An Argument for Zaan

Irylia · January 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

just a new way for us nightblade vampires to die almost instantly to fire damage.
what happen? some one got bored of killing us nightblade vampires the same old way and needed a new way do it?
oh well, nothing can do about it.

You have two reasons for being a vamp nightblade
1. You are a gankblade utilizing stealth movement speed passive in vamp tree.
2. You erp

DeadlyRecluse · January 2018

For those on PTS, how does Zaan interact with cloak? I know it can be purged, but can you cloak the beam?

Inig0 · January 2018

I would suggest the range being decreased and the damage being decrease. Currently in MOST fights range dds will use it if it goes live how it is. Make the range 7m perhaps and reduce its damage increase to between (35-45%) OR reduce its base.

This set 100% needs a nerf it is way too strong. It literally is at the level of damage where its out dps stam sets on a stam dd. -_-

glavius · January 2018

Vosital wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Viper Sting set was hated in PVP and yet it did much less damage

This needs serious adjustment if we want to avoid an epic fail in PVP

Viper was instantaneous burst damage that would proc on-hit. This is a DoT that starts out weak and grows stronger over 5 seconds.

The two are not even remotely comparable.

Viper 6.400 tooltip unmodified.
Zaan 46.440 tooltip unmodified.

Slight difference?????

And Viper was too strong and nerfed to be a dot also. And is still quite strong btw.

SodanTok · January 2018

glavius wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Viper Sting set was hated in PVP and yet it did much less damage

This needs serious adjustment if we want to avoid an epic fail in PVP

Viper was instantaneous burst damage that would proc on-hit. This is a DoT that starts out weak and grows stronger over 5 seconds.

The two are not even remotely comparable.

Viper 6.400 tooltip unmodified.
Zaan 46.440 tooltip unmodified.

Slight difference?????

And Viper was too strong and nerfed to be a dot also. And is still quite strong btw.

46k? It is like 71k since it hits 6 times.

//edit, yeah makes sense

glavius · January 2018

46440 no cp no modifiers

Dracane · January 2018

You are complaining based on numbers. Few of you have actually tested the set in pvp and probably won't be able to in a normal pvp environment on pts.

Once it goes live, its niche usefullness in pvp will become appearent. It's basically the opposite of what elemental storm was. Nobody was considering it while it was on pts and then on live, it turned out to be OP (only because it was stacked)
I'm convinced, this set will turn out to be the contrary. It hits for around 10-14k on the last hit on a target dummy with elemental drain on it. That's 4-5k max against a naked pvp player, probably much less, because there is CP and much more resistance.
And OP has described, why it's not OP compared to existing dps sets, as it is strictly single target and has a long cooldown.

I must ask for your contenance.

Waffennacht · January 2018

Can't test, but it definitely sounds OP

Stamden · January 2018

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% 20% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

Waffennacht · January 2018

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

What about a melee range Templar weaving destro staff with sweep?

glavius · January 2018

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

Minimum crit on cp unless you are *** =22%

Gilvoth · January 2018

i will be laughing so hard when i see this proc on a bow user when he is far away sniping on a hill and you see that massive fire shooting at no one lol.

Dracane · January 2018

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

It always comes as a surprise, if anyone agrees with me.

Nihility42 · January 2018

Joker99 wrote: »

You need to proc it first to be efective, with that low crit in PvP it’s quite hard to proc so it’ll likely not be as powerful.

Most people running at least 30-40 percent crit chance. If you're light weaving that means one in every three actions, on average, procs it? Not exactly hard to do.

Waffennacht · January 2018

Nihility42 wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

You need to proc it first to be efective, with that low crit in PvP it’s quite hard to proc so it’ll likely not be as powerful.

Most people running at least 30-40 percent crit chance. If you're light weaving that means one in every three actions, on average, procs it? Not exactly hard to do.

And it's not like you need to proc it on cool down lmao

mikeb16_ESO77 · January 2018

PVE damagewise looking at potential damage per minute, unless my math is entirely off Zaan does ~2,84 times more damage then Grothdarr on single target which seems reasonable if both sets procs on cooldown. 3 mobs or more and the AoE set is better.

For PvP, Id urge people to try it out first. I realize its hard to test it in a full on cyradiil setting but just get a friend and try to duel with it. Test the counters purge, dodge, knock back, cloak and so on and return with your stories. Right now its the dummy that rules the argument. I think once people learn to counter it will just be another monster set. Grothdarr cant be canceled or purged and if you get out of range you can still gap close and continue to do damage unlike Zaan.

Im not saying that the set should be released in its current state but right now no one seems to be actually trying it out besides on the dummys.

VilniusNastavnik · January 2018

*** PvP. PvPers are ruining PvE.

Unless Zos separates the two systems, one system for PvE, the other for PvP. All these nerfs and balances for PvP end up negatively impacting PvE. All the buffs for PvE end up generating salt from PvP.

ak_pvp · January 2018

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

*** PvP. PvPers are ruining PvE.

Unless Zos separates the two systems, one system for PvE, the other for PvP. All these nerfs and balances for PvP end up negatively impacting PvE. All the buffs for PvE end up generating salt from PvP.

PvE has hurt PvP too you salty little carebear. For example when procs were to be nerfed, they chose to remove crit, which was to lower DPS in PvE, whilst leaving them broken and ignoring PvP suggestions until much later. In DrB, they changed offbalance, which made power lash OP, which will most likely end up with a PvP nerf too, a problem each way.

SodanTok · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

You are complaining based on numbers. Few of you have actually tested the set in pvp and probably won't be able to in a normal pvp environment on pts.

Once it goes live, its niche usefullness in pvp will become appearent. It's basically the opposite of what elemental storm was. Nobody was considering it while it was on pts and then on live, it turned out to be OP (only because it was stacked)
I'm convinced, this set will turn out to be the contrary. It hits for around 10-14k on the last hit on a target dummy with elemental drain on it. That's 4-5k max against a naked pvp player, probably much less, because there is CP and much more resistance.
And OP has described, why it's not OP compared to existing dps sets, as it is strictly single target and has a long cooldown.

I must ask for your contenance.

Eh, you were the one running around the destro ult thread complaining how weak it is

Waffennacht · January 2018

What are you PvE players worried about?? There is no content you cannot complete, you don't need OP BS, it doesn't affect your X,Y,B repeat content,

But it will F up the PvP that requires balance and the ability to adjust to a constantly CHANGING environment

acw37162 · January 2018

It needs to be tones down.

There is no argument for it in PVP or PVE.

IF they don't tone it down then quite a few other sets need to toned up and that is just back to proc set nightmares and free damage.

It is so good in its current form stamina uses would us it and sacrifice the spell crit one piece.

The damage need to come down and the 1 piece should have weapon crit and spell crit.

acw37162 · January 2018

This set will get he attention because its is head an shoulders damage wise better then any other monster set but the other set will eventually be on almost every PVP build.

A huge AOE with minor defile and minor main, it wizards riposte in a two piece with minor defile, it is just gross.

Waffennacht · January 2018

acw37162 wrote: »

This set will get he attention because its is head an shoulders damage wise better then any other monster set but the other set will eventually be on almost every PVP build.

A huge AOE with minor defile and minor main, it wizards riposte in a two piece with minor defile, it is just gross.

A few of the changes, and sets, I can't believe ever made it off the drawing board smh

DeadlyRecluse · January 2018

acw37162 wrote: »

This set will get he attention because its is head an shoulders damage wise better then any other monster set but the other set will eventually be on almost every PVP build.

A huge AOE with minor defile and minor main, it wizards riposte in a two piece with minor defile, it is just gross.

The other set is good, but lacks a lot of value due to:

1. two debuffs that are pretty common in group play already (maim is everyone from either riposte or choking talons, defile from a durok's monkey is gaining popularity, as is the AOE defile from wardens)
2. A proc mechanic that is very easy to ignore in small group/solo play due to the general emphasis on mobility. The expansion of the pool is so slow and it starts so small.

It's still good, and I wouldn't be surprised if having 1 of them in group play becomes common, but it won't replace Grothdar as an AOE damage set for group play, and it don't see it having a strong place in solo/duo play--that's my conclusion anyway. We'll see sooner than later.

Dracane · January 2018

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

You are complaining based on numbers. Few of you have actually tested the set in pvp and probably won't be able to in a normal pvp environment on pts.

Once it goes live, its niche usefullness in pvp will become appearent. It's basically the opposite of what elemental storm was. Nobody was considering it while it was on pts and then on live, it turned out to be OP (only because it was stacked)
I'm convinced, this set will turn out to be the contrary. It hits for around 10-14k on the last hit on a target dummy with elemental drain on it. That's 4-5k max against a naked pvp player, probably much less, because there is CP and much more resistance.
And OP has described, why it's not OP compared to existing dps sets, as it is strictly single target and has a long cooldown.

I must ask for your contenance.

Eh, you were the one running around the destro ult thread complaining how weak it is

Indeed and I still stick to this statement. Just because it gets stacked by 10 people, doesn't mean it's actually good. When I use it on my own, I kill nothing with it anymore. It was exactly where it should have been when it was released.

I'm sure they could have made it so, that a player can only be damage by 1 instance of this ult per second. Instead, they have killed the ult for everyone who is not running in a zerg and the problem remains.

pieratsos · January 2018

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% 20% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

I can play a magblade and literally force proc both Zaan and Caluurion at the same time with cloak lotus fan light attack. Could throw in a Soul Assault before you even realise what happened and then good luck running away with a 70% snare and taking 10k+ dmg every second.

This set is broken in both PVE and PVP. It doenst "spice things up" in PVE. It doing the exact opposite. It literally beats every other monster set by 3-4 times. Its even BiS for stam builds. Im still amazed by the fact that people still continue to defend a proc set like that after the last procalypse and call it a perfect solution to certain classes "weaknesses". Yeah lets sh*t on all the classes and get them all nerfed to the ground because of every stupid broken set and the stupid broken CP system.

pieratsos · January 2018

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

PVE damagewise looking at potential damage per minute, unless my math is entirely off Zaan does ~2,84 times more damage then Grothdarr on single target which seems reasonable if both sets procs on cooldown. 3 mobs or more and the AoE set is better.

For PvP, Id urge people to try it out first. I realize its hard to test it in a full on cyradiil setting but just get a friend and try to duel with it. Test the counters purge, dodge, knock back, cloak and so on and return with your stories. Right now its the dummy that rules the argument. I think once people learn to counter it will just be another monster set. Grothdarr cant be canceled or purged and if you get out of range you can still gap close and continue to do damage unlike Zaan.

Im not saying that the set should be released in its current state but right now no one seems to be actually trying it out besides on the dummys.

We have already tested it against players. Depending on builds its doing anywhere from 15k-30k dmg. The word broken doesnt even begin to describe those numbers.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2018

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% 20% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

@DDuke

DDuke · January 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamden wrote: »

Wow @Dracane, never thought we'd agree on anything.

By the way guys, here is one thing that EVERYONE is forgetting:

You need to crit to proc it. Why is this relevant? For all of you guys complaining about PvP, think about how this would work with the setups that would use it- Sword and Board. This means you are relying off the ~10% 20% weapon crit you have, meaning this thing is barely ever going to proc on those setups.

So if you want this to work, you're going to have to use Destro. And believe me, I have tried many times to make a Destro PvP mDK build work. It is terrible.

@DDuke

Destro mDK is love

Ocelot9x · January 2018

Maybe with this set+the 12k proc set baddies can finally get their kills (hi again procalypse)