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Should 2h weapons count as 2 items for set bonus?
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boombazookajd✭✭✭✭✭for the 1.5 x 10^45 time, NO.
google calculator turns this into vocabulary. What in the hell kind of witchcraft is that?Drathus Delenu- Dunmer magDk: Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Stormproof, Peak Scaler, Clockwork Confounder, Orderly, Master Wizard, Cloudrest Hero, Undaunted, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Thoronir Rolston- Breton petsorc: Stormproof
Zaakazha-Redguard stamblade: Boethia's Scythe, Clockwork Confounder, Maelstrom Arena Champion, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Scrubs:
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Agronak gro'Mashul- Orc DK Tank
Valerya Hawkcroft- Breton healer
Zaaka- Imperial stamDK/crafter
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Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭YesThey should at LEAST add a dual wield type of weapon for Magicka users....wands??
II dont think its quite balanced for stamina user and tanks having an option to do a 2 set bonus but a magicka user is screwed using a stamina weapon just for the set bonusEdited by Mitoice on January 5, 2018 1:00AM5 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoWhy making 2H count as 2 items but not making 1H weapons count as half item?
As they did it (technically) for Master and Maelstrom weapons.
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoSame as always...
Because balance and stuff.
Because two-handed weapons have their own advantages over two-piece weapon skill lines. Bows and staves have extra range, 2H has more damage per blow... that balances the lack of a second weapon set piece and trait.
This keeps weapons more -different-; which is a good thing, people having to make choices, having to make a decision about if they want the second slot, or the other advantage... but not getting both!
That being said...
The one thing in this rergard the game -could- really use would be more options, so magica characters are not limited to "staff only"... maybe something like: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii0 -
beetleklee✭✭✭✭I'd rather magicka users not be limited to staff only, like another skill line for dual wielding. Wands? Sword and Rune? Double casting with hands? The 2 handed staves get boring. It'd be cool to run two one-handed magic weapons front bar with staff backbar or something.Edited by beetleklee on January 5, 2018 1:42AMPC NA
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Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭YesTheShadowScout wrote: »Bows and staves have extra range, 2H has more damage per blow... that balances the lack of a second weapon set piece and trait.
That hardly balances a second weapon set piece and trait. If slotting dual wield limited all skills on that bar to melee range only it might. If a 2H weapon increased the damage/performance of all skills on that bar it might.
The Vegemite Knight2 -
Deloth_Vyrr✭✭✭YesTo all those saying No, in a way they have already kind of done so in a bit of an half-assed, bandaid kind of way by making Master/Maelstrom/CWC weapons 1 piece sets for 2H weapons.
They really should just go all the way and roll this out to all sets and let players get their 5 piece bonuses when wearing 4 pieces that include a 2H weapon.<Twin-Moons Covenant> PC NA
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coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoThey should at LEAST add a dual wield type of weapon for Magicka users....wands??
II dont think its quite balanced for stamina user and tanks having an option to do a 2 set bonus but a magicka user is screwed using a stamina weapon just for the set bonus
People barely play stamina as it is because magicka is so OPHoping for more playable races.
I just want werewolf to be viable in endgame PvE T.T (which not allowed according to PTS update 50)4 -
Nolic1✭✭✭NoSo you all know Rich Lambert said in todays live stream it has been something they have thrown around but nothing as if it is coming or not.
And I say no cause it would create an imbalance unless they brought its natural damage down to 1 handed weapons and gave it a 6% increase from a passive to make it equal to dual wield other wise it would become super op.Sherman from Sherman's Gaming
Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoIt'd only work if significant changes were made to the DW and 2H skill lines.
Really I'd just prefer a few minor tweaks to 2H to increase its PvE viability. It's almost there. Brawler and the splash damage passives are perfect for cleave-focused PvE builds, they just need a bit of a buff IMO. The lack of a dagger analog doesn't help either. It'd be cool to see a spear or some other weapon with a crit/crit damage bonus introduced, either as a new 2H weapon type or a new weapon skill line altogether.0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭So you all know Rich Lambert said in todays live stream it has been something they have thrown around but nothing as if it is coming or not.
And I say no cause it would create an imbalance unless they brought its natural damage down to 1 handed weapons and gave it a 6% increase from a passive to make it equal to dual wield other wise it would become super op.
They nerfed 2 handed a long time ago. Damage and passives wise 2 handed is EXACTLY the same as DW but only slower. Same DPS but more damage per hit, BUT SLOWER.
If they gave it 2 handed another set bonus it would make them equal.... like they should be.Dude Where's My Guar?2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
That depends entirely upon the situation.Sordidfairytale wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »Bows and staves have extra range, 2H has more damage per blow... that balances the lack of a second weapon set piece and trait.
That hardly balances a second weapon set piece and trait...
I am guessing, you never yet PvPed defending a keep, right? Having heavy attacks with -range- is a great thing up on the walls
And we all recall when WB spam -ruled- cyrodil... and 2H is still on top of many things despite that having been nerfed (as was quite obviously gonna happen).
But in the end... look at what works, people play that. And considering the -huge- number of magica builds getting their jollies from heavy magica recovery attacks that way, I daresay staves are not in the least lacking compared to S&B and DW...
Bows... well, a case could be made for those. -winces, since main character PvPlays as archer-
Point is, if those were "hardly balanced", they would not be so darn successful. So logic dictates they -are- balanced, for the most part anyhow, and its just the many, many people who use them being envious of the last little advantage the other weapons have...0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesYes, but it needs to actually be an item that goes into the equipment slot.0331
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Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoMy answer might not be popular, but just because a sword, axe, or maul require two hands to wield doesn’t make it more than one item.
If it counts as two pieces for set bonus, why shouldn’t that same 2H have two enchants on it at the same time?2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes
Dual wield has unique consequences (both negative and positive).
could you explain your reasoning? the idea of having set balance be independent of weapon class seems reasonable (regardless of whether that's 11 or 12 pieces for everyone to work with), and I don't see how it negatively impacts customization.Seriously, this whole idea never had any traction. Might as well throw out any sort of character customization and go back to Quake 3.
By taking away uniqueness and making everything the same (all weapons count as two pieces) you are *reducing* build diversity.
People want 2H to count as two so they can get the positive from dual wield (2 full sets + monster) without having to actually chose dual wield, thus avoiding the negatives.
They aren't asking this to "balance" the game, they are asking this because they want the benefits from a different play-style without the consequences of actually choosing that play-style.
The actual consequence would be a vast increase in the amount of competitve options for any build running at least one two handed weapon, including setups currently only possible on builds running a mix of only dualwield/one hand and shield.
So how exactly would this reduce build diversity? You would somehow have to show how it would turn a large amount of options uncompetitive.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
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Chadak✭✭✭✭✭YesAll I see 'no' people saying is 'because balance', but nobody actually gives credible example one about just what 'balance' is being preserved here.
I'd like some actual examples to consider, because otherwise, I don't believe you and I'm not taking your word for it.
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoNo for the sake of balance and tears, but On the other hand, my ranged magblade would be able to dish out insane damage. If people really want it that badly...Edited by Vapirko on January 5, 2018 8:03AM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesSheezabeast wrote: »No, and this topic is soooo old and silly. If you want 2, use Dw or SnB. Choosing a 2h has its benefits and downsides, as it should.
This isn't a dead horse, and this issue isn't going away. Some classes like Magicka Sorc are forced to use destro staff because we need a spammable. It's ridiculous that we don't have the same variety of gear options that other classes do.
Edited by Emma_Overload on January 5, 2018 8:26AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭YesEmma_Overload wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »No, and this topic is soooo old and silly. If you want 2, use Dw or SnB. Choosing a 2h has its benefits and downsides, as it should.
This isn't a dead horse, and this issue isn't going away. Some classes like Magicka Sorc are forced to use destro staff because we need a spammable. It's ridiculous that we don't have the same variety of gear options that other classes do.
But don't you see? You couldn't possibly need to regen magicka off heavy attacks on a magicka build.
Why oh why would anyone ever want to play a magicka build that isn't glued to destro staff?
I can't think of any reason. It's just unimaginable.
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alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yesi think so, considering magic users cant have to 5 pieces and a monster set as duel wield without giving up on dpsMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike1
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
@pauli133
could you explain your reasoning? the idea of having set balance be independent of weapon class seems reasonable (regardless of whether that's 11 or 12 pieces for everyone to work with), and I don't see how it negatively impacts customization.Seriously, this whole idea never had any traction. Might as well throw out any sort of character customization and go back to Quake 3.
Dual wield has unique consequences (both negative and positive).
By taking away uniqueness and making everything the same (all weapons count as two pieces) you are *reducing* build diversity.
People want 2H to count as two so they can get the positive from dual wield (2 full sets + monster) without having to actually chose dual wield, thus avoiding the negatives.
They aren't asking this to "balance" the game, they are asking this because they want the benefits from a different play-style without the consequences of actually choosing that play-style.
LOL, your argument is so weak and easily picked apart. Sure, DW has some negatives, as do 2H, Destro, Bow...etc. ALL weapon lines have drawbacks due to the uniqueness of their abilities and passives, just as they have strengths. It is expected that these drawbacks tend to cancel each other out.
BUT... the two handed weapons have a whole different disadvantage compared to DW and S&B, a difference that has absolutely NOTHING to do with abilities or passives! The ability to wear two 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster set at the same time is denied to wielders of two handed weapons. This particular drawback has NO equivalent counterpart for DW or S&B wielders. How can anyone claim this is fair?
Furthermore, your assertion that making the proposed change would reduce build diversity is a FLAT OUT LIE. As a destro magicka Sorc, I'm pigeon holed into builds that have a "front bar/back bar" dynamic if I want to run a monster set, such as Spinner + Lich. Wouldn't it be great if I could pair Spinner with Seducer and still wear a monster set? Sadly that's not an real option as long as two handed weapons only count for one gear set bonus. My build diversity is crippled by the two handed weapon I'm forced to carry.
Nobody who cared about fairness in the game would make the arguments you are making. Why do I suspect you are a sword and board DK or a dual wield Templar or Nightblade, or even a stamina Sorc? These are all classes that can get away with DW weapons, of course...hmm...Edited by Emma_Overload on January 5, 2018 8:59AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭YesThen i will have moondäncer 5 pic on frontbar for extra damage and better sustain.PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
327 thoughts on the topic, which is coincidentally also the number of threads on the subject that already exist on the forum and no, most people still don't like the idea, no matter how many times the same question is repeated by the same 5 players over and over again.Thoughts on this topic?
Your comment is totally false. If you look at the poll at the top of THIS VERY THREAD, you will find that roughly 2/3 of 150 people voted YES to making this change.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Insandros✭✭✭✭Let's make Robes count as 2 armor pieces, since pants under it deosn't show, you could be in shorts.0 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoThis game already so overwhelmingly favors staves (which, from a fantasy standpoint, is absurd enough) that given staff wielders ANOTHER advantage would be daft.
When I'm the only person in a 12-man raid not carrying a stick on my back, the pendulum has swung too far to one side.Edited by krachall on January 5, 2018 11:56PM0 -
Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭YesTheShadowScout wrote: »
That depends entirely upon the situation.Sordidfairytale wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »Bows and staves have extra range, 2H has more damage per blow... that balances the lack of a second weapon set piece and trait.
That hardly balances a second weapon set piece and trait...
I am guessing, you never yet PvPed defending a keep, right? Having heavy attacks with -range- is a great thing up on the walls And we all recall when WB spam -ruled- cyrodil... and 2H is still on top of many things despite that having been nerfed (as was quite obviously gonna happen).
But in the end... look at what works, people play that. And considering the -huge- number of magica builds getting their jollies from heavy magica recovery attacks that way, I daresay staves are not in the least lacking compared to S&B and DW...
Bows... well, a case could be made for those. -winces, since main character PvPlays as archer-
Point is, if those were "hardly balanced", they would not be so darn successful. So logic dictates they -are- balanced, for the most part anyhow, and its just the many, many people who use them being envious of the last little advantage the other weapons have...
I take it you're new to making assumptions about people, right? You're so compelling in your statement for the most part, at least I daresay that you are not entirely lacking in a point that you are making with so many rambling run-on statements that don't completely contradict your other statements or maybe you're envious of that last little advantage that doesn't balance your statement.The Vegemite Knight1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoAll I see 'no' people saying is 'because balance', but nobody actually gives credible example one about just what 'balance' is being preserved here.
I'd like some actual examples to consider, because otherwise, I don't believe you and I'm not taking your word for it.
That's because it's so blatantly obvious that it shouldn't need to be explained.
In fact, "blatantly obvious" is an understatement. It's self-evident.
Do you really need someone to give you "examples" of how massively buffing all 2H builds affects the balance of the game?
But, there's no reason it can't happen. We'd just need ZOS to rebalance pretty much every single buff, bonus, passive, and skill in the game. No big deal.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesLiquidPony wrote: »All I see 'no' people saying is 'because balance', but nobody actually gives credible example one about just what 'balance' is being preserved here.
I'd like some actual examples to consider, because otherwise, I don't believe you and I'm not taking your word for it.
That's because it's so blatantly obvious that it shouldn't need to be explained.
In fact, "blatantly obvious" is an understatement. It's self-evident.
Do you really need someone to give you "examples" of how massively buffing all 2H builds affects the balance of the game?
But, there's no reason it can't happen. We'd just need ZOS to rebalance pretty much every single buff, bonus, passive, and skill in the game. No big deal.
Not at all. Currently, people mostly deal with the slot limitations on 2 handed weapons by running front/back bar sets and/or using single pieces worth several bonuses like Master weapons or Domihaus. Master weapons would de facto be turned into 2 piece sets anyway and sets applying their full bonus from having them on one bar only, like Lich, aren't less powerful than other sets. It's just more limiting having to rely on them.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
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