RIP Crafting

CaffeinatedMayhem

So many people know motifs after the juiblee page dump last year, there's nothing special about knowing "rare" styles.

With Morrowind, purple furnishing patterns all but disappeared from the game. Even green and blue aren't that common, except in the Vvardenfell tombs. Don't even tell me to "steal from houses" - what do you think I did to get all the furniture recipes I have and how do you think I know they disappeared? There is no such thing as a 6 month, 1000 hour "bad RNG" streak.

With outfits, the only advantage to massive motif knowledge is master writ drop rate. It's nice I've had a long streak of better valued writs, but I'm not banking on this staying.

Come back to this post in a year, I predict that we will be talking about crafting dailies and master writ vendor being discontinued. Need better armor? Buy "armor upgrade" tokens from the crown store.

Might as well decon all those crafting stations.

Tasear

Yes crafting seem well.. not amazing.

davey1107

I’m hoping for some QoL improvements that revitalize crafting, at least a little.

For example, putting the item style on the tool tip would be a small change that would help. I sell a lot of armor, but have no incentive to sell rare armor because buyers in guild,stores won’t know what it is.

Furnishing revitalized crafting a lot for me, personally. I sell a ton of furnishings ($500k/week). That’s been a fun crafting side game for me. The recipe rng is bonkers...I’m not opposed to it, I like the idea of only a few people being able to make some things...then hopefully they sell them and help boost the economy. I was lucky to get a hlallu filled bookcase...Ive sold like 500 or more of those.

I am REALLY concerned about the update 17 preview notes, because it says that the outfit system will sell outfit change tokens for crowns. I’ll wait to pass judgment, but ( @ZOS_GinaBruno ) I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER pay for the stupid overpriced garbage tokens.

phaneub17_ESO

A dressing room would be nice, most equipment you have no idea what it looks like until you actually equip it or go to another third party site that made the effort to collect and show off items. There's still gender, body sliders, and race discrepancies as well making it even more difficult to tell from collected pictures if it'll look like that on you.

WrathOfInnos

You seem to be thinking about this backward. Only crafters will be able to fully utilize the outfit system. Non-crafters do not know the motifs to create nice outfits, and therefore must continue to pay crafters to make the fancy styled gear (since they will not have an outfit over it).

The system encourages more people to learn crafting and motifs, which may reduced the need to pay crafters in the long term. I wouldn't call this a problem though, anyone who wants to can already max crafting skills in a few days, and research traits in a few weeks (longer to research 9 traits, but nobody really needs more than 6 anyway).

Edit: Also want to point out that non-maxed crafters cannot even learn purple or gold motifs.

SGT_Wolfe101st

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

A dressing room would be nice, most equipment you have no idea what it looks like until you actually equip it or go to another third party site that made the effort to collect and show off items. There's still gender, body sliders, and race discrepancies as well making it even more difficult to tell from collected pictures if it'll look like that on you.

From the ESO Live, the Outfit System will let you preview everything, even if you don't know the style, so this is a Dressing Room of sorts. You can "create" an outfit in Daedric or Xivkin and see what it will look like on your character, that's a nice touch, at least you'll know the look, if you like it you can then seek the motif.

Apache_Kid

davey1107 wrote: »

I’m hoping for some QoL improvements that revitalize crafting, at least a little.

For example, putting the item style on the tool tip would be a small change that would help. I sell a lot of armor, but have no incentive to sell rare armor because buyers in guild,stores won’t know what it is.

Furnishing revitalized crafting a lot for me, personally. I sell a ton of furnishings ($500k/week). That’s been a fun crafting side game for me. The recipe rng is bonkers...I’m not opposed to it, I like the idea of only a few people being able to make some things...then hopefully they sell them and help boost the economy. I was lucky to get a hlallu filled bookcase...Ive sold like 500 or more of those.

I am REALLY concerned about the update 17 preview notes, because it says that the outfit system will sell outfit change tokens for crowns. I’ll wait to pass judgment, but ( @ZOS_GinaBruno ) I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER pay for the stupid overpriced garbage tokens.

Of course the guy who was lucky enough to get one of the special rare DLC furnishing plans and make 500k off of it a week is fine with the idea of the DLC furnishing plan drop rates being so disgustingly low in order to drive players to the crown store.

CaffeinatedMayhem

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You seem to be thinking about this backward. Only crafters will be able to fully utilize the outfit system. Non-crafters do not know the motifs to create nice outfits, and therefore must continue to pay crafters to make the fancy styled gear (since they will not have an outfit over it).

Uhhhh - I haven't gotten a "cool armor" crafting request in a long time. Most people don't care since they wear a costume. Now they will get 1 outfit crafted and be done. Also, with the page dump last year, EVERYONE has motifs like Akaviri now, not just PvPer and those willing to pay 100k per page.

If you're going to say "well when new motifs come out" - that's only profitable for the first week. Those who can afford 2-5 million to buy all the pages, or are lucky enough to get drops, profit. The rest of us just sigh and grind for a few months.

"WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The system encourages more people to learn crafting and motifs, which may reduced the need to pay crafters in the long term. I wouldn't call this a problem though, anyone who wants to can already max crafting skills in a few days, and research traits in a few weeks (longer to research 9 traits, but nobody really needs more than 6 anyway).

Uh, yes, this is why crafting is dying out. Crafters (those who like making things for others) aren't necessary and have no place in ESO, since anyone can do it, easily.

But you're wrong about nobody needing more than 6. The one thing I craft now is Shacklebreaker, but again, after a few months requests drops as anyone who wanted a CP160 set, has one.

Didgerion

thatlaurachick wrote: »

So many people know motifs after the juiblee page dump last year, there's nothing special about knowing "rare" styles.

With Morrowind, purple furnishing patterns all but disappeared from the game. Even green and blue aren't that common, except in the Vvardenfell tombs. Don't even tell me to "steal from houses" - what do you think I did to get all the furniture recipes I have and how do you think I know they disappeared? There is no such thing as a 6 month, 1000 hour "bad RNG" streak.

With outfits, the only advantage to massive motif knowledge is master writ drop rate. It's nice I've had a long streak of better valued writs, but I'm not banking on this staying.

Come back to this post in a year, I predict that we will be talking about crafting dailies and master writ vendor being discontinued. Need better armor? Buy "armor upgrade" tokens from the crown store.

Might as well decon all those crafting stations.

And how exactly outfits kills crafting?

It will bust it up - you just don't get the system yet.

After outfits are introduced the Style master craters will have lots of style requests - like "LF Glass Helm crafter" requests - so a crafter can create it and you can bind to your outfit.

The outfits is promoting crafters. If there were no outfits but just armor transmog then the crafters would be jobless as they had nothing to do except crafting 9pc armor sets.

Rohamad_Ali

Didgerion wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

So many people know motifs after the juiblee page dump last year, there's nothing special about knowing "rare" styles.

With Morrowind, purple furnishing patterns all but disappeared from the game. Even green and blue aren't that common, except in the Vvardenfell tombs. Don't even tell me to "steal from houses" - what do you think I did to get all the furniture recipes I have and how do you think I know they disappeared? There is no such thing as a 6 month, 1000 hour "bad RNG" streak.

With outfits, the only advantage to massive motif knowledge is master writ drop rate. It's nice I've had a long streak of better valued writs, but I'm not banking on this staying.

Come back to this post in a year, I predict that we will be talking about crafting dailies and master writ vendor being discontinued. Need better armor? Buy "armor upgrade" tokens from the crown store.

Might as well decon all those crafting stations.

And how exactly outfits kills crafting?

It will bust it up - you just don't get the system yet.

After outfits are introduced the Style master craters will have lots of style requests - like "LF Glass Helm crafter" requests - so a crafter can create it and you can bind to your outfit.

The outfits is promoting crafters. If there were no outfits but just armor transmog then the crafters would be jobless as they had nothing to do except crafting 9pc armor sets.

Not to mention the new housing storage chests can be bought with master writs .

davey1107

@Apache_Kid

The rarity of furnishing recipes doesn’t intend to make some players ultra-rich and powerful because they have recipes others don’t, it’s supposed to encourage people to construct and list things in the stores and to create a vibrant economy.

I set the prices on my “hlaalu bookcase, orderly” so that I make about $1k on each piece after the cost of mats. I shop stores often, and most every rare furnishing in the game can be found at similar pricing. I think part of the problem is that people don’t seem to realize this is supposed to be a trading game, not a recipe collection game. I don’t make $500k a week off that one bookcase...I make maybe $35k /wk.

Because I like the craft and sales game, I have 25+ items in rotation that I list in three guild stores with traders in wayrest, mounrhold and rawlkha, and that’s how I have that income.

Anyone can play that game...the more we help the economy the better the game is. For those who want to try and aren’t Econ nerds, here you go:

- do master writs, buy purple recipe grab bags.

- Look up guild prices of the items you draw. How desirable are they? How valuable?

- Learn the valuable recipes, sell the junky ones. Note that writ vouchers are worth about $1k each. Purple recipes are worth $25k+. If you get an item you don’t want to sell, just sell the recipe and use the profits to buy more master writs. This will speed things up.

- sometimes you will draw a tremendously valuable recipe. If you know it or if it’s not economical to make it to sell, sell the recipe for a fortune and use that money to buy a different recipe that costs a fortune. I drew a second fire pit last month, and sold it for $300k, which I used to buy a recipe for a filled Redguard bookcase.

- consider the cost of making the item. If you want to be really rough, just consider furnishing mats to cost $100 each. Most purple quality items cost around $8k to make depending on which station.

- dedicate a specific number of slots in your store. List a variety. Don’t list ten copies of one style of canopy bed, list two beds then two each of four other things. Then as items sell, replace that item.

The furnishing system really revitalized crafting and the economy for me, because I don’t have to go spend a lot of time grinding for each piece. I can always keep guild stores stocked...if I run low, it’s just an issue of visiting a craft station.

Apache_Kid

davey1107 wrote: »

@Apache_Kid

The rarity of furnishing recipes doesn’t intend to make some players ultra-rich and powerful because they have recipes others don’t, it’s supposed to encourage people to construct and list things in the stores and to create a vibrant economy.

I set the prices on my “hlaalu bookcase, orderly” so that I make about $1k on each piece after the cost of mats. I shop stores often, and most every rare furnishing in the game can be found at similar pricing. I think part of the problem is that people don’t seem to realize this is supposed to be a trading game, not a recipe collection game. I don’t make $500k a week off that one bookcase...I make maybe $35k /wk.

Because I like the craft and sales game, I have 25+ items in rotation that I list in three guild stores with traders in wayrest, mounrhold and rawlkha, and that’s how I have that income.

Anyone can play that game...the more we help the economy the better the game is. For those who want to try and aren’t Econ nerds, here you go:

- do master writs, buy purple recipe grab bags.

- Look up guild prices of the items you draw. How desirable are they? How valuable?

- Learn the valuable recipes, sell the junky ones. Note that writ vouchers are worth about $1k each. Purple recipes are worth $25k+. If you get an item you don’t want to sell, just sell the recipe and use the profits to buy more master writs. This will speed things up.

- sometimes you will draw a tremendously valuable recipe. If you know it or if it’s not economical to make it to sell, sell the recipe for a fortune and use that money to buy a different recipe that costs a fortune. I drew a second fire pit last month, and sold it for $300k, which I used to buy a recipe for a filled Redguard bookcase.

- consider the cost of making the item. If you want to be really rough, just consider furnishing mats to cost $100 each. Most purple quality items cost around $8k to make depending on which station.

- dedicate a specific number of slots in your store. List a variety. Don’t list ten copies of one style of canopy bed, list two beds then two each of four other things. Then as items sell, replace that item.

The furnishing system really revitalized crafting and the economy for me, because I don’t have to go spend a lot of time grinding for each piece. I can always keep guild stores stocked...if I run low, it’s just an issue of visiting a craft station.

What if I told you that it's actually not supposed to encourage people to construct and list things in the stores and to create a vibrant economy but actually make players who are farming for the DLC style furnishings become so frustrated that they are driven to the crown store to purchase furnishings for their home and that because it happened to make you rich, you're defending that disgusting business tactic. Wow. Crazy how that happened.

davey1107

And how exactly outfits kills crafting?

It will really depend on the specific system. It could be good for crafting, or horrible.

Most items that will be “outfitted” are bound. What would be ideal is a system that allows players to pass bound items to crafters for alteration. I don’t see them doing this. The initial announcement makes it sound like if I want a high elf style armor piece to be glass, I need to learn glass...and possibly I’ll have to purchase a crown store appearance change token.

If the system that rolls encourages trading and socialization between players, I’ll be thrilled. If it encourages buying things in the crown store, I’ll politely tell the dev team where they can put their tokens.

WrathOfInnos

thatlaurachick wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You seem to be thinking about this backward. Only crafters will be able to fully utilize the outfit system. Non-crafters do not know the motifs to create nice outfits, and therefore must continue to pay crafters to make the fancy styled gear (since they will not have an outfit over it).

Uhhhh - I haven't gotten a "cool armor" crafting request in a long time. Most people don't care since they wear a costume. Now they will get 1 outfit crafted and be done. Also, with the page dump last year, EVERYONE has motifs like Akaviri now, not just PvPer and those willing to pay 100k per page.

Wouldn't the "1 outfit and done" comment apply to the situation where everyone wears a costume? How is anything changing for crafted gear? If they hid it under a costume they will now just hide it under an outfit.

thatlaurachick wrote: »

"WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The system encourages more people to learn crafting and motifs, which may reduced the need to pay crafters in the long term. I wouldn't call this a problem though, anyone who wants to can already max crafting skills in a few days, and research traits in a few weeks (longer to research 9 traits, but nobody really needs more than 6 anyway).

Uh, yes, this is why crafting is dying out. Crafters (those who like making things for others) aren't necessary and have no place in ESO, since anyone can do it, easily.

Lol, so more crafters = crafting "dying out"? I think I understand what this thread is about now. More crafters in game means less profit for current crafters, right?

So it's more along the lines of RIP crafting for profit, as we welcome in a crafting Renaissance all players can participate in.

boombazookajd

Oh look, another "the game as we know it is coming to an end" post.

If I had a dime for every one of these...

Elsonso

Didgerion wrote: »

And how exactly outfits kills crafting?

It will bust it up - you just don't get the system yet.

After outfits are introduced the Style master craters will have lots of style requests - like "LF Glass Helm crafter" requests - so a crafter can create it and you can bind to your outfit.

The outfits is promoting crafters. If there were no outfits but just armor transmog then the crafters would be jobless as they had nothing to do except crafting 9pc armor sets.

I don't really think that Outfits promotes crafting. It doesn't kill Crafting, but really doesn't help it, either.

Collecting motifs will still be a thing, though.

I am convinced that Crafting suffers from an internal studio problem where there is no influential person who really promotes it. When new features are introduced that impact or align with crafting, that person would champion the crafting cause. This sort of makes crafting a secondary hobby feature of the game, not a main system. Furniture was the biggest place we saw this, but it started with the resource nodes. Outfits and housing storage are just the most recent.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You seem to be thinking about this backward. Only crafters will be able to fully utilize the outfit system. Non-crafters do not know the motifs to create nice outfits, and therefore must continue to pay crafters to make the fancy styled gear (since they will not have an outfit over it).

Gotta agree with this.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Uhhhh - I haven't gotten a "cool armor" crafting request in a long time. Most people don't care since they wear a costume. Now they will get 1 outfit crafted and be done. Also, with the page dump last year, EVERYONE has motifs like Akaviri now, not just PvPer and those willing to pay 100k per page.

Wouldn't the "1 outfit and done" comment apply to the situation where everyone wears a costume? How is anything changing for crafted gear? If they hid it under a costume they will now just hide it under an outfit.

And this.

And the Jubilee drops were random, both in the types dropping and the pages - I was running Crafting Writs on 5 characters (so 30/day) + a few miscellaneous other dailies, every day of the event, and I got three Akaviri pages for the whole thing. I did finish the Motif that way, but that's because I PvPed for twelve of the fourteen pages beforehand and got lucky. The number of people getting a complete Motif purely out of Jubilee drops is going to be insignificant, never mind getting a Motif they want.

CaffeinatedMayhem

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it's more along the lines of RIP crafting for profit, as we welcome in a crafting Renaissance all players can participate in.

As someone who likes crafting for profit (and I'm not the only one by far), yeah, it's the end of one of my "fun" things in game, making stuff for others.

Furniture crafting was DOA, armor crafting died years ago. You probably weren't around when most people didn't bother with crafting at all, before daily writs. I made at aroun 20k per day just crafting sets, in addition to selling. I haven't made more than 5k on a set in a long time, and I craft maybe once every few weeks now. The only thing people ask for these days is research items, which they expect for free. Even when crafting a set, when I provide the MM prices, people balk at paying even half price, not to mention tipping. So yeah, not being able to trade services for gold is ruining my fun. I don't think crafting should have a high barrier, and for the most part it doesn't. Being patient while research completes isn't difficult.

The thing that makes outfits different from costumes, is that this sounds bound. We'll see on Monday, but given that transmutation is bound, ZOS seems on a kick to kill crafting services. You'd think (essentially) removing furniture plans from the game would drive up demand for crafted furniture, but it's done the opposite. Many pieces won't even sell for CraftCost, the crafter is taking a loss by even listing them.

Outfits aren't a single strike that kills crafting services, but it's just one nail in the coffin. I have worked very hard to grind and buy motifs, even when they were new and expensive. Now, that's all kind of useless.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

And the Jubilee drops were random, both in the types dropping and the pages - I was running Crafting Writs on 5 characters (so 30/day) + a few miscellaneous other dailies, every day of the event, and I got three Akaviri pages for the whole thing. I did finish the Motif that way, but that's because I PvPed for twelve of the fourteen pages beforehand and got lucky. The number of people getting a complete Motif purely out of Jubilee drops is going to be insignificant, never mind getting a Motif they want.

Ok, you missed the point. All those pages were dumped to the market. Not only did motif values plummet (Akavari is now 20-30k per page, not 100k) but everyone snapped up cheap pages. To learn the motifs. I completed 5 or 6 mitofs from my 4 crafters that run writs daily, and I didn't sell any of my extras because the prices were so bad. This is an MMO, no one exists in a vacuum. You may not personally buy from guild traders, but you are in the minority.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

Been dead since release!

Feric51

thatlaurachick wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

And the Jubilee drops were random, both in the types dropping and the pages - I was running Crafting Writs on 5 characters (so 30/day) + a few miscellaneous other dailies, every day of the event, and I got three Akaviri pages for the whole thing. I did finish the Motif that way, but that's because I PvPed for twelve of the fourteen pages beforehand and got lucky. The number of people getting a complete Motif purely out of Jubilee drops is going to be insignificant, never mind getting a Motif they want.

Ok, you missed the point. All those pages were dumped to the market. Not only did motif values plummet (Akavari is now 20-30k per page, not 100k) but everyone snapped up cheap pages. To learn the motifs. I completed 5 or 6 mitofs from my 4 crafters that run writs daily, and I didn't sell any of my extras because the prices were so bad. This is an MMO, no one exists in a vacuum. You may not personally buy from guild traders, but you are in the minority.

You bring up a very valid point. I was able to complete 12/14 Akavirii motif chapters from the event even though I only personally received maybe 2-3 from my own personal reward boxes. I hit all the "small-time" trader stalls and found many chapters for less than 5k each from people who didn't realize the intrinsic value of Akavirii chapters. I wonder sometimes if that single event is wholly responsible for the long-term devaluation of that single motif chapter prices though. After all, it was pre-Morrowind and the supposed huge crop of new players that weren't privy to the jubilee and it's wondrous influx of motif chapters. The prices should have crept back up now that they're largely restricted to AP purchase-only again.

As someone who has neither the time nor skill to farm the DLC dungeon motifs like silken ring, dreadhorn and bloodforge, I'm personally hoping for another, similarly-formatted jubilee again this year to help me complete those motifs (and dare I say Buoyant Armiger?!?!?!). After all, I'm sure Dragon Bones, Summerset Isles "Expansion chapter", and Q3/Q4 dlc's will bring even more motifs to the pool. The madness never ends!

Elsonso

thatlaurachick wrote: »

So many people know motifs after the juiblee page dump last year, there's nothing special about knowing "rare" styles.

With Morrowind, purple furnishing patterns all but disappeared from the game. Even green and blue aren't that common, except in the Vvardenfell tombs. Don't even tell me to "steal from houses" - what do you think I did to get all the furniture recipes I have and how do you think I know they disappeared? There is no such thing as a 6 month, 1000 hour "bad RNG" streak.

With outfits, the only advantage to massive motif knowledge is master writ drop rate. It's nice I've had a long streak of better valued writs, but I'm not banking on this staying.

Come back to this post in a year, I predict that we will be talking about crafting dailies and master writ vendor being discontinued. Need better armor? Buy "armor upgrade" tokens from the crown store.

Might as well decon all those crafting stations.

The Outfits make it so that it is no longer necessary to farm or obtain crafting style materials, including the Crown Mimic Stones. One can now get any old bits of junk armor and weapons (from a style perspective) and make them look like the rarest of the styles.

I don't know if they will discontinue the crafting dailies and master writs, but I certainly expect that the next major nerf for crafting will be to remove styles from crafting. It is redundant. All styling of equipment can be done from the Outfit station, and it makes for a nice gold sink.

boombazookajd

lordrichter wrote: »

The Outfits make it so that it is no longer necessary to farm or obtain crafting style materials, including the Crown Mimic Stones. One can now get any old bits of junk armor and weapons (from a style perspective) and make them look like the rarest of the styles.

I don't know if they will discontinue the crafting dailies and master writs, but I certainly expect that the next major nerf for crafting will be to remove styles from crafting. It is redundant. All styling of equipment can be done from the Outfit station, and it makes for a nice gold sink.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of crafting or armor styles. I can only think this will be good for crafters:

Johnny is going to go to an outfit station and see his armor in daedric style or primal or whatever and be like oh thats cool! Only to find out he can't make his armor that way. So, seeing how he'd look in whatever style tickles Johnny's interest, he seeks out a crafter to make him look like the badass soulless adventurer he always dreamed of!

Well...we can hope anyway.

Elsonso

boombazookajd wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The Outfits make it so that it is no longer necessary to farm or obtain crafting style materials, including the Crown Mimic Stones. One can now get any old bits of junk armor and weapons (from a style perspective) and make them look like the rarest of the styles.

I don't know if they will discontinue the crafting dailies and master writs, but I certainly expect that the next major nerf for crafting will be to remove styles from crafting. It is redundant. All styling of equipment can be done from the Outfit station, and it makes for a nice gold sink.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of crafting or armor styles. I can only think this will be good for crafters:

Johnny is going to go to an outfit station and see his armor in daedric style or primal or whatever and be like oh thats cool! Only to find out he can't make his armor that way. So, seeing how he'd look in whatever style tickles Johnny's interest, he seeks out a crafter to make him look like the badass soulless adventurer he always dreamed of!

Well...we can hope anyway.

No.

Johnny wants a fancy armor style, and finds out he does not have the motif. He buys the motif, or farms it, and then makes an outfit from it. He never has to even visit a crafting station, and does not need any style material.

This is why crafting using styles is redundant, and why they can remove it from equipment crafting, along with all style materials. The only reason to craft in a style will be for writs, and that is easily fixed.

boombazookajd

lordrichter wrote: »

No.

Johnny wants a fancy armor style, and finds out he does not have the motif. He buys the motif, or farms it, and then makes an outfit from it. He never has to even visit a crafting station, and does not need any style material.

This is why crafting using styles is redundant, and why they can remove it from equipment crafting, along with all style materials. The only reason to craft in a style will be for writs, and that is easily fixed.

I said we can hope...

Let us see after the roll out of 17. Then we will know for sure. I know one thing, I'm buying every freaking motif I can get my hands on because prices are about to skyrocket.

Elsonso

boombazookajd wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

No.

Johnny wants a fancy armor style, and finds out he does not have the motif. He buys the motif, or farms it, and then makes an outfit from it. He never has to even visit a crafting station, and does not need any style material.

This is why crafting using styles is redundant, and why they can remove it from equipment crafting, along with all style materials. The only reason to craft in a style will be for writs, and that is easily fixed.

I said we can hope...

Let us see after the roll out of 17. Then we will know for sure. I know one thing, I'm buying every freaking motif I can get my hands on because prices are about to skyrocket.

I just want to be clear. I've seen some eroding of the equipment Crafting System over the years, which I think is intended to make it less complicated, and the game less dependent upon it. To that end, moving all Style customization to Outfits makes a single, simple, interface for all armor and weapon styles. This can be extended for all crafted and non-crafted armor and weapons in the game. In addition, if they remove the need for Style materials, they can remove those materials. This also solves an inventory problem that the game has with non-ESO Plus members and reduces the number of items that they have to manage for Crafting styles, as well as eliminating the need to dream up new materials for future styles.

Now, I really don't want this. Personally, I want a more intricate crafting system, worthy of a top tier RPG game.

Jaraal

lordrichter wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The Outfits make it so that it is no longer necessary to farm or obtain crafting style materials, including the Crown Mimic Stones. One can now get any old bits of junk armor and weapons (from a style perspective) and make them look like the rarest of the styles.

I don't know if they will discontinue the crafting dailies and master writs, but I certainly expect that the next major nerf for crafting will be to remove styles from crafting. It is redundant. All styling of equipment can be done from the Outfit station, and it makes for a nice gold sink.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of crafting or armor styles. I can only think this will be good for crafters:

Johnny is going to go to an outfit station and see his armor in daedric style or primal or whatever and be like oh thats cool! Only to find out he can't make his armor that way. So, seeing how he'd look in whatever style tickles Johnny's interest, he seeks out a crafter to make him look like the badass soulless adventurer he always dreamed of!

Well...we can hope anyway.

No.

Johnny wants a fancy armor style, and finds out he does not have the motif. He buys the motif, or farms it, and then makes an outfit from it. He never has to even visit a crafting station, and does not need any style material.

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Somber97866

Xing a way to seperate pve from pvp and 90percent of the problems are gone

Elsonso

Jaraal wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The Outfits make it so that it is no longer necessary to farm or obtain crafting style materials, including the Crown Mimic Stones. One can now get any old bits of junk armor and weapons (from a style perspective) and make them look like the rarest of the styles.

I don't know if they will discontinue the crafting dailies and master writs, but I certainly expect that the next major nerf for crafting will be to remove styles from crafting. It is redundant. All styling of equipment can be done from the Outfit station, and it makes for a nice gold sink.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of crafting or armor styles. I can only think this will be good for crafters:

Johnny is going to go to an outfit station and see his armor in daedric style or primal or whatever and be like oh thats cool! Only to find out he can't make his armor that way. So, seeing how he'd look in whatever style tickles Johnny's interest, he seeks out a crafter to make him look like the badass soulless adventurer he always dreamed of!

Well...we can hope anyway.

No.

Johnny wants a fancy armor style, and finds out he does not have the motif. He buys the motif, or farms it, and then makes an outfit from it. He never has to even visit a crafting station, and does not need any style material.

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Fair point, if Johnny does not buy the motif from the Crown Store, or is not willing to respec after learning it.

CaffeinatedMayhem

lordrichter wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Fair point, if Johnny does not buy the motif from the Crown Store, or is not willing to respec after learning it.

Or just have skill points, they are not difficult to come by. Dungeon quests, Skyshards, zone quests, plus PvP all award Skyshards. You almost have to willfully ignore all the ways to get skill points and ONLY PvP to not have enough.

boombazookajd

thatlaurachick wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Fair point, if Johnny does not buy the motif from the Crown Store, or is not willing to respec after learning it.

Or just have skill points, they are not difficult to come by. Dungeon quests, Skyshards, zone quests, plus PvP all award Skyshards. You almost have to willfully ignore all the ways to get skill points and ONLY PvP to not have enough.

They aren't but they are easier to plop into things like steel tornado or flurry for example. Particularly because Johnny won't be able to put 9 points into tailoring until he decons A TON of stuff. By that time are they even still playing? I wonder how many players even get to 6 traits in research to build an entire relatively useful set.

I really do think they should have made this something a crafter can do for someone but I can only hope that it allows players to see what a full daedric, xivkyn, primal, mercenary, whatever rare style looks like and after learning that they can't do it until they sink A LOT of time into the game, they seek out a crafter to make them armor in that style.

@thatlaurachick people may come looking (or you can advertise) for an entire armor set in whatever style they'd like. Again, that's what I am hoping for in this situation, to hopefully make crafters relevant again.

Elsonso

thatlaurachick wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

But does Johnny want to spend nine skill points to be able to learn the motif?

Fair point, if Johnny does not buy the motif from the Crown Store, or is not willing to respec after learning it.

Or just have skill points, they are not difficult to come by. Dungeon quests, Skyshards, zone quests, plus PvP all award Skyshards. You almost have to willfully ignore all the ways to get skill points and ONLY PvP to not have enough.

What I love about arguments like this, and with the whole "gold is easy to get" argument, is that if these things are so easy to get, why even bother with them? What is the point of locking something behind a mechanic that is described as "not difficult to come by"?

We end up with sort of a dichotomy where the very argument supporting their use puts into question whether they are even adequate for that use.