thatlaurachick wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Fair point, if Johnny does not buy the motif from the Crown Store, or is not willing to respec after learning it.

Or just have skill points, they are not difficult to come by. Dungeon quests, Skyshards, zone quests, plus PvP all award Skyshards. You almost have to willfully ignore all the ways to get skill points and ONLY PvP to not have enough.

What I love about arguments like this, and with the whole "gold is easy to get" argument, is that if these things are so easy to get, why even bother with them? What is the point of locking something behind a mechanic that is described as "not difficult to come by"?

We end up with sort of a dichotomy where the very argument supporting their use puts into question whether they are even adequate for that use.

Soooo - only the "leet" should be able to play the game Got it.

Your arugment is very weak, either you are too lazy to too unmotivated to get things. There aren't any really high barriers in ESO - unless you want a broken build and rquires THE BESTEST of everything. Your choice.

And no, I don't think anyone will come looking for crafters for outfits. Most people won't even learn full motifs. And Susy over here didn't grind up to 50 using dolmens, she did delves and had a lot more skill points to put into 1 crafting skill. She also learned that decon goes a LOOOONG way, especially if you hav emax level friends.

What are you talking about? I think you quoted the wrong message?

I realize ESO is an MMO and socializing is encouraged, but there's a certain satisfaction about being a full 9-trait crafter with every skill line maxed. When I want something made, I make it. No waiting around, no asking around guild or zone chat. If there is no other incentive to become a crafter, the convenience of it should be enough.

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

I realize ESO is an MMO and socializing is encouraged, but there's a certain satisfaction about being a full 9-trait crafter with every skill line maxed. When I want something made, I make it. No waiting around, no asking around guild or zone chat. If there is no other incentive to become a crafter, the convenience of it should be enough.

And that's fine. But there is also nothing wrong with enjoying crafting for others. I make a decent "income" selling mats (mostly alchemy) and motifs, but I'd like to use all the recipes I know; more often than crafting food for myself and furniture when I buy a new home. However, most players don't understand (or ignore) the time, money, and effort that goes into acquriing enough motifs and recipes to be able to say "Sure, I can make anything."

I want to think furniture crafting was ZOS way of reviving crafting services - there are literally thousands of furntiure recipes alone, and paying almost a million gold for some of the rarest recipes to make 1 for yourself is silly. However, this backfired (see other posts). I believe Outfits is ZOS trying to kill crafting for others (crafting services) entirely. Which makes me sad. Sure, I can make 95% of what I need/want in game (let me know when flowers have recipes) but it's a let down given how much time it takes to grind motifs. I'm working on Gold Coast motifs for my second-tier crafter and even when doing all 4 quests daily, it takes *weeks* for 1 motif page of either Order of the Hour or Minotaur to drop.

So yay if you only want to craft for yourself. That does not mean it's wrong to want to do something more with crafting than make a new outfit every few months.

I think I worded that improperly. No, I know I worded it improperly.

I didn't mean to imply that people should only learn crafting to become self-sufficient, or that I only enjoy crafting for myself. The whole point of leveling up the crafting skill lines initially was so that I could hopefully be of some use to someone down the road. I enjoy helping others. The self-sufficiency is just a fringe benefit.

I don't think the outfit system is going to kill crafting for others because (hopefully) the game will continue to add new players, and, as you mentioned, the gold and time sink that is required to obtain all the motifs in the game is very cost prohibitive to all but the longest-tenured, seriously interested players. I've lost track of the millions in gold and hours in gameplay I've spent to acquire motifs, I usually only buy a few chapters a week to keep my rainy-day fund somewhat liquid. Because this motif knowledge is required for the outfit system to work, those who asked for your services to craft armor before to gain a certain look, will probably continue to do so for quite some time because it will take them awhile to acquire the motifs for their outfits, if they even choose to do so.

In my opinion, the outfit system is a direct reward to master crafters who have the entire arsenal of styles at their disposal from day one. Will there be some negatives? Sure. I look for the value of rarer style materials (defiled whiskers, dragon scute, etc) to plummet because the outfit system no longer requires them to change the style. Master writs and the armor you will be called to craft for people without the outfit capability will still ensure they don't disappear completely, however.

My one complaint with the newest update involves the Vvardenfell furnishing plans for writ vouchers. Had they made the plans bound upon opening the envelope, this would have opened the door for a lucrative furnishing market for crafters who do master writs with regularity. As it is, with the plans being able to be sold, this creates a short-term financial windfall for the first ones who can buy and sell them, but will eventually lead to the value of the plans dropping by significant margins and the demand for pre-crafted furniture to dry up as more and more people learn the plans.

Okay, so I rambled on a bit there, but I understand your concern to maintain a market for crafting services. I guess I just don't see the outfit system impacting it that much because the people who have access to the best outfit options probably weren't the ones asking for you to craft for them anyway. I hope this proves true, but only time will tell. If crafting does in fact die, make sure you call me out and I will dutifully eat crow. Just not the Brass Fortress crow, I kinda like him.

Feric51 wrote: »

My one complaint with the newest update involves the Vvardenfell furnishing plans for writ vouchers. Had they made the plans bound upon opening the envelope, this would have opened the door for a lucrative furnishing market for crafters who do master writs with regularity. As it is, with the plans being able to be sold, this creates a short-term financial windfall for the first ones who can buy and sell them, but will eventually lead to the value of the plans dropping by significant margins and the demand for pre-crafted furniture to dry up as more and more people learn the plans.

I agree with most of this..... as someone who's main interests in the game are crafting to furnish my houses, and thieving and selling stolen loot to support my habit. However, as the market currently stands, I can sell a high demand purple plan for the same amount I could earn by crafting and selling 150-300 of the items themselves.... and that doesn't even include the price of mats in most cases. How long would that take? My current strategy is to learn the ones I will actually use for my own purposes, and sell the ones I won't (can you say ugly organic Telvanni furniture)! Others happen to love that style, so they will pay well for them. Everybody wins.

OTOH, if the plans were to become BoP, at what point do you gamble 50 vouchers a pop to get those one or two plans you still don't know? Are you going to get gems (or writ voucher refunds - perhaps 10 back for every 50 spent) for duplicates? Or are you going to pay the guy that loots pockets and cabinets for 8 hours a day six or seven figures to save your vouchers? Some things to think about.

Waffennacht wrote: »

@davey1107 advice works if AND ONLY if

You have access to those major trader spots that charge 10k per week in guild dues.

Follow his advice without a those traders and you'll make nothing

I tend to not agree with this, as most hardcore crafters or flippers won't be spending hours browsing traders in person, but will rather be refreshing the TTC website search engine to see exactly where that plan they want is located, how much they are asking, and how long it's been up. Capital cities are great for casual foot traffic, but the person who knows exactly what they want will be scouring the web and porting to that back alley trader spot and snatching up that undervalued purple plan within five minutes of listing.

(The only caveat with this is that most of the successful flippers belong to the elite and expensive guilds, who CAN afford the high traffic locations. So the percentage of quality plans will be higher in these places as a result. But, the prices will be higher, too. The bargains are usually found on the mom and pop guild traders, sold by the folks who don't use pricing services and may not realize what they actually have.)

davey1107 wrote: »

But there is an opportunity for those who want to make money on furnishings on a smaller scale. For anyone interested in this, my advice would be to collect 3-5 desirable recipes...purple works better...things like beds, unique items, wardrobes, etc. Make a 2-3 of them, price them well, then see if they sell. A small scale seller can probsbly just find 5 items total to list, then make stacks and keep a single store stocked with 2-3 of each item at any given time.

And I would add perhaps selling certain things in pairs or bunches, like a pair of nightstands or bookshelves, 2 pillows, groups of four light fixtures, six matching chairs for a large dining table, etc. This will not only expand your 30 slots to hold more potential profit, but it makes things convenient for your buyers. I will pay a little extra for a complete set of something, rather than waste my time traveling to and sorting through multiple guild stores to try and build a full set of something.