Shardan4968 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Ok, so AD or DC have "big zerg" made from 1-2 bars, and EP has "big zerg" made from poplocked. I wonder who will win

I rarely see AD and DC have 1 bar while EP is full. No matter If EP is zerging or not, it's not our fault that your faction seems to like being outnumbered. The problem is that not enough yellows and blues are interested in non cp campaign and I don't understand why.

I think you're missing something.
Other factions can't just magically produce extra PvP players.
There are only a certain amount of pvpers in this game, and all three factions are drawn from that pool.
Now if 90% of that pool of PVPers all choose to stack one faction, how can you blame the other factions for the imbalance? The fault can only be with that 90%
It most certainly is NOT with the remaining 10% playing the other factions, desperately trying to keep some semblance of PVP alive as the 90% do their absolute best to kill it.

Sorry to say it, but the problem is with you, my friend, and those like you.

Its the same with off-peak AD on Vivec.

In fact, peak-time EP in vivek is hurting for players.. If I took your stance there, I'd be saying 'its not DCs fault that EP like being outnumbeted. The problem is that not enough reds are interested in the CP campaign.. I don't know why'.

Idk.. I see too many reds on sotha, not enough on vivek. I wonder who could change that?
Too many yellows on vivek, not enough on sotha.. Again I wonder who could fix that?

Snaps fingers... I know! Its DC's fault!

If it's EP fault all the sudden, then tell me what do you suggest? I don't play EP to win I play it because I have only one character I actually play and I'm too loyal to my alliance to fight for another on the same campaign. I saw whole red map, but somehow every 3 factions had only 1 bar at the time. If there's a problem with players from other alliance joining EP just to flood map, then there's a problem with system allowing players to play in other faction during same campaign. It would be stupid to lock Sotha when you don't have time to play just so other alliance won't win. My point is that don't blame the player, blame the game and I want to hear your suggestion other than "EP is zerging and they should feel bad".

There is nothing sudden about it.

There have been plenty of suggestions made - there are plenty of threads about it.

Basically, the current situation has been caused by the players - and could be resolved by the players. Or it could be resolved by ZOS - but only by adding restrictions - which somebody will always complain about.

I understand that there are those with characters in only one faction - so go to Vivec instead. EP needs help there.

If, say 1/4 of those EP on Sotha went to Vivec, and 1/4 of the AD wood-cappers in Vivec went to Sotha, the campaigns would be a LOT more balanced imho. In fact a few EP guilds have done just that, and there are now times when EP on vivec are competitive - but its only for a very short period each day.

Personally, I have mostly DC characters. I have one AD that I could play - but why would I do that and join the faction that wins every single campaign via pvdoor?
I started levelling an EP character to help them on Vivec - then I remembered how overloaded they were on Sotha and thought.. 'Why is it my problem?' (plus I'm probably a little burned out on the game so not playing as much anyways)

Eruranion wrote: »

Played EP Sotha pc EU for like 2 years and at first when EP were winning I just thought fair game. But when I started to see good long-term players in DC and AD leave the campaign it's really disheartening to play when there's 0 enemies to kill, because ad/DC constantly don't even have gatekeeps. It's funny once or twice to take the map and pvd some free 6k of ticks, but it's gone way to far it's evvvery day of evvery week of every month.
Switched sides to help boost actual pvp, how EP can still play 3 bar Vs 1 AD Vs 1DC bar till 6pm, then poplock EP vs 2 bar AD Vs 1 bar DC till about 8pm is so boring - even for EP! (Unless you are just off tick harvesting).
Last week tigor was pvding keeps poplock EP vs 1bar DC and whispered me "elite is only a group of 10", it's bad enough when nyux make lfg groups to pvd but when guilds do it poplock Vs 1 bar it's so ridiculous. Some ep guilds should really consider changing alliance and stop all this 'loyalty' crap and instead play for fun of competitive gameplay and promote ad/DC to log on so they'll actually be fighting and less pvding/steamrolling.
Used to be dead against nightcapping, but it's really fun when AD nightcap, atleast each alliance will have afew keeps each and they'll be fights instead of sitting at Northern highrock gate till 9pm

But the truth is they dont really give a damn about loyalty or any of those things, otherwise as you and others already stated they would go help out in vivec on a regular basis. But over there they get their teeth kicked in because they dont have the overwhelming numbers advantage. They dont really want any competition. Just easy wins and will use any excuse to justify it.

Biro123 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Ok, so AD or DC have "big zerg" made from 1-2 bars, and EP has "big zerg" made from poplocked. I wonder who will win

I rarely see AD and DC have 1 bar while EP is full. No matter If EP is zerging or not, it's not our fault that your faction seems to like being outnumbered. The problem is that not enough yellows and blues are interested in non cp campaign and I don't understand why.

I think you're missing something.
Other factions can't just magically produce extra PvP players.
There are only a certain amount of pvpers in this game, and all three factions are drawn from that pool.
Now if 90% of that pool of PVPers all choose to stack one faction, how can you blame the other factions for the imbalance? The fault can only be with that 90%
It most certainly is NOT with the remaining 10% playing the other factions, desperately trying to keep some semblance of PVP alive as the 90% do their absolute best to kill it.

Sorry to say it, but the problem is with you, my friend, and those like you.

Its the same with off-peak AD on Vivec.

In fact, peak-time EP in vivek is hurting for players.. If I took your stance there, I'd be saying 'its not DCs fault that EP like being outnumbeted. The problem is that not enough reds are interested in the CP campaign.. I don't know why'.

Idk.. I see too many reds on sotha, not enough on vivek. I wonder who could change that?
Too many yellows on vivek, not enough on sotha.. Again I wonder who could fix that?

Snaps fingers... I know! Its DC's fault!

If it's EP fault all the sudden, then tell me what do you suggest? I don't play EP to win I play it because I have only one character I actually play and I'm too loyal to my alliance to fight for another on the same campaign. I saw whole red map, but somehow every 3 factions had only 1 bar at the time. If there's a problem with players from other alliance joining EP just to flood map, then there's a problem with system allowing players to play in other faction during same campaign. It would be stupid to lock Sotha when you don't have time to play just so other alliance won't win. My point is that don't blame the player, blame the game and I want to hear your suggestion other than "EP is zerging and they should feel bad".

There is nothing sudden about it.

There have been plenty of suggestions made - there are plenty of threads about it.

Basically, the current situation has been caused by the players - and could be resolved by the players. Or it could be resolved by ZOS - but only by adding restrictions - which somebody will always complain about.

I understand that there are those with characters in only one faction - so go to Vivec instead. EP needs help there.

If, say 1/4 of those EP on Sotha went to Vivec, and 1/4 of the AD wood-cappers in Vivec went to Sotha, the campaigns would be a LOT more balanced imho. In fact a few EP guilds have done just that, and there are now times when EP on vivec are competitive - but its only for a very short period each day.

Personally, I have mostly DC characters. I have one AD that I could play - but why would I do that and join the faction that wins every single campaign via pvdoor?
I started levelling an EP character to help them on Vivec - then I remembered how overloaded they were on Sotha and thought.. 'Why is it my problem?' (plus I'm probably a little burned out on the game so not playing as much anyways)

Believe me I would gladly join EP in Vivec. I was even considering it, but the problem is... I'm not meta player, max cp, or some pr0 to deal with meta tanks with permablock. I just don't enjoy it and I prefer non-cp pvp. Once on the morning I came to Cyro (sotha) and yes whole map was red even that there was one bar ep. I don't enjoy it either all I can do there is just waiting in keep near gate and hope that some brave enemy will try to take resources (of course whole DC just log off in frustration). Other time I saw messages on zone chat like "stop relogging to other alliance!" and I don't expect PvP community full of rage whisperers, tea baggers and accusing emp (not only) of cheating to start cooperating and make Cyro a healthy place. Restriction like not allowing players to change alliance until campaign ends is fair and would prevent this whole discussion. There will always be complaining. My problem with you is that I hate when someone generalise. I don't like when people are saying "EP" instead of "some players". Like everyone of us just wants to screw your day. This mentality is unhealthy for PvP and is one of the reasons why it is so toxic.

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Eruranion wrote: »

Played EP Sotha pc EU for like 2 years and at first when EP were winning I just thought fair game. But when I started to see good long-term players in DC and AD leave the campaign it's really disheartening to play when there's 0 enemies to kill, because ad/DC constantly don't even have gatekeeps. It's funny once or twice to take the map and pvd some free 6k of ticks, but it's gone way to far it's evvvery day of evvery week of every month.
Switched sides to help boost actual pvp, how EP can still play 3 bar Vs 1 AD Vs 1DC bar till 6pm, then poplock EP vs 2 bar AD Vs 1 bar DC till about 8pm is so boring - even for EP! (Unless you are just off tick harvesting).
Last week tigor was pvding keeps poplock EP vs 1bar DC and whispered me "elite is only a group of 10", it's bad enough when nyux make lfg groups to pvd but when guilds do it poplock Vs 1 bar it's so ridiculous. Some ep guilds should really consider changing alliance and stop all this 'loyalty' crap and instead play for fun of competitive gameplay and promote ad/DC to log on so they'll actually be fighting and less pvding/steamrolling.
Used to be dead against nightcapping, but it's really fun when AD nightcap, atleast each alliance will have afew keeps each and they'll be fights instead of sitting at Northern highrock gate till 9pm

But the truth is they dont really give a damn about loyalty or any of those things, otherwise as you and others already stated they would go help out in vivec on a regular basis. But over there they get their teeth kicked in because they dont have the overwhelming numbers advantage. They dont really want any competition. Just easy wins and will use any excuse to justify it.

Whenever things start looking bad for EP the zerglings start complaining and leaving the campaign. They're not interested in actual PvP.

As long as I can kill people, I keep zerging. It's when I run into nothing but organised destro ult groups and heavy armor s&b users that are more or less invincible that I'll leave. If that's what you mean by actual PVP, yeah I have no interest in that or in adapting to it.

By actual PvP I mean actually fighting players who have a chance to fight back at you. I play on Sotha whenever there are enough enemies to fight against, EP isn't already dominating the map, and it's not too laggy. That's also the time when most EP go to PvE land or log off.

The only blue or yell guild groups needed on Sotha are those that don't play during prime time.

Unlike the Reds who could really need some organized groups from 7-10 CET.

Biro123 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Ok, so AD or DC have "big zerg" made from 1-2 bars, and EP has "big zerg" made from poplocked. I wonder who will win

I rarely see AD and DC have 1 bar while EP is full. No matter If EP is zerging or not, it's not our fault that your faction seems to like being outnumbered. The problem is that not enough yellows and blues are interested in non cp campaign and I don't understand why.

I think you're missing something.
Other factions can't just magically produce extra PvP players.
There are only a certain amount of pvpers in this game, and all three factions are drawn from that pool.
Now if 90% of that pool of PVPers all choose to stack one faction, how can you blame the other factions for the imbalance? The fault can only be with that 90%
It most certainly is NOT with the remaining 10% playing the other factions, desperately trying to keep some semblance of PVP alive as the 90% do their absolute best to kill it.

Sorry to say it, but the problem is with you, my friend, and those like you.

Its the same with off-peak AD on Vivec.

In fact, peak-time EP in vivek is hurting for players.. If I took your stance there, I'd be saying 'its not DCs fault that EP like being outnumbeted. The problem is that not enough reds are interested in the CP campaign.. I don't know why'.

Idk.. I see too many reds on sotha, not enough on vivek. I wonder who could change that?
Too many yellows on vivek, not enough on sotha.. Again I wonder who could fix that?

Snaps fingers... I know! Its DC's fault!

If it's EP fault all the sudden, then tell me what do you suggest? I don't play EP to win I play it because I have only one character I actually play and I'm too loyal to my alliance to fight for another on the same campaign. I saw whole red map, but somehow every 3 factions had only 1 bar at the time. If there's a problem with players from other alliance joining EP just to flood map, then there's a problem with system allowing players to play in other faction during same campaign. It would be stupid to lock Sotha when you don't have time to play just so other alliance won't win. My point is that don't blame the player, blame the game and I want to hear your suggestion other than "EP is zerging and they should feel bad".

There is nothing sudden about it.

There have been plenty of suggestions made - there are plenty of threads about it.

Basically, the current situation has been caused by the players - and could be resolved by the players.

Lopsided campaigns are result of poor design that makes such state easy to develop and very hard to break; it is basically equilibirum. Some contributing factors:

1) Keeps are more or less equally difficult to flip. Once a dominant faction's zerg starts rolling and overruns one keep, you can log off right away, because it will be...not even the same all the way back to base camps, but worse, because other players will arrive at similar conclusions, log off and further weaken losing side.
2) It is easy to concentrate forces and no compelling reasons whatsoever to split up or trade-offs for not splitting up. The strongest faction can roflstomp one weaker side and than hurry to the other side of map and roflstomp, in time, the other weaker faction. It is the same many vs. few over and over again, even as losing sides' territories shrink; they do not benefit from having higher density of soldiers per unit of area or keep.
3) The above actually provides incentive for weaker factions to seek more balanced battles and attack each other instead of banding against the dominant faction.
4) Lack of meaningful objectives. With campaign in one-colour state, what could stubborn remnants of defeated factions do? Well, they could attack one of their home keeps and wipe, because every enemy has nothing else to do but hurry there and roflstomp them. They could attack an outpost and wipe even faster, because enemies can in part port directly in and in part will be already waiting there; an outpost is by far the best place to lurk at. Finally, they could flip a resource and def...no, wipe again, because what little help feeble flag guards can provide is completely negated by the fact that already numerically superior enemies have inifite respawn a few seconds away. So, they will try everything, wipe a few times and log off.
5) Disparity in utilization of random individuals or small groups. This is closely related to 2) and 4). If these players are on losing side, they have no attack/defense to join, because attacks are roflstomped too quickly, if they occur at all, and there is nothing to defend, therefore they will log off. If they are on winning side, they can still lurk e.g. at said outposts and help suppress uprisings wherever they flare up, and stay.

I think the ball is on ZOS's part of the playground. It could, perhaps:
1) Make home keeps more difficult to lose, easier to recapture, therefore factions would be harder to knock out and recover more easily.
2) Buff, so that it matters, and invert keep level, so that over time, keeps are easier, not harder to flip. Therefore, over time, it would be harder for the dominant faction to maintain its empire, and at the same time, weaker factions would know that if they manage to flip something, it will not be immediately zerged and taken away from them.
3) Rework port system, make some ports one way and generally prevent concentration of forces at no cost, especially for large empires. DC/Brindle/Drakelowe could retain two-way ports to increase their value, but that is just side note.
4) Rework keep respawns, add timers, move them out to resources or new objectives.
5) Make keeps light up sooner. Even though that would give away sieges sooner (which is however not an issue in situations where defenders have nothing else to do but lurk at their keeps), it would also cut ports and respawn sooner and therefore push sieges into some attackers, some defenders space between the two now prevalent extremes, which is PvDoor (no defenders) and entire factions ports in at no cost and backed by infinite respawns roflstomps attackers (all defenders).

Biro123 wrote: »

Or it could be resolved by ZOS - but only by adding restrictions - which somebody will always complain about.

I understand that there are those with characters in only one faction - so go to Vivec instead. EP needs help there.

If, say 1/4 of those EP on Sotha went to Vivec, and 1/4 of the AD wood-cappers in Vivec went to Sotha, the campaigns would be a LOT more balanced imho. In fact a few EP guilds have done just that, and there are now times when EP on vivec are competitive - but its only for a very short period each day.

Personally, I have mostly DC characters. I have one AD that I could play - but why would I do that and join the faction that wins every single campaign via pvdoor?
I started levelling an EP character to help them on Vivec - then I remembered how overloaded they were on Sotha and thought.. 'Why is it my problem?' (plus I'm probably a little burned out on the game so not playing as much anyways)