Are we going to finally get some Race balancing this PTS? Post suggestions

Twohothardware · January 2018

asneakybanana wrote: »

IMO really the only race that isnt viable right now is Nord which I think definitely needs some love as there are other races that make better tanks. All the other classes are good at their designated role, whether dps or heals or tank and magicka or stamina.

The other races mentioned like Khajiit and Imperial are usable but they're definitely not balanced in comparison to Argonian and Redguard.

Subversus · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.

You know what's funny? Argonians have better magicka passives than altmer, the masters of magicka. Think about that for a second ;);)

Argonian actually has considerably better Magicka passives than High Elf at least for PvP. Before you even get to the advantage Argonian has in not just Magicka but Stamina sustain the 5% Healing + 3% Magicka on Argonian also gives larger heals than +10% Magicka on High Elf. The DPS advantage the High Elf has from a few more percentage damage is not noticeable outside of Trials. PvP is all about sustain and healing.

Exactly!!!!!

Enslaved · January 2018

Altmer

10% max magicka
10% magicka recovery
all elemental damage is boosted by 4%

Breton

10% max magicka
3% less cost to magicka skills
spell resistance +3960

Dunmer

9% max magicka and 2079 fire resistance
6% max stamina
7% fire damage and 2% other elements damage

Saxhleel

9% health and 1485 disease resistance
3% magicka and 4620 stats return when u drink potion
5%Healing done and received

So, Altmer has 7% more magicka compared to Saxhleel, breton has advantage as well and Dunmer is on 6% more magicka compared to Saxhleel. On a strictly magicka char 6-7% more magicka is not something to neglect no matter what some of u say.
Let's see how these fare on sustain. Altmer has 10% magicka recovery, and that is superior to any other race we have when it comes down to sustaining magicka. Breton has some reduction that is maybe not very strong compared to Altmer's 10% magicka recovery bonus, but it is better than pre morrowind since we cant reduce the cost of our skills in cp tree anymore. Dunmer has zero sustain bonuses and is by far in worst place compared to other magicka races. And Saxhleel has 4620 stat return every 45 seconds, when potion is off cooldown.
4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have? First of all, let's see how are some of these races ment to be played. Altmer has bonuses for ranged magicka characters, any halfwit could see that. Breton is ment to be magicka support, its passives are very good for templars of all kinds, melee or ranged. For a long time, it was race of choice for PvP since it has spell damage reduction, cost reduction and high magicka pool. Add there that 1% AP bonus and there u have it. Dunmer are ment to be one of 3 possible hybrid races ESO have, with Imperial and Saxhleel. As DK's are viable only in melee/mid range, and Dunmer have fire damage bonus that is very strong, Dunmer have that stamina bonus, so they can use 1-2 more blocks compared to more ranged choice such is Altmer. And then, you have Saxhleel. HP bonus and that stat return screams melee, if u ask me. Add there small bonus to disease resistance and there u have it - Saxhleel is ment to be played as a tanky char. Do they excel in that role? Yes, atm. Were they crap tier for years? Yes, they have. Can they outperform Altmer, Dunmer or breton in PvE damage wise? Lol, off course they cannot. Are they played as DDs in PvP? In almost all encounters I had with Saxhleel enemies, they were tanks. DK tanks, Warden tanks, Templar tanks, even saptanks. Are they hard to kill? Hell yeah. Can they kill you? Highly unlikely, if you are not terrible in PvP. So please, l2p. Do not waste time on tanks, use lightning balistas/poisons/light attacks with siphoning in cp activated - do not be part of QQ whinetrain that would result in nerfing Saxhleel back to crap tier race. Let's face it, 4620 health is just 1 attack from non existant, 4620 stamina is just 2-3 blocks away from non existant and 4620 magicka every 45 seconds is not nearly as "special" as some of not that good players would want you to think. Leave Saxhleel alone, their passives make tanking what it should be - a fun activity, not a complete chore.

Xvorg · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

But it wasn't Argonian fault, was ZoS changes to sustain what put them ahead.

I remember not so long ago when people adviced NOT running argonian because how bad they were. Finally they have certain use and instead improving the rest, we call for nerfs?

Onefrkncrzypope · January 2018

Nord passive: when taking damage you gain x amount of Magicka. It will help with tanking

Nox_Noir · January 2018

Buff Bosmer plx:
I play two stamsorcs on live, a woodelf and a redguard, i know precisely the difference those races make:
Sadly Bosmer in PVE currently is worse than redguard in terms of BOTH damage AND sustain.
It would make sense that one race was the better sustainer, the other slightly harder hitting, but currently bosmer is neither...

Redguard stats:
+10% stam
+9% regen (884 total on my redguard sorc)
adrenaline rush (~120 stam/s on average according to my CMX parses, which is equivalent to +240 stam rec)

Bosmer stats:
+6% stam (the 4% less stam boil down to roughly 1.6% less dps potential)
+21% regen (945 total on my bosmer sorc, only 61 stam rec more than redguard base rec)
+useless stealthy passive (10% more damage from stealth)

Sustain:
The average adrenaline rush uptime absolutely beats the little bit of extra regen that bosmer gets.
The 21% look good on paper but in reality it's almost nothing. It boils down to 61 extra stam reg compared to redguard,
And factor in the average 240 pseude stam rec redguard gets from adrenaline rush, it makes the bosmer passive pale in comparison
Now, you could tell me that the regen from bosmer becomes better than adrenaline rush on a build with higher base regen,
because it is a percantage amplifier so becomes bigger the more the regen already is, which is true! - BUT: not until you hit some ridiculous number like 4000 stamina recovery...
Then there is some very niche situations where you might say bosmer sustain is better, like a ranged build... but those are unfortunetely dead in PVE since morrowind update...

Damage:
Obviously 4% less max stam is bad, but also:
The stealthy passive is absolutely useless in PVE!
I'm thinking that this passive could change to grant a small critical damage bonus (3% - 5%)
This would make up for the other losses and still nicely stick to the lore theme

I don't care what they do, either significantly improve bosmer sustain, buff max stam to at least 10% or ideally even more since sustain is already worse than redguard too, OR change stealthy passive to a small critical damage bonus instead of sneak damage. Any of those 3 options would work imo...

Twohothardware · January 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

But it wasn't Argonian fault, was ZoS changes to sustain what put them ahead.

I remember not so long ago when people adviced NOT running argonian because how bad they were. Finally they have certain use and instead improving the rest, we call for nerfs?

I'm calling for Argonian to stay the same and the other races to get buffs to make them more competitive outside of just paper DPS in PvE. Race balance is more important in PvP than it is anywhere else because in PvE a few percent difference in DPS has no impact on whether or not you complete the content but in PvP one Race being able to stay alive and sustain much easier than another makes it to where that person lives and you die if both players are equal in skill.

Bloodystab · January 2018

Argonian & OP , Pick one.

I play Argonian Stamblade only since day 1 - i remember when our only "Good" passive was Swimming speed xD

If i would be a Epeen elitist in PvE / PvP i would change race to Redguard / Khajit / Bosmer.

Qbiken · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

We've had some major PTS patches this past year come and go and just about each one myself and others have asked for another Race balance passover to correct some imbalances that have been further perpetuated by other core changes in the game such as the major overhaul of Stamina/Magicka sustain.

There's one race in particular, the Argonian, that you may have noticed the huge influx of as of late for PvP. ESO steamers and build publishers recommending Argonian as best for not just Magicka builds but for Stamina and Tank. The reason being is the Argonian Resourceful passive which returns 4620 Health, Stamina, and Magicka when you consume a Potion. You essentially get almost a Tri Stat potion on top of the resources from the actual Potion you use.

Why is this a big deal? Because when Stamina/Magicka sustain was rebalanced in the effort to make players invest more into Recovery instead of just running double damage sets they seemed to forget that there is two races in the game where you can get a lot of Resource return regardless of your Recovery stat, Argonian and Redguard. In the case of Argonian you not only get the sustain for your main stat but you get that same Recovery for Health, Stamina, and Magicka. That is why Argonian has gained such massive popularity lately because in PvP the #1 factor is sustain now, not a few percentage differences in DPS.

Now I'm not calling for a nerf to Argonian or Redguard but with all these major changes to sustain the other races need buffs to offset that huge difference in resource return. Namely races like Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton are the ones furthest behind and in need of some kind of buffs. Wood Elf, Orc, and High Elf could use minor buffs as well either in Recovery or Damage.

As another major update rolls around here at the first of the year I hope that we can see at least some look this PTS at what can be changed to bring more balance between the Races.

The bolded part is the reason people want nerfs......streamers use them and therefore they must be unbalanced.......

Racials are fine and not nearly as OP as people claim.

eserras7b16_ESO · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

Subversus, you're ALONE in this. Argonians were completely out of the game since they nerfed them back in 2014 and there's been 2 years in wich they have been the shittiest race in the game by far. Now they are playable.

Dunmers have always been the best in PvE (for obvious reasons on the DD department, specialy DK's) and in some PvP builds.

Altmers have always been the best in PvE (for obvious reasons on the DD department, specialy Sorcerers, and Magplars) and in some PvP builds.

Redguards have always been best in both PvE and PvP (#regen)

Bretons have always been strong, specialy in PvP (4k magicka resistance for free

) apart from more magicka % and less costs on abilities.

etc.

Every race have had their love and they still do. It's true that some classes could use a slight buff, but NERFING ARGONIANS?!?!? What is in your head? Do you have a problem now because it's the 1st time you actualy see argonians winning you on duels?!? Fact is it might be the first time you actually see Argonians as a played class and fighting up, BUT THAT SHOULD BE JUST RIGHT, SHOULDN'T IT?????

eserras7b16_ESO · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

I honestly don't want to see a nerf to Argonian because it just leaves these other races still feeling medeocre. I want to see Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton especially to get some racial buffs that makes them feel as unique and rewarding as when playing on Argonian. But if ZOS can't figure out how to do that then just buff the existing racial passives.

You know what's funny? Argonians have better magicka passives than altmer, the masters of magicka. Think about that for a second ;);)

Altmer:

Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Increased Magicka Recovery by 9%
Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%.

Argonian:

Increases Max Magicka by 3%
Increases Max Health by 9%
Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina
Increases your healing done and received by 5%.

Look, Altmer is more DD oriented, full magicka character: Glasscannon, you name it.
Argonian is more versatile, also gives un some health and stamina, but on the magicka department is clearly worse. More oriented towards a hybrid, hard to kill healer, etc.

They're just diferent. If you like more Argonians passives because you want to be more tanky and have higher stamina pool and health, you either put some points in Health attributes, or use some stamina regen gear or tristat pots, etc. Or you can create an Argonian but stop spamming ******. Thank you.

Faulgor · January 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have?

102 h/m/s per second is 204 recovery. You'd need 2000 magicka recovery to match that with an Altmer, and that's just for magicka.
So yes, it is absolutely superior, as far as recovery goes. Whether that makes Argonians superior overall, I couldn't say.

Subversus · January 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

Altmer
10% max magicka

10% magicka recovery

all elemental damage is boosted by 4%

Breton
10% max magicka

3% less cost to magicka skills

spell resistance +3960

Dunmer
9% max magicka and 2079 fire resistance

6% max stamina

7% fire damage and 2% other elements damage

Saxhleel
9% health and 1485 disease resistance

3% magicka and 4620 stats return when u drink potion

5%Healing done and received

So, Altmer has 7% more magicka compared to Saxhleel, breton has advantage as well and Dunmer is on 6% more magicka compared to Saxhleel. On a strictly magicka char 6-7% more magicka is not something to neglect no matter what some of u say.
Let's see how these fare on sustain. Altmer has 10% magicka recovery, and that is superior to any other race we have when it comes down to sustaining magicka. Breton has some reduction that is maybe not very strong compared to Altmer's 10% magicka recovery bonus, but it is better than pre morrowind since we cant reduce the cost of our skills in cp tree anymore. Dunmer has zero sustain bonuses and is by far in worst place compared to other magicka races. And Saxhleel has 4620 stat return every 45 seconds, when potion is off cooldown.
4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have? First of all, let's see how are some of these races ment to be played. Altmer has bonuses for ranged magicka characters, any halfwit could see that. Breton is ment to be magicka support, its passives are very good for templars of all kinds, melee or ranged. For a long time, it was race of choice for PvP since it has spell damage reduction, cost reduction and high magicka pool. Add there that 1% AP bonus and there u have it. Dunmer are ment to be one of 3 possible hybrid races ESO have, with Imperial and Saxhleel. As DK's are viable only in melee/mid range, and Dunmer have fire damage bonus that is very strong, Dunmer have that stamina bonus, so they can use 1-2 more blocks compared to more ranged choice such is Altmer. And then, you have Saxhleel. HP bonus and that stat return screams melee, if u ask me. Add there small bonus to disease resistance and there u have it - Saxhleel is ment to be played as a tanky char. Do they excel in that role? Yes, atm. Were they crap tier for years? Yes, they have. Can they outperform Altmer, Dunmer or breton in PvE damage wise? Lol, off course they cannot. Are they played as DDs in PvP? In almost all encounters I had with Saxhleel enemies, they were tanks. DK tanks, Warden tanks, Templar tanks, even saptanks. Are they hard to kill? Hell yeah. Can they kill you? Highly unlikely, if you are not terrible in PvP. So please, l2p. Do not waste time on tanks, use lightning balistas/poisons/light attacks with siphoning in cp activated - do not be part of QQ whinetrain that would result in nerfing Saxhleel back to crap tier race. Let's face it, 4620 health is just 1 attack from non existant, 4620 stamina is just 2-3 blocks away from non existant and 4620 magicka every 45 seconds is not nearly as "special" as some of not that good players would want you to think. Leave Saxhleel alone, their passives make tanking what it should be - a fun activity, not a complete chore.

Breton has the worst sustain passives out of the 3 magicka races. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

To put it into perspective, the difference between the cost of destructive reach with a master's staff equipped between breton and altmer is... wait for it... 70 WHOOPING MAGICKA.

For 10% regeon to become better than what argonian has, 200 magicka regen (every 2 seconds), you need to have 2k mag regen buffed. That only happens on magsorc, mate.

The moment you took breton and compared it with argonian is the moment you lost all credibility

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

We are asking fr a nerf to Argonians? Really?

I erect the spine of the WTF...

Yes we are. They have the ABSOLUTE best sustain passives, more healing, 9% more hp and more mag. In what world is that a balanced class?

Subversus, you're ALONE in this. Argonians were completely out of the game since they nerfed them back in 2014 and there's been 2 years in wich they have been the shittiest race in the game by far. Now they are playable.

Dunmers have always been the best in PvE (for obvious reasons on the DD department, specialy DK's) and in some PvP builds.

Altmers have always been the best in PvE (for obvious reasons on the DD department, specialy Sorcerers, and Magplars) and in some PvP builds.

Redguards have always been best in both PvE and PvP (#regen)

Bretons have always been strong, specialy in PvP (4k magicka resistance for free ) apart from more magicka % and less costs on abilities.

etc.

Every race have had their love and they still do. It's true that some classes could use a slight buff, but NERFING ARGONIANS?!?!? What is in your head? Do you have a problem now because it's the 1st time you actualy see argonians winning you on duels?!? Fact is it might be the first time you actually see Argonians as a played class and fighting up, BUT THAT SHOULD BE JUST RIGHT, SHOULDN'T IT?????

TL DR after first 2 sentences.

You're obviously not in a skill tier where race matters anyway, I won't argue with you.

Azurya · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

We've had some major PTS patches this past year come and go and just about each one myself and others have asked for another Race balance passover to correct some imbalance......

Now I'm not calling for a nerf to Argonian or Redguard but with all these major changes to sustain the other races need buffs to offset that huge difference in resource return. Namely races like Khajiit, Nord, Imperial, and Breton are the ones furthest behind and in need of some kind of buffs. Wood Elf, Orc, and High Elf could use minor buffs as well either in Recovery or Damage.
.

up until past morrowind it was hard to find any argonians at all in the game, just as they became an issue due to sustain questions, they became an option, BUT they had that all those years before already!!!
But to end all these I-don´t-ask-for a-nerf-just for-some-rebalancing-because-I-don´t-like-to-lvl-another-char threads, let me call some facts in mind, in the end it doesn´t really matter that much what race you take, all have ups-and-downs.
Until that time, NOBODY asked for buffs for argonians! And I know some very good players who run Nords or Khajits and will kill you any time.

But to end this all, pls let us have for all races the same stats, all max health, stamina, magicka, increased recovery on all resources and the ability to have a chicken as pet. That will settle all of this "I-don´t-ask-for-a-nerf-but.."threads

Cinbri · January 2018

Since buffs to other races obviously wont happen - argonians with their potion passive must be nerfed.
And people use this stupid logic to not nerf something completely unbalanced coz unbalance make it fun over again are so fun.

Gothrock · January 2018

Argonians are OP

Argonians were designed to be magicka-oriented race as they have max magicka bonus and do not have max stamina. And now we see that a lot of decent and strong players in pvp take agronians for STAMINA characters, even with their max magicka bonus.
So when there will be popular guides, where author recommends breton or even dunmer for stamina characters and nord for magicka characters, you'll be able to say "argonians are ok". But now they are far from ok.

arkansas_ESO · January 2018

I don't get why character appearances are still tied to these huge, build-making-or-breaking buffs. It didn't matter in Skyrim where you weren't competing with anybody else, but in ESO it just feels suffocating. I feel like I'm gimping myself if I try to roll a magic character that isn't an Argonian, or a stam character that isn't a Redguard, orc, or wood elf. Why can't I look the way I want without sacrificing huge stat bonuses?

Xvorg · January 2018

Gothrock wrote: »

Argonians are OP

Argonians were designed to be magicka-oriented race as they have max magicka bonus and do not have max stamina. And now we see that a lot of decent and strong players in pvp take agronians for STAMINA characters, even with their max magicka bonus.
So when there will be popular guides, where author recommends breton or even dunmer for stamina characters and nord for magicka characters, you'll be able to say "argonians are ok". But now they are far from ok.

Let me tell you that, if you want to have all that extra recovery in an Argonian char, you also need to level up Alchemy and spend a some time getting materials, which makes the sole passive quite expensive compared with an upfront magicka/stamina regen increase.

makreth · January 2018

Khajiits need love because they are jealous and purr...............

Gothrock · January 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Gothrock wrote: »

Argonians are OP

Argonians were designed to be magicka-oriented race as they have max magicka bonus and do not have max stamina. And now we see that a lot of decent and strong players in pvp take agronians for STAMINA characters, even with their max magicka bonus.
So when there will be popular guides, where author recommends breton or even dunmer for stamina characters and nord for magicka characters, you'll be able to say "argonians are ok". But now they are far from ok.

Let me tell you that, if you want to have all that extra recovery in an Argonian char, you also need to level up Alchemy and spend a some time getting materials, which makes the sole passive quite expensive compared with an upfront magicka/stamina regen increase.

Let me tell you that - every player in this game have enough gold to use DROP potions which are VERY cheap. Dont tell me please that you do pve or pvp without using any potions, because that would be the most stupid thing that could be written here.
Even if it is true, then you should not care about race balance at all, because you dont really want to success in anything in this game.

Enslaved · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Altmer
10% max magicka

10% magicka recovery

all elemental damage is boosted by 4%

Breton
10% max magicka

3% less cost to magicka skills

spell resistance +3960

Dunmer
9% max magicka and 2079 fire resistance

6% max stamina

7% fire damage and 2% other elements damage

Saxhleel
9% health and 1485 disease resistance

3% magicka and 4620 stats return when u drink potion

5%Healing done and received

So, Altmer has 7% more magicka compared to Saxhleel, breton has advantage as well and Dunmer is on 6% more magicka compared to Saxhleel. On a strictly magicka char 6-7% more magicka is not something to neglect no matter what some of u say.
Let's see how these fare on sustain. Altmer has 10% magicka recovery, and that is superior to any other race we have when it comes down to sustaining magicka. Breton has some reduction that is maybe not very strong compared to Altmer's 10% magicka recovery bonus, but it is better than pre morrowind since we cant reduce the cost of our skills in cp tree anymore. Dunmer has zero sustain bonuses and is by far in worst place compared to other magicka races. And Saxhleel has 4620 stat return every 45 seconds, when potion is off cooldown.
4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have? First of all, let's see how are some of these races ment to be played. Altmer has bonuses for ranged magicka characters, any halfwit could see that. Breton is ment to be magicka support, its passives are very good for templars of all kinds, melee or ranged. For a long time, it was race of choice for PvP since it has spell damage reduction, cost reduction and high magicka pool. Add there that 1% AP bonus and there u have it. Dunmer are ment to be one of 3 possible hybrid races ESO have, with Imperial and Saxhleel. As DK's are viable only in melee/mid range, and Dunmer have fire damage bonus that is very strong, Dunmer have that stamina bonus, so they can use 1-2 more blocks compared to more ranged choice such is Altmer. And then, you have Saxhleel. HP bonus and that stat return screams melee, if u ask me. Add there small bonus to disease resistance and there u have it - Saxhleel is ment to be played as a tanky char. Do they excel in that role? Yes, atm. Were they crap tier for years? Yes, they have. Can they outperform Altmer, Dunmer or breton in PvE damage wise? Lol, off course they cannot. Are they played as DDs in PvP? In almost all encounters I had with Saxhleel enemies, they were tanks. DK tanks, Warden tanks, Templar tanks, even saptanks. Are they hard to kill? Hell yeah. Can they kill you? Highly unlikely, if you are not terrible in PvP. So please, l2p. Do not waste time on tanks, use lightning balistas/poisons/light attacks with siphoning in cp activated - do not be part of QQ whinetrain that would result in nerfing Saxhleel back to crap tier race. Let's face it, 4620 health is just 1 attack from non existant, 4620 stamina is just 2-3 blocks away from non existant and 4620 magicka every 45 seconds is not nearly as "special" as some of not that good players would want you to think. Leave Saxhleel alone, their passives make tanking what it should be - a fun activity, not a complete chore.

Breton has the worst sustain passives out of the 3 magicka races. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

To put it into perspective, the difference between the cost of destructive reach with a master's staff equipped between breton and altmer is... wait for it... 70 WHOOPING MAGICKA.

For 10% regeon to become better than what argonian has, 200 magicka regen (every 2 seconds), you need to have 2k mag regen buffed. That only happens on magsorc, mate.

The moment you took breton and compared it with argonian is the moment you lost all credibility

You say 3 magicka races? Let's count.

Altmer
breton
Dunmer
Saxhleel, since u compare it with fore mentioned choices

You say breton is terrible, then what about Dunmer? What sustain passive Dunmers have? NONE.
How is that worse than what bretons have? And it is rich to compare destro reach with master staff and its integrated cost reduction on breton vs altmer. Like, you could go even lower, and compare, idk, entropy?
Saxhleel is in better position than breton and there is no doubt about that. On the other hand, bretons still have 7% more max magicka and superior resistances to magicka, making them all but weak, no matter how much u qq here.
Also, let's see if breton is truly terrible compared to Saxhleel.

As u kindly stated, Saxhleel has around 200 (205) magicka return per 2 seconds ih player drink potions on cooldown.
With only one light piece equiped, in 5 h 1 m 1 l setup (tanky as shieet, PvP setup) the difference between same skill casted will be 90 magicka per skill in breton's favor, for a skill that cost 3k magicka. While in combat for same time (45 seconds, same as cooldown of a potion), how many skills would breton use? Lets make comparation

Potato tier: 1 skill every 3 seconds => 45 / 3 =15. 15 skills x 90 magicka = 1450 magicka "saved"
"reasonable" tier: 1 skill every 2 seconds => 45 / 2 = 22.5. 22.5 skills x 90 magicka ~ 2000 magicka (rounded down)
"AC pro" tier: 1 skill every 1.5 seconds => 45 / 1.5 = 30. 30 skills x 90 magicka = 2900 magicka "saved"

So, the difference between breton and Saxhleel in magicka sustain are narrowing the more skill player have. Is Saxhleel still superior in sustain? Hell yeah. Is breton worst magicka sustain class out there? Sure it is not. I understand breton templars out there crying for not being top heal class anymore, but instead of asking for buffs for your mongrel race, you scream for nerfs of Saxhleel. Pathetic, if u ask me.

arkansas_ESO · January 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

Altmer
10% max magicka

10% magicka recovery

all elemental damage is boosted by 4%

Breton
10% max magicka

3% less cost to magicka skills

spell resistance +3960

Dunmer
9% max magicka and 2079 fire resistance

6% max stamina

7% fire damage and 2% other elements damage

Saxhleel
9% health and 1485 disease resistance

3% magicka and 4620 stats return when u drink potion

5%Healing done and received

So, Altmer has 7% more magicka compared to Saxhleel, breton has advantage as well and Dunmer is on 6% more magicka compared to Saxhleel. On a strictly magicka char 6-7% more magicka is not something to neglect no matter what some of u say.
Let's see how these fare on sustain. Altmer has 10% magicka recovery, and that is superior to any other race we have when it comes down to sustaining magicka. Breton has some reduction that is maybe not very strong compared to Altmer's 10% magicka recovery bonus, but it is better than pre morrowind since we cant reduce the cost of our skills in cp tree anymore. Dunmer has zero sustain bonuses and is by far in worst place compared to other magicka races. And Saxhleel has 4620 stat return every 45 seconds, when potion is off cooldown.
4620/45 = 102 magicka, stamina and health recovery per second. Is that in any way superior to 10% magicka recovery Altmer's have? First of all, let's see how are some of these races ment to be played. Altmer has bonuses for ranged magicka characters, any halfwit could see that. Breton is ment to be magicka support, its passives are very good for templars of all kinds, melee or ranged. For a long time, it was race of choice for PvP since it has spell damage reduction, cost reduction and high magicka pool. Add there that 1% AP bonus and there u have it. Dunmer are ment to be one of 3 possible hybrid races ESO have, with Imperial and Saxhleel. As DK's are viable only in melee/mid range, and Dunmer have fire damage bonus that is very strong, Dunmer have that stamina bonus, so they can use 1-2 more blocks compared to more ranged choice such is Altmer. And then, you have Saxhleel. HP bonus and that stat return screams melee, if u ask me. Add there small bonus to disease resistance and there u have it - Saxhleel is ment to be played as a tanky char. Do they excel in that role? Yes, atm. Were they crap tier for years? Yes, they have. Can they outperform Altmer, Dunmer or breton in PvE damage wise? Lol, off course they cannot. Are they played as DDs in PvP? In almost all encounters I had with Saxhleel enemies, they were tanks. DK tanks, Warden tanks, Templar tanks, even saptanks. Are they hard to kill? Hell yeah. Can they kill you? Highly unlikely, if you are not terrible in PvP. So please, l2p. Do not waste time on tanks, use lightning balistas/poisons/light attacks with siphoning in cp activated - do not be part of QQ whinetrain that would result in nerfing Saxhleel back to crap tier race. Let's face it, 4620 health is just 1 attack from non existant, 4620 stamina is just 2-3 blocks away from non existant and 4620 magicka every 45 seconds is not nearly as "special" as some of not that good players would want you to think. Leave Saxhleel alone, their passives make tanking what it should be - a fun activity, not a complete chore.

Argonians make amazing PVP DDs because their sustain passive is a flat value while Altmer's is a percentage (and Breton's is trash due to the cost reduction calculation changes done in the Morrowind patch.) Whereas as an altmer I have to slot magic recovery glyphs and sustain sets like Lich to get the full value of my racials, as an Argonian I can build fully for damage and still sustain because my racials don't require any investment like that. I actually hit harder, sustain better, and am tankier on my Argonian with 740 magic recovery than on my high elf with 1800 recovery.

Dracane · January 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Gothrock wrote: »

Argonians are OP

Argonians were designed to be magicka-oriented race as they have max magicka bonus and do not have max stamina. And now we see that a lot of decent and strong players in pvp take agronians for STAMINA characters, even with their max magicka bonus.
So when there will be popular guides, where author recommends breton or even dunmer for stamina characters and nord for magicka characters, you'll be able to say "argonians are ok". But now they are far from ok.

Let me tell you that, if you want to have all that extra recovery in an Argonian char, you also need to level up Alchemy and spend a some time getting materials, which makes the sole passive quite expensive compared with an upfront magicka/stamina regen increase.

Please revert this statement, you can't be serious.
Who doesn't have Alchemy 50 and Medical use at max ? You must have this for pvp, no matter what race you are, otherwise you are wasting potions.

Getting Alchemy to 50 is the easiest of all. Just mix some cheap Scrib Jelly and Spider Egg ( things that cost a few gold on stores, as they drop by mobs) into some poison and there you go.

Cage_Lizardman · January 2018

Calling Argonians op was a joke before morrowind sustain nerfs. The only thing that makes them good now is the potion passive. Even if I play mostly Argonians, I admit it feels wrong for them to be best at anything, so wouldn't mind if they nerfed it.

sharquez · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

[snip] -and the immunity to disease/poison enchant procs which makes Argonian the race with highest survivability as well.

They get like a 5% resistance to poison, Trust me you wont even notice it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

This is a nerf thread. We've had enough nerfs. Stop.

Twohothardware · January 2018

sharquez wrote: »

They get like a 5% resistance to poison, Trust me you wont even notice it.

That's not how it works. It completely suppresses the status effects from being applied. A Disease enchant can proc Major Defile. Argonians and Bosmer are immune to that proc.

Izaki · January 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

and just today I rerolled my redguard to orc, because Troll king orc synergy beats dying with a full stamina bar.
I think redguard is not really an issue at the moment. adrenaline rush was nerfed and %9 extra regen is barely noticeable.

The issue with Redguard isn't really as much PvP as it is PvE because in Trials or anywhere else you're constantly light attacking in a DPS rotation so you have maximum uptime on the Adrenaline passive.

Argonian is the main one imbalanced in PvP because you get essentially a Tri Stat potion for free for using a Potion which if you actually consume a Tri Stat Potion is A LOT of recovery you can get even while holding block and having minimal invested into your Recovery stat. And that's on top of 9% max health, 5% healing, 3% max Magicka, and the immunity to disease/poison enchant procs which makes Argonian the race with highest survivability as well.

Light attacking in 2k18? Heh. Nope.

Unless you're a stamblade that is.

Twohothardware · January 2018

makreth wrote: »

Khajiits need love because they are jealous and purr...............

Agreed. Khajiit's passive Stealthy does absolutely nothing in PvP or end game PvE on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game that lack Cloak. That means Khajiit's only passives are 10% Stam Recovery, 20% Health Recovery, and 8% Crit. Compare that to Redgard that gets 10% Max Stamina, 9% Stam Recovery, and the Adrenaline passive.

10% max Stamina offers nearly the same DPS as the 8% Crit in PvE while being more beneficial in PvP where everyone decent has high Crit resistance. 9% Stam Recovery + Adrenaline also adds up to way more Sustain than Khajiits 10% Stam Recovery and it allows you to recover Stamina even with a low Recovery stat or when Blocking.

Khajiit needs more Recovery or more damage to make it a competitive race on the other 4 classes in the game that are not Nightblade.

grannas211 · January 2018

Please leave the nerf bat away from Argonians.

#Buffsinsteadofnerfs