Do you agree with the changes to block cost?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

This one is simple. Do you want to see these PTS changes make it to live or not?

Marabornwingrion · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Make these changes in Battle Spirit instead.

Nihility42 · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

DHale · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Standing and holding block is now considered over powered... I don’t know what to say... it’s crazy.

Asmael · January 2018

What if I'd like to see flat cost calculated first in the formulae, but the base block cost reduction increased from 20% to 40%?

GreatGildersleeve · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

We can protest all we want but...

OutLaw_Nynx · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

This needs to be ONLY in PVP.

Smmokkee · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Do it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Nihility42 wrote: »

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

Permablocking was NEVER an issue in PvP. Try it. As soon as you find a few non-potatoes, you will melt in a pool of unblockable AOE, (oh look, a counter to block), get feared, petrified, runecaged on cooldown, (oh look, another counter to block). If you manage to have stam after that, you will die with a full bar of stam all while doing zero damage. Where's the harm in that?

But aren't there "unkillable" players in PvP?

Look. Anyone that appears unkillable is stacking mitigation/healing, not block. Perhaps they are blocking too but you can only block so much damage. The rest goes through. Previously there were some bugs, exploits and outright cheats that allowed you to stack mitigation much further than you should have. If you see someone taking ZERO damage and holding block, its a heals/mitigation issue. not a block issue. Nerf that. Don't nerf block.

Solariken · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

I support the change mainly because it results in a nice cost reduction for non-tank builds. Perma-block shouldn't really be a thing either, so I'm ok with the cost increase on full block builds.

Nihility42 · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

Permablocking was NEVER an issue in PvP. Try it. As soon as you find a few non-potatoes, you will melt in a pool of unblockable AOE, (oh look, a counter to block), get feared, petrified, runecaged on cooldown, (oh look, another counter to block). If you manage to have stam after that, you will die with a full bar of stam all while doing zero damage. Where's the harm in that?

But aren't there "unkillable" players in PvP?

Look. Anyone that appears unkillable is stacking mitigation/healing, not block. Perhaps they are blocking too but you can only block so much damage. The rest goes through. Previously there were some bugs, exploits and outright cheats that allowed you to stack mitigation much further than you should have. If you see someone taking ZERO damage and holding block, its a heals/mitigation issue. not a block issue. Nerf that. Don't nerf block.

Pretty much my thoughts. If someone stacks all that mitigation, they're going to be useless for damage. And if they don't, an equally skilled player can kill them. It's not really an isue as I see it. But begging for block nerfs is easier than l2p.

SodanTok · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

They fixed what made no sense (flat block cost being calculated differently than skill cost is) and reduced base cost for everyone.
So yes?

Not liking new cost tanks will have to deal with or the gameplay that may have forced them to perma block in pve is totally different matter for totally different topic. Don't confuse these two things.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Nihility42 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

Permablocking was NEVER an issue in PvP. Try it. As soon as you find a few non-potatoes, you will melt in a pool of unblockable AOE, (oh look, a counter to block), get feared, petrified, runecaged on cooldown, (oh look, another counter to block). If you manage to have stam after that, you will die with a full bar of stam all while doing zero damage. Where's the harm in that?

But aren't there "unkillable" players in PvP?

Look. Anyone that appears unkillable is stacking mitigation/healing, not block. Perhaps they are blocking too but you can only block so much damage. The rest goes through. Previously there were some bugs, exploits and outright cheats that allowed you to stack mitigation much further than you should have. If you see someone taking ZERO damage and holding block, its a heals/mitigation issue. not a block issue. Nerf that. Don't nerf block.

Pretty much my thoughts. If someone stacks all that mitigation, they're going to be useless for damage. And if they don't, an equally skilled player can kill them. It's not really an isue as I see it. But begging for block nerfs is easier than l2p.

So basically we have destroyed the "This change is necessary for PvP" excuse. All we have left is ZOS deciding they want to change the tank PvE meta.

Well ZOS you tried that with ice staff tanking. How did that work out?
Perhaps your players are happy with the way things are.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Smmokkee · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

Permablocking was NEVER an issue in PvP. Try it. As soon as you find a few non-potatoes, you will melt in a pool of unblockable AOE, (oh look, a counter to block), get feared, petrified, runecaged on cooldown, (oh look, another counter to block). If you manage to have stam after that, you will die with a full bar of stam all while doing zero damage. Where's the harm in that?

But aren't there "unkillable" players in PvP?

Look. Anyone that appears unkillable is stacking mitigation/healing, not block. Perhaps they are blocking too but you can only block so much damage. The rest goes through. Previously there were some bugs, exploits and outright cheats that allowed you to stack mitigation much further than you should have. If you see someone taking ZERO damage and holding block, its a heals/mitigation issue. not a block issue. Nerf that. Don't nerf block.

Pretty much my thoughts. If someone stacks all that mitigation, they're going to be useless for damage. And if they don't, an equally skilled player can kill them. It's not really an isue as I see it. But begging for block nerfs is easier than l2p.

So basically we have destroyed the "This change is necessary for PvP" excuse. All we have left is ZOS deciding they want to change the tank PvE meta.

Well ZOS you tried that with ice staff tanking. How did that work out?
Perhaps your players are happy with the way things are.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The poll is fairly even and just because 2 players agree that it isnt a problem for pvp doesnt mean it isnt a problem for pvp. Lol.

To many tank builds inside cyrodiil and bgs as it is. If this change will cut down on that number then great.

Block nerfs is healthy for the game. With the amount of mitigation they can get from other sources block was just overdoing it. Its kind of the same treatment roll dodge builds got and that was worse if you ask me.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Smmokkee wrote: »

The poll is fairly even and just because 2 players agree that it isnt a problem for pvp doesnt mean it isnt a problem for pvp. Lol.

I've explained that the issue lies in mitigation/heals, not permablocking. I'm waiting to hear an actual counterargument that responsively and substantively counters the argument myself and others have put forward but instead all I'm getting is:

So I ask again, explain to me why the ability to hold block down for long periods of time is a bad thing when several good counters exist and permablockers die easily if you have any non-potato DPS on them.

Smmokkee · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

The poll is fairly even and just because 2 players agree that it isnt a problem for pvp doesnt mean it isnt a problem for pvp. Lol.

I've explained that the issue lies in mitigation/heals, not permablocking. I'm waiting to hear an actual counterargument that responsively and substantively counters the argument myself and others have put forward but instead all I'm getting is:

So I ask again, explain to me why the ability to hold block down for long periods of time is a bad thing when several good counters exist and permablockers die easily if you have any non-potato DPS on them.

Lol you didnt explain anything you just said it was a healing/mitigation issue and then go on to list a small unrealistic amount of counters and say "see he is ded now explain to me why thats so op."

Lol refer to the picture you posted.

Ignore my whole post next time as well to make your argument seem stronger its cool.

Rainraven · January 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Is permablocking even a real issue in PVP. It can be a bit annoying, but it's not like permablock tanks are particularly dangerous. They do the most damage by distracting you. So just ignore them and let them waddle around doing no damage.

Look. Anyone that appears unkillable is stacking mitigation/healing, not block. Perhaps they are blocking too but you can only block so much damage. The rest goes through. Previously there were some bugs, exploits and outright cheats that allowed you to stack mitigation much further than you should have. If you see someone taking ZERO damage and holding block, its a heals/mitigation issue. not a block issue. Nerf that. Don't nerf block.

Good point. I have to point out though it looks like a block issue. I mean, literally, when I'm dealing with one of those guys the shield up is the part I see, and it's up a lot.

And while I read on this forum that I should just ignore those guys because they can't do any damage, that's not my experience. (Just being able to wade through enemies and then rez, get bashed, rez, get bashed, rez, ignoring all incoming damage, until he can get a damager up again is enough of a problem.) I read they can't actually hold block for ages, but that's also not what I see. Permanently, no I guess not, but things happen quickly in Cyrodiil. "For a long long time with many things hitting him," is permanently enough.

I have no idea if this change is going to level this out some, I don't think I fully understand what they're planning to do. And I really don't think PVE tanks need a nerf. But when 2/3 players - at least - in Cyrodiil are in heavy armor and SnB something is out of whack, so I hope. I really think they should look at the sets they crank out before doing global nerfs, but that's never where they go first. And can we talk about CP mitigation AND more damage AND more healing AND more sustain all at once?
No, I bet we can't.

I don't play a tank in PVE and I don't heavy armor SnB in PVP, but I'm nervous about this change. I want them to do something, because this milieu sucks, but I'm not so sure this is the thing.

Kilandros · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Does it help non-perma block builds? Yes.

Does it hurt perma block builds? Yes.

Looks good to me.

Kiara · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

zyk · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

This is from another thread. I'm not sure everyone is aware of how strong and low cost blocking can be:
Blocking with One Hand and Shield provides the following benefits:
- 70% damage reduction; defensive posture adds 8% reduction, the DK Iron Skin Passive adds 10% reduction)
- prevents secondary negative effects (this is huge)
- an additional 15% reduction from range attacks

This doesn't add up to 88%+ mitigation because of how damage is calculated, but it's not difficult to achieve 80%+ total mitigation. To see the practical impact, please see this thread for damage calcs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/

Currently, it is easy to lower the cost of block to a trivial amount (88; 48 may also still be possible, I am unsure) making blocking incredibly efficient. Choosing 3x block cost reduction is a no-brainer and allows block builds to focus damage stats elsewhere.

A block build can mitigate most damage and bypass most secondary negative effects while continuing the pressure their opponents offensively for absurdly low costs that are easy to recover from a variety of methods including class, racial and armor passives. Against one or two targets, permablocking is np at all.

The super tank builds aren't the biggest practical issue, but they can clearly pose a problem anywhere in Cyrodiil there is an objective flag or in Battlegrounds. However, even outside of these builds, the benefits of block builds are far too great for the cost when using cost reduction glyphs.

DKsUnite · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

I don't think the combat team realises how easy it is to go back to perma blocking in the upcoming patch.

I run one of those mDK specs that people complained about, 3x block cost reduction enchants but I'm able to kill people. Due to the upcoming patch, with slight modifications to my build I'm able to achieve the same amount of blocks until exhaustion (max stam/block cost) as lIve.

The blocking change really only nerfs pve tanks and those tanks in cyrodiil that can tank 10 people for an hour however none of these specs deserve nerfs because pve is fine and pvp tanks like that can just be ignored and they can't do anything to you.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Seriously, we are defending permablocking now?
What next? will you guys ask a buff for cloak spam too?

Rainraven · January 2018

>.>

<.<

#buffcloakspam

Minno · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

The way I see the change, the cost increase becomes a soft caps on block cost reduction.

The ideal goal would be to create a soft cap for much of the mechanics, and then adjust DMG/healing as needed.

ak_pvp · January 2018

For PvE, no. For PvP, sure.

In 1v1s permablock was hardly a problem. I cc'd and drained them of stam whilst dotting them up. Its only in BGs/agaist multiple that it got tedious. Tanky Heal/purge spammers are worse.

Lucky28 · January 2018

I don't think the game needs more tanks.

Put 5-10% block cost reduction into light and medium armor passives would be the better way to go. imo

IxSTALKERxI · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

I think this is a good change to the formula balance wise.

If this is too much a nerf, a different adjustment can be made on top of this.

The idea is to nerf those that min max blocking without nerfing the people who don't spec into block at all, and this change does that. Players could get block cost reduced to the point where it was almost free while other people lost 2k stam for tapping the block key to skillfully block 1 skill. It was kind of out of whack.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Changes to block make the game worse.

But it wont be changed. The only people ZOS lisens to are PVPers.

ccfeeling · January 2018

I support the changes to block cost

Just do it .
PVP is much more important .

TheNightflame · January 2018

Healers can mitigate it slightly by adding healing springs under the tank as a part of their normal rotation with the master resto. It won't fully nullify the changes, but it will mitigate them (assuming springs would not be used within the tank's area normally during those specific boss fight phases)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

Leave block the way it is.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The only people ZOS lisens to are PVPers.

lol

Man do I wish that was true. I think the only ones they listen to are potatoes in mixed gear with no impen that go on the forums and cry because they fought a maxed out pvp toon and got rekt.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Do you agree with the changes to block cost?

Do you agree with the changes to block cost? 153 votes