have already been customized down to the last detail. having to purchase an appearance change token to look your best in your new favorite costume seems kind of excessive. it's certainly not going to be a priority issue for the majority of the development team, but it does seem worthwhile to set the Crown Store designers and a couple coders on it so that players can have what they expected when they spent their Crown support.

    Yo, I'm trying to not be condescending and ableist over here. Can we not ruin this?

    Anyway, It's clearly an intentional adjustment to the character model and not a mistake or bug in the code. It's a design decision that I'm personally against. Other costumes that let you see that much leg don't have this problem, like the Dragon Warrior costume.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • rhapsodious
    rhapsodious
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    Mielikki wrote: »
    In the noble dress or whatever it's called (half-hearted) defense, I believe the intended effect is to look like you have a corset on underneath. It's definitely exaggerated and could be made more realistic, but I think that was deliberate from a design perspective as well as a model perspective.

    I totally get it! That's cool, but the effect should be less extreme in characters that are already thin. It loks like they are going to break in half with the help of a little breeze, her waist is almost as small as her neck.

    Oh, definitely! Yeah, the "snap in half" levels of thinness aren't... great. I guess it just bothers me less than the thigh issues because it's... aesthetically coherent? But I agree, as someone with slender characters they look in need of medical intervention with some of the costumes. D:
  • SGT_Wolfe101st
    SGT_Wolfe101st
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    I know everyone has "their" thing in ESO and I suspect there are some that this does bother, however Cyrodiill is nearly unplayable right now, the long load screens are back, weapon balance, gear balance, drops RNG, I could go on and on, but seriously, this is the LEAST of our problems. This right here is why nothing ever changes, we have 3 million active players and 1.5M different needs, wants, and desires. CAN WE FOCUS PEOPLE?
    PS4 -NA AD

    Wood Elf - StamNB - DPS
    Nord - MagDK - Tank
    High Elf - MagSorc - DPS
    Dark Elf - Mag Warden- Healer
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    I know everyone has "their" thing in ESO and I suspect there are some that this does bother, however Cyrodiill is nearly unplayable right now, the long load screens are back, weapon balance, gear balance, drops RNG, I could go on and on, but seriously, this is the LEAST of our problems. This right here is why nothing ever changes, we have 3 million active players and 1.5M different needs, wants, and desires. CAN WE FOCUS PEOPLE?

    @SGT_Wolfe101st

    Cyrodiil is rough but it's not unplayable. I'm in there quite regularly. :-p Long load screens never fully went away, they've just fixed certain scenarios where they can happen. There are workarounds and safeguards your group can do to minimize them. Drop RNG is basically a nonissue after transmutation, assuming you're talking about like, actual gear and not motif pages or recipes or something.

    Also, more to the point, different teams at ZOS are doing different things. They're not going to take a modeling artist off their projects to go work on load screen fixes. Stop trying to put all your eggs in one basket and compartmentalize. Or departmentalize, whichever.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Recremen wrote: »
    AlienSlof wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Why do males have same version as female? Just saying would look nicer without top for males :*

    Maybe options like that will come with the second part of the Outfit system, who knows.

    I really hope so. It's really not that difficult to just remove the 'bra' tops for the guys. At least one of the Redguard dancer outfits was actually put on some male dancer NPC's without the top part. I'd love to use them on my males, but not with 'bra' tops! :D

    I don't mind the bra tops but yeah we have been socially conditioned to associate that cut with breasts, even though it's aesthetically indistinguishable on guys with large chests. Still, I'd love to have the option.

    Socially conditioned? It was designed specifically for Breasts both for cover and support. Males with flat chests have nothing to support, so the design on them is merely an impractical fashion statement.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
    xenowarrior92eb17_ESO
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    if you cant bear a woman clothes...don't wear them.
  • SGT_Wolfe101st
    SGT_Wolfe101st
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    Recremen wrote: »
    I know everyone has "their" thing in ESO and I suspect there are some that this does bother, however Cyrodiill is nearly unplayable right now, the long load screens are back, weapon balance, gear balance, drops RNG, I could go on and on, but seriously, this is the LEAST of our problems. This right here is why nothing ever changes, we have 3 million active players and 1.5M different needs, wants, and desires. CAN WE FOCUS PEOPLE?

    @SGT_Wolfe101st

    Cyrodiil is rough but it's not unplayable. I'm in there quite regularly. :-p Long load screens never fully went away, they've just fixed certain scenarios where they can happen. There are workarounds and safeguards your group can do to minimize them. Drop RNG is basically a nonissue after transmutation, assuming you're talking about like, actual gear and not motif pages or recipes or something.

    Also, more to the point, different teams at ZOS are doing different things. They're not going to take a modeling artist off their projects to go work on load screen fixes. Stop trying to put all your eggs in one basket and compartmentalize. Or departmentalize, whichever.

    First I said nearly and it is awful right now, long load screens are worse, RNG as in everything in the game that doesn't drop. And what I am getting at is those things are detrimental to the game. I know they aren't going to put the same resource into the lag in PVP that was on modeling but the hours spent there can't be spent on game issues. I said I understand but I would bet you if you took a survey and asked the number 3 issues the ones I listed would be top 5, and costume appearance issues would be much lower. Let's fix from high priority to low priority POV, they are all important to someone, other are more important to more people. Not trying to diminish the hopes of any one group.
    PS4 -NA AD

    Wood Elf - StamNB - DPS
    Nord - MagDK - Tank
    High Elf - MagSorc - DPS
    Dark Elf - Mag Warden- Healer
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    AlienSlof wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Why do males have same version as female? Just saying would look nicer without top for males :*

    Maybe options like that will come with the second part of the Outfit system, who knows.

    I really hope so. It's really not that difficult to just remove the 'bra' tops for the guys. At least one of the Redguard dancer outfits was actually put on some male dancer NPC's without the top part. I'd love to use them on my males, but not with 'bra' tops! :D

    I don't mind the bra tops but yeah we have been socially conditioned to associate that cut with breasts, even though it's aesthetically indistinguishable on guys with large chests. Still, I'd love to have the option.

    Socially conditioned? It was designed specifically for Breasts both for cover and support. Males with flat chests have nothing to support, so the design on them is merely an impractical fashion statement.
    it's aesthetically indistinguishable on guys with large chests

    Yeah I think I got that "flat chest" bit covered in the original quoted text, but thanks for your input. And no, there are a million ways to cover and support breasts, that particular cut is literally a social convention.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • rhapsodious
    rhapsodious
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    First I said nearly and it is awful right now, long load screens are worse, RNG as in everything in the game that doesn't drop. And what I am getting at is those things are detrimental to the game. I know they aren't going to put the same resource into the lag in PVP that was on modeling but the hours spent there can't be spent on game issues. I said I understand but I would bet you if you took a survey and asked the number 3 issues the ones I listed would be top 5, and costume appearance issues would be much lower. Let's fix from high priority to low priority POV, they are all important to someone, other are more important to more people. Not trying to diminish the hopes of any one group.

    It's not an issue of "we have two people and 16 man-hours of work today, let's devote 5 of them to fixing the distorted hips", it's an issue of "we have a network engineer and a character modeler, let's let the character model fix character-model-related bugs while the network engineer does something else relevant to their job description."

    The person/team who's doing the character models has a very good chance of knowing next to nothing about performance in Cyrodiil from a developer perspective. That's what Recremen is saying, that the division of tasks is why we get stuff like floating armor pauldrons getting fixed or the dog in Wayrest no longer glitching out while the image of White-Gold Tower with the Dark Anchor over it is burned onto some people's TVs.

    Stability and performance are definitely more important in the grand scheme of things, but low-hanging fruit like this is (usually) a lot easier to fix.
  • Dapper Dinosaur
    Dapper Dinosaur
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    I must have been looking at the wrong place before. I was looking at the widest point of her thighs and up and down her legs, not farther up toward the stomach. I can see the difference now, you guys are talking about the sharp curve from hip to sternum, right?
    Edited by Dapper Dinosaur on January 19, 2018 9:04PM
  • EvilAutoTech
    EvilAutoTech
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    Gorak wrote: »
    Some of the crown store costumes definitely have a slimming effect on my toons. It is something that has bothered me to the point where I no longer use the costumes. Several of the cs outfits make the female toons look way too thin in the hips and waist. Even when I goof around and put my hefty dark elf in the graht climber's skirt and top, his butt disappears.

    If you are a sub, try different colors for the graht climber. My altmer in gold brings to mind the spoken intro of baby got back, but it's not just the tush, the chest is outrageous as well. In black or the default brown, she's not very curvaceous. I have it green on one of my Nords and she looks like she has watermelons attached to her. Another Nord female character has the legs of Mr Universe when it's white.

    Have not bought either new costume yet, might not because the dyes are so disappointing and having two different size legs does not appeal to me.
  • ixie
    ixie
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    I don't see what the fuss is about, they look the same to me
    PC EU

    Ixie - Breton Nightblade
    Paints-With-Frogs - Argonian Nightblade
    Swee Troll - Crafter Dragonknight
  • Runefang
    Runefang
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    Recremen wrote: »
    Runefang wrote: »
    The word insignificant comes to mind here.

    Two words come to mind here. The second one is "off".

    @Recremen I'll give you that one, good reply!
  • swippy
    swippy
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    Recremen wrote: »
    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    I really don't understand how people cannot see the difference. its in your face glaring. (as for the dress, I just tell myself that my girls are wearing extremely tight waist trainer corsets :P but yeah, it would be nice if their bodies actualy looked like their bodies).

    and honestly? /pointed look

    its not about "staring at a female ass all day" its about you know paying attention to details and I don't know, not being artistically blind?

    @Linaleah

    As the OP, it's actually unsurprising and expected that some people won't be able to see the difference. Much like how different people have different capacity for color perception due to anatomical differences in the eye, some folks have different capacity for perceiving geometric features. It's completely natural and nothing we should get bent out of shape over.

    And then, of course, there are the trolls. Can't do anything about that except thank them for bumping this Very Important Thread back up to the top. ;)

    yeah that's what i was about to say too. some people haven't developed their visual cortex and are just comfortable with their visually dull lives. or maybe they just have awful vision due to inferior genetics? either way, the types of people who can be bored at art galleries are unlikely to have meaningful contributions on this topic. i guess just be glad that they're on an internet forum where they're harmless and can be ignored.

    i wonder what kind of coding it would be that messes this all up too. i know i've changed diet and exercise patterns to fit clothes better, but these avatars have already been customized down to the last detail. having to purchase an appearance change token to look your best in your new favorite costume seems kind of excessive. it's certainly not going to be a priority issue for the majority of the development team, but it does seem worthwhile to set the Crown Store designers and a couple coders on it so that players can have what they expected when they spent their Crown support.

    Yo, I'm trying to not be condescending and ableist over here. Can we not ruin this?

    Anyway, It's clearly an intentional adjustment to the character model and not a mistake or bug in the code. It's a design decision that I'm personally against. Other costumes that let you see that much leg don't have this problem, like the Dragon Warrior costume.

    you're right; you're doing excellent at being respectful about the differences in perception. i was acting like a weiner, and since those feelings are real to me i can't sincerely apologize for my weinerness. i do regret not recognizing your tone and then pooping up your thread, because i may have undermined both aspects of your effort here, and i think you're correct and going about it well. browsing on my tablet i can't see each poster's identity without a bunch of additional horizontal scrolling, so i usually see each comment by itself. i didn't notice that it was you being cool throughout until you pointed it out, and that's my fault.

    it does seem strange that a designer would intentionally add such an unusual change in biological proportion to an outfit. having the head of the quadricep being as thick as a mid-thigh is extremely uncommon in people. i disagree with a costume changing the shape of the unclothed model at all, unless it was specifically sold as a corset or like a stack of neck rings or whatever. i had assumed that the clothing in this game could only add to the size of a character model (like adding more legos or a coat of paint, not like using a dremel grinder). it's just baffling that any designer would intend to change character models that have been so diligently assembled, and then sell that to the people who are obviously concerned with appearance in the first place. maybe i'm giving them too much benefit of doubt by thinking it's a mistake?

    why is it "clearly an intentional adjustment"? it obviously looks much worse. what would be the motivation?
    Edited by swippy on January 19, 2018 9:50PM
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    I really don't understand how people cannot see the difference. its in your face glaring. (as for the dress, I just tell myself that my girls are wearing extremely tight waist trainer corsets :P but yeah, it would be nice if their bodies actualy looked like their bodies).

    and honestly? /pointed look

    its not about "staring at a female ass all day" its about you know paying attention to details and I don't know, not being artistically blind?

    @Linaleah

    As the OP, it's actually unsurprising and expected that some people won't be able to see the difference. Much like how different people have different capacity for color perception due to anatomical differences in the eye, some folks have different capacity for perceiving geometric features. It's completely natural and nothing we should get bent out of shape over.

    And then, of course, there are the trolls. Can't do anything about that except thank them for bumping this Very Important Thread back up to the top. ;)

    yeah that's what i was about to say too. some people haven't developed their visual cortex and are just comfortable with their visually dull lives. or maybe they just have awful vision due to inferior genetics? either way, the types of people who can be bored at art galleries are unlikely to have meaningful contributions on this topic. i guess just be glad that they're on an internet forum where they're harmless and can be ignored.

    i wonder what kind of coding it would be that messes this all up too. i know i've changed diet and exercise patterns to fit clothes better, but these avatars have already been customized down to the last detail. having to purchase an appearance change token to look your best in your new favorite costume seems kind of excessive. it's certainly not going to be a priority issue for the majority of the development team, but it does seem worthwhile to set the Crown Store designers and a couple coders on it so that players can have what they expected when they spent their Crown support.

    Yo, I'm trying to not be condescending and ableist over here. Can we not ruin this?

    Anyway, It's clearly an intentional adjustment to the character model and not a mistake or bug in the code. It's a design decision that I'm personally against. Other costumes that let you see that much leg don't have this problem, like the Dragon Warrior costume.

    you're right; you're doing excellent at being respectful about the differences in perception. i was acting like a weiner, and since those feelings are real to me i can't sincerely apologize for my weinerness. i do regret not recognizing your tone and then pooping up your thread, because i may have undermined both aspects of your effort here, and i think you're correct and going about it well. browsing on my tablet i can't see each poster's identity without a bunch of additional horizontal scrolling, so i usually see each comment by itself. i didn't notice that it was you being cool throughout until you pointed it out, and that's my fault.

    it does seem strange that a designer would intentionally add such an unusual change in biological proportion to an outfit. having the head of the quadricep being as thick as a mid-thigh is extremely uncommon in people. i disagree with a costume changing the shape of the unclothed model at all, unless it was specifically sold as a corset or like a stack of neck rings or whatever. i had assumed that the clothing in this game could only add to the size of a character model (like adding more legos or a coat of paint, not like using a dremel grinder). it's just baffling that any designer would intend to change character models that have been so diligently assembled, and then sell that to the people who are obviously concerned with appearance in the first place. maybe i'm giving them too much benefit of doubt by thinking it's not a mistake?

    why is it "clearly an intentional adjustment"? it obviously looks much worse. what would be the motivation?

    Don't beat yourself up about it too much, I did basically tell someone to eff off earlier in the thread. XD I was more talking specifically about the comment regarding color and shape perception.

    So the reason I think it's clearly intentional is that many other costumes, even ones that show off a lot of leg and have a skirt-like appearance, don't change the actual leg shape. A lot of the details come down to what kind of tech they're using, but I don't know what that is and don't have any experience in that field anyway, I'm just making guesses that are as educated as possible. For this one, due to differences in existing costumes, I am really very confident that these are intentional, enough to just flat out assert it as true.

    Why would they do that? Well, the designers thought it was good. I wouldn't say it's automatically worse, since the value of an aesthetic is always up to the one using it, but I can say that if I wanted thinner legs I'd have just done that in the character creator. Of course it's also possible they're messing with it to be able to make the model fit on the hugely diverse body shapes and sizes, but I'm a little skeptical on that end. After all, they're shaving it off the inner thigh on both of them and the outer thigh on only one of them. The inner thigh doesn't seem like a super dangerous clipping hazard to me.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • swippy
    swippy
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    i've taken mostly figurative beatings countless times in my life for being able to see things other people don't. sometimes i indulge in a chance to dish that back. i'm not beating myself up about it; contrary: i'm probably lucky to have such a tiny soapbox :)

    i'm still not seeing a logical motivation for this. "some do and some don't" doesn't strike me as intent; it sounds like a mistake. to postulate that they're taking a new direction toward thinner thighs for high-legged stuff now seems contrived, and doesn't explain why the new code wouldn't be applied to older costumes that fit the criteria.
    i do agree that if we wanted thinner legs we would have chosen to have thinner legs. i'd probably have to create a new max-size character and watch it run toward me in different sets of short clothing to check for inner thigh clipping, but i still don't think i understand why a "fix" like that would not be retroactively applied if it's a new design direction.

    but at the end of all this, it's pretty clear: intentional or not, this isn't what we signed up for. this should be on the list of Things To Fix.
  • VexingArcanist
    VexingArcanist
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    Mielikki wrote: »
    Agreed!

    rN2O7UQ.png

    There are many old costumes that present the same annoying visual glitch. Most costumes create a thigh gap that my character does not have.

    4VhynbL.jpg

    I have used photoshop to make it look as it should:

    HXUMJia.png

    And finally, this oldie could use some love:

    sJFs12Z.jpg

    The waist distortion is extreme, and my character is not even that thin, she's on the center of the body slide. Skinnier characters look even more ridiculous.


    Both your images of the distortion and your edit to correct are spot on.
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    swippy wrote: »
    i've taken mostly figurative beatings countless times in my life for being able to see things other people don't. sometimes i indulge in a chance to dish that back. i'm not beating myself up about it; contrary: i'm probably lucky to have such a tiny soapbox :)

    i'm still not seeing a logical motivation for this. "some do and some don't" doesn't strike me as intent; it sounds like a mistake. to postulate that they're taking a new direction toward thinner thighs for high-legged stuff now seems contrived, and doesn't explain why the new code wouldn't be applied to older costumes that fit the criteria.
    i do agree that if we wanted thinner legs we would have chosen to have thinner legs. i'd probably have to create a new max-size character and watch it run toward me in different sets of short clothing to check for inner thigh clipping, but i still don't think i understand why a "fix" like that would not be retroactively applied if it's a new design direction.

    but at the end of all this, it's pretty clear: intentional or not, this isn't what we signed up for. this should be on the list of Things To Fix.

    It wouldn't be a new design direction, it's case-specific. They're not changing all old costumes to look Argonian-themed so there's no reason to believe they'd go back and change how legs look on other costumes, either. Meanwhile, we know they've done geometry-altering outfits before, very much on purpose, such as that corseted noble dress.

    Also saying that it's "new code" is probably not quite capturing the scenario here. They are more likely using modeling tools of some sort (we've seen this before in certian ESO Live shows, I just don't know the full extent), and not dealing with raw programming language stuff directly. It's way more likely that this is a feature of their modeling software, one that they're taking advantage of and just applying in a way that I find displeasing. So if there's a bug, it's in that software, and we ought to have seen it before, yes?
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Linaleah
    Linaleah
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    Recremen wrote: »
    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    swippy wrote: »
    Recremen wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    I really don't understand how people cannot see the difference. its in your face glaring. (as for the dress, I just tell myself that my girls are wearing extremely tight waist trainer corsets :P but yeah, it would be nice if their bodies actualy looked like their bodies).

    and honestly? /pointed look

    its not about "staring at a female ass all day" its about you know paying attention to details and I don't know, not being artistically blind?

    @Linaleah

    As the OP, it's actually unsurprising and expected that some people won't be able to see the difference. Much like how different people have different capacity for color perception due to anatomical differences in the eye, some folks have different capacity for perceiving geometric features. It's completely natural and nothing we should get bent out of shape over.

    And then, of course, there are the trolls. Can't do anything about that except thank them for bumping this Very Important Thread back up to the top. ;)

    yeah that's what i was about to say too. some people haven't developed their visual cortex and are just comfortable with their visually dull lives. or maybe they just have awful vision due to inferior genetics? either way, the types of people who can be bored at art galleries are unlikely to have meaningful contributions on this topic. i guess just be glad that they're on an internet forum where they're harmless and can be ignored.

    i wonder what kind of coding it would be that messes this all up too. i know i've changed diet and exercise patterns to fit clothes better, but these avatars have already been customized down to the last detail. having to purchase an appearance change token to look your best in your new favorite costume seems kind of excessive. it's certainly not going to be a priority issue for the majority of the development team, but it does seem worthwhile to set the Crown Store designers and a couple coders on it so that players can have what they expected when they spent their Crown support.

    Yo, I'm trying to not be condescending and ableist over here. Can we not ruin this?

    Anyway, It's clearly an intentional adjustment to the character model and not a mistake or bug in the code. It's a design decision that I'm personally against. Other costumes that let you see that much leg don't have this problem, like the Dragon Warrior costume.

    you're right; you're doing excellent at being respectful about the differences in perception. i was acting like a weiner, and since those feelings are real to me i can't sincerely apologize for my weinerness. i do regret not recognizing your tone and then pooping up your thread, because i may have undermined both aspects of your effort here, and i think you're correct and going about it well. browsing on my tablet i can't see each poster's identity without a bunch of additional horizontal scrolling, so i usually see each comment by itself. i didn't notice that it was you being cool throughout until you pointed it out, and that's my fault.

    it does seem strange that a designer would intentionally add such an unusual change in biological proportion to an outfit. having the head of the quadricep being as thick as a mid-thigh is extremely uncommon in people. i disagree with a costume changing the shape of the unclothed model at all, unless it was specifically sold as a corset or like a stack of neck rings or whatever. i had assumed that the clothing in this game could only add to the size of a character model (like adding more legos or a coat of paint, not like using a dremel grinder). it's just baffling that any designer would intend to change character models that have been so diligently assembled, and then sell that to the people who are obviously concerned with appearance in the first place. maybe i'm giving them too much benefit of doubt by thinking it's not a mistake?

    why is it "clearly an intentional adjustment"? it obviously looks much worse. what would be the motivation?

    Don't beat yourself up about it too much, I did basically tell someone to eff off earlier in the thread. XD I was more talking specifically about the comment regarding color and shape perception.

    So the reason I think it's clearly intentional is that many other costumes, even ones that show off a lot of leg and have a skirt-like appearance, don't change the actual leg shape. A lot of the details come down to what kind of tech they're using, but I don't know what that is and don't have any experience in that field anyway, I'm just making guesses that are as educated as possible. For this one, due to differences in existing costumes, I am really very confident that these are intentional, enough to just flat out assert it as true.

    Why would they do that? Well, the designers thought it was good. I wouldn't say it's automatically worse, since the value of an aesthetic is always up to the one using it, but I can say that if I wanted thinner legs I'd have just done that in the character creator. Of course it's also possible they're messing with it to be able to make the model fit on the hugely diverse body shapes and sizes, but I'm a little skeptical on that end. After all, they're shaving it off the inner thigh on both of them and the outer thigh on only one of them. The inner thigh doesn't seem like a super dangerous clipping hazard to me.

    I don't think its intentional. and the reason i don't think its intentional is becasue other costumes with nearly identical cut (I'm saying nearly identical, because of added flaps and details of fabric, if we just look at the basic pattern of the skirt - they ARE identical) - do NOT do that. even the other new costume, egg sister one - doesn't do that. it does add extra thigh gap, as all of the outfits with this cut do, but it doesn't chop off parts of outer thighs. moreover - this is essentially a short sarong. those are meant to be flush to the body, when knotted around hips like that. and other costumes? are. this one - has a gap between the skirt and a thigh, with flesh removed.

    which leads me to believe that this has GOT to be a visual bug, rather then intentional
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    I must have been looking at the wrong place before. I was looking at the widest point of her thighs and up and down her legs, not farther up toward the stomach. I can see the difference now, you guys are talking about the sharp curve from hip to sternum, right?

    The main problem I see is that the legs are distorted. If you look at where the thigh and the hip should connect (covered by the skirt) something is clearly off. One of the thighs (the right one in the most obvious in the pictures) is either shrunk or has had a gigantic chunk taken out of it that's hidden by the skirt.

    The sharp curve from hip to sternum is simply how ZOS designs female characters. This game does not exactly have a wide range of female body shapes. But that's a different problem from "I put on this costume and now my character's thighs are messed up."

    78li383.png

    If you look at the red dotted lines, you can see how off the thighs look, especially compared to some on the no-clothes pictures where the thighs are proportional.


  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    Mielikki wrote: »
    In the noble dress or whatever it's called (half-hearted) defense, I believe the intended effect is to look like you have a corset on underneath. It's definitely exaggerated and could be made more realistic, but I think that was deliberate from a design perspective as well as a model perspective.

    I totally get it! That's cool, but the effect should be less extreme in characters that are already thin. It loks like they are going to break in half with the help of a little breeze, her waist is almost as small as her neck.

    @Dapper Dinosaur No need to behave like a total ***. I am a girl, I am not into girls, but how anatomically incorrect the shape of my character looks with the costumes I've payed for irks me. If this looks anatomically correct to you, then I have nothing else to tell you:

    78li383.png

    Looking at that picture...
    Oh God What Is That?! What have you done?
  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    I know everyone has "their" thing in ESO and I suspect there are some that this does bother, however Cyrodiill is nearly unplayable right now, the long load screens are back, weapon balance, gear balance, drops RNG, I could go on and on, but seriously, this is the LEAST of our problems. This right here is why nothing ever changes, we have 3 million active players and 1.5M different needs, wants, and desires. CAN WE FOCUS PEOPLE?

    Exactly. It's called priorities.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

  • Graydon
    Graydon
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    Well crud! Now I’m worried I will lose sleep over this.



    No.
  • Mielikki
    Mielikki
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    Graydon wrote: »
    Well crud! Now I’m worried I will lose sleep over this.



    No.

    Yet another useless reply! Seriously, why do some of you even bother to post if you don't have anything productive to say?
  • Mielikki
    Mielikki
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    Bodymorph strikes again!

    dLK83nZ.png
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