shacklebreaker

Biro123 · January 2018

What is this 'magical gold food'?

Derra · January 2018

Clockwork citrus filet.

Some might find the use of healthrecovery arguable - personally i don´t. Undervalued stat.

Qbiken · January 2018

Minalan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.

It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.

Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.

It's a good set, but it's not op compared to others.

Then why is nearly everyone wearing it?

Can you name a time when ZOS didn’t overadjust a good set back to the junk pile?

This is the reasoning sets like BSW got nerfed for. Shall we nerf Julianos, Hunding´s Rage, Vicious Ophidian in PvE just because "everyone" is using them? People use certain sets because they´re considered BiS by a majority of the playerbase.

BiS is not equal unbalanced.

Syiccal · January 2018

in pvp which I mainly solo or small scale. is it really that much of a disadvantage to run light armour. heavy passivs to offer alot of health/sustain where as light will add more dmg and cheaper skills etc but I'm worried about being squishy or gankable..at the moment I'm very much tanky woth decent dmg

Datthaw · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I don’t run shackle on anything. Tri-glyphs+tri-food is enough max stam

Though the use of trifood is arguable with the introduction of the magica goldfood.

Not everyone has the money for perfect roe though. I will have to agree to an extent with the prismatic glyphs they can work well on some sets. But I feel you need to wear more max mag sets with it. Like you run warmaiden/reposte or w/e that max mag pool is gonna be kinda low

technohic · January 2018

Syiccal wrote: »

in pvp which I mainly solo or small scale. is it really that much of a disadvantage to run light armour. heavy passivs to offer alot of health/sustain where as light will add more dmg and cheaper skills etc but I'm worried about being squishy or gankable..at the moment I'm very much tanky woth decent dmg

Light armor is actually better stat wise right now but you need any combination defensive set, shields, cloak, skills that boost defenses.

I’m actually trying to decide on my magblade I’ve gotten better at , yet still not playing it to full of what it can be. I don’t typically run any shields and I’m running shacklebreaker and spinners. I’m not having issues killing people with heavy armor nor having sustained issues since I’m an Argonian using spell power pots. But I find I’m generally only exposed when killing and if I am Spotted and focused to where I can’t get into cloak; I’ve done F-ed up/marked/ detect potted; the armors not saving me as I probably have some attention at that point

Guess I’d say it’s play style preference

Brutusmax1mus · January 2018

I love shackle breaker. Good all around set. I'll take 300 effective spell dmg, 1x recovery, 1x stam recovery, 2000 stam for outnumbered play.

Biro123 · January 2018

For me the whole 'is Shacklebreaker bis'? question is simple..

Is it BiS - for some builds, yes. For others? it *nearly* is. And by that let me compare to shackle/witchmothers and amber/tri-food.

For me, yes amber/trifood gives more overall stats - especially stam/stam recov. But (and key, imho) shackle/witch gives more mag recov while giving *enough* stam/stam recov on many magica builds. Yes you can tweak bonuses elsewhere in your build - but in many cases, shackle is enough.
AND and this is the big key point... Shackle/witchmothers is VERY easy to get. especially for multiple characters. If you're poor (and PVP only) like me, tri-food that uses perfect roe is out. As is Amber. But Shackle.. I can have a set made in 10 mins..

I use it on my DW magsorc that is looking for max mag, and needs less recov than the staff-sorc. Shackle/witchmothers alone is enough mag recov, enough stam/stam recov (I don't use tri-pots either - cos again, I'm poor - just the AP mag pots).

I use it on my 2-hand melee magblade. Again, it gives enough stam/recov. and with one piece monster and one jewelry recov enchant - and that buff from a resource cap (can never remember what its called) - i get 2500 mag recov - which is enough.

The point is - its popularity isn't necessarily because it's BiS - it's because it does the job - and is easy to get.

Datolite · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Most people who wear it do it because they've heard it's a great set and an efficient way to gain stam when using Witchmother's (which I find hilarious in itself considering Witchmother's low stats, especially with the new gold food being an option).

What's the new gold food?

jhnartb14_ESO · January 2018

I use it in full heavy on my magplar. Less penetration, but more survival. Sustain is no different. Not tried full light

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Derra · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

Only true if you´re not depending on the additional magica for shields/dmg.

Trying to mirror stats (specifically stam) with amber triglyph vs shackle setups will result in ~10% less dmg for amber but way more HP.

Subversus · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stars than amber+troll-food

@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Shackle lich domi with 3 stat food and 3 spell dmg glyphs. I don't see amber being any better for that setup.

Shackle is a great set for certain builds, especially for stamina builds that need mag recovery. Shackle truth TK is also arguably BiS for stamsorc open world.

ToRelax · January 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Most people who wear it do it because they've heard it's a great set and an efficient way to gain stam when using Witchmother's (which I find hilarious in itself considering Witchmother's low stats, especially with the new gold food being an option).

What's the new gold food?

Derra wrote: »

Clockwork citrus filet.

Some might find the use of healthrecovery arguable - personally i don´t. Undervalued stat.

Lord-Otto · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

What you get in health, you lose in magicka. I prefer damage, sustain and shields over that.

Max stam pool really allows you only another break free. It doesn't regenerate. Stam recovery does. There is also no place for a monster-two-piece, especially not one that doesn't synergize well with shields.

As others have pointed out, Lich sustain kicks in late. And it offers no stamina.
While I would take this set for duels, in open world, Wizard's is better. It's not there to let you live shields down in 1v1, it's there to take pressure off of your shields when the enemy group focuses you. And thanks to sorc stigma, people generally tend to focus sorcs quite a bit.

I'm not parroting anyone, Lexxy. I came up with this setup at the same time Hexys did, before it was cool. I'm voting for this set because it has served me well.

ToRelax · January 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

What you get in health, you lose in magicka. [...]

Yes, but you get mag regen, stam regen and spell crit on top of that.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stars than amber+troll-food

@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Shackle lich domi with 3 stat food and 3 spell dmg glyphs. I don't see amber being any better for that setup.

Shackle is a great set for certain builds, especially for stamina builds that need mag recovery. Shackle truth TK is also arguably BiS for stamsorc open world.

If you’re running Lich you don’t necessarily need shackle, imo. Shackle+Domi+Tri-food is too much stam for non-block builds and I’ve already conceded shackle is great on block builds

I agree, shackle is great on stam builds. I’m simply speaking on magika builds.

@Derra when we’re talking about running riposte back bar because people are scared of burst, I think that sitting in the 25k HP range is terrific and eliminates the need for the defensive set entirely while allowing you to recoup the lost damage with an aggressive set in place of something defensive. You also have to consider a shackle+riposte needs at least 1, maybe 2 regen glyphs to sustain where an amber setup with tri glyphs would be able to drop those for damage

@Lord-Otto look man, Riposte is viable, I advised @Beardimus about putting it on his sorc long before it was running rampant on sorc, it’s a good set with damage shields. It’s defense is absolutely not needed when you can instead stack more damage and use a slightly larger health pool from tri-glyphs to push you out of “1 shot” threshold. It’s not BiS, it’s not even close. Furthermore, Bloodspawn procs off shields and is ready when they drop and you’re susceptible to burst, it adds stam regen and ulti gen which is particularly important on a class that’s ulti dependant to get kills, it’s also not BiS but if you need a defensive set it’s opportunity cost is lower than riposte by far

Subversus · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stars than amber+troll-food

@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Shackle lich domi with 3 stat food and 3 spell dmg glyphs. I don't see amber being any better for that setup.

Shackle is a great set for certain builds, especially for stamina builds that need mag recovery. Shackle truth TK is also arguably BiS for stamsorc open world.

If you’re running Lich you don’t necessarily need shackle, imo. Shackle+Domi+Tri-food is too much stam for non-block builds and I’ve already conceded shackle is great on block builds

I agree, shackle is great on stam builds. I’m simply speaking on magika builds.

@Derra when we’re talking about running riposte back bar because people are scared of burst, I think that sitting in the 25k HP range is terrific and eliminates the need for the defensive set entirely while allowing you to recoup the lost damage with an aggressive set in place of something defensive. You also have to consider a shackle+riposte needs at least 1, maybe 2 regen glyphs to sustain where an amber setup with tri glyphs would be able to drop those for damage

@Lord-Otto look man, Riposte is viable, I advised @Beardimus about putting it on his sorc long before it was running rampant on sorc, it’s a good set with damage shields. It’s defense is absolutely not needed when you can instead stack more damage and use a slightly larger health pool from tri-glyphs to push you out of “1 shot” threshold. It’s not BiS, it’s not even close. Furthermore, Bloodspawn procs off shields and is ready when they drop and you’re susceptible to burst, it adds stam regen and ulti gen which is particularly important on a class that’s ulti dependant to get kills, it’s also not BiS but if you need a defensive set it’s opportunity cost is lower than riposte by far

I have 18.3k stam currently on my magsorc build and really can't see myself playing with anything less. It gives me the ability to liberally use dark deal, roll dodge and break free without having to worry much about it.

Not to mention that a lot of times you really gotta oversustain in order to win fights, and in this case oversustaining doesn't mean I have to drop damage as I already have plenty.

Also, shackle/Amber/domi for melee magblade

Sanctum74 · January 2018

Personally I think shackle is a great set and there really isn't anything that comes close when you look at all the benefits. Amber has some better recovery, but shackle has more damage, and resources, and provides just enough recovery to get by. You also get the extra stamina which is crucial in open world unless you like laying on your back waiting to die.

Kags used to be my favorite set before shackle, but again it still doesn't compare. The extra magic with shackle makes up for the spell damage loss so your ability damage is almost the same with both sets, but with shackle you have the extra stamina to break free and roll dodge and your shields will be bigger.

I guess everybody has a different preference based on their play style, but for me shackle with spinners or spriggans always makes a great combo for any open world solo build.

WillhelmBlack · January 2018

Its great! In my top 3 of crafted sets for sure.

My DK may be switching back to it next patch for the extra stamina to block, that or Bloodthorn.

Lord-Otto · January 2018

@ToRelax
That was comparing tri-glyphs to pure magicka.

@Lexxypwns
Half of the time, the resist bonus is wasted. If not more. Quite inefficient. But more importantly, Master Destro rules out a monster two-piece. Domihaus just sits perfectly there.

I'm already not in one-shot territory with 22k health (empless) and Minor Maim. My server's best bombblade tried to bomb me once, complete with ult and me unaware. It didn't work. Every bit more single-target defense I invest in would be wasted.

The point is group pressure. That health pool, that 3k you have there, is like an additional Surprise Attack once in your whole defense. But Wizard's SCALES, covering the biggest weakness to shields. And unlike health pool, max magicka affects quasi-regenerating shields. I'd rather prefer those easily-replenishable defenses over increasing my execute range and a bit more, much harder to recover, defense.

But, opinions may differ, of course. I know Kodi's been running my setup lately. Granted, he plays different objectives, but it'd be interesting to know his experience with it. Has anyone been following his sorc stream?

Minno · January 2018

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.

Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?

Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results in

Minno wrote: »

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.

technohic · January 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.

Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?

Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results in

Minno wrote: »

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.

I keep eying it for a stamplar with the spear ultimat and to use BOL but I'd be more concerned with sustain and not to mention lower stat pools to make it worth it.

On an aside; this thread has proven interesting and I am looking at my Magblade where I do use shacklebreaker. I actually like the extra stam recovery as little as it may be; between the sneaking and break free and a roll dodge here and there; I seem to be able to keep it up. The one thing that would have me curious would be to go for a sustain set all out, then full damage jewelry glyphs with tristats on big pieces. I'm just not sure the return would be worth the effort for a broke guy like me who doesn't want to go around farming some more mats at the moment.

Minno · January 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.

Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?

Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results in

Minno wrote: »

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.

I just use Dawnbreaker. 100 cost ultimate is just designed better so much so that it offsets axiom buffing empowering sweeps. Next patch the heal will be buffed, making axiom a great set to use, of you can find the stamina elsewhere.

Plus AOE knockdown > empowering sweeps procing burning light. Even with UC you'll find you want to deny players around you so you can finish up on the target with UC with some jabs. And the dot helps on blocking/dodging builds making it more versatile than 90% of the Ultimates in the game.

Minno · January 2018

technohic wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.

Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?

Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results in

Minno wrote: »

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.

I keep eying it for a stamplar with the spear ultimat and to use BOL but I'd be more concerned with sustain and not to mention lower stat pools to make it worth it.

On an aside; this thread has proven interesting and I am looking at my Magblade where I do use shacklebreaker. I actually like the extra stam recovery as little as it may be; between the sneaking and break free and a roll dodge here and there; I seem to be able to keep it up. The one thing that would have me curious would be to go for a sustain set all out, then full damage jewelry glyphs with tristats on big pieces. I'm just not sure the return would be worth the effort for a broke guy like me who doesn't want to go around farming some more mats at the moment.

I think it might be terrible on a stamplar because I don't think they dont have benefit/access to ele drain + channeled focus giving magplars an extra 540 regen hidden behind 5280 armor buff/debuff spells. Magplars can hit 1400 mag regen but can make it feel like 1900 recovery so axiom makes more sense than shackle.

zParallaxz · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.

It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.

Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.

It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage

Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.

Minno · January 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.

It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.

Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.

It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage

Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.

Doesn't tri-food + atro/serpent mundas alone outperform shackle?
4105 mag/stam with 238 mag/stam recovery versus 129 SD/WD, 2000 mag/stam and 129 mag/stam recovery:
- trifood is 410.5 SD/WD when converted for your offense stat (with 4105 max stat for your other stat). Recovery is still 238 mag or stam pending which you select.
- shackle is 329 SD/WD when converted for your offsense stat (with only 2000 max stat for your utility stat). Recovery is only 129 for your offense stat with 129 for your utility stat).

Trifood route, despite the drop in stamina recovery, looks like it gives 81.5 SD/WD and 2105 mag/stam more than putting on 5pc of shackle. This is before putting on expensive tri-stat glyths.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

You’ll have much more stam and health with tri-glyphs than shackle gives you by running all too-glyphs. With no % based regen bonuses that 1 line of stam recovery isn’t making or breaking anything. The extra heath added by tri-glyphs also puts you in the 25k health range, meaning 1 player won’t likely be able to burn you if shields drop, this then eliminates the need for riposte as a back bar defensive set(Bloodspawn is better anyway, then you get your line of stam regen back from dropping shackle)

You’re just parroting what people have told you, but there’s no math that suggests you should use shackle on mag sorc. Amber is better in every way and Lich is 2x as much sustain without the proc, seducer out performs shackle for sustain as well. Hell, Kags is the same amount of sustain as shackle and MUCH more damage.

You have to build to sustain forever in shackle on a mag sorc because it’s not a good set and the opportunity cost of running it is too high when magika has such excellent itemization. It doesn’t add enough sustain OR damage so you have to figure out how to get both back into your build. By running a superior sustain set paired with an offensive set and an aggressive mundus+jewelry enchants seems a much more efficient way to build.

Idk, I can’t see how you’d ever lose out by swapping amber for shackle unless you’re a block-focused build that won’t get the added stam sustain from amber.

Shackle+WM is always less stats than amber+Tri-food
@Derra I was ridiculed on CWC PTS for saying people would use clockwork citrus because it’s “too expensive for pvpers” that’s why I left it out

Kags isn't "MUCH" more damage, just more.

Why does everyone assume people are running wm with it?

Shackle plus witch mothers vs amber tristat results in

Minno wrote: »

I used to try to fit shackle into my sets, till I felt the need to swap the 5pc bonus for either a damage or utility set (in my case I use Prisoners which has 1096 max stam with 2 stam recoveries, so shackle pairs worse in that regard).

For crafted sets, its probably better to roll axiom for offensive hybrid stats over shackle:
- Shackle :
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery and Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka and Maximum Stamina.

- Innate:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical and 833 Weapon Critical.
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell and Weapon Damage to your Class abilities.

That's giving up 904 mag/stam, 129 Mag/stam recovery for 271 extra SD/WD and 833 crit chance.
That 400 SD/WD gives you the option to roll a utility set/defense set to cover the build and using glyths/mundas/food to make up the max stats/recovery missing. Mostly because crit is harder to find outside set bonus and specific spells and the 400 extra damage is like crafting Julianos/hundings except better since you actually get some max stats.

Aside from sorcs, I think most classes would fair better with Axiom, if your abilities actually scale off it.

I wish Templars had a good class damage ultimate. I love axiom on my dk.

I just use Dawnbreaker. 100 cost ultimate is just designed better so much so that it offsets axiom buffing empowering sweeps. Next patch the heal will be buffed, making axiom a great set to use, of you can find the stamina elsewhere.

Plus AOE knockdown > empowering sweeps procing burning light. Even with UC you'll find you want to deny players around you so you can finish up on the target with UC with some jabs. And the dot helps on blocking/dodging builds making it more versatile than 90% of the Ultimates in the game.

Minno wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I think all magicka characters have been utilising this set.

It’s a little too good, to the extreme that no other set is worth slotting on magicka characters. I expect it to get nerfed, sort of like the old trainee set when everyone ran that.

Don’t be surprised when the fifth piece bonus gets cut to 1K magicka and stam each.

It’s not that good though. For most specs it doesn’t add enough sustain or damage, this means you still need to incorporate both into your build. Tri-glyphs are a much more efficient way to incorporate needed stamina into magika builds imo(along with tri-foods on block heavy builds) allowing you to run a 5pc that either gives adequate sustain or damage

Ehh I disagree. Can u show me the stats of a build where triglyphs has outperform shacklebreaker.

Doesn't tri-food + atro/serpent mundas alone outperform shackle?
4105 mag/stam with 238 mag/stam recovery versus 129 SD/WD, 2000 mag/stam and 129 mag/stam recovery:
- trifood is 410.5 SD/WD when converted for your offense stat (with 4105 max stat for your other stat). Recovery is still 238 mag.
- shackle is 329 SD/WD when converted for your offsense stat (with only 2000 max stat for your utility stat). Recovery is only 129 for your offense stat with 129 for your utility stat).

Trifood route, despite the drop in stamina recovery, looks like it gives 81.5 SD/WD and 2105 mag/stam more than putting on 5pc of shackle. This is before putting on expensive tri-stat glyths.

Why are we comparing a food mundus combo to a 5 pc bonus when all of them can be used together?

Minalan · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a hybrid set and therefore compliments hybrid setups more.

Domi? Hybrid.
Wizard's? Hybrid.

With tri-glyphs you're forgetting you ONLY get finite max stam. Shackle and Amber give you constant recovery, far more useful in prolonged fights.

The max magicka is also super important, you know that. You want as much mag as you can get, and tri-glyphs aren't cutting it, they're inefficient. Shackle and Amber come with "free" stamina boni, making those juicy 40k+ mag pools easily possible.

Amber > Shackle
Tri-glyphs >shackle.

Only true if you´re not depending on the additional magica for shields/dmg.

Trying to mirror stats (specifically stam) with amber triglyph vs shackle setups will result in ~10% less dmg for amber but way more HP.

Thanks Derra, I figured it would be something like this. Less Max Magicka for some health, not a good trade in my opinion, but that’s all that it is.