Very Frustrated with Transmutation Crystals ZOS (PvE vs. PvP)

JJMaxx1980 · January 2018

I tried...

I really did. I've been playing for a long time. I enjoy PvE gameplay. I've never liked PvP in all my years of MMO's. I spent weeks running Vaults of Madness for my Worm Cult Lightning Staff. I spent even more time grinding SPC. That's okay, I enjoyed it most of the time. Then when I heard ZOS was releasing transmutation crystals, I was overjoyed. I could finally change the trait on that item it took me weeks to grind. This was gonna be great.

It isn't great.

It's not even fair.

Folks who PvP are collecting these crystals hand over fist, sitting at the cap with nothing to do with them. Getting 25 or 50 at a clip. Even a 5 min Battleground gets you a gold geode if you win.

But when players such as myself slog through Falkreath Hold with a bunch of randoms for two hours, we get ONE. If we're lucky, we turn in our Undaunted Quest and get... one.

I just don't understand. You need fifty to change one item and it's so hard to get that many if you PvE.

So I gave in. I changed my character and tried following guides to do some PvP to get crystals. The end result was as expected. I hate it. I've never liked it but I needed these crystals so I sold my soul for a bowl of stew.

Please, ZOS, you seem like really cool people. If you're reading this, could you increase the drop rate for us dungeon-delvers? I know you're busy but it's the first time I felt really bad about a new feature.

I know there will be those people who will say, 'Just go into Cyro and follow a group.' Why? Why should I do something I hate to get something I want instead of ZOS catering to both sides of its playerbase. I'm sure I'm not the only one who despises PvP.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who listens. I know nothing will probably happen but you never know.

~ J. J.

Waffennacht · January 2018

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

Vapirko · January 2018

Well thanks to you and others complaining and crying to no end, instead of taking advantage of it, it’s now going to be nerfed to a maximum of one crystal per account per day. Great job. People always have to ruin the good things in this game. We finally have ONE thing that’s easier to acquire via PvP and y’all have to go ahead and *** it up.

VaranisArano · January 2018

The PVP drop rate is changing in Update 17 because the ability to get a geode by opening Rewards of the Worthy on characters that didn't earn them was an exploit.

PTS Patch Notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388819/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-0/p1

Transmutation
Rewards for the Worthy mails now only grant a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per account.
Previously, they would give a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per character.
The chance to get Transmutation Geodes from additional mails is unchanged.

Now, PVP players will be able to earn a guaranteed 4-25 stones per day that they earned Rewards of the Worthy, with a chance to gain extra from more Rewards.

Now, I agree that it would be nice for PVE players to get more geodes from their content, but the current dominance of the PVP method is an unintended consequence of how the mail system handled Rewards of the Worthy which will be changing.

JJMaxx1980 · January 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Well thanks to you and others complaining and crying to no end, instead of taking advantage of it, it’s now going to be nerfed to a maximum of one crystal per account per day. Great job. People always have to ruin the good things in this game. We finally have ONE thing that’s easier to acquire via PvP and y’all have to go ahead and *** it up.

Take advantage of it? I don't enjoy PvP. Transmutation Crystals are items used by both communities and should be just as available for both. The imbalance is staggering. Even with the nerf it's still grossly unbalanced. I'm sorry you happen to enjoy the broken side of the imbalance. Must be nice.

kargen27 · January 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Well thanks to you and others complaining and crying to no end, instead of taking advantage of it, it’s now going to be nerfed to a maximum of one crystal per account per day. Great job. People always have to ruin the good things in this game. We finally have ONE thing that’s easier to acquire via PvP and y’all have to go ahead and *** it up.

This was going to happen anyway. I am surprised they didn't hot fix it the day after release actually. No way they intended the rewards for the worthy to be once per day per character.

Back to the OP. That fifty at a clip happens once a month for reaching a certain tier in PvP. Doing pledges on one character if you skip the DLC pledge gets you sixty in one month. Throw in a trial and the DLC and an active end game PvE'r does about as well as an active PvP'r in a month. With the changes PvE comes out quite a bit ahead.

JJMaxx1980 · January 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Back to the OP. That fifty at a clip happens once a month for reaching a certain tier in PvP.

I was told the 7-Day campaigns give the same thing? Is that not true?

I did a Battleground for the first time today. I had no idea what I was doing and my team won anyways. I received mail and got a gold geode for 5-25 crystals. I had never got a gold one of those before, even for difficult random vet dungeon runs.

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

honestly i think they should increase the amount of crystals you get to AT LEAST 5 per pledge, probably rather 10... the amount im earning now - from my perspective - they can just get ridd of them again to be honest...makes no difference of me, the whole system seems futile

JJMaxx1980 · January 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

honestly i think they should increase the amount of crystals you get to AT LEAST 5 per pledge, probably rather 10... the amount im earning now - from my perspective - they can just get ridd of them again to be honest...makes no difference of me, the whole system seems futile

Precisely. The amount of time it takes to grind the piece of gear with the correct trait is usually less than it takes to get 50 crystals.

SydneyGrey · January 2018

They have to raise the rate at which you can get them in PvE. The O.P. is right: the difference is ridiculous and unfair.
I'm not saying nerf the rate in PvP; I'm just suggesting raising the number you can get in PvE.

kargen27 · January 2018

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Back to the OP. That fifty at a clip happens once a month for reaching a certain tier in PvP.

I was told the 7-Day campaigns give the same thing? Is that not true?

I did a Battleground for the first time today. I had no idea what I was doing and my team won anyways. I received mail and got a gold geode for 5-25 crystals. I had never got a gold one of those before, even for difficult random vet dungeon runs.

I think the seven day campaign is ten but can't swear to that.

I haven't done many battlegrounds since the change but have been in a few where my team won. I don't remember getting a lot of crystals so either you had good luck or I had bad luck. I kind of suspect they have been dinking with the numbers since this started. I know some content that provided them all the sudden the next day didn't and there was never an announcement (that I saw and I looked) about the change.
I was actually expecting it to be a lot worse than it is even if I just did PvE.

Unfadingsilence · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

The PVP drop rate is changing in Update 17 because the ability to get a geode by opening Rewards of the Worthy on characters that didn't earn them was an exploit.

PTS Patch Notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388819/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-0/p1

Transmutation
Rewards for the Worthy mails now only grant a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per account.
Previously, they would give a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per character.
The chance to get Transmutation Geodes from additional mails is unchanged.

Now, PVP players will be able to earn a guaranteed 4-25 stones per day that they earned Rewards of the Worthy, with a chance to gain extra from more Rewards.

Now, I agree that it would be nice for PVE players to get more geodes from their content, but the current dominance of the PVP method is an unintended consequence of how the mail system handled Rewards of the Worthy which will be changing.

What about the end of campaign reward will I still get 100 per toon?

Ackwalan · January 2018

I suppose you don't want to hear about the ten 4-25 crystal boxes I deleted today, just to clear up inventory space.

chaserstorm16909 · January 2018

It's funny how I am primarily a pvper and don't care much at all about the crystals. I hate that all the awesome monster sets are locked behind pve. Minus the golden vendor of course. But good luck waiting for what you want.

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

i think it isn't a smart move to try to "force" pvp players into pve and vice-verca - i understand what they are doing but mostly pve and pvp are just two really different communities with only small overlaps

Morgul667 · January 2018

PVP gets the shaft on most things, so it was nice to see a change for once.

Now it is back to normal with PVP geode drop rate going down...

Contraptions · January 2018

With the coming PVP ROTW crystal fix it might be faster to run normal trials for crystals. Each weekly coffer gives 5 and even with no DLCs it's 15 per character per week. Not too difficult to reach 50 after a few days of running on diff characters.

Calboy · January 2018

And here we go again. Pve care bears ruining it for everyone else once again because they were missing out. Well guess what, now we All miss out.

esotoon · January 2018

S

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Please, ZOS, you seem like really cool people. If you're reading this, could you increase the drop rate for us dungeon-delvers? I know you're busy but it's the first time I felt really bad about a new feature.

I know there will be those people who will say, 'Just go into Cyro and follow a group.' Why? Why should I do something I hate to get something I want instead of ZOS catering to both sides of its playerbase. I'm sure I'm not the only one who despises PvP.

Whilst they are at it, can they give PVPers a choice of 21 different helms each week for free, as well as loads of free dungeon jewellery and sets. Plus throw in a ton of gold. And maybe PVP and PVE players will finally be balanced in rewards at last.

The one time PVPers get something extra and it gets nerfed. LOL

Runefang · January 2018

Rotw was being exploited so a fix was always coming. Unfortunately it seems zos can't track it per character so now its per account. The nerf isn't due to pve'ers whinging so stop being ridiculous.

I imagine its really only slow to farm crystals if you do nothing but normal pledges/random. Do trials and vet non-dlc pledges on a few toons and you're at 50 in a few days.

Transairion · January 2018

People smacking down OP but they have a point, and it's been like this since Transmutation first launched:

PvE Daily (first random dungeon) gives a minimum of 1 Crystal and a maximum of... 1 Crystal.

Additional Geodes (Green = 1 Crystal, Purple should be higher but has only ever given me single Crystal drops too) are pure RNG on the final boss, with a terrible droprate. Even running dungeons on mass I see them less than 1 in 10 runs.

Weekly Trial quest/s give 5 Crystals upon completion of 12 player content

PvP "Daily" (Rewards of the Worthy) gives a MINIMUM of 4 Crystals, and can max out at 20 Crystals.

Due to the way Rewards of the Worthy was changed to come in the mail, it it possible to open those mails on all your different characters to get "first of the day" rewards every time. As much, at minimum you can get 4 Crystals per character you have. Even after you've opened your first reward, subsequent Rewards of the Worthy contain a chance to have more Crystals in them on a pure RNG basis (same as Dungeon final bosses).

In ADDITION to that, merely earning 25,000 AP to reach the first Reward Tier in your Campaign gives you a guaranteed Gold Geode (50 Crystals for 30 Day Camps, 10 Crystals for 7 Day Camps) at the end of the Campaign's duration, whether you or not you faction wins, loses, or you didn't participate anymore. For context, Rewards of the Worthy come every 20,000 AP. It can be earned hours before the Campaign ends and earns you the full reward regardless of how much you contributed over the month/week.

Laid out like this it should be, I hope, very glaringly lopsided in favor of PvP. I haven't understood it since Transmutation hit Live, and since the "exploit" using the mail to open RoTW Bags on other characters has existed this long and never been deemed a problem it's hardly an exploit. Just the result of changing that reward to the mail system.

I've got no problem with PvP being able to earn more as encouragement, but really? Is there a reason that (first) Reward of the Worthy Bag and Random Dungeon doesn't give the same dang Geode? Why does one only give a single Crystal at max, but the other gives 4x that number at minimum with up to 20x if lucky?

Do keep in mind, PvP's rewards are tied to Alliance Points (AP) and AP can be earned without fighting a single enemy player. It's very telling that it seems everyone who Transmutes earns them in PvP, since actually trying to "farm" them in PvE content is so inefficient.

RavenSworn · January 2018

To the OP, I personally feel that this system was NOT implemented as a primary way to get the traits that you want with your gear. Grinding it out on dungeon runs is still the best way to get the traits you want for it. Its just another option for the players.

They have to balance it out in terms of the amount of crystals gained but yes, i do agree with you that the drop rate for the PvE side of the game is abysmal to say the least.

Didgerion · January 2018

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

I tried...

I really did. I've been playing for a long time. I enjoy PvE gameplay. I've never liked PvP in all my years of MMO's. I spent weeks running Vaults of Madness for my Worm Cult Lightning Staff. I spent even more time grinding SPC. That's okay, I enjoyed it most of the time. Then when I heard ZOS was releasing transmutation crystals, I was overjoyed. I could finally change the trait on that item it took me weeks to grind. This was gonna be great.

It isn't great.

It's not even fair.

Folks who PvP are collecting these crystals hand over fist, sitting at the cap with nothing to do with them. Getting 25 or 50 at a clip. Even a 5 min Battleground gets you a gold geode if you win.

But when players such as myself slog through Falkreath Hold with a bunch of randoms for two hours, we get ONE. If we're lucky, we turn in our Undaunted Quest and get... one.

I just don't understand. You need fifty to change one item and it's so hard to get that many if you PvE.

So I gave in. I changed my character and tried following guides to do some PvP to get crystals. The end result was as expected. I hate it. I've never liked it but I needed these crystals so I sold my soul for a bowl of stew.

Please, ZOS, you seem like really cool people. If you're reading this, could you increase the drop rate for us dungeon-delvers? I know you're busy but it's the first time I felt really bad about a new feature.

I know there will be those people who will say, 'Just go into Cyro and follow a group.' Why? Why should I do something I hate to get something I want instead of ZOS catering to both sides of its playerbase. I'm sure I'm not the only one who despises PvP.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who listens. I know nothing will probably happen but you never know.

~ J. J.

Maybe the crystal drop was higher in PVP since PVP-ers gear is more trait sensitive?
For example Impen trait is crucial in PVP - while in PVE you can get along with divines and infused traits(very comparable at min-maxing your build).
From that simple example it is clear that PVP players need to farm impen pieces twice as long as it takes PVE players to farm divines/infused trait pieces.

But as always PVE community does not really care about grind pain that PVP-ers has to go through - as we need to grind most of our gear in PVE areas. Transmute crystals was a nice way to reduce the grind need - but it did not last.

And IDK why ZOS chose to nerf PVP crystal rewards instead of buffing PVE ones. I don't mind if PVE players get 4-25 crystal geodes for an undaunted daily clear.

I personally advocate for a fun game and not a grind game. But looks like ZOS is still not very confident with their game and keep players in the game using old school grind model.

I'd say shame on ZOS with their grind model! - look how long it took them to implement the transmutation system - it really is a easy system in terms of coding - tons of players rage quit because of bad RNG - like what nerves should you have to finally get your VMA 2H weapon .....but powered. #feelsbadzos

Girl_Number8 · January 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They have to raise the rate at which you can get them in PvE. The O.P. is right: the difference is ridiculous and unfair.
I'm not saying nerf the rate in PvP; I'm just suggesting raising the number you can get in PvE.

Yes this^ plz un-nerf and give pve plenty of crystals.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2018

Seriously these threads have got to be the saltiest threads anyone can make. Instead of making the thread about buffing crystal rewards for PvEers. Youve made it about why ZOS needs to nerf PvP rewards. You cant possibly be naive enough to believe that attacking PvP rewards would result in better rewards for PvE.

But what goes around comes around.

Runschei · January 2018

I don't know about you or how you get your information on pvp, but it's not that common to get any more than 4-6 gems pr box you open. I have opened hundreds ever since the function launched and I got 25 twice, other than that it has been 4-6 gems pr character every day. Doing trials will guarantee you 5. I don't get the problem really, but yeah thanks for complaining about it so pvp gets one box pr account daily

andreasv · January 2018

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seriously these threads have got to be the saltiest threads anyone can make. Instead of making the thread about buffing crystal rewards for PvEers. Youve made it about why ZOS needs to nerf PvP rewards. You cant possibly be naive enough to believe that attacking PvP rewards would result in better rewards for PvE.

But what goes around comes around.

Please read the original post again, as it clearly asks for a buff for PvE rewards.

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

...
Please, ZOS, you seem like really cool people. If you're reading this, could you increase the drop rate for us dungeon-delvers? ...

FloppyTouch · January 2018

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

Hexquisite · January 2018

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 10 per pledge or something like that. (changed to 10, as it is pointed out they get 5 for Vet, but I swear I only got 1 out of a purple Geode after doing Earthgore Pledge on Vet and I thought what a rip off!)

FloppyTouch · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days