We want choice for battlegrounds: CP or non-CP!

Detector · January 2018

We want use progression in ESO! Or old players it's trash for ZOS?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

VaranisArano · January 2018

I'd prefer a choice to use either No CP or CP in Battlegrounds, similar to how we can choose between a CP and No CP campaign in Cyrodiil. Just like there are some players who only play No CP PVP, there are some players who only play CP PVP.

However...
ZOS changed to No CP to see if population problems with Battlegrounds improved, saying they'd switch back to No CP depending on the results. Since they are switching back, that suggests that ZOS' data shows that players preferred No CP or at least that No CP had a healthier population.ZOS' data is the in-game data, not merely the forum's opinions, of course.

Its also much harder to balance both CP and No CP battlegrounds at the same time, so I can see where ZOS would prefer to simplify the balancing act by removing an option that their data shows less players use. They've done that with campaigns, though they've never quite removed a gameplay mode entirely (outside of a week test of No CP for all campaigns).

Cinbri · January 2018

It is not "use progression ". It called "being carried".
..

Detector · January 2018

Im pvp-player (4 years in ESO). Imperial City and Cyrodiil for me - now it's boring. But CP battlegrounds it's cool. Why I can't use full power of my character? All for noobs? No choice for veterans? Then I leave this casual game...

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

We just need to bite the bullet and remove CP from ALL pvp activities. It is causing power creep and getting everyones favorite class abilities, item sets, and game mechanics nerfed. It is allowing people to run unbalanced builds, then make up for the weaknesses in their builds with CP and have NO tradeoffs. That in turn is causing people to call for nerfs for gear and armor types. Its not the gear thats OP, its the fact that you can make a build with no sustain, no impen, then patch it with CP.

Time to pull off the bandaid.

But removing CP is not enough. When CP was implemented, about 5k Health, Magicka, and Stamina was stolen from our characters and locked behind the champion system.

Adding about 5k stamina and magicka to battle spirit should help soften the blow as people's stats will look about the same after that.

Rex-Umbra · January 2018

If they removed cp without adding more ap i wouldn't bother as i prefer cp but not fanatic about it.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We just need to bite the bullet and remove CP from ALL pvp activities. It is causing power creep and getting everyones favorite class abilities, item sets, and game mechanics nerfed. It is allowing people to run unbalanced builds, then make up for the weaknesses in their builds with CP and have NO tradeoffs. That in turn is causing people to call for nerfs for gear and armor types. Its not the gear thats OP, its the fact that you can make a build with no sustain, no impen, then patch it with CP.

Time to pull off the bandaid.

But removing CP is not enough. When CP was implemented, about 5k Health, Magicka, and Stamina was stolen from our characters and locked behind the champion system.

Adding about 5k stamina and magicka to battle spirit should help soften the blow as people's stats will look about the same after that.

When you talk like this, all I can hear is my D&D friends complaining about "Back in my day, we played 3.5 and that was all about trade-offs when you build a character and this new-fangled 5th edition is all about getting whatever bonuses you want."

I'm exaggerating a little bit but not much.

I prefer to play with CP in PVP for the added regen that means I can play and use the same skills in PVP in the same way I use them in overland questing/dungeons. I can heal the same way with the same resource drain in Cryodiil as I would in a PVE dungeon.

Maybe that's just what I'm used to and No CP is a haven of balance I'd convert to if only I gave it a shot - but I wasn't that impressed during the No CP week in Cyrodiil or in No CP battlegrounds.

Beardimus · January 2018

CP doesn't suit BattleGrounds at all. And I think splitting the queue would damage pop.

The progression argument is so wet, you still have your CP ticking away, and can go use it in PvE, or Vivec. Basically using that argument too are saying you want to smash low CP players and do so because of your CP. It's a odd agruement

Lexxypwns · January 2018

I strongly prefer no-CP. however the lack of choice sucks imo

Thogard · January 2018

Actually, I took a poll on this a few weeks ago.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/385845/if-you-could-split-the-queues-only-one-way-how-would-you-do-it

It seems that the majority of players would prefer to split the BGs between PUGs and premades, rather than CP and No CP.

arkansas_ESO · January 2018

ZOS needs to pick CP or no CP and implement it in all PVP. Going back and forth from a CP-enabled Cyrodiil (because Sotha Sil is dead) to no CP BGs is annoying, because I have to completely change my gear, attributes, and morphs every time I swap between the two.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

They just need to add private matches with custom settings. This would allow for 4v4 guild matches with (optional) CP for ladders/tournaments. Yes, some of the objectives would need to be changed slightly but that is very minor overall.

4v4v4 isn't competitive anyway so having it be no-CP is not an issue unless you need the crutch (extra regen, damage, more resistance, etc.). I agree that having a choice would be ideal but I honestly don't think there are enough active players to support both options. Cyrodiil is not a valid comparison since it exist even when no one is playing making population less of a problem.

VaranisArano · January 2018

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

ZOS needs to pick CP or no CP and implement it in all PVP. Going back and forth from a CP-enabled Cyrodiil (because Sotha Sil is dead) to no CP BGs is annoying, because I have to completely change my gear, attributes, and morphs every time I swap between the two.

Since I prefer CP-enabled PVP, this is one reason I never got that much into Battlegrounds. I'd either have to swap builds completely on my current CP PVP character or I'd basically have to make a new character to build specifically for No CP Battlegrounds and nothing about Battlegrounds got me excited enough to want to put the effort in to do that.

Zer0oo · January 2018

Now we have proc no cp bg which was already so much fun last time.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Maybe that's just what I'm used to and No CP is a haven of balance I'd convert to if only I gave it a shot - but I wasn't that impressed during the No CP week in Cyrodiil or in No CP battlegrounds.

That's because the No CP week was an extremely poor test. Since the inception of CP, ZOS has been sucking regen, sustain, and power from class skills, sets, etc. Dragon roar has been nerfed over and over. Racial sustain like redguard has been nerfed over and over. Medium armor and light armor got their sustain nerfed. Things like dodge roll, block cost all got increased because you could get so much of those things from the champion system, that the controls had to go somewhere.

So if ZOS spent the last two years balancing the entire game around the champion system, and suddenly they remove CP, of course your character is going to feel sluggish. All of his power from the careful class, gear and race choices you made mean less and less now.

The No-CP week was to test the effect of CP on lag, not balance. And since they incentived that week with doubel AP, and tons more people played, they even managed to fuzz up that variable since we all know the server grinds to a stop when the population gets high.

No one had sustain issues back before CP was implemented in the game. The game was about resource management, not stack mitigation and bust. But I can see that newer players are not going to know how it was and just see my arguments as nostalgic. Its true that the balance changes have led to a faster paces, more "Call of Duty 360 no scope" type of playstyle and that's what the kids want these days.

Detector · January 2018

The advantage of CP depends on the knowledge of the mechanics of the game. This makes pvp more difficult and interesting.

VaranisArano · January 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Maybe that's just what I'm used to and No CP is a haven of balance I'd convert to if only I gave it a shot - but I wasn't that impressed during the No CP week in Cyrodiil or in No CP battlegrounds.

That's because the No CP week was an extremely poor test. Since the inception of CP, ZOS has been sucking regen, sustain, and power from class skills, sets, etc. Dragon roar has been nerfed over and over. Racial sustain like redguard has been nerfed over and over. Medium armor and light armor got their sustain nerfed. Things like dodge roll, block cost all got increased because you could get so much of those things from the champion system, that the controls had to go somewhere.

So if ZOS spent the last two years balancing the entire game around the champion system, and suddenly they remove CP, of course your character is going to feel sluggish. All of his power from the careful class, gear and race choices you made mean less and less now.

The No-CP week was to test the effect of CP on lag, not balance. And since they incentived that week with doubel AP, and tons more people played, they even managed to fuzz up that variable since we all know the server grinds to a stop when the population gets high.

No one had sustain issues back before CP was implemented in the game. The game was about resource management, not stack mitigation and bust. But I can see that newer players are not going to know how it was and just see my arguments as nostalgic. Its true that the balance changes have led to a faster paces, more "Call of Duty 360 no scope" type of playstyle and that's what the kids want these days.

It actually wasn't that horrible. I mean, if I were going to play No CP because ZOS decided it was the way things were going to be, I'd adjust the build. Sustain was the biggest issue I had, not survivability, and that's easily solved with enchantments, gear, and less spamming of heals.

On the other hand, there was nothing about No CP Battlegrounds that made me want to stick around long enough to make those changes and there was nothing that different about the No CP test that made me change my mind about preferring CP PVP.

In the end, I could adjust if I had to, but there's nothing about No CP PVP that makes me want to. As long as CP PVP is an option, that's where I'll be.

Ryuuki · January 2018

Personally I prefer if they either went for full CP in PvP in all modes or no CP in PvP for all modes, and balance PvP accordingly.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

To be fair ESO really needs a loadout system for items, skills/morphs, CP, etc. At this point having to spend gold to respec each time is an unnecessary sink. Add-ons do some of this but it would be so much nicer (especially for console players) if this was handled by a wardrobe in each house (since they are giving them to each player via level-up rewards).

This would allow ZOS to do no-CP loadouts, traditional CP loadouts, and even maxed/capped CP loadouts (where all characters are given a specific amount of CP). That way ZOS could even split the difference and do things like CP BG with a cap of 360 (for example) or add ranked play with different requirements each season/month (to keep things fresh).

Once the respec costs are removed the loadout options can be fully realized, you just force players to go to a wardrobe to make these changes and you can place the respec cost sink into unlocking additional loadouts per character.

SirDopey · January 2018

Pretty sure this decision is more about a population thing than anything. In non peak time the queue time is way too long. Having a CP and a non-CP option will only further increase these queue times as possible players will be split between the queues.

I personally support the change. BG's doesn't have the population to counter max cp players coming in and destroying players that are far from cap. Even playing field for all.

If people really want to see both, then get active in your guilds and start promoting BG's so that the population increases to support both.

Strider__Roshin · January 2018

Until I have the option to choose team deathmatch, I could care less either way.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2018

Daus wrote: »

Until I have the option to choose team deathmatch, I could care less either way.

It would be nice if they did community events like deathmatch-only play lists for a weekend, or even just for a single day each week. There is so much potential for customized settings and some of them could be intentionally designed to be silly/fun (and could even coincide with major events like the Jester's Festival).

Imagine if every weekend there was a special playlist with new rules that ran only on Sat & Sun. Then on Tues, Weds, & Thurs there would be a TD/CtF/Dom-only play list added. ESO: Legends already does special events like this and that is just a F2P card game so it would be nice to see something that requires purchasing a Chapter get special gameplay rules and more options.

Morgul667 · January 2018

im really happy with this change

Once you get used to no CP the pace is much more suitable for BG fights

JWillCHS · January 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

im really happy with this change

Once you get used to no CP the pace is much more suitable for BG fights

I'd be all for CP BGs if the pace of the matches weren't horrendous.

Red Team = 300 points
Green Team = 150 points
Purple Team = 50 points

Time: 14:20/15:00

I'm just trying to figure out why Red Team is %^&* around and hasn't won yet? This is no exaggeration. I play a lot of battlegrounds and in no-CP BGs rarely did I run into matches that almost reached the time limit. When they did each team had a chance to win, and it was anyone's game.

But you get matches like the above all the time. Red team has the skill too to blow the other two out the water, but the TTK is just unusually long.

Teridaxus · January 2018

While i do think cp are a garbage idea since day 1 op is right.
They should give us both.

More options tends to be always a good thing.

Of course battlegrounds got many other problems still.

Taysa · January 2018

Detector wrote: »

The advantage of CP depends on the knowledge of the mechanics of the game. This makes pvp more difficult and interesting.

Yea, everyone running a tanky cheese build is definitely difficult and interesting.

/sarcasm

Aliyavana · January 2018

Detector wrote: »

The advantage of CP depends on the knowledge of the mechanics of the game. This makes pvp more difficult and interesting.

Taysa wrote: »

Detector wrote: »

The advantage of CP depends on the knowledge of the mechanics of the game. This makes pvp more difficult and interesting.

Yea, everyone running a tanky cheese build is definitely difficult and interesting.

/sarcasm

Lucky28 · January 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

It is not "use progression ". It called "being carried".
..

if everyone has CP you're not really being carried. putting that aside, it's more people don't want to change their entire builds to jump back and forth between CP and no-CP it's to much of a pain in the ass. it's more convenient to just stick to one or the other.

Which is why so long as they don't implement both CP and No-CP options, BG's are never gonna do as good as they could.

gabormezo · January 2018

+100 for CP option.

Smmokkee · January 2018

Detector wrote: »

We want use progression in ESO! Or old players it's trash for ZOS?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Agreed. How hard is it to actually flesh out this BG system? Give us choices in gamemodes and actual brackets to promote good ganeplay.

Why as a CP 690 am I seeing CP 120s in the same battleground? I can hit the guy with a light attack/poison injection and watch him succumb to the dot right after.

How hard is it to have brackets that are seprated by every 100 or 200 champion points?

No CP BG

CP 100-200 BG

CP 200-300 BG

And so on..

Thats real pvp progression and that would give us some form of competition in this game. It sucks to join a BG be matched agaisnt a bunch of CP 690s and have a bunch of 200s on my team. Its a loss before the fight even begins 9 times out of ten.

Bringing everything back to no cp is a band-aid attempt at fixing BGs. Problem is the band-aid is all wet and used up.

Alcast · January 2018

Not possible, there is already only like 30 ppl in BG queue. You want to split those 30 ppl into no cp and cp you will have nobody to play with