for me the cost will go to 365 from 96 I think so its not the end of the world but will have to get used to it. Maybe a little excessive

Noob tank here. Gravitated towards tanking because I couldn't be bothered with DPSer rotations and can't seem to remember light weaving. Tried swopping Shield Play glyphs for Potion speed. Even with 28K stam, I still struggle against World Bosses that have adds mechanisms. I can only imagine Trials will be even harder.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

The change to block cost won't really affect PvE tanks as you don't permablock on them for the most part. The base cost of blocking actually got reduced which helps PvE tanks once they get used to weaving a light attack or 2 in and not 100% block casting.

Besides, resource management is a skill to be learned and Tanks can be assisted in it by shards if really necessary.

I dont think you ever did a vTrial as a tank.

Nade_nXs wrote: »

In Cyrodill heals and shields are reduced by a certain percentage why can't they make the same thing for block cost, why PvE players are getting punished because people in PvP are running Tank with High block reduction.

P.S Its gonna be really hard for newer tank to control their Stamina.

This change is necessary. Glad it's finally getting reduced to remove permablock.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

The change to block cost won't really affect PvE tanks as you don't permablock on them for the most part. The base cost of blocking actually got reduced which helps PvE tanks once they get used to weaving a light attack or 2 in and not 100% block casting.

Besides, resource management is a skill to be learned and Tanks can be assisted in it by shards if really necessary.

I’m not quite sure what you mean as PvE content. Easier dungeons have mechanics that allow for tactical blocking most of the time. Vet trials and some DLC dungeons (like Bloodrootforge) put you in a permablock situation for most of the time because the damage is too great to be simply outhealed by your healer. Usually situations where an ill-timed Heavy attack or bar swap could lead to a one shot considering the lag with block and boss “animation cancels” that exist, as well.

Also, if the change goes live, you’ll only be able to eat up shards every 30 seconds up from 20 seconds, which also hurts overall sustain. While experienced tanks will be able to survive and adapt, making tanking more stressful than it currently is on live (which I find is still an acceptable ratio of challenge and fun) could potentially drive more players away from the role, which wouldn’t help PvE and would most likely affect all roles in regards to optimisation.

I don’t mind if changes occur, but they have to be viewed holistically as well. Encouraging Tactical Blocking (which experienced tanks already utilise anyway in content that allows them to) without changing some content mechanics is a bad idea.

Personally, I enjoy support tanking and perhaps I am biased, as the change may sweep tanks into more selfish gear. While I was new on tanking, I had self-sustaining sets that worked as training wheels. It was nice to have something to improve towards and lose the training wheels, as I personally found myself more useful to the group by debuffing and indirectly increasing DPS, as opposed to a meatshield tank. Despite morrowind nerfs to block, I still found it fun to tank , debuff, and manage resources.. though to be honest (as I am no tanking goddess), in more difficult content It wasn’t THAT easy but mistakes were still relatively cheap (resources wise) to correct. Just because current tanks can tank and debuff at the same time does not mean tanking is super easy, because the tanks that do it very well are godly experienced and are far and few between as is.

A nearly 400% increase in block cost won’t go unnoticed, especially the higher you go up the ladder of content difficulty. Newer tanks will be scrambling for resources the first few weeks as they adapt, I just hope we have enough masochistic members of our community to still take on the role.

I’m afraid that if the block formula goes to live as it is in PTS without further consideration, it might suck all the fun from tanking and make it an even rarer role in PvE, further dwindling the endgame community and newer trial progression guilds might see the insides of a vet trial even less.

Twohothardware wrote: »

Nox_Noir wrote: »

To everyone complaining about permablock I urge you to try and tank Bloodroot forge last boss hard mode. While all 3 bosses are there, theres not 1 second where it's safe to heavy attack.
As long as ZOS keep designing content like this, we NEED permablock.

I'm not even arguing that permablock is a stupid dull mechanic, yes it is of course - but some of the harder content would need to be adjusted to account for it's removal as well:
- There's just too many ridiculously hard hitting attacks that can one shot a TANK
- on some bosses like Earthgore amalgam and his sons these super heavy attacks also occur WAY too frequently
- the animations and telegraphs for these one shot mechanics are often too difficult to read, or not perfectly in sync with 'expected' timing (saint olms sometimes slaps you to death before his claw even touches the player and stuff like that)

Edit: Oh and P.S. may god have mercy on your soul if you try to tank with an Ice staff where the heavy attacks are almost 2 times slower.

Then you adjust the content but permablocking shouldn't be a thing in PvE or PvP. It takes the skill out to knowing when to block and when to just take damage, roll dodge, ect.

Do you honestly think they would look at every encounter across six trials and dozens of veteran dungeons to make adjustments making it easier for tanks?

rustic_potato wrote: »

It is a combination of skill and exploiting some bugs that they are able to get the mitigation needed for their tankiness.

Exploiting some bugs in order to gain mitigation values to survive a whole raid of players hitting at someone should be addressed as well. Just a couple of month ago some players got perma-banned for using exploits in vAS. I'm not calling for a ban-hammer, though exploiting remains exploiting and should be treated equally, regardless if it affects PvE or PvP players.

Tasear wrote: »

Reduce healing even more along with block cost in pvp. It would lessen player outrage.

Then again tanks using dps sets...like alkoash.

@Tasear Why is Alkosh considered a DPS set and not a debuff set, tanks receive the most synergies. I don't understand why you would call it a DPS set not to mention even the weapons drop with a crusher enchantment on them. Alkosh's main idea behind it is to debuff an enemy and not to use it for the damage side.

Bowser wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Reduce healing even more along with block cost in pvp. It would lessen player outrage.

Then again tanks using dps sets...like alkoash.

@Tasear Why is Alkosh considered a DPS set and not a debuff set, tanks receive the most synergies. I don't understand why you would call it a DPS set not to mention even the weapons drop with a crusher enchantment on them. Alkosh's main idea behind it is to debuff an enemy and not to use it for the damage side.

So stamina DPS aren't running some combination of Night Mother's Gaze, Sunderflame, and Morag Tong? I thought they're not DPS sets because they debuff. I suppose a DPS couldn't benefit from Minor Slayer either, right?

I agree with this notion.

Tanks have no business being in Alkosh. Stupid design flaw, but to be honest this change helps Alky tanks more than it hurts lol.

Bowser wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Nox_Noir wrote: »

To everyone complaining about permablock I urge you to try and tank Bloodroot forge last boss hard mode. While all 3 bosses are there, theres not 1 second where it's safe to heavy attack.
As long as ZOS keep designing content like this, we NEED permablock.

I'm not even arguing that permablock is a stupid dull mechanic, yes it is of course - but some of the harder content would need to be adjusted to account for it's removal as well:
- There's just too many ridiculously hard hitting attacks that can one shot a TANK
- on some bosses like Earthgore amalgam and his sons these super heavy attacks also occur WAY too frequently
- the animations and telegraphs for these one shot mechanics are often too difficult to read, or not perfectly in sync with 'expected' timing (saint olms sometimes slaps you to death before his claw even touches the player and stuff like that)

Edit: Oh and P.S. may god have mercy on your soul if you try to tank with an Ice staff where the heavy attacks are almost 2 times slower.

Then you adjust the content but permablocking shouldn't be a thing in PvE or PvP. It takes the skill out to knowing when to block and when to just take damage, roll dodge, ect.

Do you honestly think they would look at every encounter across six trials and dozens of veteran dungeons to make adjustments making it easier for tanks?

A good dev team would.

Nox_Noir wrote: »

To everyone complaining about permablock I urge you to try and tank Bloodroot forge last boss hard mode. While all 3 bosses are there, theres not 1 second where it's safe to heavy attack.
As long as ZOS keep designing content like this, we NEED permablock.

I'm not even arguing that permablock is a stupid dull mechanic, yes it is of course - but some of the harder content would need to be adjusted to account for it's removal as well:
- There's just too many ridiculously hard hitting attacks that can one shot a TANK
- on some bosses like Earthgore amalgam and his sons these super heavy attacks also occur WAY too frequently
- the animations and telegraphs for these one shot mechanics are often too difficult to read, or not perfectly in sync with 'expected' timing (saint olms sometimes slaps you to death before his claw even touches the player and stuff like that)

Edit: Oh and P.S. may god have mercy on your soul if you try to tank with an Ice staff where the heavy attacks are almost 2 times slower.

This. Right here. ZoS, make up your bloody mind!

You're making content where if we miss a block the group wipes, and at the same time removing our ability to block. It's insane.
Pick one please!

Can someone please explain what the goal for end game PvE tanking is? If we're meant to use heavy attacks for resource return, please stop making content with no windows to exploit for heavy attacks!

In a week or two after the Update goes to the Live server we will once again see "Nerf Permablock Tanks!!" in the Forum. Count on it.

If PVE Tanks can adapt to the nerfs don't you think PVP Tanks will as well? Of course they will. Let's break out the Cheese because it won't be long till we see the "Nerf Tank" threads from PVP players all over again after the update. Soon the Nerfers will have this game just where they want it: Balanced and void of players.