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shacklebreaker
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.
Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.
With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.
The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.
Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.
You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)
You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.
You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.
Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.
Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out
Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.
Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?
Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results inI used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).
For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.
- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.
That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.
Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.
I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.
I just use Dawnbreaker. 100 cost ultimate is just designed better so much so that it offsets axiom buffing empowering sweeps. Next patch the heal will be buffed, making axiom a great set to use, of you can find the stamina elsewhere.
Plus AOE knockdown > empowering sweeps procing burning light. Even with UC you'll find you want to deny players around you so you can finish up on the target with UC with some jabs. And the dot helps on blocking/dodging builds making it more versatile than 90% of the Ultimates in the game.zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
Doesn't tri-food + atro/serpent mundas alone outperform shackle?
4105 mag/stam with 238 mag/stam recovery versus 129 SD/WD, 2000 mag/stam and 129 mag/stam recovery:
- trifood is 410.5 SD/WD when converted for your offense stat (with 4105 max stat for your other stat). Recovery is still 238 mag.
- shackle is 329 SD/WD when converted for your offsense stat (with only 2000 max stat for your utility stat). Recovery is only 129 for your offense stat with 129 for your utility stat).
Trifood route, despite the drop in stamina recovery, looks like it gives 81.5 SD/WD and 2105 mag/stam more than putting on 5pc of shackle. This is before putting on expensive tri-stat glyths.
Why are we comparing a food mundus combo to a 5 pc bonus when all of them can be used together?
Because wouldn't you use the food to slot a more defensive/offensive set over shackle? Especially sets like burning spellweave for huge increase to dmg stats (129 + 525 = 654sd), bloodthorn for better mag bonuses with 132 stamina recovery (660/5 sec), or transmutation which could let you swap to serpent stone to offset stam recovery?
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoyEdited by Lexxypwns on January 15, 2018 8:10PM0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.
Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.
With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.
The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.
Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.
You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)
You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.
You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.
Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.
Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out
Not making or breaking but shackle is a lot easier to obtain and is crafted which in part is why it's so popular, and can gain full advantage of undaunted mettle depending on your other sets. I don't run 2pc monster so I had higher base stats than running amber with my set up.
I also ran 1 shield so preferred the higher base magicka. There's a lot I would have loved to do with Amber that I couldn't because getting purple jewelry isn't easy or fun. But I also have dropped DC from my bar.
I think I have 24k health, 45k magicka, 14k stamina...something like 990 stamina Regen and 2100 recovery running Regen glyphs...using blue food. Even with that set up I'm still getting those high tooltip I mentioned earlier (10k reach and I forget the dot tooltip, like 15k frags). I do very well in 1vX with it. And a lot of these popular streamers have been unable to kill me in a 1v1 scenario. In open world, that has been important to me.
If you can advise something to run for 1vX to replace shackle I am all ears, but at the moment I am not dropping Riposte for 1vX. I try to keep multiple sets for testing purposes but I don't HAVE a prismatic glyph set yet for stat comparison. If another set with prismatic glyphs can replace shackelbreaker without killing my sustain or dmg...I am all for trying it.
Edited by Malamar1229 on January 15, 2018 8:30PM1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
Doesn't tri-food + atro/serpent mundas alone outperform shackle?
4105 mag/stam with 238 mag/stam recovery versus 129 SD/WD, 2000 mag/stam and 129 mag/stam recovery:
- trifood is 410.5 SD/WD when converted for your offense stat (with 4105 max stat for your other stat). Recovery is still 238 mag or stam pending which you select.
- shackle is 329 SD/WD when converted for your offsense stat (with only 2000 max stat for your utility stat). Recovery is only 129 for your offense stat with 129 for your utility stat).
Trifood route, despite the drop in stamina recovery, looks like it gives 81.5 SD/WD and 2105 mag/stam more than putting on 5pc of shackle. This is before putting on expensive tri-stat glyths.
So I’m guessing u don’t add mundus stone to shacklebreaker? LOL1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
What are the pure unbuffed stats including mag and stam pools. Also the which food and mundus.1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
What are the pure unbuffed stats including mag and stam pools. Also the which food and mundus.
There’s a build editor. Just go plug the stats in and look.
@Malamar1229 No doubt the shackle is good, so is Riposte. I’m not sure there’s a better 5pc to run than shackle on that specific setup given that riposte adds 0 sustain and inadequate damage. What are your jewelry glyphs and mundus?0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.
He could be using bull netch0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »What about twice born star as a replacement for shackle?
I assume running Atro and mage, or Atro and serpent (better idea)?
Remember the set is only adding one additional mundus effect, it has to be a five piece on both bars, and it offers no sustain by itself, unlike shackle.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.
He could be using bull netch
He’s wrong about the warden passives. Tri-pots+warden passives is enough stam sustain considering you can purge roots and snares at 0 cost.
The build is even better on argonian where you don’t need to run tri-pots and have superior mag sustain and still sit just around the same magika level because argonian max HP and resourceful allows you to forego adding ANY stam or health to the build from tri-glyphs or otherwise. It’s what I run right now and it’s viciously effective. @UppGRAYxDD has seen the build live in actionEdited by Lexxypwns on January 15, 2018 8:49PM0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.
He could be using bull netch
Lol that means no major sorcery unless he slots entropy.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.
Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.
With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.
The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.
Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.
You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)
You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.
You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.
Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.
Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out
Not making or breaking but shackle is a lot easier to obtain and is crafted which in part is why it's so popular, and can gain full advantage of undaunted mettle depending on your other sets. I don't run 2pc monster so I had higher base stats than running amber with my set up.
I also ran 1 shield so preferred the higher base magicka. There's a lot I would have loved to do with Amber that I couldn't because getting purple jewelry isn't easy or fun. But I also have dropped DC from my bar.
I think I have 24k health, 45k magicka, 14k stamina...something like 990 stamina Regen and 2100 recovery running Regen glyphs...using blue food. Even with that set up I'm still getting those high tooltip I mentioned earlier (10k reach and I forget the dot tooltip, like 15k frags). I do very well in 1vX with it. And a lot of these popular streamers have been unable to kill me in a 1v1 scenario. In open world, that has been important to me.
If you can advise something to run for 1vX to replace shackle I am all ears, but at the moment I am not dropping Riposte for 1vX. I try to keep multiple sets for testing purposes but I don't HAVE a prismatic glyph set yet for stat comparison. If another set with prismatic glyphs can replace shackelbreaker without killing my sustain or dmg...I am all for trying it.
Amberplasm and spinner worked well on a dual wield setup, but that’s mostly out of the question this patch. I know some guys who make it work with the streak stun and amazing mouse acrobatics, some other guys with rune cage and low crit instead of mage light - but for the rest of us Notsomuch. I tried it! It’s bad.
A staff build with clench/reach will at give you a spammable CC and more reliable ultimate uptime with light attack weaving. I couldn’t use amber with it though for the reason you gave: no jewelry and it’s a pain to get.1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.
He could be using bull netch
He’s wrong about the warden passives. Tri-pots+warden passives is enough stam sustain considering you can purge roots and snares at 0 cost.
The build is even better on argonian where you don’t need to run tri-pots and have superior mag sustain and still sit just around the same magika level because argonian max HP and resourceful allows you to forego adding ANY stam or health to the build from tri-glyphs or otherwise. It’s what I run right now and it’s viciously effective. @UppGRAYxDD has seen the build live in action
Yeah bro Ik the build editor very well that’s why I could guess your stats. If your talking about sustaining 13k stam with less than 800 recovery and depending on Nature’s Gift passives with the occasional tripots on a destro resto build you got something wrong. Adding an argonian race to the mix just puts icing on the cake.Edited by zParallaxz on January 15, 2018 8:58PM1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
Just looking at the build you around 13k max stam, now what’s your stam recovery at? Keep in mind magwarden has no ability to gain stam through passives. If I had to guess it would be below 800.
He could be using bull netch
He’s wrong about the warden passives. Tri-pots+warden passives is enough stam sustain considering you can purge roots and snares at 0 cost.
The build is even better on argonian where you don’t need to run tri-pots and have superior mag sustain and still sit just around the same magika level because argonian max HP and resourceful allows you to forego adding ANY stam or health to the build from tri-glyphs or otherwise. It’s what I run right now and it’s viciously effective. @UppGRAYxDD has seen the build live in action
Yeah bro Ik the build editor very well that’s why I could guess your stats. If your talking about sustaining 13k stam with less than 800 recovery and depending on Nature’s Gift passives with the occasional tripots on a destro resto build you got something wrong. Adding an argonian race to the mix just puts icing on the cake.
I'm running it on live. How about you HMU and run some BGs and watch how I get more damage, kills, healing, scoreboard points, and less deaths than your "open world" mDK or you stam warden bae. But nah, you'd rather troll on forums and hide behind a duel build while insisting it works in other scenarios, right?
My guess is you're not counting on stam poisons back bar that absolutely give me enough sustain under any circumstances.Edited by Lexxypwns on January 15, 2018 9:01PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
Doesn't tri-food + atro/serpent mundas alone outperform shackle?
4105 mag/stam with 238 mag/stam recovery versus 129 SD/WD, 2000 mag/stam and 129 mag/stam recovery:
- trifood is 410.5 SD/WD when converted for your offense stat (with 4105 max stat for your other stat). Recovery is still 238 mag or stam pending which you select.
- shackle is 329 SD/WD when converted for your offsense stat (with only 2000 max stat for your utility stat). Recovery is only 129 for your offense stat with 129 for your utility stat).
Trifood route, despite the drop in stamina recovery, looks like it gives 81.5 SD/WD and 2105 mag/stam more than putting on 5pc of shackle. This is before putting on expensive tri-stat glyths.
So I’m guessing u don’t add mundus stone to shacklebreaker? LOL
It's just a comparison of swapping stats around. Tri food + atro would be the cheapest option letting you experiment in running other setups. As @Lexxypwns said, it lets you swap things around for build flexibility.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Lol I could outplay u on any character I have bg or open world. Don’t be salty because you tout bad builds and I publicly disapprove of them. You keep trying to call my build a duel build because you have never seen it before, it differs from meta magdk builds, and you got beat 12+ times in a row in under 20 minutes. Plus don’t get me started in bgs, when I’ve seen you on the other team and you still get smacked and I come on top with most kills. Don’t try to make yourself appear as a good pvper on forums when in reality, you still sit at scrub Xv1 canon fodder. Don’t get me wrong your a decent/average player, but you got a long way to go with build making. None of the less you have yet to master any of the classes you play.
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »Lol I could outplay u on any character I have bg or open world. Don’t be salty because you tout bad builds and I publicly disapprove of them. You keep trying to call my build a duel build because you have never seen it before, it differs from meta magdk builds, and you got beat 12+ times in a row in under 20 minutes. Plus don’t get me started in bgs, when I’ve seen you on the other team and you still get smacked and I come on top with most kills. Don’t try to make yourself appear as a good pvper on forums when in reality, you still sit at scrub Xv1 canon fodder. Don’t get me wrong your a decent/average player, but you got a long way to go with build making. None of the less you have yet to master any of the classes you play.
We've done exactly 1 BG with each other and I 1vX'ed you and a buddy on my mDK while you were on stam warden while the rest of your pre-made ran relics and avoided fights.
I'm not saying I'm good, I'm just giving you math while you talk out your ass without giving any supporting facts.Edited by Lexxypwns on January 15, 2018 9:21PM1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭
Pretty sure u haven’t 1vx me and also my team won the match, don’t flex for the forums bro it’s not a good look.zParallaxz wrote: »Lol I could outplay u on any character I have bg or open world. Don’t be salty because you tout bad builds and I publicly disapprove of them. You keep trying to call my build a duel build because you have never seen it before, it differs from meta magdk builds, and you got beat 12+ times in a row in under 20 minutes. Plus don’t get me started in bgs, when I’ve seen you on the other team and you still get smacked and I come on top with most kills. Don’t try to make yourself appear as a good pvper on forums when in reality, you still sit at scrub Xv1 canon fodder. Don’t get me wrong your a decent/average player, but you got a long way to go with build making. None of the less you have yet to master any of the classes you play.
We've done exactly 1 BG with each other and I 1vX'ed you and a buddy on my mDK while you were on stam warden while the rest of your pre-made ran relics and avoided fights.
I'm not saying I'm good, I'm just giving you math while you talk out your ass without giving any supporting facts.
Edited by zParallaxz on January 15, 2018 9:29PM4 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »
Pretty sure u haven’t 1vx me and also my team won the match, don’t flex for the forums bro it’s not a good look.zParallaxz wrote: »Lol I could outplay u on any character I have bg or open world. Don’t be salty because you tout bad builds and I publicly disapprove of them. You keep trying to call my build a duel build because you have never seen it before, it differs from meta magdk builds, and you got beat 12+ times in a row in under 20 minutes. Plus don’t get me started in bgs, when I’ve seen you on the other team and you still get smacked and I come on top with most kills. Don’t try to make yourself appear as a good pvper on forums when in reality, you still sit at scrub Xv1 canon fodder. Don’t get me wrong your a decent/average player, but you got a long way to go with build making. None of the less you have yet to master any of the classes you play.
We've done exactly 1 BG with each other and I 1vX'ed you and a buddy on my mDK while you were on stam warden while the rest of your pre-made ran relics and avoided fights.
I'm not saying I'm good, I'm just giving you math while you talk out your ass without giving any supporting facts.
I’m just using an anecdote. Your team definitely won though, I don’t think we even capped 1 relic and you definitely killed me a few times that match when I was trying to pick up relics. I’m not flexing, just pointing out how there’s 2 sides to every coin.
I’ve tried to be friendly with you and I’d love to play BGs or open world with you, but you always refuse. That’s why I can only assume you know that mDK build is a duel spec, because you won’t do other activities with it
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Destyran✭✭✭✭✭
Shackle breaker and wizards best for bfs and open world small don’t need that morph then.0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
What are the pure unbuffed stats including mag and stam pools. Also the which food and mundus.
There’s a build editor. Just go plug the stats in and look.
@Malamar1229 No doubt the shackle is good, so is Riposte. I’m not sure there’s a better 5pc to run than shackle on that specific setup given that riposte adds 0 sustain and inadequate damage. What are your jewelry glyphs and mundus?
Currently running Mage, 2 Regen glyphs and a dmg one.
If I run 3 dmg ones, I have to pick up atronach and give up the extra magicka.
2 Regen glyphs > atronach by small amount
2 spell dmg glyphs is a 348 spell dmg against the 2k magicka from mage which is enhanced by whatever amount (inner light, etc).
A little bit of a wash in the end, difference being with the mage I have slightly better shield.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.
It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.
Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.
It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage
Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.
5 necro 5 spinner 1 domi 3 tri-glyphs on magden. You'll have the same stam pool, much higher magika, and significantly increased damage while also increasing your HP to ~22k where you can survive 1 shots. Over 50k max mag, 2900 spell damage, perfect magika and stamina sustain and ~15k penetration at 41% crit chance.
@Brutusmax1mus I assume he's comparing those particular setups because once you've got enough sustain for both your main and off resource pools the next logical conclusion is to stack damage or add utility depending on build goals. Since shackle doesn't give enough main stat sustain alone and since the mundus stones CAN provide enough sustain on some specs its not a somewhat fair comparison. It's not apples to apples directly, but you have to consider all sources when putting together a build and if you can squeeze out an extra 80-100 effective damage by going a different route then it clearly demonstrates that shackle is not BiS but rather a cost/time effective option that gives great performance despite mathematically not being the best. Imo, this is great for the game since you don't have to go farm some crazy hard set to try out a new class, you can generally throw shackle+X on and perform within 10% of the top tier and get a feel for playstyle without having to sink tons of time or gold into a spec you may or may not enjoy
What are the pure unbuffed stats including mag and stam pools. Also the which food and mundus.
There’s a build editor. Just go plug the stats in and look.
@Malamar1229 No doubt the shackle is good, so is Riposte. I’m not sure there’s a better 5pc to run than shackle on that specific setup given that riposte adds 0 sustain and inadequate damage. What are your jewelry glyphs and mundus?
Currently running Mage, 2 Regen glyphs and a dmg one.
If I run 3 dmg ones, I have to pick up atronach and give up the extra magicka.
2 Regen glyphs > atronach by small amount
2 spell dmg glyphs is a 348 spell dmg against the 2k magicka from mage which is enhanced by whatever amount (inner light, etc).
A little bit of a wash in the end, difference being with the mage I have slightly better shield.
And if you could run 3x spell damage glyphs and mage mundus without sacrificing magika sustain wouldn’t that be a superior build? Even if you had to give up the extra off-stat sustain? In my mind it is, but I hate the current “meta” style of sorc where your basically non-threatening outside of timing your burst with an ultimate and even that is soft-countered by the general tanky meta we’re in AND by the rolling glass cannon medium builds AND can be face tanked with a shield stack+blocked reach0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Take it easy kids, save the console drama for the youtubez. Forums are for PC drama only!!!
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Lexxypwns
So, I quickly checked Amber Plasm with tri-stat food on the editor. With Wizard's.
Didn't wanna dump my Hakeijos in-game.
I'm getting around 38k mag, 25k health and 1500 magreg. 18k stam, 1100 stamreg.
I'm sorry, this is trash.
I would never drop below 40k mag, you'll hit like a wet noodle and die easily with 12k Hardened.
1500 magreg? This is not sustainable at all. And dropping spelldamage glyphs for recovery is huuugely inefficient and on top of that, drags the lousy damage down even further.
Admittedly, the stamina is nice utility, but at the big cost of your main stats.
I would run this with Witchmother's.
This gives you 2k regen, which is needed in Cyro. Mag remains at around 38k, and health drops to 23k.
Much more efficient and viable in true gameplay. Tri-stat is paper stat.
Edit:
Slight but important oversight from me:
Hardened Ward tooltip with the tri-stat is 8k, so total Hardened is a measly 10.5k, with 34 points into Bastion (14.4% shield increase).
So, yeah, even trashier.
Also, no Inner Light slotted. Would be even more favorable to Shacklebreaker, thanks to higher stats already.Edited by Lord-Otto on January 16, 2018 1:50PM3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Lexxypwns
So, I quickly checked Amber Plasm with tri-stat food on the editor. With Wizard's.
Didn't wanna dump my Hakeijos in-game.
I'm getting around 38k mag, 25k health and 1500 magreg. 18k stam, 1100 stamreg.
I'm sorry, this is trash.
I would never drop below 40k mag, you'll hit like a wet noodle and die easily with 12k Hardened.
1500 magreg? This is not sustainable at all. And dropping spelldamage glyphs for recovery is huuugely inefficient and on top of that, drags the lousy damage down even further.
Admittedly, the stamina is nice utility, but at the big cost of your main stats.
I would run this with Witchmother's.
This gives you 2k regen, which is needed in Cyro. Mag remains at around 38k, and health drops to 23k.
Much more efficient and viable in true gameplay. Tri-stat is paper stat.
Gotta say, if those figures are correct (ie include passives, cyro buffs, CP etc.) then I'm with Otto on that. I wouldn't go below 40k Max Mag on mainbar for magsorc, and 1500 mag recov is barely enough sustain for the old DW setups (without the expensive runecage).Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Lexxypwns
So, I quickly checked Amber Plasm with tri-stat food on the editor. With Wizard's.
Didn't wanna dump my Hakeijos in-game.
I'm getting around 38k mag, 25k health and 1500 magreg. 18k stam, 1100 stamreg.
I'm sorry, this is trash.
I would never drop below 40k mag, you'll hit like a wet noodle and die easily with 12k Hardened.
1500 magreg? This is not sustainable at all. And dropping spelldamage glyphs for recovery is huuugely inefficient and on top of that, drags the lousy damage down even further.
Admittedly, the stamina is nice utility, but at the big cost of your main stats.
I would run this with Witchmother's.
This gives you 2k regen, which is needed in Cyro. Mag remains at around 38k, and health drops to 23k.
Much more efficient and viable in true gameplay. Tri-stat is paper stat.
Gotta say, if those figures are correct (ie include passives, cyro buffs, CP etc.) then I'm with Otto on that. I wouldn't go below 40k Max Mag on mainbar for magsorc, and 1500 mag recov is barely enough sustain for the old DW setups (without the expensive runecage).
I'm new to the editor, so mistakes can happen.
That said, I included all class, race and other passives. This was also for stage 4 vampire and with Battle Spirit.
Notably missing is 3% on everything, as Wizard's and Amber Plasm are light only. Domihaus was medium, for half of the Undaunted passive.
Temporary buffs like Major Intellect, Continuous Attack and such are also excluded.1