Allene Pellingare: Like a Hot Knife through Butter

Left4Daud · December 2017

So the last time I regularly ran Veteran Wayrest Sewers was before One Tamriel and I don't recall ever having trouble in that dungeon, in fact from memory it seemed like one of the easiest ones. However after getting this to pop for my daily random vet a few times I've noticed I'm either having terrible luck with my PuG composition, or I need a refresher on this fight.

When the heck did this boss start hitting so hard? I mean I'm seeing tanks in my PuGs for this dungeon get completely shredded by the bosses attacks. Healers getting one shot by what looks like a steal tornado or ambush, then the tank getting sliced up by similar attacks. Even trying to kite this boss she snares you and cuts through you like a hot knife through butter. I mean I'm seeing 20k + hits on my death recap that are seemingly coming out of nowhere. Ok so I try to distance myself more from the boss, then it seems I get targeted by ambush for being too far away and I get snared and maybe a DoT put on me? We were running hard mode but I definitely don't remember this boss cutting through a PuG so badly. Maybe it was bad luck or I need to L2P on this boss so any tips or suggestions on her attacks are appreciated.

But yeah even in one run I had a CP20 fake tank spamming bow light attacks the whole dungeon, which was whatever I could tank the earlier bosses attacks just fine. But I called him out when I noticed he wasn't taunting Varaine Pellingare and apparently he was buddies with the healer and they were queuing as fake roles to get faster random normals but accidently queued for vet. So we finally get to Allene and the fake tank is of course getting one shot as soon as the fight starts. After a few wipes his CP300 buddy gets on my case saying "Bro you have like 700cp how come you can't solo this boss?" I told him it's because I'm not built to sustain frequent 20k hits and also deal damage but he wasn't hearing it. So the guy says he will switch characters and "bring someone better" and then shows up on his magsorc. He tells his fake tank buddy and me and the other DPS to stay far away from the boss so he can solo this "joke of a dungeon." Needless to say he didn't last longer than 7 seconds every single attempt he tried to show me how its done. It was funny but I definitely don't remember Allene giving me this much trouble.

Have you had similar experiences in a PuG run for this vet dungeon?

Cage_Lizardman · December 2017

Yeah, she's relatively hard on vet. Not a problem to a s&b heavy armor tank, but try anything less and it's gonna hurt. WS2 is for some reason a lot easier.

Qbiken · December 2017

The difficult part about that fight is to know when she will jump and "backstab" someone. If you block the "backstab" you´ll survive. As DD and Healer you want to sit at around 17k HP in general.

* If you´re a magicka build try to have some sort of shield slotted (Harness magicka or Hardened Ward). This requires you to know when she´ll jump. She will do a small animation (similar to nightblade animation of ambush) before she jumps to a random player. It´s not much time but it will give you some time to react.

* Don´t do fake roles for vet-dungeons unless everyone really know what they´re doing (which didn´t seem to be the case in your story)

code65536 · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

This requires you to know when she´ll jump. She will do a small animation (similar to nightblade animation of ambush) before she jumps to a random player. It´s not much time but it will give you some time to react.

You really don't have any time to react.

You only have 0.7s to spot her Backstab and react to it. That's unreasonably short, esp. if you're in the middle of doing a rotation--don't blink! Most hard-hitting boss abilities that target randomly and ignore taunt give much more warning--Skoria and Nerien'eth's, for example, give players closer to 2s worth of warning and are much more visually obvious, too.

Backstab will hit for over 15K followed by an immediate initial tick of the DoT. A low-CP DPS (one who just hit 160 so without much defensive CP but no longer have the battle leveling health buff) will get one-shot. More CP and a good support tank will help (an Ebon tank who keeps good Maim uptime). Making sure HoTs are always ticking will help prevent death by further ticks of the DoT. But in most cases, the initial hit and initial DoT tick is sufficient to instagib people, so it's really just a matter of running more health or keeping a shield up at all times.

And it's always been this short--it just didn't hit hard enough to matter until the One Tamriel rescale. This and Rilis's Soul Blast in BC1 are the two worst offenders from One Tamriel. That ability is even worse, as it hits for even more, will knock down a player, and with only a 0.1s warning, there is literally no way a human can react to it (maybe ZOS thought we were all bots?). (I survive the vBC1 nonsense by getting used to the cadence of when he does it and putting up a shield ahead of time--and it's utterly ridiculous that I have an easier time avoiding damage in vRoM/vCoS HM than in vBC1 HM.)

@ZOS_Finn I know you're busy with new dungeons and all, but is it really too much to review the unreasonable timings of abilities in tier-I dungeons, specifically Backstab and Soul Blast? I mean, it's been well over a year since 1T, and these issues are still unaddressed. Mechanics are not fun when there is no room for skillful counterplay.

NordSwordnBoard · December 2017

code65536 wrote: »

I survive the vBC1 nonsense by getting used to the cadence of when he does it and putting up a shield ahead of time--

One way is to tell the new players to listen to your call or watch for your shield signage to see when to block/shield for those types of attacks. You get used to Allene's rotation, and anticipate it. Transferring this knowledge to other group members isn't always easy. If you hold block ahead of time to show them, you lose DPS, but hopefully teach them how to survive.

Morvane · December 2017

Left4Daud wrote: »

So the last time I regularly ran Veteran Wayrest Sewers was before One Tamriel and I don't recall ever having trouble in that dungeon, in fact from memory it seemed like one of the easiest ones. However after getting this to pop for my daily random vet a few times I've noticed I'm either having terrible luck with my PuG composition, or I need a refresher on this fight.

When the heck did this boss start hitting so hard? I mean I'm seeing tanks in my PuGs for this dungeon get completely shredded by the bosses attacks. Healers getting one shot by what looks like a steal tornado or ambush, then the tank getting sliced up by similar attacks. Even trying to kite this boss she snares you and cuts through you like a hot knife through butter. I mean I'm seeing 20k + hits on my death recap that are seemingly coming out of nowhere. Ok so I try to distance myself more from the boss, then it seems I get targeted by ambush for being too far away and I get snared and maybe a DoT put on me? We were running hard mode but I definitely don't remember this boss cutting through a PuG so badly. Maybe it was bad luck or I need to L2P on this boss so any tips or suggestions on her attacks are appreciated.

But yeah even in one run I had a CP20 fake tank spamming bow light attacks the whole dungeon, which was whatever I could tank the earlier bosses attacks just fine. But I called him out when I noticed he wasn't taunting Varaine Pellingare and apparently he was buddies with the healer and they were queuing as fake roles to get faster random normals but accidently queued for vet. So we finally get to Allene and the fake tank is of course getting one shot as soon as the fight starts. After a few wipes his CP300 buddy gets on my case saying "Bro you have like 700cp how come you can't solo this boss?" I told him it's because I'm not built to sustain frequent 20k hits and also deal damage but he wasn't hearing it. So the guy says he will switch characters and "bring someone better" and then shows up on his magsorc. He tells his fake tank buddy and me and the other DPS to stay far away from the boss so he can solo this "joke of a dungeon." Needless to say he didn't last longer than 7 seconds every single attempt he tried to show me how its done. It was funny but I definitely don't remember Allene giving me this much trouble.

Have you had similar experiences in a PuG run for this vet dungeon?

before one Tamriel... sounds like "I used computers before PC existence and 1Mb of memory was enough what going on now, guys?"

xRIVALENx · December 2017

If I remember right it is the follow up Steel Tornado type attack after the backstab that usually kills a person. After the backstab hits you roll dodge to avoid it. If the backstab is instantly killing you then you may need more hp and resistance.

DirkRavenclaw · December 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

This requires you to know when she´ll jump. She will do a small animation (similar to nightblade animation of ambush) before she jumps to a random player. It´s not much time but it will give you some time to react.

You really don't have any time to react.

You only have 0.7s to spot her Backstab and react to it. That's unreasonably short, esp. if you're in the middle of doing a rotation--don't blink! Most hard-hitting boss abilities that target randomly and ignore taunt give much more warning--Skoria and Nerien'eth's, for example, give players closer to 2s worth of warning and are much more visually obvious, too.

Backstab will hit for over 15K followed by an immediate initial tick of the DoT. A low-CP DPS (one who just hit 160 so without much defensive CP but no longer have the battle leveling health buff) will get one-shot. More CP and a good support tank will help (an Ebon tank who keeps good Maim uptime). Making sure HoTs are always ticking will help prevent death by further ticks of the DoT. But in most cases, the initial hit and initial DoT tick is sufficient to instagib people, so it's really just a matter of running more health or keeping a shield up at all times.

And it's always been this short--it just didn't hit hard enough to matter until the One Tamriel rescale. This and Rilis's Soul Blast in BC1 are the two worst offenders from One Tamriel. That ability is even worse, as it hits for even more, will knock down a player, and with only a 0.1s warning, there is literally no way a human can react to it (maybe ZOS thought we were all bots?). (I survive the vBC1 nonsense by getting used to the cadence of when he does it and putting up a shield ahead of time--and it's utterly ridiculous that I have an easier time avoiding damage in vRoM/vCoS HM than in vBC1 HM.)

@ZOS_Finn I know you're busy with new dungeons and all, but is it really too much to review the unreasonable timings of abilities in tier-I dungeons, specifically Backstab and Soul Blast? I mean, it's been well over a year since 1T, and these issues are still unaddressed. Mechanics are not fun when there is no room for skillful counterplay.

Hi, you write that a CP160 barely survives. Im my Guilds i learned to do Vet Dungeons from CP300 to CP350 onwards, just saying. My Tank on CP501 does only Vet Dungeons in a Guild made Run not with a PUG because a Tank needs to know the Mechaniks and i dont for all Dungeons. That said, she really is annoying. We tried it with 2, me a Imperial Templar Tank who supports with some Healing and a DPS Healer, pretty brutal, we ended up getting some Help in the End

Magdalina · December 2017

They overbuffed veteran versions of tier I dungeons to make them more challenging or something. By that I mean they added stupid, untauntable, legit hard to avoid, one shots to the last bosses(and only them), such as that spit in Spindle I(which you can at least see coming and dodge if your tank turns her away) or the Wayrest I jump. It's very hard to react to in time and I've been one shot by it at 17k health.

A proper tank will at the very least let you not wipe but that attack ignores taunt anyway. I also don't know if it's fully random or has some criteria for whom it attacks. I remember one run she'd ALWAYS target one poor person but I have no idea why.

And huge LOL at people blaming you for not soloing then insta wiping themselves

code65536 · December 2017

xRIVALENx wrote: »

If I remember right it is the follow up Steel Tornado type attack after the backstab that usually kills a person. After the backstab hits you roll dodge to avoid it. If the backstab is instantly killing you then you may need more hp and resistance.

She does not. Backstab, however, applies a strong bleed to the victim, and that bleed is often what finishes someone off.

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Hi, you write that a CP160 barely survives.

I wrote that a CP160 just gets 1-shot. I was doing vet Wayrest 1 as the pledge recently on an alt account that had just reached CP160, and just the Backstab itself--didn't even need the bleed to tick--was 1-shotting me. For players with higher CP, they will likely survive the initial Backstab, but the subsequent bleed will often kill them immediately after. At max CP, with a supportive tank (Ebon tank maintaining Minor Maim), it's survivable without any special measures.

For an ability with no telegraph/warning, in a tier-1 dungeon, that level of damage is inappropriate.

code65536 · December 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

such as that spit in Spindle I

@Magdalina At least that ability has a reasonable lead time of 1.5s (vs. 0.7s and 0.1s for Wayrest 1 and Banished 1), which makes it possible for a player to react, if they can reliably spot it.

Magdalina · December 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

such as that spit in Spindle I

@Magdalina At least that ability has a reasonable lead time of 1.5s (vs. 0.7s and 0.1s for Wayrest 1 and Banished 1), which makes it possible for a player to react, if they can reliably spot it.

@code65536

Well you can spot it in Spindle because she turns your way right before spitting, so if she's turned away from you she will turn your way to spit and you'll know it's coming. The Pelingaire b...bad woman, iirc, simply jumps at you with no pre-warning or anything of the sorts even if she's turned the other way. I mean I'm usually pretty good at reacting to stuff but legit only way I've been able to avoid hers is to keep shield up at least half the time(minus the time right after her jumps since they seem to be on timer of sorts).

It's also weird damage-wise, I realize it puts a DoT on you, but some times it looks like I simply die instantly to it, legit one-shot before I or healer can react, whereas other times I just drop down to 2-3k and with proper heals live on - that on very same character with very same health during very same fight even. That 2-3k damage difference is critical because she's already hitting at around the health level of an average dd, very few people are running >18k health on a dps.

Left4Daud · December 2017

Interesting, thanks for the responses everyone. I'll try anticipating the backstabs and roll dodging immediately after I get targeted the next time this dungeon shows up in my queue. The actual ambush attack itself wouldn't kill me but like 1 second later my character would just drop dead. Maybe I had some time to react but it felt like whatever was killing me was just coming out of nowhere. Not sure if that 20k hit is from the steel tornado attack, a DoT from the ambush, or some combination of both. I can't remember the attack name exactly but I was seeing something like "Piercing Daggers" or something like that on my death recaps for 20k damage, and I sit at about 17.5k health as a DD.

code65536 · December 2017

Left4Daud wrote: »

"Piercing Daggers" or something like that on my death recaps

IIRC, that's her heavy attack. You should never have to deal with that as a DD, since that should always be going to the tank.

Left4Daud · December 2017

code65536 wrote: »

IIRC, that's her heavy attack. You should never have to deal with that as a DD, since that should always be going to the tank.

@code65536

Hmm maybe I got the name wrong. I know for her heavy attack she does a wind up while twirling the daggers so I have time to block or roll dodge that if tank loses main aggro. But yeah whatever was dropping me dead was coming after backstab so maybe it was the DoT or something.

Left4Daud · December 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

It's also weird damage-wise, I realize it puts a DoT on you, but some times it looks like I simply die instantly to it, legit one-shot before I or healer can react, whereas other times I just drop down to 2-3k and with proper heals live on - that on very same character with very same health during very same fight even. That 2-3k damage difference is critical because she's already hitting at around the health level of an average dd, very few people are running >18k health on a dps.

@Magdalina

This was my experience as well, kind of random. Sometimes it would outright kill me and other times I would be just barely fine - same conditions in the fight like you described.

raj72616a · January 2018

i tank most dungeons in medium armor but for this particular fight i have to switch to heavy armor, plague doctor set, because i never manage to block that backstab, and there are always dps to be rezzed.

this attack need to be either nerfed, or made to follow taunt target.

slickygm · January 2018

I've been tanking it recently on my new magNB tank. I'm CP200 and when I didn't block that attack on HM, this attack and DoT that followed took nearly 70% of my 34k health pool (plague doctor FTW) despite minor maim being applied (it's a PUG DPS/Tank, 23-25k resistances, 5 heavy + 2 light, 1hs+destro with 10k DPS). No wonder low CP DDs are one shotted there.

Mister_DMC · January 2018

Love this boss, regularly get called in to Tank it when the pug tank gets shredded. Even on a fully built argonian Trials tank she hit hard AF.

zaria · January 2018

Never had much problems in vet wayrest 1 might get lucky with tanks but done it a lot. Banished 1 on the other hand I have bad experience with the one shot. And yes it should have an telegraph or be reduced a bit.

JakobESO · January 2018

Tip: She always ports to backstab right after her heavy attack on the tank. So, watch for the heavy attack, then hold block for a few seconds until she ports to backstab. You'll never die again.