Quantum_V wrote: »

Agree on most points.

Thing is there's little reason to play a stamDK when you can do everything better with stam Warden. The arguments hovering above DKs overall performance in pvp always congregate into the same point: It's an outdated class.[/

Dks are not bad, they're just outdated when compared to the current state of the game

• Sustain is tough as we depend on battle roar and have expensive skills - but there's no dynamic ulti regen anymore. (+nerf to battle roar)
• Major mending made DKs brawlers - oops, wardens got it better.
• we had high burst damage tough, leap is undodgeable - wait, wardens have a even bigger burst potential

No point in playing DK (specially stamDK) now...

Just update the class to the current state of the game. Updating passives could be a great way to start!

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Stam DK isn't totally without use in PVP, but it's constantly getting pushed back to use heavy armor to 1vX multiple or hoping friends don't show up to finish the fight for their buddies so they can teabag you.

For damage DOTs in general give good pressure if you can hit your targets, but enemies dodge roll or put up major evasion to ignore the hits, even dodging the damage ticks in the past. Purging also removes the effectiveness of the DK, which means templars and wardens you need to keep constant pressure up to make sure they have to keep clensing.atop of this DKS are also great damage when using heavy attacks, but most heavy attacks take too long for PVP and you'll get CCED or dodges unless your doing things like canceling with a gap closer, which I'm still not sure is not an exploit.

The DK also has a limited number of Class CCs, one being the ultimate and 2 magicka. Stonefist and petrify work ok for this, but you have limited magicka to start with. That leaves weapon abilities like magnum shot or dizzying swing to help fill the gap. I should mention chains is OP for group plan, but lacks effectiveness for 1v1 and also has some annoying bugs trying to pass thresholds like gate doors. Players have also complained about being lagget after pulled.

AOEwise, DKS are lacking. Noxious breath and leap are the main two while magicka has the rest, which most won't use anyway. Weapon skill wise we're also limited as steel tornado is stamina heavy and most bow abilities as static location.

So, where does this leave the DK? A position where it can't burst and has to keep up constant DOTS on a player but can't AOE effectively so you need to single target down players as they run into a group of their teammates. So most play tanky characters to chase or to run away and kite when multiple show up. If you're looking to duel a DK can seem to hold theur own in a lot of cases, but they fall short on the open world competition unless you get someone that is really chasing after them and ignoring their resources.


How can we fix this? Not sure. Messing with damage or effects risks tipping the balance for PVE. But here are some possible items:

Deep breath: make a morph & leave as a magicka ability but have it scale on weapon damage and stamina. When used it will reduce the cost of the next X abilities based on the number of targets hit. X is the number of abilities it effects, wit a possible cap. would give a unique skill that aids other high stamina cost abilities like caltrops or steel tornado. It also wouldn't reduce its self or restoration stamina that would result in a perma block situation.it could potentially still restore health or interrupt, depending on balance.

Igneous weapons: we all use the molten morph for boosting heavy attacks, in magicka & stamina builds. Set Igneous to give brutality and boost light attacks. Ithe should be high enough that PVE won't want it but high enough to make a difference here in pvp.

Flames of Oblivion: this is falling out of favor as a PVE skill and even the healing morph is laughable to most. My thought is it should work set a burning debuff that prevents enemies from stealth information and casts motes of fire at stealthed enemies. But that sound like a damaging version of mages light, it lacks anything unique to a stamina DK


Now for other abilities I think we could do with more debuffs like minor defile or something unique like minor Enervation, cowardice, uncertainty, etc. to raise the cost on some abilities or to reduce critical ratings/damage. Yes they can be purged but Purging isn't healing or damaging.

Anyhow, I think a solution or two that can help the Stam DK when they redo the class lines, hopefully they won't take all year.

even for a dot build, bursting is key.
That is the reason most dot builds are stamblades or stamsorcs with dual wield/2h setups and they make it even stronger with the use of weapon poisons and suprise attack/flurry spam for even more pressure.

those builds made me stop playing stamDK as a dot build, because they were more effective than me at dotting people to death.

noxious breath is a laughable dot compared to the things I listed above, and I mainly used it for major fracture, then later I left it for puncture, which is hella easier and cheaper to use ,
but the venomous claws is competitive with other dots , only problem is, venomous claws does most of its damage after the first 5 seconds, Its added pressure as the time goes on, BUT, here is the problem with this, people purge, shield spam, or they just cloak to completely negate the damage from it.

that leaves stamDK dots almost useless for PvP, but very strong for PvE, because mobs wont purge, they wont cloak, they wont put up 3 shields to negate the crits from your dots. mobs will just sit and eat all the damage.

I recently tried a stamDK build that uses wrecking blow for empowered leaps, and petrify as a main CC, and yes, it is a medium armor build. You don't need cloak to survive on medium. Thats a lie bad stamblades use to justify their cloak spamming.
While I did find decent success with it, I realized my stam warden was doing much higher damage and didnt even need the empower from wrecking blow. Which led me back to my first question; why play stamDk over anything else?

There is no right answer, to that question.

llElLoboll wrote: »

I saw it mentioned once but just because there is a meta that does not mean you have to play the meta. No-one is "forced" into playing heavy and having to use forward momentum. Is stamdk in a bad spot? Yes it is but you can still make very tanky high damage builds in medium. So again I agree stam dk needs help but I hate seeing people seemingly blindly following a meta they don't like just because they don't see another way to do something. I honestly tend to disagree with most things considered meta for one reason or another.

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Nerf wardens and DKs (and most likely other classes) will start to feel better in PvP.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Wings needs snare immunity and duration reduced to 4 seconds. Igneous needs 6 seconds major mending and a 15% cost increase. Maybe a stone fist/lava whip stam morph(although this last one combined with the first two may make SnB+DW heavy DK in 7th+Fury+Troll the new meta)

Battle roar needs to be useful and worth building to capitalize on, at present it’s just a nice bonus but unless you’re using a defensive ultimate it’s not enough to soft reset a fight in the way it used to.

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Them patch notes are gonna come out and none of this stuff is gonna be addressed.