Calrid wrote: »

I understand it is now the equivalent of putting your hand down the queen mum's knickers, but before I left it was de rigeuer or right on if you'll forgive my French why is now considered evil, and in what way does using that weapon of war that every nation on Earth uses bad. Now I am not debating if it is bad or good, it clearly was bad but no one has been able to tell me why, except to say it was ruining the game? In history spying won wars, you know cracking the engima code and so on, why is it bad in this game?

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Because they integrated a stealth system for all in the game. It destroyed pvp

Calrid wrote: »

I understand it is now the equivalent of putting your hand down the queen mum's knickers, but before I left it was de rigeuer or right on if you'll forgive my French why is now considered evil, and in what way does using that weapon of war that every nation on Earth uses bad. Now I am not debating if it is bad or good, it clearly was bad but no one has been able to tell me why, except to say it was ruining the game? In history spying won wars, you know cracking the engima code and so on, why is it bad in this game?

Lol you are comparing history to eso PvP?
The main difference is that in history the spies are risking something (their lives, usually), while in eso they can't even be attacked or reported, so they are risking nothing.

I'm not sure what you are saying is spying bad or good? You seem to be conflicted, and the reasons you gave seem equally conflicted?

sorry for the multi posts I'm multi tasking. I understand that it is considered wrong, but it's still a winning strategy, and when I was here a year ago, was informed that winning is rather important in pvp. Act like that in pve and you will get booted, the worst you can expect in PVP is booted and added to an ignore list, which with most people having multiple characters, in any one faction, is not really a problem.

Now I am not going to use it now because everyone is saying it is wrong, so I want to be in groups, eventually of course I will be ignored by every group in pvp, for doing the wrong thing. I'm just saying why is it bad apart from the fact it makes you a ***?

And yes I am comparing pvp to war, because that is what it is, it's not a funbag of love and friendly banter per se unless you are on the same team, if you think people are not competative because it's just a game, you have misunderstood my point, and history. I'm pretty sure Kasparov was not loving getting beaten by a computer either or the other guy.

Calrid wrote: »

sorry for the multi posts I'm multi tasking. I understand that it is considered wrong, but it's still a winning strategy, and when I was here a year ago, was informed that winning is rather important in pvp. Act like that in pve and you will get booted, the worst you can expect in PVP is booted and added to an ignore list, which with most people having multiple characters, in any one faction, is not really a problem.

Now I am not going to use it now because everyone is saying it is wrong, so I want to be in groups, eventually of course I will be ignored by every group in pvp, for doing the wrong thing. I'm just saying why is it bad apart from the fact it makes you a ***?

And yes I am comparing pvp to war, because that is what it is, it's not a funbag of love and friendly banter per se unless you are on the same team, if you think people are not competative because it's just a game, you have misunderstood my point, and history. I'm pretty sure Kasparov was not loving getting beaten by a computer either or the other guy.

It can be a winning strategy. Its certainly the action of a faction loyalist who doesn't mind being a jerk to other players who happen to be on the opposite teams.

The game is designed for us all to have fun the up-front, open combat way. You can gank, fight, kill, jump out of stealth with a full raid, destro pain train, whatever you want to in Cyrodiil combat and we all agreed to that and hopefully have fun doing that. But those are designed so that the enemy teams are the enemy, and people on your team are on your team. Spies, on the other hand, are when members of your team aren't on your team and are instead relaying information back to the enemy.

Some things like going to the other faction and watching their zone chat - whatever. That's pretty much a waste of time because zone chat often won't tell you more than you should have already been able to tell from just watching the map yourself. Mind you, one reason zone chat won't tell you more than that is because of known spies.

Messing around with someone's PUG group - that's pretty much deciding to sabotage someone else's fun night in the game by spying to give yourself an advantage you wouldn't have just from playing on your faction's side. Its a jerk move. If you are okay with being a jerk in order to get that fun, go for it. (Though please imagine this as the PVE equivalent of pretending to be incompetent to wreck a dungeon or trial run for random players.)

Joining an enemy guild for the express purpose of being a spy and traitor is, again, a jerk move by taking advantage of people's trust. If you are okay with being a jerk for the sake of your faction, go for it. (The closest PVE equivalent here is those people who join up with a guild, work their way into a position of trust, and then the guild bank suddenly gets emptied.)

So the real question I'd have is: How far are you willing to let faction loyalty in a video game lead you to be a jerk to other players who just want to have fun in the game like you do but happen to be on the other team?

Personally, I'm not willing to let a video game turn me into someone who thinks being a jerk is okay.

Spying in a game like this means nothing. The reason spying in games like eve online is a legitimate practice is because it requires actual in game cunning and deception. The game has systems in place for which there is actual risk of loss involved on a permanent or semi permanent basis.

Eso has none of that. And more importantly your reputation carries very little weight here aside from not being allowed in certain premade zerg groups or guilds which is laughable at best and frankly no one really cares. Hanging out in team speak to sabatoge an enemy faction requires ZERO cunning or ability to subvert your intentions and is border line meta RPing and just means you need to find better things to do with your time in eso. Cyrdoil is not that serious sorry.

I see thanks that all makes sense guys. Thanks for the info.