Magic / Ice Staff tanking & major fracture

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

I started to enjoy - on normal - the added flexibility of tanking with an ice staff... i like that you have more options now, mixing shield + staff or going all staff etc... what always bugs me tough is that you don't have an easy access to major fracture - or you need to use an additional skill slot for it...i think this a bit annoying...

Wouldn't it be beneficial if for example elemental successability would also receive major fracture? Or one morph of inner fire receives it and does less damage on the other hand (or the synergy could be to apply major fracture and major synergy)....?

Because i think that is one of the big annoyances with magicka tanking

Ch4mpTW · January 2018

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Tanking with an ice staff is and forever will be a joke. I’m being 100% honest with you. Look at the sword and shield passives and skills, and then look at the destruction staff passives and skills. There is no logical reason that a person would choose to tank with an ice staff over a sword and shield, unless if they’re doing so to be contrary. To go against the grain, and be rebellious.

Mind you, am I saying that it can’t be done? No. As you can probably go into any normal dungeon and tank just fine with an ice staff. As well as the vast majority of overland content probably. However, if you go into veteran dungeons and trials (even normal trials)... And call yourself tanking with an ice staff? I’m quite certain that you’ll have a few individuals either upset by you, or highly annoyed.

Niobium · January 2018

If only people had two bars and could use a sword and board on one and an ice staff on the other.

If only..

Pele · January 2018

A destro staff source of Major Fracture is needed if the Ice Staff is going to remain a tanking weapon. It'd be one of many much needed tweaks to staff tanking.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Mind you, am I saying that it can’t be done? No. As you can probably go into any normal dungeon and tank just fine with an ice staff. As well as the vast majority of overland content probably. However, if you go into veteran dungeons and trials (even normal trials)... And call yourself tanking with an ice staff? I’m quite certain that you’ll have a few individuals either upset by you, or highly annoyed.

Back barring an ice staff works just fine in vet content. Maybe if you're a failure at tanking, you couldn't efficiently tank with a back bar ice staff. Or did you mean double bar ice staff setups?

Asardes · January 2018

If you want to tank effectively on a magicka character the best option by far is to go 1H+S front bar al lightning staff back bar, for the off-balance. This works well even in the toughest content. You can't really parry hard hits with an ice staff due to lack of passives. Also the channel for staves is much longer than for melee 1H weapons so doing a quick HA to get back stamina is less risky than a long one to get back magicka. Ice staff applies maim, but so does Heroic Slash, so it's not an unique effect.

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

well sure you can go 1h+s - but as said, if you have a magicka option why not improve on it so you have more options, more choice, more flexbility and builds....

Sometimes i think the attitude on the forum is a bit said at times - this NO you need to do it like this and only like this and no different and don't think about improving or changing anything cause the alternative is *** and always will be ***...well

Ch4mpTW · January 2018

Pele wrote: »

A destro staff source of Major Fracture is needed if the Ice Staff is going to remain a tanking weapon. It'd be one of many much needed tweaks to staff tanking.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Mind you, am I saying that it can’t be done? No. As you can probably go into any normal dungeon and tank just fine with an ice staff. As well as the vast majority of overland content probably. However, if you go into veteran dungeons and trials (even normal trials)... And call yourself tanking with an ice staff? I’m quite certain that you’ll have a few individuals either upset by you, or highly annoyed.

Back barring an ice staff works just fine in vet content. Maybe if you're a failure at tanking, you couldn't efficiently tank with a back bar ice staff. Or did you mean double bar ice staff setups?

Why would you do that, however? That’s like the same argument that people used with “bow builds” topics. And even then, I said the same thing. Why would you do that, and intentionally make things difficult? Why go against the grain, and be contrary? In this particular case, it is tanking. Your job as a tank is to: Hold aggro of the target(s), properly position the target(s), de-buff the target(s), and supply damage when appropriate. Why make things more complex than they have to be by using an ice staff?

Aisle9 · January 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Tanking with an ice staff is and forever will be a joke. I’m being 100% honest with you. Look at the sword and shield passives and skills, and then look at the destruction staff passives and skills. There is no logical reason that a person would choose to tank with an ice staff over a sword and shield, unless if they’re doing so to be contrary. To go against the grain, and be rebellious.

Mind you, am I saying that it can’t be done? No. As you can probably go into any normal dungeon and tank just fine with an ice staff. As well as the vast majority of overland content probably. However, if you go into veteran dungeons and trials (even normal trials)... And call yourself tanking with an ice staff? I’m quite certain that you’ll have a few individuals either upset by you, or highly annoyed.

Forever is a long time, but for now, yeah.

1H and shield was thought as a tanking solution, Ice staff was adapted because nobody was using the ice staff for dps. The main issue is that there are a lot of advantages in using S&B as opposed to an Ice Staff that go beyond the inability to apply major fracture.

That said, it's easily solved if your group has a stamina nightblade. Surprise attack applies major fracture and it's a wonderful spammable on top of that.

It's a workaround, yes, but it's better than nothing.

As for having a reliable source of Major fracture in the Destro staff skill line, I'd rather have a whole new skill line for magic users altogether, instead of messing with destro staff again.

Weapon skill, 1H and Rune:

Frost rune: first skill in the line applies major fracture and major breach.
Fire rune: first skill in the line does 10% more damage.
Lightning rune: first skill in the line has increased chance to apply status effect.

All runes apply status effects similarly to the different destro staves. Frost rune applies chilled, Fire rune applies burning, Lighning rune applies concussed. Light attacks and Heavy attacks restore magicka.

That makes much more sense than a frost staff, plus gives the same advantages of S&B which is the ability to equip 2 different 5 pieces sets, instead of having 5/4 or having to sacrifice the monster set.

Then you can have a tank with magic.

But that's just my opinion.

troomar · January 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Look at the sword and shield passives and skills, and then look at the destruction staff passives and skills. There is no logical reason that a person would choose to tank with an ice staff over a sword and shield...

Ok, let's do it.

Sword&Board passives:
- Fortress - reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
- Sword and Board - the amount of damage you can block by 20%
- Deflect Bolts - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 15%.

Ice Staff:
- Tri Focus - While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina
- Ancient Knowledge - Frost Staff reduces the cost of blocking by 30% and increases the amount of damage you block by 20%

So, the only real difference is that 15% from ranged attacks. I'm not saying the Ice Staff tanking is better, but calling it a joke is a joke.

If you want to tank with S&B, you have to be a hybrid = manage both Magicka and Stamina pools. With an Ice Staff, you can fully utilize Magicka pool to your advantage.

Check my Ice Staff Magicka tank build, works pretty fine in veteran content: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388372/true-magicka-sorcerer-tank-non-selfish-build-4-man-pug. Major Fracture is an issue though.

Aisle9 · January 2018

troomar wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Look at the sword and shield passives and skills, and then look at the destruction staff passives and skills. There is no logical reason that a person would choose to tank with an ice staff over a sword and shield...

Ok, let's do it.

Sword&Board passives:
- Fortress - reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
- Sword and Board - the amount of damage you can block by 20%
- Deflect Bolts - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 15%.

Ice Staff:
- Tri Focus - While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina
- Ancient Knowledge - Frost Staff reduces the cost of blocking by 30% and increases the amount of damage you block by 20%

So, the only real difference is that 15% from ranged attacks. I'm not saying the Ice Staff tanking is better, but calling it a joke is a joke.

If you want to tank with S&B, you have to be a hybrid = manage both Magicka and Stamina pools. With an Ice Staff, you can fully utilize Magicka pool to your advantage.

Check my Ice Staff Magicka tank build, works pretty fine in veteran content: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388372/true-magicka-sorcerer-tank-non-selfish-build-4-man-pug. Major Fracture is an issue though.

And the ability to move 60% faster while keeping up block.
And the ability to use 2 different 5 pieces sets AND a monster set.
And a reliable way to apply minor maim and major heroism.
And an 8% block cost reduction if you slot a certain skill.
And a cheap ultimate that make you block everything at no cost for a short time.

Let's not kid ourselves, it's not "just the 15% reduction from ranged attacks".

troomar · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to move 60% faster while keeping up block.

Is it really that useful? It's kinda hard for me to say since I have a source of Major Expedition. But is it the difference that makes the tanking with an Ice Staff a joke? I don't think so. But I don't deny it's an advantage.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to use 2 different 5 pieces sets AND a monster set.

False. I use 2x 5-piece sets AND monster set in my build.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a reliable way to apply minor maim and major heroism.

False. You can run S&B on your back bar for these debuffs.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And an 8% block cost reduction if you slot a certain skill.

It says when it's slotted. You can slot it to any bar you want if you really need this little reduction for a cost of 1 skill on your bar.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a cheap ultimate that make you block everything at no cost for a short time.

False. You can run it on back bar.

Aisle9 wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, it's not "just the 15% reduction from ranged attacks".

I still don't see why Ice Staff tanking is a joke compared to S&B tanking. You are forgetting that with Ice Staff you can utilize your Magicka and while this is hard to compare, it's definitely an advantage over S&B.

Rungar · January 2018

the real value to the ice staff, which can be used for any vet dungeons no problem, is that when you get low on stam you have an alternate blocking method to use which allows you to regenerate stam.

so really having both is the best setup but of course you need to equip yourself to take advantage of that.

it works well with plague doctor and magicka furnace with your choice of monster set i.e bloodspawn, lord warden, chudan, tremorscale etc.

pop dragon blood and switch to staff, take a few hits and your good to go again.

Jade1986 · January 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Tanking with an ice staff is and forever will be a joke. I’m being 100% honest with you. Look at the sword and shield passives and skills, and then look at the destruction staff passives and skills. There is no logical reason that a person would choose to tank with an ice staff over a sword and shield, unless if they’re doing so to be contrary. To go against the grain, and be rebellious.

Mind you, am I saying that it can’t be done? No. As you can probably go into any normal dungeon and tank just fine with an ice staff. As well as the vast majority of overland content probably. However, if you go into veteran dungeons and trials (even normal trials)... And call yourself tanking with an ice staff? I’m quite certain that you’ll have a few individuals either upset by you, or highly annoyed.

Do vet content on my orc warden ice tank no issues.

Jade1986 · January 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

well sure you can go 1h+s - but as said, if you have a magicka option why not improve on it so you have more options, more choice, more flexbility and builds....

Sometimes i think the attitude on the forum is a bit said at times - this NO you need to do it like this and only like this and no different and don't think about improving or changing anything cause the alternative is *** and always will be ***...well

Agreed.

As I see it on the forums when it comes to tanking its either play EXACTLY like they want or you arent a tank. Sad really.

That being said, Ice tanking works best with the warden class. If you arent a warden, then yeah, I can see how it may be difficult. But as a warden, its super easy.

Aisle9 · January 2018

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to move 60% faster while keeping up block.

Is it really that useful? It's kinda hard for me to say since I have a source of Major Expedition. But is it the difference that makes the tanking with an Ice Staff a joke? I don't think so. But I don't deny it's an advantage.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to use 2 different 5 pieces sets AND a monster set.

False. I use 2x 5-piece sets AND monster set in my build.

Impossible: 7 slots for body, 3 slots for jewelry, 1 slot for Frost Staff. Total 11 pieces. Check your math.

Unless you also use S&B, which will make your point moot.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a reliable way to apply minor maim and major heroism.

False. You can run S&B on your back bar for these debuffs.

Not False, you will need S&B to apply all of that. The Frost staff in itself doesn't allow it. Check your argument.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And an 8% block cost reduction if you slot a certain skill.

It says when it's slotted. You can slot it to any bar you want if you really need this little reduction for a cost of 1 skill on your bar.

Not enough to slot it, you also need S&B.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a cheap ultimate that make you block everything at no cost for a short time.

False. You can run it on back bar.

Not false, you will need a S&B, the Frost Staff doesn't have that, as the destruction staff is mainly an offensive weapon.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, it's not "just the 15% reduction from ranged attacks".

I still don't see why Ice Staff tanking is a joke compared to S&B tanking. You are forgetting that with Ice Staff you can utilize your Magicka and while this is hard to compare, it's definitely an advantage over S&B.

Because you're still using a S&B to get the significant buffs and debuffs. The Frost Staff desn't give you any of those.

It's really simple.

You can say "I can get all of the buffs if I also run S&B", but ultimately, it's a crutch. You can tank with an Ice Staff, but you still need S&B to get all the advantages I mentioned.

Jade1986 · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to move 60% faster while keeping up block.

Is it really that useful? It's kinda hard for me to say since I have a source of Major Expedition. But is it the difference that makes the tanking with an Ice Staff a joke? I don't think so. But I don't deny it's an advantage.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to use 2 different 5 pieces sets AND a monster set.

False. I use 2x 5-piece sets AND monster set in my build.

Impossible: 7 slots for body, 3 slots for jewelry, 1 slot for Frost Staff. Total 11 pieces. Check your math.

Unless you also use S&B, which will make your point moot.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a reliable way to apply minor maim and major heroism.

False. You can run S&B on your back bar for these debuffs.

Not False, you will need S&B to apply all of that. The Frost staff in itself doesn't allow it. Check your argument.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And an 8% block cost reduction if you slot a certain skill.

It says when it's slotted. You can slot it to any bar you want if you really need this little reduction for a cost of 1 skill on your bar.

Not enough to slot it, you also need S&B.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a cheap ultimate that make you block everything at no cost for a short time.

False. You can run it on back bar.

Not false, you will need a S&B, the Frost Staff doesn't have that, as the destruction staff is mainly an offensive weapon.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, it's not "just the 15% reduction from ranged attacks".

I still don't see why Ice Staff tanking is a joke compared to S&B tanking. You are forgetting that with Ice Staff you can utilize your Magicka and while this is hard to compare, it's definitely an advantage over S&B.

Because you're still using a S&B to get the significant buffs and debuffs. The Frost Staff desn't give you any of those.

It's really simple.

You can say "I can get all of the buffs if I also run S&B", but ultimately, it's a crutch. You can tank with an Ice Staff, but you still need S&B to get all the advantages I mentioned.

Not with an ice warden.

Heroism - Shimmering Shield ( Plus increased ulti generation with animal companion passives )
Breach and Fracture - Sub Assault
Maim - Ice staff
Extra movement speed - Deceptive Predator, plus a 5% dodge chance

As for the 8% reduction, as with ALL " must be slotted to have x effect " abilities, it has to be on both bars. Which is a waste of space.

The only real advantage I can see is an extra armor piece for sets. But even that, you can compensate for if you build it right.

Ladislao · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

Impossible: 7 slots for body, 3 slots for jewelry, 1 slot for Frost Staff. Total 11 pieces. Check your math.

Unless you also use S&B, which will make your point moot.

I guess there are 2 monster set, 4+1staff the first set and 4+1staff the second set. So you always have at least one set active.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Jade1986 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to move 60% faster while keeping up block.

Is it really that useful? It's kinda hard for me to say since I have a source of Major Expedition. But is it the difference that makes the tanking with an Ice Staff a joke? I don't think so. But I don't deny it's an advantage.

Aisle9 wrote: »

And the ability to use 2 different 5 pieces sets AND a monster set.

False. I use 2x 5-piece sets AND monster set in my build.

Impossible: 7 slots for body, 3 slots for jewelry, 1 slot for Frost Staff. Total 11 pieces. Check your math.

Unless you also use S&B, which will make your point moot.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a reliable way to apply minor maim and major heroism.

False. You can run S&B on your back bar for these debuffs.

Not False, you will need S&B to apply all of that. The Frost staff in itself doesn't allow it. Check your argument.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And an 8% block cost reduction if you slot a certain skill.

It says when it's slotted. You can slot it to any bar you want if you really need this little reduction for a cost of 1 skill on your bar.

Not enough to slot it, you also need S&B.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

And a cheap ultimate that make you block everything at no cost for a short time.

False. You can run it on back bar.

Not false, you will need a S&B, the Frost Staff doesn't have that, as the destruction staff is mainly an offensive weapon.

troomar wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, it's not "just the 15% reduction from ranged attacks".

I still don't see why Ice Staff tanking is a joke compared to S&B tanking. You are forgetting that with Ice Staff you can utilize your Magicka and while this is hard to compare, it's definitely an advantage over S&B.

Because you're still using a S&B to get the significant buffs and debuffs. The Frost Staff desn't give you any of those.

It's really simple.

You can say "I can get all of the buffs if I also run S&B", but ultimately, it's a crutch. You can tank with an Ice Staff, but you still need S&B to get all the advantages I mentioned.

Not with an ice warden.

Heroism - Shimmering Shield ( Plus increased ulti generation with animal companion passives )
Breach and Fracture - Sub Assault
Maim - Ice staff
Extra movement speed - Deceptive Predator, plus a 5% dodge chance

As for the 8% reduction, as with ALL " must be slotted to have x effect " abilities, it has to be on both bars. Which is a waste of space.

The only real advantage I can see is an extra armor piece for sets. But even that, you can compensate for if you build it right.

Shimmering Shield gives you heroism when you are hit by a projectile, which most bosses don't have, therefore it's not reliable.

Maim from Ice staff requires a status effect proc, which means it's not reliable.

Deceptive predator gives you Major Expedition (30% movement speed increase) for 10 seconds, then you have to recast it. Battlefield mobility is a passive, therefore always active when the requirements are met (holding down block) and the effect is to lessen the severe movement speed (down to 40%) penalty when you hold down block. Here's the difference between Battlefield Mobility and Major Expedition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqUIBjbZtOg

You don't need to slot Defensive Posture on both bars, just on the main one, the one you use to tank (S&B), which is impossible if the bar you use to tank is your Ice Staff.

You can keep living in denial or accept the simple fact: S&B is better. I'd love to see something new, but not something patched to make something already existing more relevant. Also, let's face it, taunting with a fully charged heavy attack is clunky AF.

Ladislao wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Impossible: 7 slots for body, 3 slots for jewelry, 1 slot for Frost Staff. Total 11 pieces. Check your math.

Unless you also use S&B, which will make your point moot.

I guess there are 2 monster set, 4+1staff the first set and 4+1staff the second set. So you always have at least one set active.

And if you will always have only 1 set active at any given time Ebon + Plague doctor: can't be done, Ebon + Hist Bark: can't be done, Hist Bark + Plague Doctor: can't be done.

Right now that the meta is Torug + Dragon, sure, maybe, Dragon back for Horn, Torug front for Crusher. But tomorrow, when the meta changes, you precluded yourself a large number of options.

But let me make something clear: I'm not saying it's not possible, of course it is. It's possible to tank with a bow, if you really want it.

I'm just saying there are better alternatives. The day there is a better alternative than S&B I'll be the first one to try it. Ice Staff ain't it. I'd rather tank with a bow.

Magdalina · January 2018

Whole ice staff tanking thing still seems kinda weird to me. It's like...versatility for the sake of versatility? I mean, I do think more versatility is good. But not when all it has going for it is simply being "different". Yes, you can tank normals and even most vets with an ice staff. (Coincidentally, you can also do most normals and even vets without a tank at all) Yes, it feels unique and cool and looks different. No, it is not providing you with a SINGLE advantage over s&b while denying you so many things s&b easily provides. I also don't see how ZOS could possibly rework this unless they gave every destro staff type a separate skill tree(which actually could be interesting) or something because staves are primarily a dps weapon and they can't magically shove 5 extra tanking passives in there.

Edit: Also, correct me if I'm wrong but haven't people done calculations and found out that blocking with ice staff costs like 5 times as much magicka as s&b blocking costs stamina? While stacking magicka is somewhat easier, that's a hell of a huge difference there.

Radiance · January 2018

People complain about Not enough tanks and this is why...
Initially i was not a big fan of the Sword and Shield look or skill tree.
I have a Warden Healer that does better as an Ice Staff Tank that opened me to the possibility of tanking altogether. I don't do it to be contrary or go against the grain but because it's fun. Destro Staff has that Elemental Weakness skill that returns magic and lowers magic defense, that coupled with Ice AOES that make for the perfect Crowd Control, freezing all mobs in place while the Boss stays easily taunted with constant Heavy Hits... I like that it gives depth to the 4 different magic types, Restoration Healing, Fire and lightning Destruction, and Defensive Ice that brings more originality to Magicka playstyles in the absence of all magic based weapons But a 2h Staff... I won't argue that it needs some updates but I manage just fine, I typically use a restoration staff on my backbar for supportive healing/ to absorb ranged magic projectile attacks that also return magic. Swap out Resto for S&B when you need to focus more on defense and have a decent healer.

Edited to say that i'm guessing those who strongly oppose it got their Tanking start as a S&B Stam Tank... Ice staff tanking can be as effective, I think it's just a different playstyle you may not be used to but, there are so many different options for DPS weapons and staves, we shouldn't lock the entire Tanking Role behind one SkillTree like Healer...

Rungar · January 2018

for me it costs 203 to block with magic and 87 I think for stam. A little over twice as much.

if you use blockade of ice in addition to chilled if you happen to kill anything you get 3600 mag back so theres that and of course you can still block while regenerating stam.

its not an either or discussion since you can have both at the same time. Saying one is better than the other is not really relevant when your looking for the synergy between them and use both.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Radiance wrote: »

People complain about Not enough tanks and this is why...
Initially i was not a big fan of the Sword and Shield look or skill tree.
I have a Warden Healer that does better as an Ice Staff Tank that opened me to the possibility of tanking altogether. I don't do it to be contrary or go against the grain but because it's fun. Destro Staff has that Elemental Weakness skill that returns magic and lowers magic defense, that coupled with Ice AOES that make for the perfect Crowd Control, freezing all mobs in place while the Boss stays easily taunted with constant Heavy Hits... I like that it gives depth to the 4 different magic types, Restoration Healing, Fire and lightning Destruction, and Defensive Ice that brings more originality to Magicka playstyles in the absence of all magic based weapons But a 2h Staff... I won't argue that it needs some updates but I manage just fine, I typically use a restoration staff on my backbar for supportive healing/ to absorb ranged magic projectile attacks that also return magic. Swap out Resto for S&B when you need to focus more on defense and have a decent healer.

While all of what you said is fine (except the Ice AOEs making the perfect Crowd Control, I wouldn't call 25% chance to apply the root perfect...) and it's true you can tank with w/e you want, I'm mostly talking about endgame (veteran trials).

As I said, you can tank with whatever you want, even with a bow, but when you have a better alternative, the only reason you go for the other is for the look or for the challenge.

I tank with a Lightning Staff, does that makes it better than the Ice Staff ? No, it's a gimmick, and I like it.

S&B offers much better benefits.

That is a fact, and if the refusal of facts is the reason there are no tanks in the game, well, nothing I can do about it.

Chaos2088 · January 2018

Bring back Ice staffs to a proper DPS function and come up with something else for magical tanking.

No idea as to what but surely a destruction staff with all its passive should go towards destruction not tanking/taunt.

NyassaV · January 2018

eledrain should apply fracture if you have an ice staff... Done problem solved easy fix

paulsimonps · January 2018

This thread seems like a lot of fun.....

I can only see one place where Ice staff tanking is of any use what so ever, and that is if you are off tanking in +1 or +2 vAS. In all other situations S&B outperforms by a lot. Lightning staff back bar or Dual Wield back bar has its uses though and are things to consider for certain fights or builds. But I would love for anyone to actually tell me why Ice Staff would be the better option outside of what I just said. And please, the magicka instead of stamina is far from a good reason, higher block cost and all other skills you use will be magicka as well draining your sustain a lot, at least with S&B you can spread out your resource use better between both stamina and magicka, as well all classes other than Templars really have varying ways to get stamina back that is not recovery. And while Templars have a way to get back magicka, it would be on a templar, who lacks a lot of other qualities and skills that are useful for a tank.

Taleof2Cities · January 2018

I think for the sake of discussion, @paulsimonps, it’s important not to get tunnel-visioned on end game content. Same for you, @Aisle9.

In fact, the OP doesn’t refer to any type of content.

Because it’s a viable playstyle in most types of content ... where the majority of ice tanks play the game and might be reading this discussion. And, those are the players might benefit to having major fracture on another skill or passive.

paulsimonps · January 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think for the sake of discussion, @paulsimonps, it’s important not to get tunnel-visioned on end game content. Same for you, @Aisle9.

In fact, the OP doesn’t refer to any type of content.

Because it’s a viable playstyle in most types of content ... where the majority of ice tanks play the game and might be reading this discussion. And, those are the players might benefit to having major fracture on another skill or passive.

True. But, considering you can do non end game content, non DLC dungeons and overworld with incredible ease why bring up something like this if not for that? You can tank non end game content with pretty much anything and still do a good if not great job, so why worry about not having that one buff? To optimize for non end game content? Seems like a big waste of time, I mean play as you wish but always consider the consequences of your choices in build.

As far as I know these are the current sources Major Fracture(correct me if I am wrong cause then I need to update my thread about it):

One Hand and Shield Ability: Puncture+Morhps
Nightblade Assassination Ability: Mark Target+Morphs
Nightblade Shadow Ability: Surprise Attack (Morph of Veiled Strike)
Dragonknight Ardent Flame Ability: Noxious Breath (Morph of Fiery Breath)
Warden Animal Companion Ability: Subterranean Assault (Morph of Scorch)

This means that 3 out of 5 classes already have access to Major Fracture outside of One Handed and Shield. These 3 also happens to be the 3 most common Tank classes I would say, at least as far as I see in game and on the forums. Side note: I would rate Sorcs as better tanks thank NBs and Templars as worst but that is besides the point.

OP asked for Major Fracture to be added into something that they are already using, in other words in the Destruction Tree Skill Line or the Undaunted Skill Line. There would be value into giving them that as they are lacking in a lot of areas already. My post was to question the fact as to why even run it in its current form, there are some that claims that it is really good and has a lot of pros through its cons. I for one would love for someone to point them out. Ice Staff needs a buff, a severe one if it is to be actually considered a viable option that while not outshining One Handed and Shield should at least be its equal. It would be a lot better off if it was more designed to be One Handed and Shields Magicka counter part where One Handed and Shield is the Stamina part.

Tanking has for always been a hybrid, it has always required a good balance of both stamina and magicka resources and management. But with Ice Staff it came with the opportunity to change the formula up in doing it in a bit of a reverse. It could have been a cool thing, it was however a big flop as when it came out it had far to many cons in contrast to its pros as far as PvE Tanking was concerned and it got a lot of hate from parts of the community for ruining their idea of a Destructive Frost Mage DPS.

Major Fracture is one of just many things that Ice Staff Tanking is currently lacking. Adding a way for Magicka Tanks to have it without adding an extra class skill would just be a patch up job at best. There really needs to be a lot more done to it for it to be anything but a flavor choice for non end game tanks, its a viable choice yes, but then again so is a lot of other badly optimized things in terms of Tanking as there is a lot more options to choose from. But again, viable does not mean optimized, and like I said before, why ask for something like this if not to optimize.