Datthaw wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

GoldenGraham wrote: »

Hey just posted this clip last week about what I'm running been doing me pretty well check it out if you have time might be posting follow up pvp highlights to it this week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7t6xwn70WE&t=18s

U have to call this build "snared and dead". Problem with warmaiden - it touches only your damage not healing. Problem with clever - it works only if u already in fight, no proc from stealth after its rework in this or previous patch can't remember.
So, not the best choice of sets. Also... no idea how u hope to sustain vs good player, any chance. So, here improved name for it "Dead, especially when snared". My apologizes for the irony

Lol snares, SNARES EVERYWHERE! Have me running mistform and escapist poisons. ***

Mistform disable magicka regen. Its usefull on templar, who have no any ways to escape, but on manablade...just analyze man how viable it is, also think, what another skill u will sacrifise to have last one on your bar and to be competitive.
Escapist poisons - grants u Unstoppable, which prevents hard CC - Stun, but not snares or roots.
Dead, especially when snared.

Datthaw wrote: »

@diplomatt Yeah it disables regen but is that worse than being dead? What you want me to run that bs.meta 2h with fm? Other than that your option is retreating maneuver? Immov pots and escapist poisons that don't remove the snares that actually kill you?

You say analyze how viable it is ok our options
Cloak-everything breaks it good luck
Immov pots- snares still apply, gl cloaking out with that movement speed
Escapist poisons- same thing goo luck cloaking out
Image-viable to an extent when not bugged as as hell
Forward momentum-viable if you want to run a two hand build but it seems kinda niche and not exactly my style
Retreating maneuver- imo better than forward momen tum with a dw build and concealed

And then mistform, reliable major exp giving mistform. Does it stop mag regenand heals? Yes. However if used properly you can get a heal out of stacking over ward due to timer lengths, not the full heal but a heal. The mag regen you lose? Siphon or land a heavy attack or pop a pot of out it. But let's be honest. You go into mistform with no mag and think the no mag regen kills you? Nah buddy you were already dead, mistform just prolonged your death

I been playing magblade for 3 years solo. The only time i used mist form is when infernal guardian broke cloak. I do Just fine without mist form or with no snare immunity at all for that matter. I make sure i play where there is a lot of line of sight. If there is no los i will not fight there. I think a lot of magblade use mist form because they play their magblade like a off-tank and get too committed to fighting in melee range. If you combine cloak with los, fear and shade it becomes really strong it just requires more planning. If you are using a destro build its so easy to disengage from a fight if you are playing to the destro staff strengths. I don't use mist mostly because it stops all my hots that i have layered and makes me rely only on healing ward for healing. Why would i use mist form when i can just teleport out of range behind los and then cloak away while my health is going back to 100% without even wasting magicka on healing ward

Waffennacht wrote: »

@zParallaxz what stats would you be going for?

On a bad theory craft day should be able to easily obtain 45k+ mag, 3.5k spell damage, and 1800 regen.

Also heavy armor never have and never will work on any mag class but magdk or magtemplar. Magblades are the easiest class beside wardens that can stack regen and max mag. I literally scratch my head when I see magblades promote heavy armour and using healing ward. I mean yeah you’ll have sub par to decent tankieness, but you will have NO DAMAGE against decent to good skilled players.

Datthaw wrote: »

But let's be honest. You go into mistform with no mag and think the no mag regen kills you? Nah buddy you were already dead, mistform just prolonged your death

Thats what i'm saying about, u are not competitive with this.
It's not an good option, just surrogate because of no options on mana nb vs good player, which will not give u showed in this thread build.
He have no sustain, he have no enouch healing.
On video he kills pugs without experience, it doesn't work vs good player.
And your agruments in application to it doesn't make it viable, but the oppozite.

Manablade is my favourite pvp character, i played in different builds from time to time during 3 years, learned it to know all this. And, thats my crytics to build. Also, I don't like to play it now, because u have only 3 choices:
1. Line of site, hoping that cloak and shade will work proper(ofc no but hope is important...) and do the best when snared as *** (in such variant u need very nice damage+sustain not as here above)
2. 2hander melee (I feel comfortable with it but it provide not enouch even very nice timed damage as for risky melee vs magesorcs, both wardens, both templars, good magedks, and no matter who outnumbering u)
3. mistform or efficient purge, both equally defensive and very expensive surrogats which mostly just give u only more time before death. With my ping I hate this variant.
4.
I don't like all 3, and hope Zenimax will rework mechanizm of snares, or give some normal option for nightblade to counter these ***.
Its a gigantic black hole in manablade's design now (same as in staminadk's or stamblade's in heavy)

Offtopic:
Also, rework of purges, its too big preference in todays gameplay for templars (i have and play all classes except stamsorc to objectively compare from someone else's but my own on them experience).
Nerfing cost poisons, which are toxic *** in general for fight system, rework of Duroc's set mechanic's and many more but this all better not here.

Datthaw wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

But let's be honest. You go into mistform with no mag and think the no mag regen kills you? Nah buddy you were already dead, mistform just prolonged your death

Thats what i'm saying about, u are not competitive with this.
It's not an good option, just surrogate because of no options on mana nb vs good player, which will not give u showed in this thread build.
He have no sustain, he have no enouch healing.
On video he kills pugs without experience, it doesn't work vs good player.
And your agruments in application to it doesn't make it viable, but the oppozite.

Manablade is my favourite pvp character, i played in different builds from time to time during 3 years, learned it to know all this. And, thats my crytics to build. Also, I don't like to play it now, because u have only 3 choices:
1. Line of site, hoping that cloak and shade will work proper(ofc no but hope is important...) and do the best when snared as *** (in such variant u need very nice damage+sustain not as here above)
2. 2hander melee (I feel comfortable with it but it provide not enouch even very nice timed damage as for risky melee vs magesorcs, both wardens, both templars, good magedks, and no matter who outnumbering u)
3. mistform or efficient purge, both equally defensive and very expensive surrogats which mostly just give u only more time before death. With my ping I hate this variant.
4.
I don't like all 3, and hope Zenimax will rework mechanizm of snares, or give some normal option for nightblade to counter these ***.
Its a gigantic black hole in manablade's design now (same as in staminadk's or stamblade's in heavy)

Offtopic:
Also, rework of purges, its too big preference in todays gameplay for templars (i have and play all classes except stamsorc to objectively compare from someone else's but my own on them experience).
Nerfing cost poisons, which are toxic *** in general for fight system, rework of Duroc's set mechanic's and many more but this all better not here.

That's because you don't use mistform properly it's a positioning tool to be broke then second you reach los or break the snare with a barswap some people aren't going to like this skill probably threw it on their bar a few times and passed it up because they used it as the oh god I'm about to die save skill (which it's not). It's a perfectly valid skill and just because it doesn't fit your playstyle does not in any way make it "unviable"

You keep stressing sustain as a problem also. Well i really don't think I'm losing much sustain for the 3k mag I didn't regen to get into a better position.

And the one thing that you just keep ignoring is retreating maneuver. For meele magblade with concealed I can't think of a better skill. screw forward momentum and this streamer bis build.

Are you seriously saying forward momentum is not good on a melee mageblade?? It's dirt cheap with unchained and easily sustainable even with a low stam pool.

Come on, retreating maneuver on a (smallscale/solo) mageblade?? Come on...

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

But let's be honest. You go into mistform with no mag and think the no mag regen kills you? Nah buddy you were already dead, mistform just prolonged your death

Thats what i'm saying about, u are not competitive with this.
It's not an good option, just surrogate because of no options on mana nb vs good player, which will not give u showed in this thread build.
He have no sustain, he have no enouch healing.
On video he kills pugs without experience, it doesn't work vs good player.
And your agruments in application to it doesn't make it viable, but the oppozite.

Manablade is my favourite pvp character, i played in different builds from time to time during 3 years, learned it to know all this. And, thats my crytics to build. Also, I don't like to play it now, because u have only 3 choices:
1. Line of site, hoping that cloak and shade will work proper(ofc no but hope is important...) and do the best when snared as *** (in such variant u need very nice damage+sustain not as here above)
2. 2hander melee (I feel comfortable with it but it provide not enouch even very nice timed damage as for risky melee vs magesorcs, both wardens, both templars, good magedks, and no matter who outnumbering u)
3. mistform or efficient purge, both equally defensive and very expensive surrogats which mostly just give u only more time before death. With my ping I hate this variant.
4.
I don't like all 3, and hope Zenimax will rework mechanizm of snares, or give some normal option for nightblade to counter these ***.
Its a gigantic black hole in manablade's design now (same as in staminadk's or stamblade's in heavy)

Offtopic:
Also, rework of purges, its too big preference in todays gameplay for templars (i have and play all classes except stamsorc to objectively compare from someone else's but my own on them experience).
Nerfing cost poisons, which are toxic *** in general for fight system, rework of Duroc's set mechanic's and many more but this all better not here.

That's because you don't use mistform properly it's a positioning tool to be broke then second you reach los or break the snare with a barswap some people aren't going to like this skill probably threw it on their bar a few times and passed it up because they used it as the oh god I'm about to die save skill (which it's not). It's a perfectly valid skill and just because it doesn't fit your playstyle does not in any way make it "unviable"

You keep stressing sustain as a problem also. Well i really don't think I'm losing much sustain for the 3k mag I didn't regen to get into a better position.

And the one thing that you just keep ignoring is retreating maneuver. For meele magblade with concealed I can't think of a better skill. screw forward momentum and this streamer bis build.

Are you seriously saying forward momentum is not good on a melee mageblade?? It's dirt cheap with unchained and easily sustainable even with a low stam pool.

Come on, retreating maneuver on a (smallscale/solo) mageblade?? Come on...

I think we should leave this Datthaw with his theories alone. Retreating maneur was an execute for me:D

How I use mist form on magicka nightblade:

Activate mist form -- while in mist form activate cloak -- dodge roll out of mist form and you will go right into cloak

This works surprising well in escaping. Everyone has their own methods but personally I'm not practiced enough with shade.

thankyourat wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

@diplomatt Yeah it disables regen but is that worse than being dead? What you want me to run that bs.meta 2h with fm? Other than that your option is retreating maneuver? Immov pots and escapist poisons that don't remove the snares that actually kill you?

You say analyze how viable it is ok our options
Cloak-everything breaks it good luck
Immov pots- snares still apply, gl cloaking out with that movement speed
Escapist poisons- same thing goo luck cloaking out
Image-viable to an extent when not bugged as as hell
Forward momentum-viable if you want to run a two hand build but it seems kinda niche and not exactly my style
Retreating maneuver- imo better than forward momen tum with a dw build and concealed

And then mistform, reliable major exp giving mistform. Does it stop mag regenand heals? Yes. However if used properly you can get a heal out of stacking over ward due to timer lengths, not the full heal but a heal. The mag regen you lose? Siphon or land a heavy attack or pop a pot of out it. But let's be honest. You go into mistform with no mag and think the no mag regen kills you? Nah buddy you were already dead, mistform just prolonged your death

I been playing magblade for 3 years solo. The only time i used mist form is when infernal guardian broke cloak. I do Just fine without mist form or with no snare immunity at all for that matter. I make sure i play where there is a lot of line of sight. If there is no los i will not fight there. I think a lot of magblade use mist form because they play their magblade like a off-tank and get too committed to fighting in melee range. If you combine cloak with los, fear and shade it becomes really strong it just requires more planning. If you are using a destro build its so easy to disengage from a fight if you are playing to the destro staff strengths. I don't use mist mostly because it stops all my hots that i have layered and makes me rely only on healing ward for healing. Why would i use mist form when i can just teleport out of range behind los and then cloak away while my health is going back to 100% without even wasting magicka on healing ward

Idk. I swear by elusive mist on mageblade but I realize my take isn't popular because I invest a lot into wellfitted and the ability to dodge reliably on a mag character.

A) elusive mist can be cancelled out of. it's better -- more cost effective -- to use mist against big ults than to spam shields, or cloak? Lol C) it's still major expedition. D) I run 1600 Stam Regen on my mageblade and with healing ward and annulment over top of mist there's little I can't withstand and can be assured my stamina will be 100% when I return from mist. E) combined with dodge roll, a good block, and cloak mist makes you impervious to threats yet keeps you close to the fight.

I would argue that proper use of shade and cloak alleviates the necessity of mist in most cases but sometimes you don't want such an extreme disengage (as that of shade provides I mean). Elusive mist is for me about frustrating incoming offense, including CC's, rather than always completely disengaging. FM does literally one thing and costs a vital off stat. Sorry I'll pass.

ETA: the advantage of using a destro staff is ranged pressure. But it's also a huge defense. Snares and gap closers will nullify both advantages eventually. I don't know a good reason to allow that unless you use shade and don't mind parking in stealth while the snare runs out.

kaithuzar wrote: »

I think all of the above, mist form, retreating maneuvers, & forward momentum can all be viable & what's best is based on playstyle largely.
I've been feeling more & more like if you want to play as a vampire you should be a dunmer though as fire damage from magdk & even magplar is very prevalent in Cyro on pc na

IMO the fire resist combined with extra stam, is going to allow me to swap out 1pirate, 1chudan for grothdar & go with a heavier offense
Especially since I still have shadow passives, blessing of restoration, & wizards riposte

IMO riposte really shines during a 1vx because fear only hits 2 targets & shade isn't even worth slotting until they fix it.
I prefer to have minor maim on all 3 or 4 guys I'm fighting.

I've always played a melee magblade except for the past 6 months, only going destro when I would pve, but these last few months I use destro because of the offensive pressure not because I need to be ranged.
Sure ranged provides a bit of an advantage but I don't "need it".
My playstyle is that if you want to fight up close I'm not going to run away, I'll chase you down & block cast sap, or continue my rotation in your face!

kaithuzar wrote: »

I will say that forward momentum or rapid maneuvers are only viable if you spec cp into the unchained passive unless you're building for high stam sustain as well.
If a big ult is coming at me, doesn't block reduce the damage more than mist form?
The biggest thing mist form gives is the speed combined with damage reduction but the loss of being able to heal could be detrimental.
I prefer to have the same build for everything 1v1 or 1vx/openworld, bg's etc...
I wouldn't do serious pve trials or anything but 95% of the game I like to handle without swapping gear or skills.

Blocking soul assault or eye of the storm or northern storm or swarm or standard or Nova or negate isn't viable. That is for leap and dawnbreaker, somewhat for incap too. But what block applies to so does mist. Mist applies to every ult in the game.

I have a terrible memory but I really wanna know if any of the magblades that comment here are pc na so we can go at it a few times & discuss in game/teamspeak

kaithuzar wrote: »

I'll chase you down & block cast sap, or continue my rotation in your face!

I'm not following you here. Why would you block cast sap against a melee. You are going to be out of stamina quick, and they still will have only taken a few sap essense hits in the meantime... which most stamina builds can easily outheal.