Can tanks get some love please

Nestor · January 2018

AddiZ wrote: »

So you are saying that the loot drop is not based on dps?

Every time i bring an high dps to those fights i get loot 100% of the time when i play around a swarm of players. Its easy to see the difference when you are playing another role like tank in the same situation, usually you will not get loot and i cant understand why so could you explain how this system is set up, is it based of nr of interactions with the boss?

There used to be minimum DPS, now you just have to get a hit in or heal someone who has gotten a hit in. If there are more than 12 players, it's all RNG as to which of the 12 get loot. This was done so that Tanks and Healers could participate in the loot party at the end.

I have many times just tagged a WB with an LA and gotten loot when I am with a group that was 12 or less in size. Other times I know i have done a large portion of the DPS and not gotten loot when I am in a group larger than 12. We do World Boss tours with my Guild every Wednesday night, so I have been in plenty of less than 12 and more than 12 groups and have seen all different combos.

Also, note that if you kill two separate WB's in less than say 5 minutes apart, then you don't get Boss Loot, just Mob Loot. Usually this is not an issue, but some zones have close spaced WB's.

Peekachu99 · January 2018

Bajatar wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leadership is a personality trait and has very little to do with modifiers to mechanics.

"leadership" doesn't keep you alive, though. By that logic any light armor DPS could take on the role of tank.

Leadership implies that you have some sense of composition and wisdom that’s inherent with being a ‘leader’ and would therefore know how to approprioately gear and play your character. Most dungeons are forgiving toward bad dps, the same is rarely true of tanks (Vet, especially the DLC ones).

KanedaSyndrome · January 2018

If this is an actual thing, then it needs to be fixed asap.

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

AddiZ wrote: »

This is starting to annoy me so much that i just have to complain now.

When you are fighting a boss with your friends and you are tanking it you as a tank usually never get loot from the bosses because you have too low damage, only 12 players will get loot from certain bosses like world bosses or Molag-Bal in IC for example.

As a tank its your job to tank the damage away from your group, you have the boss on you the whole time and take almost all the damage from him and do minimal damage.

As a result you will not get anything for your effort in terms of loot because the top 12 damage dealers will only get something for their effort.

Can you please change this system because this is not fair at all for healers and tanks who are not focusing on damage but focusing on keeping the group alive.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Slot some AOE damage skills. If you have Eruption (70% slow skill) up 100% of the time you'll will be doing enough damage most of the time. I run Blockade of Frost, Gripping Shards, and Arctic Blast and thats enough. (slow/immobilize/heal all of which add up to more immobilizes and minor maim )

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

They will be getting some love next patch.

And by love, I mean nerf. Cuz nerfing is ZOS's love language.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Bajatar wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leadership is a personality trait and has very little to do with modifiers to mechanics.

"leadership" doesn't keep you alive, though. By that logic any light armor DPS could take on the role of tank.

Yup. I've done it too, on my medium armored stam sorc and my light armor mag sorc. Both times I slotted a taunt and played like a tank with a taunt and crowd control in addition to my DPS.

Of course, I could do that because I've learned the fights, the boss positioning, the mob movements and all the mechanics on my MagDK pure tank. Tanking experience or "leadership" is what kept me alive, which I could then use on other characters. A good tank controls the battlefield in a way that a healer or a DPS never has too - and that's fine because the healer and DPS have other priorities.

Yamakaziing · January 2018

Pve tanks need to go back to simply having high resists to tank everything. Dodge rolling and having to block through heavy attacks for 20k with 35k resists is so dumb. What is the point of being a tank if you get one shorted by one simple mistake. Dps and healers get one shorted not tanks. And also should not be as simple as torugs and ebons. That should not be better than high resists and damage reducing. Makes no sense at all. People say I'm whining. But I say no tank should have to constantly sit there and hold block through everything when clearly they keep nerfing it. They are supposed to take all the damage and taunt! Not run away from everything red because if thy don't the get half their health taken away. That's not being a tank. Connecting the two with pvp and pve is a big mistake

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Yamakaziing wrote: »

Pve tanks need to go back to simply having high resists to tank everything. Dodge rolling and having to block through heavy attacks for 20k with 35k resists is so dumb. What is the point of being a tank if you get one shorted by one simple mistake. Dps and healers get one shorted not tanks. And also should not be as simple as torugs and ebons. That should not be better than high resists and damage reducing. Makes no sense at all. People say I'm whining. But I say no tank should have to constantly sit there and hold block through everything when clearly they keep nerfing it. They are supposed to take all the damage and taunt! Not run away from everything red because if thy don't the get half their health taken away. That's not being a tank. Connecting the two with pvp and pve is a big mistake

No, no that should not be all there is to tanking. That would be boring AF. I do permablock and I do have cap resistance in Ebon/Alkosh (Torug's I go over cap) and I am almost never doing nothing. My magic is always low, I'm either rebuffing, re-applying my 3 DoTs which are also de-buffs, or I'm re-positioning the enemy. I very much enjoy where tanking is at right now. I'm hoping I can still enjoy it after my block cost trips in the next patch, we will see.

Torug's I like, Alkosh I sort of like though Torug's more so for my tank because Spell damage, Ebon is a blah set, but what ever I built around it. The only attack in the game I dodge roll is Asylum steam breath, and HoF 2nd Boss's Centurion healing debuff.

Yamakaziing · January 2018

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Yamakaziing wrote: »

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

As someone who mains a tank, yeah, I think that mechanics are good.

Admittedly, I main a magDK tank for normal and vet dungeons so I can't speak to trials tanking. I also have the benefit of having the DK's crowd control options like talons and chains. So I typically am not constantly applying taunts more than the basic Pierce Armor every 15 seconds, but I am constantly providing crowd control. I did use more taunts in the HotR dungeons, just because it was easier to use Inner Fire to focus the beefier adds on me.

For the harder normal and Veteran dungeons, tanking is still a matter of knowing what you have to block/taunt as opposed to blocking or taunting everything. Just like a DPS knows which adds have to go down fast, a tank knows which enemies to crowd control. Just like a DPS learns which AOEs to roll out of or which boss attacks to block, a tank knows when to block/bash/interrupt. I know that I need to block early on Selene's Bear attack, or she'll one-shot me. I know to dance out of the Lava Queen's fire streams or I'll die fast. I know that on Falkreath Hold, the minotaurs in the trash mob are my job to hold because the DPS I run with can't go toe to toe with them like I can and I don't see anything wrong with expecting me to block/bash/interrupt even on "trash mobs" as well as boss fights.

Tanking is rarely passive. I don't mind having to stay alert and quick to respond on my tank. I've never felt too squishy with my full resistances and Ebon Armory gear, but I have felt like I needed to be paying attention and playing smart on harder content. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

(I also PVP and in fact just farmed Falkreath Hold for pvp gear for a stam warden. Being good at PVP does not preclude players from being good at PVE. If a PVP player doesn't want to invest the time/experience to get better at PVE, I don't think PVE content should be made easier for them, any more than I'm in favor of nerfing PVP for PVE players who don't want to put in the time/experience to get better at PVP.)

Yamakaziing · January 2018

they have changed the way tanking is done specifically so it's not as easy to get your group what they need it was fine the way it used to be

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Yamakaziing wrote: »

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

Sets you need for PvP? All the PvP meta sets are Word Drops! Which fights exactly are you to busy to avoid 1 shots? Warrior, like 2-4 adds the Off Tank is handling, Saint Olms, only 3 enemies total in the hardest configuration. HoF Assembly General, one shot if you're slow. Pinnacle Factotum, one shot if you move.

Right now mechinics don't even force Tanks to wear selfish sets so how in the world is it "too hard." Sure things would be easier in Hist/Footmans, but they are workable in Ebon/Alkosh. All the things I hate in a bad tank are things THEY do, not things done to them.

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yamakaziing wrote: »

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

As someone who mains a tank, yeah, I think that mechanics are good.

Admittedly, I main a magDK tank for normal and vet dungeons so I can't speak to trials tanking. I also have the benefit of having the DK's crowd control options like talons and chains. So I typically am not constantly applying taunts more than the basic Pierce Armor every 15 seconds, but I am constantly providing crowd control. I did use more taunts in the HotR dungeons, just because it was easier to use Inner Fire to focus the beefier adds on me.

For the harder normal and Veteran dungeons, tanking is still a matter of knowing what you have to block/taunt as opposed to blocking or taunting everything. Just like a DPS knows which adds have to go down fast, a tank knows which enemies to crowd control. Just like a DPS learns which AOEs to roll out of or which boss attacks to block, a tank knows when to block/bash/interrupt. I know that I need to block early on Selene's Bear attack, or she'll one-shot me. I know to dance out of the Lava Queen's fire streams or I'll die fast. I know that on Falkreath Hold, the minotaurs in the trash mob are my job to hold because the DPS I run with can't go toe to toe with them like I can and I don't see anything wrong with expecting me to block/bash/interrupt even on "trash mobs" as well as boss fights.

Tanking is rarely passive. I don't mind having to stay alert and quick to respond on my tank. I've never felt too squishy with my full resistances and Ebon Armory gear, but I have felt like I needed to be paying attention and playing smart on harder content. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

(I also PVP and in fact just farmed Falkreath Hold for pvp gear for a stam warden. Being good at PVP does not preclude players from being good at PVE. If a PVP player doesn't want to invest the time/experience to get better at PVE, I don't think PVE content should be made easier for them, any more than I'm in favor of nerfing PVP for PVE players who don't want to put in the time/experience to get better at PVP.)

^^^^^^ This
And I do Trials Tank, and I do permablock because I've chosen to invest in making that possible (3 Shield Play, 61 CP in Shadow Ward, 6 sturdy) and I do have 30+ skin runs which means a lot of No-Death runs, which means never getting hit by a tank level one shot and it means never letting a One-Shot get off on anyone else either; Fire Brand, Earthgore, Wallbreaker, Tramplers, Death Striker, Orgnums, Stone Shapers, Overseers

xaraan · January 2018

If you are in a group bigger than 12 doing overland, you don't need "roles" like tank. Swap and use a dps build like you would for questing and similar (hopefully).

Asardes · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yamakaziing wrote: »

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

As someone who mains a tank, yeah, I think that mechanics are good.

Admittedly, I main a magDK tank for normal and vet dungeons so I can't speak to trials tanking. I also have the benefit of having the DK's crowd control options like talons and chains. So I typically am not constantly applying taunts more than the basic Pierce Armor every 15 seconds, but I am constantly providing crowd control. I did use more taunts in the HotR dungeons, just because it was easier to use Inner Fire to focus the beefier adds on me.

For the harder normal and Veteran dungeons, tanking is still a matter of knowing what you have to block/taunt as opposed to blocking or taunting everything. Just like a DPS knows which adds have to go down fast, a tank knows which enemies to crowd control. Just like a DPS learns which AOEs to roll out of or which boss attacks to block, a tank knows when to block/bash/interrupt. I know that I need to block early on Selene's Bear attack, or she'll one-shot me. I know to dance out of the Lava Queen's fire streams or I'll die fast. I know that on Falkreath Hold, the minotaurs in the trash mob are my job to hold because the DPS I run with can't go toe to toe with them like I can and I don't see anything wrong with expecting me to block/bash/interrupt even on "trash mobs" as well as boss fights.

Tanking is rarely passive. I don't mind having to stay alert and quick to respond on my tank. I've never felt too squishy with my full resistances and Ebon Armory gear, but I have felt like I needed to be paying attention and playing smart on harder content. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

(I also PVP and in fact just farmed Falkreath Hold for pvp gear for a stam warden. Being good at PVP does not preclude players from being good at PVE. If a PVP player doesn't want to invest the time/experience to get better at PVE, I don't think PVE content should be made easier for them, any more than I'm in favor of nerfing PVP for PVE players who don't want to put in the time/experience to get better at PVP.)

Totally agree with that. A tank that perma-blocks isn't needed anywhere in the game except a few isolated instances like vAA when you have 5+ axes. I never set out to minimize my block cost and ignore every other stats like some "gurus" advise new players. In fact, tanking with PuGs for my 1st year in the game I learned to self sustain stamina and magicka, heal myself, keep aggro and full buffs and debuffs, and outlast everybody else (they died to avoidable AoEs) then resurrect them with all the mobs beating on me. Those PuGs rarely had a fully functioning healer: to some people I had to provide non-set, dropped healing staves, and instruct them where to find shards or elemental drain in their skill tree. And some of those were already at Veteran rank back in the day. Not to mention the heavy armor "DD"s spamming magicka and stamina skills at the same time, then getting pissed at me for criticizing their build: "u elitist bruh, I have 15K tooltip on sinpe!1!1!1!".

For normal dungeons a tank is not necessary. You can simply get any stamina 2H character and spam brawler, and be almost immune to any damage and keep aggro at the same time trough DoTs. For magicka just slot Harness Magicka (or Hardened Ward on sorcerer), put a few ground based DoT AoE, and only taunt the boss with Inner Rage (I put that instead of Inner Light on my front bar). I "tanked" numerous dungeons with that setup. I did normal Bloodroot Forge with my Magicka Sorcerer as tank, and I had no trouble carrying the whole group (>60% of DPS) as well as keeping aggro on bosses. I also tanked Ruins of Mazzatun on a medium armor 2W stamina NB, albeit I roll-dodged a lot (the secret is to do it in place, so the enemy stays in the AoEs), and relied on Deadly Cloak AoE damage reduction for survival. So there are plenty of ways to do it, without actully speccing for it.

Regarning PvP and "tanking", usually people don't spec for that either. Rather they have 1H+S on a bar, and 2H or staff on the other. Blocking alone has huge mitigation, even if you are in medium and even light armor, and battle spirit ensures you don't get one-shot, especially while blocking. If I were to farm IC with a group, I'd spec just like that: put some damage on the boss for loot, and be able to hold my own if the enemy zerg happens to come by. I find PvP very instructive for players, even if they mainly PvE: you need the skills anyway, especially if you play a support role on that caracter - in end game PvE you're basically worthless as healer or tank if you don't slot Aggressive Horn, Barrier comes in handy, Purge is a must in some trials, and even Magicka Aid passive is helpful if you want to stack high magicka recovery. Not to mention that Stamina players from 3/5 classes are basically dead without Vigor, and Caltrops make a big chunk of your DPS. Also PvP teaches abilities that are essential in end-game PvE: timely block, dodge, break CC. So I do agree that someone who's good in PvP will probably ace hard PvE content, like trials & vMA if they get the right build and gear, which isn't hard since with crafted gear only you can pull ~95% of the DPS you would pull with BiS dropped gear, using the same rotation.

People who say "I mainly PvP therefore I suck at PvE" are certainly just zerg surfers that learned nothing trough their long hours of play, some with multiple stars I've seen spamming snipe and light attacks from the middle of the group. If you can avoid, mitigate and damage coming from players that react in real time, and kill them you can certainly do the same for dumb, automated NPCs that usually don't react to your attacks, but have automatic attack sequences based on timer and/or health bar percentages. So if I see someone with PvP tresses and "Stormproof" title I'm almost certain he'll understand what to do in a dungeon, maybe die once or twice to some mechanic, but beat it the 3rd time.

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Asardes wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yamakaziing wrote: »

omg too many of you thinking these mechanics are good.thats not boring at all! You are constantly apply taunts healing/debuffing and keeping enemies away from your allies. To also have to avoid one shots for no reason other than trying to make it a bit more difficult to get the sets you need for pvp is ridiculous.

As someone who mains a tank, yeah, I think that mechanics are good.

Admittedly, I main a magDK tank for normal and vet dungeons so I can't speak to trials tanking. I also have the benefit of having the DK's crowd control options like talons and chains. So I typically am not constantly applying taunts more than the basic Pierce Armor every 15 seconds, but I am constantly providing crowd control. I did use more taunts in the HotR dungeons, just because it was easier to use Inner Fire to focus the beefier adds on me.

For the harder normal and Veteran dungeons, tanking is still a matter of knowing what you have to block/taunt as opposed to blocking or taunting everything. Just like a DPS knows which adds have to go down fast, a tank knows which enemies to crowd control. Just like a DPS learns which AOEs to roll out of or which boss attacks to block, a tank knows when to block/bash/interrupt. I know that I need to block early on Selene's Bear attack, or she'll one-shot me. I know to dance out of the Lava Queen's fire streams or I'll die fast. I know that on Falkreath Hold, the minotaurs in the trash mob are my job to hold because the DPS I run with can't go toe to toe with them like I can and I don't see anything wrong with expecting me to block/bash/interrupt even on "trash mobs" as well as boss fights.

Tanking is rarely passive. I don't mind having to stay alert and quick to respond on my tank. I've never felt too squishy with my full resistances and Ebon Armory gear, but I have felt like I needed to be paying attention and playing smart on harder content. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

(I also PVP and in fact just farmed Falkreath Hold for pvp gear for a stam warden. Being good at PVP does not preclude players from being good at PVE. If a PVP player doesn't want to invest the time/experience to get better at PVE, I don't think PVE content should be made easier for them, any more than I'm in favor of nerfing PVP for PVE players who don't want to put in the time/experience to get better at PVP.)

Totally agree with that. A tank that perma-blocks isn't needed anywhere in the game except a few isolated instances like vAA when you have 5+ axes. I never set out to minimize my block cost and ignore every other stats like some "gurus" advise new players. In fact, tanking with PuGs for my 1st year in the game I learned to self sustain stamina and magicka, heal myself, keep aggro and full buffs and debuffs, and outlast everybody else (they died to avoidable AoEs) then resurrect them with all the mobs beating on me. Those PuGs rarely had a fully functioning healer: to some people I had to provide non-set, dropped healing staves, and instruct them where to find shards or elemental drain in their skill tree. And some of those were already at Veteran rank back in the day. Not to mention the heavy armor "DD"s spamming magicka and stamina skills at the same time, then getting pissed at me for criticizing their build: "u elitist bruh, I have 15K tooltip on sinpe!1!1!1!".

For normal dungeons a tank is not necessary. You can simply get any stamina 2H character and spam brawler, and be almost immune to any damage and keep aggro at the same time trough DoTs. For magicka just slot Harness Magicka (or Hardened Ward on sorcerer), put a few ground based DoT AoE, and only taunt the boss with Inner Rage (I put that instead of Inner Light on my front bar). I "tanked" numerous dungeons with that setup. I did normal Bloodroot Forge with my Magicka Sorcerer as tank, and I had no trouble carrying the whole group (>60% of DPS) as well as keeping aggro on bosses. I also tanked Ruins of Mazzatun on a medium armor 2W stamina NB, albeit I roll-dodged a lot (the secret is to do it in place, so the enemy stays in the AoEs), and relied on Deadly Cloak AoE damage reduction for survival. So there are plenty of ways to do it, without actully speccing for it.

Regarning PvP and "tanking", usually people don't spec for that either. Rather they have 1H+S on a bar, and 2H or staff on the other. Blocking alone has huge mitigation, even if you are in medium and even light armor, and battle spirit ensures you don't get one-shot, especially while blocking. If I were to farm IC with a group, I'd spec just like that: put some damage on the boss for loot, and be able to hold my own if the enemy zerg happens to come by. I find PvP very instructive for players, even if they mainly PvE: you need the skills anyway, especially if you play a support role on that caracter - in end game PvE you're basically worthless as healer or tank if you don't slot Aggressive Horn, Barrier comes in handy, Purge is a must in some trials, and even Magicka Aid passive is helpful if you want to stack high magicka recovery. Not to mention that Stamina players from 3/5 classes are basically dead without Vigor, and Caltrops make a big chunk of your DPS. Also PvP teaches abilities that are essential in end-game PvE: timely block, dodge, break CC. So I do agree that someone who's good in PvP will probably ace hard PvE content, like trials & vMA if they get the right build and gear, which isn't hard since with crafted gear only you can pull ~95% of the DPS you would pull with BiS dropped gear, using the same rotation.

People who say "I mainly PvP therefore I suck at PvE" are certainly just zerg surfers that learned nothing trough their long hours of play, some with multiple stars I've seen spamming snipe and light attacks from the middle of the group. If you can avoid, mitigate and damage coming from players that react in real time, and kill them you can certainly do the same for dumb, automated NPCs that usually don't react to your attacks, but have automatic attack sequences based on timer and/or health bar percentages. So if I see someone with PvP tresses and "Stormproof" title I'm almost certain he'll understand what to do in a dungeon, maybe die once or twice to some mechanic, but beat it the 3rd time.

Wow DO NOT feed the bad tanks. Yesterday in FG1 Kra’gh the Dreugh King running around from one DPS to the next as each of us switch from DPS to Shield stacking because the worthless "tank" 2Handing+S&B. The day before in Wayrest with the x2 2Handed. Does not make you a tank.

Sure the weapon doesn't make a tank. Knowing what the hell you are doing does, and "spaming brawler" is useless, and you will NEVER "keep aggro through your DoTs" with a 2hander against any half way sentintent actual DPS using actual DPS weapons

If all you want to do is normal content, then yeah, those tanks do not need any love

If you cant hold block for FRH Bloodyhorn about 50% and down when you start getting multiple spawns of attros + boss aggro, stand in the center of Lord Warden's shades with all 4 aggro, last through 3 Amalgamations plus the roof collapsing, any of those and you aren't spec'd right. No you don't need to permablock, but you better be able to last until the windows, because some fights you're only going to get a few heavy attacks off.

Asardes · January 2018

I see the discussion as one about normal mode, which is designed to be done by anyone with at least a few functioning neurons between the ears. Of course, that can be frustrating too, if those are lacking, as I exemplified before. If a player frustrates the others by messing mechanics, and he doesn't abide by the advice you give him, the solution is to simply kick him, or leave the group if that fails. The frustration comes not from the difficulty of the content, which should test brains, rather than brawn to be interesting, but from the inability, and in many cases the unwillingness of some players to do the minimum in terms of listening to others or quickly opening a browser and checking the walk-trough.

And I stand by my words about aggro. When I do spec as tank, which I rarely do when I PuG since most DDs that queue can't kill anything, it suffices to damage the mob at the start, and keep some damage on it to keep aggro. I always do the pre-pull with a ground based DoT that positively draws all mobs to me, and only taunt the big ones: Volatile Armor, Cinder Storm, Razor Caltrops, Elemental Blockade, Gripping Shards, Refreshing Path all work. In most normal PuGs the bosses and mobs ignored the other players and targeted me almost exclusively, if I kept the DoTs on them, even if I didn't taunt.

The problem with fake tanks is not the gear, but rather their knowledge of the game. They do crap DPS, they don't know how to block or roll dodge, to keep aggro (even trough DoTs), and when they manage to, then they proceed to ruin it for everyone else by constantly kiting the target from your ground DoTs that make the bulk of the DPS on any build. And those are usually expensive to reapply. When they eat damage and keel over, after repeatedly failing to follow the directions I give in chat, I don't even bother wasting a gem on them, because they are not worth it. I'd rather solo a boss that stays on me and keeps eating that Endless Hail, Liquid Lightning or Blockade, than one that runs around like a headless chicken

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Asardes wrote: »

I see the discussion as one about normal mode, which is designed to be done by anyone with at least a few functioning neurons between the ears. Of course, that can be frustrating too, if those are lacking, as I exemplified before. If a player frustrates the others by messing mechanics, and he doesn't abide by the advice you give him, the solution is to simply kick him, or leave the group if that fails. The frustration comes not from the difficulty of the content, which should test brains, rather than brawn to be interesting, but from the inability, and in many cases the unwillingness of some players to do the minimum in terms of listening to others or quickly opening a browser and checking the walk-trough.

And I stand by my words about aggro. When I do spec as tank, which I rarely do when I PuG since most DDs that queue can't kill anything, it suffices to damage the mob at the start, and keep some damage on it to keep aggro. I always do the pre-pull with a ground based DoT that positively draws all mobs to me, and only taunt the big ones: Volatile Armor, Cinder Storm, Razor Caltrops, Elemental Blockade, Gripping Shards, Refreshing Path all work. In most normal PuGs the bosses and mobs ignored the other players and targeted me almost exclusively, if I kept the DoTs on them, even if I didn't taunt.

The problem with fake tanks is not the gear, but rather their knowledge of the game. They do crap DPS, they don't know how to block or roll dodge, to keep aggro (even trough DoTs), and when they manage to, then they proceed to ruin it for everyone else by constantly kiting the target from your ground DoTs that make the bulk of the DPS on any build. And those are usually expensive to reapply. When they eat damage and keel over, after repeatedly failing to follow the directions I give in chat, I don't even bother wasting a gem on them, because they are not worth it. I'd rather solo a boss that stays on me and keeps eating that Endless Hail, Liquid Lightning or Blockade, than one that runs around like a headless chicken

What you can do and what the person who reads your comment can do are competently different. I also notice that now you actually list worth a crap skills instead of frigging Brawler, making me really glad I pulled way back on my first draft of my reply that was full of a lot more shade.

Asardes · January 2018

The good thing about brawler is that in addition to the bleed DoT it adds a shield that scales with the number of enemies hit. I've found that really useful when doing hard dungeons with little or no support. For example I was able to get the said nFH PuG to the boss where it finally floundered helped chiefly by that skill to save me from one-shots by Minotaurs and other adds that hit really hard even on normal, as the tank either failed to grab them, or died right as it did. In overland scenarios it allowed me to solo world bosses which come as a group and/or have many adds on stamina characters, and those have stats and which are close to some dungeon bosses, especially in DLC areas. When weaved with heavy attacks it does provide passable and sustainable AoE damage, especially on a class that can buff the damage of the latter, like Sorcerer (Bound Armaments) or Dragonknight (Molten Armaments). I didn't claim that's the ideal skill to keep aggro, but it's probably one of the best that will do that reasonably well - as long as the bleed holds the mobs will be at you - and prevent you from dying if your gear is not up for the task. A medium armor tank, with 2H on back bar and 1H+S on front bar, using the said skill in trash pulls can certainly do most normal content in this game. I once did a nAA specced like this

Bryong9ub17_ESO · January 2018

I have to agree with the others on this. No need to tank in open world. Just put on some dps gear. This is why I have two sets for my DK I tank if I am doing a dungeon, but if I am doing anything solo or world bosses I have to put on some dps gear.

I can't even imagine doing solo missions in full tank gear. It would take forever just to kill a mob.

Maura_Neysa · January 2018

Honestly if its non group content, go solo that $@#! I don't think I've ever got past 50% before someone who couldn't do it on their own hopes in. Just excited they don't have to schedule time with a group for it. If you can't last solo against a WB then you need tanking practice, which you're doing. If you can last all day but do no damage, you're spec'd way too tanky. Volitale instead of Harden Armor, get Eruption its a 70% slow along with a decent DOT. Wardens Talons cast and do damage even if the boss is immune to immobilize, back bar a staff and run wall. I do 3k DPS 5 if I drop one taunt for another Dot, its slow but its the tank version of aTarget Skelton.

Nestor · January 2018

@AddiZ

Last night on our WB Tour, a group member got Boss Loot for a WB and he never even hit the Boss. He was just near us when it died. We were a group of 11.