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Finally Encountered the Infamous Build
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Cheeseblade ?! You cut me deep brah ...
@Rohamad_Ali I apologize sincere comrade. It’s just that they excel at so many different things, and have so many benefits (magicka or stamina variations) — it’s hard to not classify the class as cheesy. If DK’s could do a quarter of what NB’s could, then I’d satisfied. Honestly. I would. But they can’t. When I play a NB, the AP just flows like rivers. Seriously. I get so much AP as a Nightblade, and I don’t even have to exhaust hardly any effort at all. It’s easier than playing a MagSorc, and that’s real talk. Why? Because ZOS thought it was intelligent to give a class a ton of different tools to kill someone with. Lol. Inb4 nb mains say, “It’s an assassin class, what do you expect?” And while that logic may be true, there is no logical reason for that to be the case and then have little to no drawbacks then. People claim NB’s are squishy, but I’ve yet to find that to be the case. In fact, I think I have better sustain and survivability on my Cheeseblade than my DK. How? I have no idea. But, that’s the way it is.4 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also , wasn't it a MagDK that one the latest dueling tournament that Legend hosted recently or was that some other class ? Who was in the winner of that tournament.. @NightbladeMechanics ?
Edit : I looked it up an it was .
1st place - Passifest
snb/destro magicka DK
Looking back at the brackets, all of Passifest's opponents throughout the tournament finished in the top 6. He had no easy matches, yet he never lost one. A well-deserved victory!
That's from the latest tournament thread December .Edited by Rohamad_Ali on December 29, 2017 4:42PM3 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Cheeseblade ?! You cut me deep brah ...
@Rohamad_Ali I apologize sincere comrade. It’s just that they excel at so many different things, and have so many benefits (magicka or stamina variations) — it’s hard to not classify the class as cheesy. If DK’s could do a quarter of what NB’s could, then I’d satisfied. Honestly. I would. But they can’t. When I play a NB, the AP just flows like rivers. Seriously. I get so much AP as a Nightblade, and I don’t even have to exhaust hardly any effort at all. It’s easier than playing a MagSorc, and that’s real talk. Why? Because ZOS thought it was intelligent to give a class a ton of different tools to kill someone with. Lol. Inb4 nb mains say, “It’s an assassin class, what do you expect?” And while that logic may be true, there is no logical reason for that to be the case and then have little to no drawbacks then. People claim NB’s are squishy, but I’ve yet to find that to be the case. In fact, I think I have better sustain and survivability on my Cheeseblade than my DK. How? I have no idea. But, that’s the way it is.
I am not a utensil for making snacks with wine ! But apologie accepted old friend .
. You have a unique view on class balance and while we may not agree , I can understand why you may see things in this light . Magblade has many escapes and interupts and that can be frustrating for one who is not built for cc breaks . On my side of the coin , good DK's are very tough when built to breakfree of cc and return their own cc counters . Their resource returns on ults is still their primary strength imo and having good survivability to keep pounding out leaps or Dawnbreakers makes a NIGHTBLADE , not cheese knife , have to either build for big dps or tanky too in order to last the fight . If built for dps a DK can take advantage of the squishyness of the NB most often and if tanky NB then it's a resource battle with slow dps for NB an DK has better class resource returns . I do not see DK at the disadvantage that you do and I do play both . Edited by Rohamad_Ali on December 29, 2017 4:36PM3 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Even you admitted in your OP in this thread that you are hearing more and more people play DK so clearly it isn't "dead". And if DKs are either all really good or all really bad as you say then DK is an extremely powerful class that you just need to learn to play correctly to excel with. There doesn't need to be a middle ground. The middle ground doesn't exsist because you are either a good player or a bad player. Mediocre players are bad players in ESO PvP.
Maybe PvP in this game is more balanced than you originally thought.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Even you admitted in your OP in this thread that you are hearing more and more people play DK so clearly it isn't "dead". And if DKs are either all really good or all really bad as you say then DK is an extremely powerful class that you just need to learn to play correctly to excel with. There doesn't need to be a middle ground. The middle ground doesn't exsist because you are either a good player or a bad player. Mediocre players are bad players in ESO PvP.
Maybe PvP in this game is more balanced than you originally thought.
As a person who has played this game since beta, and was originally s full-time PvP’er that turned to PvE over time? No. I must respectfully disagree. PvP in ESO has gotten more and more unbalanced by the patch, and at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the developing meta currently, and previous metas. Plus the new elements being introduced like resource poisons and vitality potions. Sets like Troll King and Earth Gore. N’ah bruh. Things are far from balanced. I’d rather play in the meta of Meteors being ping-ponged around by DK’s wings, and Streak spamming Sorcs any day of the week compared to this current meta.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again it was right when the Imperial City DLC was introduced and VR16/CP160 that PvP died. It was at that point that things took a turn for the worst regarding ESO’s PvP. Ironically enough, that was also when cross-faction dealings became more widespread, and emp-sharing made its big entrance all over PS4-NA. I’ll never forget the day of standing around in Rawlkha (was the hang out spot back then), and hearing people in Area Chat selling emperorship like it was kutas or something.5 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
CE build.1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Even you admitted in your OP in this thread that you are hearing more and more people play DK so clearly it isn't "dead". And if DKs are either all really good or all really bad as you say then DK is an extremely powerful class that you just need to learn to play correctly to excel with. There doesn't need to be a middle ground. The middle ground doesn't exsist because you are either a good player or a bad player. Mediocre players are bad players in ESO PvP.
Maybe PvP in this game is more balanced than you originally thought.
As a person who has played this game since beta, and was originally s full-time PvP’er that turned to PvE over time? No. I must respectfully disagree. PvP in ESO has gotten more and more unbalanced by the patch, and at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the developing meta currently, and previous metas. Plus the new elements being introduced like resource poisons and vitality potions. Sets like Troll King and Earth Gore. N’ah bruh. Things are far from balanced. I’d rather play in the meta of Meteors being ping-ponged around by DK’s wings, and Streak spamming Sorcs any day of the week compared to this current meta.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again it was right when the Imperial City DLC was introduced and VR16/CP160 that PvP died. It was at that point that things took a turn for the worst regarding ESO’s PvP. Ironically enough, that was also when cross-faction dealings became more widespread, and emp-sharing made its big entrance all over PS4-NA. I’ll never forget the day of standing around in Rawlkha (was the hang out spot back then), and hearing people in Area Chat selling emperorship like it was kutas or something.
We are going to have to agree to disagree then. I feel that every single class has ways to excel in PvP and even if it means that different classes have different metas that people follow, as long as every class can be effective at something, to me, that's balance. And while you previously felt that DKs were dead and not effective your encounter with this player who wiped your crew is evidence that that is simply not the case. We have some philosophical differences about what balance is that probably are not going to be resolved arguing over a message board but I'm actually ok for the most part with how PvP is balanced at the moment. yeah are there things I would change? Sure there always is but I just don't think it's in that bad of a spot right now.2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find it amusing that everyone is theorycrafting builds in here that could potentially do what OP described but every suggestion is different. So there are what? 5 different potentially game breaking stam DK combinations? Really?
Maybe 7th, maybe truth set, maybe fortified brass, maybe blessed armor (LOL) maybe all of them at once. The problem with all the theorycrafting is that if you want to watch someone running any of these combinations, there are plenty of gameplay videos available on youtube. No video that actually lists the gear used can do what OP described unless they are fighting 10lbs of potatoes.
So you are left with three options:- Assume OP and his crew were total potatoes and, if that is the case, then any well built build on a skilled player should wreck them, not just this one.
- Pretend there is some magical combination of sets out there that turn you into a god, you just haven't found them yet because if you did, then you would be running them too, the secret would get out, and there would be an army of unkillable DKs in cyrodiil.
- Admit that there is a TON of cheating in this game. Not just CE but ways to bug out sets so you can get multiple 5pc bonuses). Some of the most notorious unkillable DK's were just running bugs and exploits (like histbug before it was fixed).
The fact that all of the armchair theorycrafters aren't running out to farm whatever gear they claim can do this so they can wear it and be immortal themselves is very telling. Seriously. If you think this is possible without CE or other exploits, then put your gold where your mouth is and go craft it, and post a video of you soloing a zerg at primetime. I'm waiting.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on December 29, 2017 5:40PM13 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You can pretend to be experienced, but an experienced player knows that light AM+damage set is more sustain and damage than your heavy spec3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Spell Wall is so much cheaper though and in most cases, it also helps with your offense.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Even you admitted in your OP in this thread that you are hearing more and more people play DK so clearly it isn't "dead". And if DKs are either all really good or all really bad as you say then DK is an extremely powerful class that you just need to learn to play correctly to excel with. There doesn't need to be a middle ground. The middle ground doesn't exsist because you are either a good player or a bad player. Mediocre players are bad players in ESO PvP.
Maybe PvP in this game is more balanced than you originally thought.
As a person who has played this game since beta, and was originally s full-time PvP’er that turned to PvE over time? No. I must respectfully disagree. PvP in ESO has gotten more and more unbalanced by the patch, and at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the developing meta currently, and previous metas. Plus the new elements being introduced like resource poisons and vitality potions. Sets like Troll King and Earth Gore. N’ah bruh. Things are far from balanced. I’d rather play in the meta of Meteors being ping-ponged around by DK’s wings, and Streak spamming Sorcs any day of the week compared to this current meta.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again it was right when the Imperial City DLC was introduced and VR16/CP160 that PvP died. It was at that point that things took a turn for the worst regarding ESO’s PvP. Ironically enough, that was also when cross-faction dealings became more widespread, and emp-sharing made its big entrance all over PS4-NA. I’ll never forget the day of standing around in Rawlkha (was the hang out spot back then), and hearing people in Area Chat selling emperorship like it was kutas or something.
You said yourself it's been a while since you've PvP'ed regularly. Same with me. I just started PvP'ing again after barely doing it since Morrowind and a lot has changed since then. The way I see it is I got two choices, either I take my lumps and L2P or I can complain about balance and whatnot and stay a scrub. I knew before I started PvP'ing again that I wasn't just going to pick up where I left off though, because I was never an elite PvP'er. Seems to me you could benefit from approach like mine.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA3 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
your passion and earnest nature are what makes your threads so enjoyable...
after enough years roaming around the real world and being exposed to some of the harsher realities of life - the perspective I have on participating in a video game makes eso, and to maybe even a larger extent the forums - a source of fun and enjoyment for me...
have a great day @Ch4mpTW ...hope to see you out in ps4/na/Vivec regardless of which banner you may fight for...
p.s. - if i'm fighting and suddenly lose all my stamina and magicka - i'm blaming you and your crew PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place5 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I find it amusing that everyone is theorycrafting builds in here that could potentially do what OP described but every suggestion is different. So there are what? 5 different potentially game breaking stam DK combinations? Really?
Maybe 7th, maybe truth set, maybe fortified brass, maybe blessed armor (LOL) maybe all of them at once. The problem with all the theorycrafting is that if you want to watch someone running any of these combinations, there are plenty of gameplay videos available on youtube. No video that actually lists the gear used can do what OP described unless they are fighting 10lbs of potatoes.
So you are left with three options:- Assume OP and his crew were total potatoes and, if that is the case, then any well built build on a skilled player should wreck them, not just this one.
- Pretend there is some magical combination of sets out there that turn you into a god, you just haven't found them yet because if you did, then you would be running them too, the secret would get out, and there would be an army of unkillable DKs in cyrodiil.
- Admit that there is a TON of cheating in this game. Not just CE but ways to bug out sets so you can get multiple 5pc bonuses). Some of the most notorious unkillable DK's were just running bugs and exploits (like histbug before it was fixed).
The fact that all of the armchair theorycrafters aren't running out to farm whatever gear they claim can do this so they can wear it and be immortal themselves is very telling. Seriously. If you think this is possible without CE or other exploits, then put your gold where your mouth is and go craft it, and post a video of you soloing a zerg at primetime. I'm waiting.
I tend to agree. I’ve seen these guys in action before. It seems there’s something more in play.
I’m a Stam DK, and you have to make some choices on defensive builds, recovery and damage.
I just don’t buy that they all run heavy armor with block glyphs but yet insta-kill people.
5 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I find it amusing that everyone is theorycrafting builds in here that could potentially do what OP described but every suggestion is different. So there are what? 5 different potentially game breaking stam DK combinations? Really?
Maybe 7th, maybe truth set, maybe fortified brass, maybe blessed armor (LOL) maybe all of them at once. The problem with all the theorycrafting is that if you want to watch someone running any of these combinations, there are plenty of gameplay videos available on youtube. No video that actually lists the gear used can do what OP described unless they are fighting 10lbs of potatoes.
So you are left with three options:- Assume OP and his crew were total potatoes and, if that is the case, then any well built build on a skilled player should wreck them, not just this one.
- Pretend there is some magical combination of sets out there that turn you into a god, you just haven't found them yet because if you did, then you would be running them too, the secret would get out, and there would be an army of unkillable DKs in cyrodiil.
- Admit that there is a TON of cheating in this game. Not just CE but ways to bug out sets so you can get multiple 5pc bonuses). Some of the most notorious unkillable DK's were just running bugs and exploits (like histbug before it was fixed).
The fact that all of the armchair theorycrafters aren't running out to farm whatever gear they claim can do this so they can wear it and be immortal themselves is very telling. Seriously. If you think this is possible without CE or other exploits, then put your gold where your mouth is and go craft it, and post a video of you soloing a zerg at primetime. I'm waiting.
Been there done that. It's super easy to strap on 7th + Ravager on my stamden and wipe out 10 potatoes.
I find it boring tho.
Looking at champ's build, and if his buds we're equally equipped, they'll get destroyed by META builds.4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Until just a few seconds, I had heard of the build that everyone is talking about in which people run 2H and S&B while being completely immune to CC and damage for the most part. And is capable of dishing out skyhigh damage. I thought this was just a rumor, as Morrowind nerfed a lot of things. And how supposedly healing was nerfed in PvP. Boy oh boy was I mistaken...
This joker was at 30k HP, ran 2H and S&B, absorbed the damage of no lie 10 people wailing on him (colonels and above), and managed to kill us all no problem. He generated ultimate like nothing I have ever seen, and seemingly appeared to have no problems with sustain. Even though everyone is running resource poisons. It was a StamDK we were fighting by the way, and no. He wasn’t emperor. And no, we could barely CC him outside of an occasional Fossilize (which wasn’t that effective).
What type of super build is this, and why is it growing that popular all of a sudden? I usually duel in Auridon, and had heard of a growing trend in either StamDK’s or StamWardens with ridiculous sustain, damage, and healing. And are completely immune somewhat to resource poisons.
And before someone asks, no. They weren’t wearing Troll King. They were wearing Blood Spawn. Although, I have been noticing that Troll King’s usage has spiked ridiculously these past few weeks for whatever the reason in both duels and Cyrodiil.
Didn't you make a thread like a month ago claiming that DK was by far the worst class for PvP and was completely dead?
Edit: I looked back at the thread and you and I had an argument where you claimed that there were no longer any DKs running around Cyrodiil becsuse they are they are terrible compared to Nightblades and other classes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379466/does-zos-actually-know-what-class-balance-is/p1
Come on Ch4mp, you just gonna ignore me like this???? Harsh.
I didn’t even notice that comment, to be honest. But, I still stick by my statement that I made in that thread. DK’s in my opinion are the worst class for PvP. Especially when compared to the others. When you have the benefits of running: A Sorc, Templar, Cheeseblade, or Warden — why else run a DK? Unless if you’re a true fan of the class (like me for example), there’s absolutely no logical reason to run a DK.
And as for the class being dead? I stick by that remark as well. DK’s are by far the least encountered class for myself and for those that I play with. Most are Nightblades (still). Then Templars, Sorcs, and Wardens in that order. With DK’s being of course in last. And even then with the DK’s I encounter, they fall into 1 of 2 categories. They’re either incredibly easy to defeat, and hardly worth an ultimate. Or, they are damn near juggernauts with insane “skill” or cheese or whatever it is you all on these forums would classify it as. And that’s it. There is no middle grounds. There doesn’t exist a so-so DK on PS4-NA Vivec. It’s either you get stomped, or you do the stomping. The days of being a so-so/moderately-skilled DK have long disappeared when Morrowind was ushered in.
Normally I don't agree with ZoS's positions, but I remember a discussion on ESO Live about class balance once where they remarked that players are likely to underestimate/understate their mains and overestimate/overstate the other classes and I think they are right.
I know the weaknesses on my magplar inside and out and every one of those weaknesses annoys the crap out of me, especially when one get me killed. Do I know its strengths, yeah but meh. We remember our failures and losses much more than our successes. So we accentuate the weaknesses/frustrations of our classes and the strengths of the other classes.
I mean, you're only going to remember the time the NB cloaked and got away, not the time she cloaked and got detected and killed.
I do think DKs were terrible after the Imperial City patch and for too long thereafter. Now? They are a very strong 1v1 class (if built effectively), that have a lot going for them. I'm a bit confused what constitutes a "cheese"? What exactly make a DK running Burning Spellweave and Impregnable "cheese"? Because those are standard sets that have been around for a long time and make a DK quite a potent opponent.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.5 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭On the subject of DK's being dead....
I have problems with DK's dk dueling builds on my mageblade. (Frankly, I have problems with all dualing builds because my build is set up for group play and lacks the proper burst and CC to fight dueling builds and has too much invested in both AOE's and group support skills.) That being said, DK's are particularly problematic because I am a ranged and so the reflect is an issue.
I will note, however, that basically every thing a DK did that made it hard for me, and my build, to deal with Wardens now do better from reflects to CC's to tankyness. I don't think this is a DK problem so much as a Warden issue. In making a class that can do everything ZOS clearly made a PVP jugernaught. I think, without question, Warden appears to be the strongest PVP class to me. It seems to have DK's reflect, Sorcs CC, Sorcs delayed burst damage, DK's tankyness, DK's self buffs, two good ultimate's (my NB has zero and perhaps ZOS should address that), more heals than templar or NB ever dreamed of, and NB quality sustain. I'm not sure why they left out cloak and mages wrath but they did compensate with an undogeable, unreflectable, spamable I guess.
In short, the biggest problem I think for DK's in PVP right now is not that they can't do anything but rather that Warden does the most important things that they do and is overall much stronger. For a long time in PVE mNB was just a bad sorc. I feel like in PVP DK is just a bad Warden right now. The more wardens I fight the more I think man I should buy Morrowind and roll that before they balance it.
I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After doing some digging around further into the matter, it turns out that he was indeed running Cheat Engine. One of his buddies was friends with a friend of mine, and they just so happened to also be guildies. And after a bit of conversing, it was revealed that this particular individual is in fact running Cheat Engine. And has been for quite some time. According to this player’s boasting, he can supposedly have infinite ultimates if he wanted to. And could make it so that he not take a single bit of damage. How true the last part is, I don’t know. But, I do know that the ultimate thing is certainly a possibly. Anyone remember a particularly popularly PvP’er on PC that “exposed” things via casting “infinite Meteors”? Yeah. That came to mind too. Especially after hearing this individual boast that, “We all run CE in the top of the top. How else do you think we are able to smash trashy AD players, and accumulate so much notoriety for being good players?”
This on PS4-NA, by the way. And the main server where all of these things transpire 9x out of 10 is Vivec... So now not only are elitist scumbags who run around having their hands into everything due to them turning Cyrodiil into a political game, but now a lot of these top players on console are in fact running Cheat Engine and or other exploits. Thanks ZOS. Seriously. Thanks. Right when I was starting to really get into PvP once again, and finally start trying to integrate myself into the PvP community once more. I hear this. Thanks.
I suppose now the rumors are certainly true. PvP in ESO is officially dead, and will remain only a toxic wasteland of egotistical and dishonest players. Sure there are good-hearted and clean players, but they will never be at the top of the top like in the past. Nor be the vast majority on the leaderboards. And you know why? Because there’s too much: Politics, corruption, and dishonesty occurring. And the investigations by ZOS, let alone punishments are far too lenient. What good is the point of permanent bans either, unless if you’re going to IP or console ban these players? Going into 2018 in a few days, and we don’t even have an ignore feature on console. Only block people’s profiles. And even then, it doesn’t stop blocker players from being able to whisper you, and or you reading their messages in chat.Edited by Ch4mpTW on December 29, 2017 8:34PM5 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭After doing some digging around further into the matter, it turns out that he was indeed running Cheat Engine. One of his buddies was friends with a friend of mine, and they just so happened to also be guildies. And after a bit of conversing, it was revealed that this particular individual is in fact running Cheat Engine. And has been for quite some time. According to this player’s boasting, he can supposedly have infinite ultimates if he wanted to. And could make it so that he not take a single bit of damage. How true the last part is, I don’t know. But, I do know that the ultimate thing is certainly a possibly. Anyone remember a particularly popularly PvP’er on PC that “exposed” things via casting “infinite Meteors”? Yeah. That came to mind too. Especially after hearing this individual boast that, “We all run CE in the top of the top. How else do you think we are able to smash trashy AD players, and accumulate so much notoriety for being good players?”
This on PS4-NA, by the way. And the main server where all of these things transpire 9x out of 10 is Vivec... So now not only are elitist scumbags who run around having their hands into everything due to them turning Cyrodiil into a political game, but now a lot of these top players on console are in fact running Cheat Engine and or other exploits. Thanks ZOS. Seriously. Thanks. Right when I was starting to really get into PvP once again, and finally start trying to integrate myself into the PvP community once more. I hear this. Thanks.
I suppose now the rumors are certainly true. PvP in ESO is officially dead, and will remain only a toxic wasteland of egotistical and dishonest players. Sure there are good-hearted and clean players, but they will never be at the top of the top like in the past. Nor be the vast majority on the leaderboards. And you know why? Because there’s too much: Politics, corruption, and dishonesty occurring. And the investigations by ZOS, let alone punishments are far too lenient. What good is the point of permanent bans either, unless if you’re going to IP or console ban these players? Going into 2018 in a few days, and we don’t even have an ignore feature on console. Only block people’s profiles. And even then, it doesn’t stop blocker players from being able to whisper you, and or you reading their messages in chat.
So did you report them and link to the YouTube videos or is ZoS okay with so much cheating in their game?0 -
lonewolf26✭✭✭✭✭I've faced similar "endless healing, cc immune" dks on PC-NA. Typically people will try to ball them down only to get them low and for their health to spring up back to full in no time.
Typically they're using deep breath or draw essence to keep their health up between ulties and then using their ulti to pump their stustain. Likely also using heavy armor so they can run unstoppable which will give them nearly endless cc imunity if they can keep up their resources.
Best counter to that build would be to go range, and if you're rolling with a nightblade in the group have someone peg them with incap/soul harvest between their inhales. That'll cripple their health return and with enough pressure may bring them down easier. No sense in trying to 1 v 1 these goons, they're tanky as heck.1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭After doing some digging around further into the matter, it turns out that he was indeed running Cheat Engine. One of his buddies was friends with a friend of mine, and they just so happened to also be guildies. And after a bit of conversing, it was revealed that this particular individual is in fact running Cheat Engine. And has been for quite some time. According to this player’s boasting, he can supposedly have infinite ultimates if he wanted to. And could make it so that he not take a single bit of damage. How true the last part is, I don’t know. But, I do know that the ultimate thing is certainly a possibly. Anyone remember a particularly popularly PvP’er on PC that “exposed” things via casting “infinite Meteors”? Yeah. That came to mind too. Especially after hearing this individual boast that, “We all run CE in the top of the top. How else do you think we are able to smash trashy AD players, and accumulate so much notoriety for being good players?”
This on PS4-NA, by the way. And the main server where all of these things transpire 9x out of 10 is Vivec... So now not only are elitist scumbags who run around having their hands into everything due to them turning Cyrodiil into a political game, but now a lot of these top players on console are in fact running Cheat Engine and or other exploits. Thanks ZOS. Seriously. Thanks. Right when I was starting to really get into PvP once again, and finally start trying to integrate myself into the PvP community once more. I hear this. Thanks.
I suppose now the rumors are certainly true. PvP in ESO is officially dead, and will remain only a toxic wasteland of egotistical and dishonest players. Sure there are good-hearted and clean players, but they will never be at the top of the top like in the past. Nor be the vast majority on the leaderboards. And you know why? Because there’s too much: Politics, corruption, and dishonesty occurring. And the investigations by ZOS, let alone punishments are far too lenient. What good is the point of permanent bans either, unless if you’re going to IP or console ban these players? Going into 2018 in a few days, and we don’t even have an ignore feature on console. Only block people’s profiles. And even then, it doesn’t stop blocker players from being able to whisper you, and or you reading their messages in chat.
Cheat engine on Ps4? How?0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So um what Cheat engine on PS4 are they talking about?
I mean it's possible someone could use a computer and make their own program, but ever since they changed to server side calculations that seems unlikely.
And I haven't been able to find such a thing on the internet.
I'm still dubious that "there's rampant cheating" on console6 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know this ain't gonna be a popular view - but, even if there are some folks out there stooping low enough to cheat - there are literally thousands of other players doing the right thing on ps4/na/vivec...
don't let a few dirtbags become your focus and ruin your enjoyment...
not to sound too corny or trite, and, definitely without any religious overtones - i really believe this to be true:
Edited by geonsocal on December 29, 2017 9:18PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I know this ain't gonna be a popular view - but, even if there are some folks out there stooping low enough to cheat - there are literally thousands of other players doing the right thing on ps4/na/vivec...
don't let a few dirtbags become your focus and ruin your enjoyment...
not to sound too corny or trite, and, definitely without any religious overtones - i really believe this to be true:
Crappy motivational poster aside, how can you possibly use cheat engine on console? Someone needs to at least give some semi-plausible explanation on how that's possible.4 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »I know this ain't gonna be a popular view - but, even if there are some folks out there stooping low enough to cheat - there are literally thousands of other players doing the right thing on ps4/na/vivec...
don't let a few dirtbags become your focus and ruin your enjoyment...
not to sound too corny or trite, and, definitely without any religious overtones - i really believe this to be true:
Crappy motivational poster aside
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
i want everyone to know - before joining these forums (my first real excursion into relatively anonymous social discourse) - the only troll i had any idea about was from tolkien Edited by geonsocal on December 29, 2017 9:40PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »So um what Cheat engine on PS4 are they talking about?
I mean it's possible someone could use a computer and make their own program, but ever since they changed to server side calculations that seems unlikely.
And I haven't been able to find such a thing on the internet.
I'm still dubious that "there's rampant cheating" on console
Easier to accept than his own limitations
@Ch4mpTW I’ve got some good mDK setups if you want some build help message meEdited by Lexxypwns on December 29, 2017 9:45PM4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »I know this ain't gonna be a popular view - but, even if there are some folks out there stooping low enough to cheat - there are literally thousands of other players doing the right thing on ps4/na/vivec...
don't let a few dirtbags become your focus and ruin your enjoyment...
not to sound too corny or trite, and, definitely without any religious overtones - i really believe this to be true:
Crappy motivational poster aside, how can you possibly use cheat engine on console? Someone needs to at least give some semi-plausible explanation on how that's possible.
The most plausible explanation is that OP and his crew are a PUG-quality group.
Let's apply a pair of aphorisms here:
1. Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is that OP is not very good, OP's group is not very good, and they simply ran into a better player with a better build.
2. Hanlon's Razor. We should not jump to a malicious conclusion (i.e., that the 1v10er is a cheater) when incompetence (i.e., OP's group) can explain it.
Unless of course you want to believe that OP totally couldn't take a clip of this mythical 1v10 face-roll but of course just had to come complain about it on the forums, and then just happened to have a cousin whose former college roommate's uncle's best friend's French tutor is friends with a friend of a friend of the guy on Facebook who ratted him out and he's totally using Cheat Engine on PS4.
And of course you have to believe all of that without any evidence.
I'll go with the simpler explanation.
I'm an OK player, and I play with some pretty good players, and I've run into to foes in Cyrodiil who mopped the floor with the whole lot of us without breaking a sweat. Never once did I assume they were cheating, any more than I think the groups who no death speedrun vAS +2 are cheating or the groups who break 200k in. vHoF are cheating. The simpler explanation is that there are just a lot of players out there who are better than me.Edited by LiquidPony on December 29, 2017 11:03PM4 -
N0TPLAYER2✭✭✭✭✭I lost a battle. Can't be my fault!!!
Ohh that's it. He cheated. That's what it was...
*Feels good again*4
