We want choice for battlegrounds: CP or non-CP!

Olupajmibanan

Small scale PvP is really sensitive to both, balance and population.

CPs are garbage since day 1 and removing them helps balance a lot. Just remember the testing day when non-CP Cyrodiil was the only available option and most people were actually surprised how much better the combat is in comparison with CP ones.

By splitting BG queue to CP and non-CP you basically split population which would hurt BGs as well.

It is good as it is, in terms of non-CP only queue.

shadelon

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Cinbri

Lucky28 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

It is not "use progression ". It called "being carried".
..

if everyone has CP you're not really being carried. putting that aside, it's more people don't want to change their entire builds to jump back and forth between CP and no-CP it's to much of a pain in the ass. it's more convenient to just stick to one or the other.

Which is why so long as they don't implement both CP and No-CP options, BG's are never gonna do as good as they could.

There is a lot of new players who don't even has 200cp. And when some of those new players with 100cp asking me for advice how to improve in bgs coz everyone one-shoting him, only answer I can get - don't play bg. Gladly now can say - play cyro till next update.

Hankrabbit

If some Players can not gain an advantage through their own skill, they have to do it through grinded Cp. Thats just horrible and a L2P issue.

Luckily we have No-CP back.

maboleth

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

ZOS needs to pick CP or no CP and implement it in all PVP. Going back and forth from a CP-enabled Cyrodiil (because Sotha Sil is dead) to no CP BGs is annoying, because I have to completely change my gear, attributes, and morphs every time I swap between the two.

Certainly not. Not on PC EU, far from it. It's pop-locked with two digits queue lines in prime time and even when having one bar population in 4am, there are some very interesting fights going on - there's ALWAYS people there.

And is 1000x more enjoyable than Vivec, because all those "I'm the god-mode of CP" elitists go there, so Sotha Sil have much more pleasant, niche and healthier people overall.

If BGs had the massive population I'd prefer CP and NON-CP options, but since it does not, non-CP is so much fairer, faster playing and avoids those toxic god-mode players, keeps them in check. So I applaud ZOS for this change!

Turelus

Whilst I am happy BG are no CP again, I think a choice would be better.

They either need to poop or get off the toilet with CP in PVP.

VaranisArano

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

Defilted

I do not play BG's enough to know, but in Cyro the non-CP campaign is always the least populated campaign. It would be interesting to see if one BG was more used than the other if there was a choice. If it is anything like Cyro I would not be surprised to see non-CP as the least used option.

pieratsos

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

The issue with BGs is that they are not built for CP. Its not like cyro. BGs were designed for no CP fast paced where people can actually die instead of tanks just going at each other.

Emma_Overload

Beardimus wrote: »

CP doesn't suit BattleGrounds at all. And I think splitting the queue would damage pop.

The progression argument is so wet, you still have your CP ticking away, and can go use it in PvE, or Vivec. Basically using that argument too are saying you want to smash low CP players and do so because of your CP. It's a odd agruement

That's a terrible argument, because you are basically walling off an important part of the game from CP players. i understand why some players want No-CP Battlegrounds, and that's fine, but the rest of us who enjoy our progression should ALSO have a CP option so we can enjoy Battlegrounds, too.

Kiara

Giving two separate BG queues CP and nCP is impossible thing to do (unless you want to kill BG), because there is not enough players to separate it. Zos screwed it at the release of Morrowind- they could implemented it as a base game thing, not Morrowind exclusive, it would make BGs way more populated. And now they are struggling, because they screwed at the beginning. Making two queues would probably fix everything, but they wont include BG to base game now, it is too late for that because there are some people who bought Morrowind only for BG.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Well, as I will only play with the CP, I guess that I will not play battlegrounds. There is a reason why the only campaign in Cyrodil that has a queue is the CP one.

Bevik

Plus for CP and noCP they might have to use different servers.

VaranisArano

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

The issue with BGs is that they are not built for CP. Its not like cyro. BGs were designed for no CP fast paced where people can actually die instead of tanks just going at each other.

I agree. It certainly seems like the majority of the population prefers No CP in Battlegrounds.

But I take a scientist's approach to this. Let players have a choice and if CP Battlegrounds dies a quick death with no sustainable population, whelp, then you've got an empirical answer that's obvious to everyone.

pieratsos

VaranisArano wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

The issue with BGs is that they are not built for CP. Its not like cyro. BGs were designed for no CP fast paced where people can actually die instead of tanks just going at each other.

I agree. It certainly seems like the majority of the population prefers No CP in Battlegrounds.

But I take a scientist's approach to this. Let players have a choice and if CP Battlegrounds dies a quick death with no sustainable population, whelp, then you've got an empirical answer that's obvious to everyone.

The only reason why we are in this mess is because of their stupid idea to change BGs and make it with CP in the first place. People were telling them make the rewards better and do some tweaks to motivate people to actually play in BGs. Even the most simple reward which is AP. Its common sense that if BG AP could rival cyro AP then more people would do BGs.

Instead of that they chose to put CP in them and [snip] all over the gameplay which was actually good for the most part, just to shove BGs down on people's throats and milk more money out of Morrowind. That obviously failed and they go for the rewards route and here we are now with no one being happy. They have no clue what they are doing.

[Edited to remove profanity]

HowlKimchi

With the 400% increase in minimum AP gained per BG match, I feel that the popularity of BGs will increase dramatically. This chagne was a step in the right direction, so a choice between CP and no CP might not be too for in the future.

Now they just have to add BGs to the base game. Maybe increase the AP gained by Morrowind owners to stop the qq.

Hiero_Glyph

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Yeah, different groups of people should not be allowed to have different opinions. How ridiculous indeed![/sarcasm]

Personally, I would much rather have no-CP for the entirety of BG if that also means they can add special/custom playlists without having to worry about splitting the population too much. Doing this would at least make having a no-CP BG beneficial as it provides something that would not have been possible due to the lower BG population if CP were enabled.

Joy_Division

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We just need to bite the bullet and remove CP from ALL pvp activities. It is causing power creep and getting everyones favorite class abilities, item sets, and game mechanics nerfed. It is allowing people to run unbalanced builds, then make up for the weaknesses in their builds with CP and have NO tradeoffs. That in turn is causing people to call for nerfs for gear and armor types. Its not the gear thats OP, its the fact that you can make a build with no sustain, no impen, then patch it with CP.

Time to pull off the bandaid.

But removing CP is not enough. When CP was implemented, about 5k Health, Magicka, and Stamina was stolen from our characters and locked behind the champion system.

Adding about 5k stamina and magicka to battle spirit should help soften the blow as people's stats will look about the same after that.

When you talk like this, all I can hear is my D&D friends complaining about "Back in my day, we played 3.5 and that was all about trade-offs when you build a character and this new-fangled 5th edition is all about getting whatever bonuses you want."

I'm exaggerating a little bit but not much.

I prefer to play with CP in PVP for the added regen that means I can play and use the same skills in PVP in the same way I use them in overland questing/dungeons. I can heal the same way with the same resource drain in Cryodiil as I would in a PVE dungeon.

Maybe that's just what I'm used to and No CP is a haven of balance I'd convert to if only I gave it a shot - but I wasn't that impressed during the No CP week in Cyrodiil or in No CP battlegrounds.

Yes and No.

3.5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th and 5th.

What CP did was steal all that regen, power, crit, et al, "the same way I use them in overland questing/dungeons" and locked it all behind a progression system you need to grind to get back.

So, yes, no CP isn't very good because it's just a flat out nerf from what the game was before the Champion System. But that does not mean we need the CP system. We can just get rid of it and return the power that was stolen.

Rohaus

CP is terrible. Eventually ZOS will need to make some serious adjustments to the CP system... the power creep is real!

There are pros and cons to both CP and NO CP... I like that CP gives me the ability to run some non-meta builds... but honestly, in the end, I still end up back using sets that are superior.

It is just amazing at how much quicker people die without CP... the margin of error is quite evident... whereas with CP, you can make tons of mistakes and still recover.

Sarjako

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

The issue with BGs is that they are not built for CP. Its not like cyro. BGs were designed for no CP fast paced where people can actually die instead of tanks just going at each other.

The same can be said about the No-CP environment. It was just 100% dependent on your gearset vs. a combination of your gearset and build choice in RE to CP. There were still tanks running around before doing much the same as they are now. With No-CP you're telling I basically need to go make/grind a new gearset just for Battlegrounds. Well I'll quit. It might be easy with all your add-ons on PC to switch gearsets but it's a PITA to do all the crap on a console without those add-ons. Ive spent countless hours just navigating the UI changing things about my character y'know? Just give me the choice. IDC if your Non-CP queue suffers. If you want to play No-CP, you'll have to wait a bit longer because well not as many people want to play with you. I can guarantee the CP queue will be much healthier because they're not forced to build switch going between Cyro and Battlegrounds.

Hiero_Glyph

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

CP doesn't suit BattleGrounds at all. And I think splitting the queue would damage pop.

The progression argument is so wet, you still have your CP ticking away, and can go use it in PvE, or Vivec. Basically using that argument too are saying you want to smash low CP players and do so because of your CP. It's a odd agruement

That's a terrible argument, because you are basically walling off an important part of the game from CP players. i understand why some players want No-CP Battlegrounds, and that's fine, but the rest of us who enjoy our progression should ALSO have a CP option so we can enjoy Battlegrounds, too.

You have it backwards! How is having a no-CP BG walling off content? A player with 690 CP can easily play no-CP or CP, they just need to compensate for sustain. A player with only 200 CP has CP content restricted since they cannot simply add 490 CP to their account.

It seems to me that someone is so self-centered that they forgot to consider how a new player would ever play a CP-only BG. Seriously, start a new account (not a character) and go play BG right now. You tell us how much fun it is, and you would even have an understanding of the meta/mechanics already.

As I have already noted in other posts, I would rather have no-CP if that means ZOS can add more options to the BG gameplay due to a higher population size. Then again I'm thinking about what's best for the game mode, not just myself.

pieratsos

Sarjako wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

I see a pattern here. They change to cp and people explode into chaos over it. Now they listen and change it back, and once again, more moaning. So the moral of the story is simply put: no matter what they bloody do, they can't win. Ridiculous if you ask me. Why do i even read these forums at all?

Its almost like its a known factor that there are players who only want to play No CP PVP, players who only want to play CP PVP, and a certain population who are willing to adjust builds to be able to play in both.

ZOS is making their choice based on the Battlegrounds population from the data they have, but unless they offer a CP and a No CP option and thus risk splitting a small population into unsustainability, someone is going to be left out. People who feel left out moan. What did you expect?

The issue with BGs is that they are not built for CP. Its not like cyro. BGs were designed for no CP fast paced where people can actually die instead of tanks just going at each other.

The same can be said about the No-CP environment. It was just 100% dependent on your gearset vs. a combination of your gearset and build choice in RE to CP. There were still tanks running around before doing much the same as they are now. With No-CP you're telling I basically need to go make/grind a new gearset just for Battlegrounds. Well I'll quit. It might be easy with all your add-ons on PC to switch gearsets but it's a PITA to do all the crap on a console without those add-ons. Ive spent countless hours just navigating the UI changing things about my character y'know? Just give me the choice. IDC if your Non-CP queue suffers. If you want to play No-CP, you'll have to wait a bit longer because well not as many people want to play with you. I can guarantee the CP queue will be much healthier because they're not forced to build switch going between Cyro and Battlegrounds.

No it was not the same. Not even close. Lmao.

They literally made CP BGs just for the sake of more population. And it failed. That should tell you a lot. Not even going to bother to answer all the rest of your egotistical nonsense.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

CP isn’t the issue. Pugs vs premades are. If you think the 30 CP you put into X that gave you 3.1% extra whatever is going to make you awesome....well, news flash, it’s not.

Joy_Division

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

CP isn’t the issue. Pugs vs premades are. If you think the 30 CP you put into X that gave you 3.1% extra whatever is going to make you awesome....well, news flash, it’s not.

Bingo.

I don't que for BGs unless I have a premade.

LUC1D7

NON CP is a good compromise for keeping BGs into a single queue. I hope they remove the less than 50 queue as well because there are so few people in it that I couldn't get in a match at all when I was leveling an alt. In CP matches there are already unkillable tanks. Those are fun dealing with in capture the relic.

ak_pvp

Cinbri wrote: »

It is not "use progression ". It called "being carried".
..

I don't like the CP system in its current form, but saying its being carried is stupid. In that case sets carry you, same with weapons. Only non cheese is naked fist fighting.

Emma_Overload

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

CP doesn't suit BattleGrounds at all. And I think splitting the queue would damage pop.

The progression argument is so wet, you still have your CP ticking away, and can go use it in PvE, or Vivec. Basically using that argument too are saying you want to smash low CP players and do so because of your CP. It's a odd agruement

That's a terrible argument, because you are basically walling off an important part of the game from CP players. i understand why some players want No-CP Battlegrounds, and that's fine, but the rest of us who enjoy our progression should ALSO have a CP option so we can enjoy Battlegrounds, too.

You have it backwards! How is having a no-CP BG walling off content? A player with 690 CP can easily play no-CP or CP, they just need to compensate for sustain. A player with only 200 CP has CP content restricted since they cannot simply add 490 CP to their account.

It seems to me that someone is so self-centered that they forgot to consider how a new player would ever play a CP-only BG. Seriously, start a new account (not a character) and go play BG right now. You tell us how much fun it is, and you would even have an understanding of the meta/mechanics already.

As I have already noted in other posts, I would rather have no-CP if that means ZOS can add more options to the BG gameplay due to a higher population size. Then again I'm thinking about what's best for the game mode, not just myself.

You missed the part where I said CP Battlegrounds should be an OPTION. In case I wasn't clear, I also think No-CP should be an option.

Beardimus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

CP doesn't suit BattleGrounds at all. And I think splitting the queue would damage pop.

The progression argument is so wet, you still have your CP ticking away, and can go use it in PvE, or Vivec. Basically using that argument too are saying you want to smash low CP players and do so because of your CP. It's a odd agruement

That's a terrible argument, because you are basically walling off an important part of the game from CP players. i understand why some players want No-CP Battlegrounds, and that's fine, but the rest of us who enjoy our progression should ALSO have a CP option so we can enjoy Battlegrounds, too.

By wanting to enjoy your progession you are just stating you want your advantage to be your CP other others. Really? That's a terrible argument, that you want your 690 to smash their 400.

On the whole this CP period led to mainly 690's playing so the progression was in essence parallel to the others anyway, but with far inferior game pace.

CP alienates so many players as coming in at 200CP is no fun. And many 690's were getting frustrated when their PUG did fill up with low CP players who they knew would get stomped.

This progression argument is just odd, it reads like people cant handle the concept of getting beat by a decent CP200 player, what's that matter!!

THe point for me has never been about personal performance, it's about the bigger picture of what's right for BG pace, and with CP heavily skewed to defence thus the drawn out impact to matches it didn't fit.

Devs knew that originally hence launching that way, and population has fallen since CP dropped (check leaderboards) as ita alienated low CP players and gone stale in terms of action.

This is the right call.

And whilst im ok with their being a choice, until population grows they should wait. Splitting the pop would be dangerous. Of the AP draws enough in or they offer it free to all no morrowond, then boom goes the option.

Said it before @Emma_Overload , as Sorc DPS you can dominate in NoCP, id happily group with ya if you were Xbox. NoCP BG is worth preserving with, and I've played both a ton.

Regardless, good job ZOS listening to the BG community.

Grabmoore

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

It is not "use progression ". It called "being carried".
..

I don't like the CP system in its current form, but saying its being carried is stupid. In that case sets carry you, same with weapons. Only non cheese is naked fist fighting.

Sets, that everyone, who plays this game for 3 month, could aquire

Enough with those shield stacking sorcs and never out of resource dks. Finally we can enjoy PvP on the most even footing.

ed7878

Two words, problem solved: group dueling.