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ESO's overland content is too hard
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.5 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.
Wasn't talking to you. Wait your turn.
So, you said that you want mechanical difficulty, right? Well, give me specifics.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 29, 2017 6:30AM2 -
Pele✭✭✭✭✭Difficult overland was already a thing, and it didn't work. It became extremely rare to find anyone in the vet zones especially the final vet zones (vet Bangkorai, vet Reaper's March, vet The Rift) because it was so hard that mudcrabs could one shot you. ESO shouldn't revert to that.
Instead, current overland difficulty should be kept as is, and a separate hard mode overland should be made for those who want it. But I wonder how popular hard mode overland would be, considering it wasn't before.4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.
Wasn't talking to you. Wait your turn.
So, you said that you want mechanical difficulty, right? Well, give me specifics.
Put simply, more engaging gameplay. Instead of the tank and spank face roll mobs we have at the moment. More deadly aoe attacks, enemies using debuffs and buffs, enemies using negates and things that would silence the player, support enemies that latch onto you and cause you to be less effective that work in tandem with offensive enemies. A good example would be those 2 in that dungeon in vvardenfell. The sword and shield npc with the mage npc. They worked in tandem. As of now 99.9 % of enemies are 100% useless. Either we need a mechanics overhaul, or just a difficulty hike.4 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭So you still want to struggle killing random NPC's and wolves? We all did once. But once you become better, what was once hard isn't so hard anymore, right? I don't know if it's a matter of melancholy on your behalf, but I guess you need to move on, and find other aspects of the game appealing. Trials, PVP, collecting achievements, make crafting styles complete and what not. Or maybe it's time for you to simply move on to some other game? I mean, there are new players - and you really can't make overland content equally challenging for a lvl 3 and a cp 690, right?
Why can't you? Why, for instance, does difficulty scaling stop after 160 CP? Not that it's satisfyingly challenging with 160 CP but why does it have to get even easier?
To be fair, I really don't want to have to do more than to deal one heavy attack to a friggin wolf, for example. I was forced to actually fight for my life against random wolves, bears and trolls as a new player. I could hardly run from them either. I have found new challenging things to do, "one demand". Trials, PVP, some veteran dungeons, soloing overland bosses etc. That's the way I like it, and I guess most agree.3 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭Edited by Aisle9 on December 29, 2017 1:22PMArtemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)
Lemmy Raise Master - EP stamina necromancer (PC - EU)
Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild
LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.
#SpellswordArmy
#MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain
In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit
"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"5 -
I wish their was a harder version of overland. I loved v1-16 so much because I could fight something that could kill me outside of dlc bosses in the overland.4
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
There is a ton of instanced content in the overworld that can have tiered difficulty as well.
Public dungeons, delves, and most story quests are all instanced separate from the overworld. They could easily implement normal and vet difficulties for these.
They are not private instances and Zos intended it that way.
Regardless, those in this thread would not be satisfied with only that. We can see that for sure, especially with the OP's comments vacillated as to why he does not do trials.
It has been mentioned that taking off ones armor helps but people do not want to do that. They want to run with full CP and BiS armor and have Zos change things. Well . . . my previous comments are accurate and stand solid.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disclaimer, I don't really mind the current state of the overland.
A possible solution for both sides though. Add a mechanic that gives the player a random debuff while doing overland content, but in return you get a increased rewards from mobs (item drop rate, exp, item quality, gold amount) from overland mobs. Having a RNG debuff would make it difficult to build a character around a specific mechanic. If you really wanted to liven things up, give players the option of stacking multiple debuffs for more rewarding loot/exp (diminishing returns).
Not possible unless mob tagging was implemented, which a great many would dislike. A system like that without mob tagging would result in players gaming it to power level or farm via having a non debuffed max cp friend hang out and help them kill mobs and WBs while they reap the benefits of the debuff rewards.
0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.
Wasn't talking to you. Wait your turn.
So, you said that you want mechanical difficulty, right? Well, give me specifics.
Put simply, more engaging gameplay. Instead of the tank and spank face roll mobs we have at the moment. More deadly aoe attacks, enemies using debuffs and buffs, enemies using negates and things that would silence the player, support enemies that latch onto you and cause you to be less effective that work in tandem with offensive enemies. A good example would be those 2 in that dungeon in vvardenfell. The sword and shield npc with the mage npc. They worked in tandem. As of now 99.9 % of enemies are 100% useless. Either we need a mechanics overhaul, or just a difficulty hike.
Now. Funnily enough I can work with this.
We have examples of the designers having bosses do this. Velidreth alone uses several debuffs on you.
The problem is, the way the skills and builds are usually setup right now I dont think it'd work overmuch. Because the problem is in comparison to plenty of other MMO's this games incredibly limited. It requires you to build ultrasquish for decent DPS. So if this is going to happen, we need to do two things. 1. Get rid of CP entirely. 2. Give the classes depth through some means, like a tallent tree or something.
Not to mention the lack of clense, and the fact that most mechanics like this seem to be relegated to what I like to call the 'basic layer'. IE, block this to stagger, interrupt to stagger, that sort of thing. That seems to be what that layer is there for.
See I'm -not opposed- to this idea. It just requires a more mechanically sound game than we have. I mean case in point, they're nerfng tanks next update, and that's allready on a collission course for a point where the tanks wont be able to keep up with the content.
I'd like for the day to come when this kind of design is implimented, and I have a character I can truely call my own, that works and can reasonibly compete in this kind of environment. But for that day to come, problem people need to be removed from the development department.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 29, 2017 6:40PM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
My MO is pointing out your greed.
In the Original post you criticize endgame mobs for dying reasonibly easily to anyone with decent gear and blue food. That's not unreasonable. And since then, all you've really done is call for a straight increase in damage taken, and decrease in damage delt.
Attempting to argue that raid gear should be needed for questing, reguardless of expansion or zone, is unreasonable, has no basis in the genre that I'm aware of, and is arguing from emotion rather than reason. "They shouldn't be able to do it! They have not got gud like I did!" (And dont give the the strawman crap. There's very little else you could have ment by that statement. Either you ment we should need raid gear, or ground gear from other zones. Eitherway, it's a nonstarter. You should not need more than you can reasonibly obtain for basic content.)
That's lazy difficulty, and shouldn't be indulged. Other people have given -reasonable- suggestions, and they're not half bad. You, are not here to be constructive, your here to whine for another crutch for your ego, so dont give me this crap.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 29, 2017 6:48PM0 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭If the quest dialog was more engaging and the map was more like a fantasy map and not GPS and there were more boss patrols that can kill you if you aggro and respawn and run back was an actual thing and there were an option when entering a zone to play in on easy or hard like the difficulty slider in the other ESO games then I think most people would be content. But these are things that would have been implemented when the game was released and since there is no pressure from others MMOs to make it happen in order to maintain market share there is no reason to do any of this.1
-
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the quest dialog was more engaging and the map was more like a fantasy map and not GPS and there were more boss patrols that can kill you if you aggro and respawn and run back was an actual thing and there were an option when entering a zone to play in on easy or hard like the difficulty slider in the other ESO games then I think most people would be content. But these are things that would have been implemented when the game was released and since there is no pressure from others MMOs to make it happen in order to maintain market share there is no reason to do any of this.
This is basicly the large problem with most of the design issues.
It shipped like this, so deal with it or get out. I hate this explination but it's generally true from what I've seen, aside from the occasional balance changes, ZOS does not like changing game mechanics.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 29, 2017 6:53PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.
You are both making strawman arguments in this thread. You are selectively ignoring arguments people actually make and arguing against things nobody actually said. You're literally making things up to argue against.
Ive even QUOTED my posts for you on several occasionas, but you just ignore them and continue arguing against your strawman.
I'm not sure if you just lack basic reading comprehension skills at this point or you're trolling.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 29, 2017 7:30PM6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
There is a ton of instanced content in the overworld that can have tiered difficulty as well.
Public dungeons, delves, and most story quests are all instanced separate from the overworld. They could easily implement normal and vet difficulties for these.
They are not private instances and Zos intended it that way.
Regardless, those in this thread would not be satisfied with only that. We can see that for sure, especially with the OP's comments vacillated as to why he does not do trials.
It has been mentioned that taking off ones armor helps but people do not want to do that. They want to run with full CP and BiS armor and have Zos change things. Well . . . my previous comments are accurate and stand solid.
They don't have to be private instances. They just need to be separate instances from the overworld, which they are.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 29, 2017 7:20PM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.
You are both making strawman arguments in this thread. You are selectively ignoring arguments people actually make and arguing against things nobody actually said. You're literally making things up to argue against.
Ive even QUOTED my posts for you on several occasionas, but you just ignore them and continue arguing against your strawman.
I'm not sure if you just lack basic reading comprehension skills at this point or you're trolling.
Again, we keep triyng to go off what you say. We debunk it. Then you cry about how we're misrepresenting you.
Criticism isn't misrepresentation.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.
You are both making strawman arguments in this thread. You are selectively ignoring arguments people actually make and arguing against things nobody actually said. You're literally making things up to argue against.
Ive even QUOTED my posts for you on several occasionas, but you just ignore them and continue arguing against your strawman.
I'm not sure if you just lack basic reading comprehension skills at this point or you're trolling.
Again, we keep triyng to go off what you say. We debunk it. Then you cry about how we're misrepresenting you.
Criticism isn't misrepresentation.
You haven't criticized one thing I've said though. You haven't quoted a single one of my arguments. All you've done is say things like "OP said this" (without a quote because I never actually said that) and then go off on a tangent arguing against something that was never said. This is classic strawman argumentation.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.
You are both making strawman arguments in this thread. You are selectively ignoring arguments people actually make and arguing against things nobody actually said. You're literally making things up to argue against.
Ive even QUOTED my posts for you on several occasionas, but you just ignore them and continue arguing against your strawman.
I'm not sure if you just lack basic reading comprehension skills at this point or you're trolling.
Again, we keep triyng to go off what you say. We debunk it. Then you cry about how we're misrepresenting you.
Criticism isn't misrepresentation.
You haven't criticized one thing I've said though. You haven't quoted a single one of my arguments. All you've done is say things like "OP said this" (without a quote because I never actually said that) and then go off on a tangent arguing against something that was never said. This is classic strawman argumentation.
...That is criticism of your arguement, or what little you've given me. Or what little I can find on short notice.
You want me to rip them apart that bad why dont you list them? I'll be happy to, but I'm not reading the entire thread again just for your sake.
If you expect me to remember every single arguement over the course of days, well then....sorry buddy, I got other stuff to think about other than hangin' on every word of yours.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 29, 2017 8:01PM0 -
Cêltic421✭✭✭✭This game is catered to Casual players so of course the Overland zones is going to be boring as f*** to vet players.
I agree with you that it should be more difficult or at least an option for players that wants difficulty to choose a different difficulty level
yes story content is extremely boring to me cuz there is no challenge so I just ran through them and just don't give a f*** about the story. I would love to enjoy the story content more so if they increase the difficulty an option to increase the . I would think it would be beneficial to the game. It'll be fun to have some zones that was like old craglorn where you need a group to complete a quest. But again is cater to Casual players and this is just not the game for hardcore players.
I've been losing interest in this game cause the challenging content are so limited. I had become more of a casual player but the game is still easy and boring. I hope Z OS do something to address these issues in the upcoming new chapter and DLCs5 -
Jarryzzt✭✭✭✭One wonders.
Granting ZOS their 2.5 million MAUs (monthly active users). Let us even suppose that this means 1.5-2.0 million active players (and the rest sort of pop in and out, or drop off due to churn).
How many of these couple-of-million hypothesized players have meaningful CP? Or any CP, if, say, they are spending an hour a day to grind five characters simultaneously?
How many of them have even normal dungeon set-quality gear, and on what proportion of their characters? How many have any set bonuses at all vs. wearing random things they've found while questing or crafted in town?
How many of them can, at level 50, pull off 10k DPS with some statistically significant self-heal? Bluntly put, how many could (gear- and ability-wise) run through nMA without any deaths?
How many of them do any meaningful overland PVE at all, or, rather, how many of them spend their time primarily in PVP or various endgame (primarily group) content?
----
I could go on, but the point is - we know that some specific individuals on the forums want overland PVE to be made easier or harder. We do not know what the active player base looks like, in particular in terms of the breakdown between beginners, "casuals", "veterans", "hardcore" players, et cetera.
You will notice that every single question I posed above I tried to frame in a way that you can answer it definitively with server-side statistics. But we, the players, do not have server-side statistics - only ZOS does. Which leads to the following possibilities:
- Overland difficulty is "working as intended" across the entirety of the player base even if some individuals complain on the forums. [And I will bet you that even if you scraped the entire forum for each and every "make PVE harder" post this past year you won't get more than a few hundred distinct users - or even make it a few thousand, that is nothing next to 2.5 million MAUs, or even half that number of active players.]
- Overland difficulty is not working as intended and ZOS will, at some future time, rebalance the game accordingly. But they obviously won't say anything in this regard (or would be very foolish to do so) until the technical work is clearly nearing completion.
- ZOS does not conduct detailed analysis of server-side stats except on a very ad-hoc basis, and as such balances content based on a finger-in-the-wind approach. [Unlikely, for obvious reasons. Even some of the more poorly balanced MMOs in this day and age have someone checking server-side stats on a semi-systematic basis.]
- ZOS internal procedures and management priorities are such that balancing "issues" - among others - get shunted aside for more "important" considerations. [Pre-console Marvel Heroes was exhibit A for this, where near-bankruptcy plus rush to match Marvel film release dates led to buggy and unbalanced content being pushed out again and again. Things like bumping the damage of all of a new character's skills by 10% two weeks after release happened more than once. Unlikely for ESO specifically, but not impossible.]
Pick your poison. You note that in all instances, there isn't very much that players can do other than keep complaining on the forums in the hopes that someone at ZOS will talk about the volume of said complaints in the next design meeting. [Which, in a rational world, would just loop back to ZOS looking at server-side stats and stating that things are/are not working as intended per internal views on the subject.]
TLDR. I do not think anything is going to happen in the near term, nor that complaining about it on the forums is terribly productive. [Either ZOS likes the current balance based on its internal metrics, or it does not.]
In the long run, however, I would anticipate that we will, eventually, in due course, after a suitable period of consideration, at some future time, see overland rebalancing, and for this reason. With any MMO like this (or any similar product), you have to go through "editions" now and again. Meaning, you keep adding content, bolting on a piece here, a slice there, and then you end up with such a messy product that you have to do a global pass to streamline things and, sort of, relaunch the new game as a "complete package". ESO has already had this happen (compare the game today to its launch three years ago), and I suspect that three years from now we will again be playing a fairly different game than what it is today. So - hope springs eternal, or some such.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.
Wasn't talking to you. Wait your turn.
So, you said that you want mechanical difficulty, right? Well, give me specifics.
Put simply, more engaging gameplay. Instead of the tank and spank face roll mobs we have at the moment. More deadly aoe attacks, enemies using debuffs and buffs, enemies using negates and things that would silence the player, support enemies that latch onto you and cause you to be less effective that work in tandem with offensive enemies. A good example would be those 2 in that dungeon in vvardenfell. The sword and shield npc with the mage npc. They worked in tandem. As of now 99.9 % of enemies are 100% useless. Either we need a mechanics overhaul, or just a difficulty hike.
Now. Funnily enough I can work with this.
We have examples of the designers having bosses do this. Velidreth alone uses several debuffs on you.
The problem is, the way the skills and builds are usually setup right now I dont think it'd work overmuch. Because the problem is in comparison to plenty of other MMO's this games incredibly limited. It requires you to build ultrasquish for decent DPS. So if this is going to happen, we need to do two things. 1. Get rid of CP entirely. 2. Give the classes depth through some means, like a tallent tree or something.
Not to mention the lack of clense, and the fact that most mechanics like this seem to be relegated to what I like to call the 'basic layer'. IE, block this to stagger, interrupt to stagger, that sort of thing. That seems to be what that layer is there for.
See I'm -not opposed- to this idea. It just requires a more mechanically sound game than we have. I mean case in point, they're nerfng tanks next update, and that's allready on a collission course for a point where the tanks wont be able to keep up with the content.
I'd like for the day to come when this kind of design is implimented, and I have a character I can truely call my own, that works and can reasonibly compete in this kind of environment. But for that day to come, problem people need to be removed from the development department.
Whoah. We agreed on something.
I would love gameplay like that ^-^0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Already did and you ignored it.
Wasn't talking to you. Wait your turn.
So, you said that you want mechanical difficulty, right? Well, give me specifics.
Put simply, more engaging gameplay. Instead of the tank and spank face roll mobs we have at the moment. More deadly aoe attacks, enemies using debuffs and buffs, enemies using negates and things that would silence the player, support enemies that latch onto you and cause you to be less effective that work in tandem with offensive enemies. A good example would be those 2 in that dungeon in vvardenfell. The sword and shield npc with the mage npc. They worked in tandem. As of now 99.9 % of enemies are 100% useless. Either we need a mechanics overhaul, or just a difficulty hike.
Now. Funnily enough I can work with this.
We have examples of the designers having bosses do this. Velidreth alone uses several debuffs on you.
The problem is, the way the skills and builds are usually setup right now I dont think it'd work overmuch. Because the problem is in comparison to plenty of other MMO's this games incredibly limited. It requires you to build ultrasquish for decent DPS. So if this is going to happen, we need to do two things. 1. Get rid of CP entirely. 2. Give the classes depth through some means, like a tallent tree or something.
Not to mention the lack of clense, and the fact that most mechanics like this seem to be relegated to what I like to call the 'basic layer'. IE, block this to stagger, interrupt to stagger, that sort of thing. That seems to be what that layer is there for.
See I'm -not opposed- to this idea. It just requires a more mechanically sound game than we have. I mean case in point, they're nerfng tanks next update, and that's allready on a collission course for a point where the tanks wont be able to keep up with the content.
I'd like for the day to come when this kind of design is implimented, and I have a character I can truely call my own, that works and can reasonibly compete in this kind of environment. But for that day to come, problem people need to be removed from the development department.
Whoah. We agreed on something.
I would love gameplay like that ^-^
So would I.
...Which probably means it'll never *** happen.0 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wish there was more challenging over world content, at the same time also having plenty of content at the current difficulty level.
I DO NOT expect to have to remove gear etc I've acquired while playing, in order to make the game more challenging, the game provides the gear, it should provide the content to match.
I'm a 53 yr old with various health issues and while in the past I enjoyed raids in other MMOs that took up whole evenings of non stop concentration (and occasionally felt more like a high pressure job than a game), I've played ESO since public beta, I haven't run one trial and I doubt I've even run all the group dungeons yet.
I play about 4 hrs a day, max cp and really enjoy the game, but due to health issues, I often don't feel like grouping or can't commit to playing at a set time, or, I play in the day on and off and want to spend time with my wife in the evenings etc. So for those reasons, over world content is my main play arena.
I do enjoy PvP but not all the time.
The trouble is, for me, there is very little challenging content.
I played a mag sorc from release until about a month ago when I finally bought Morrowind. I started a mag warden and am really enjoying it.
But, its almost depressingly easy. I've got crafted gear on, no decent dropped sets.
I've been collecting skyshards this week. Bearing in mind I haven't a clue how to play this class, I've got every skyshard in all 3 alliances and also killed all group bosses in all public dungeons without coming close to dying (all solo).
In Crag I have also got every skyshard. I have tried to kill most of crags dungeon bosses solo, sure its a bit harder than the other content, sometimes I've died two or three times before I've killed it. So far there's only one boss there that i've tried that I haven't killed yet.
I tried MA (not vet) on my sorc a couple of times but not really my thing, and never persevered with it. I tried it once a couple of weeks ago on my warden and completed it for my first time. Only a couple of levels were a real challenge, I could do most of the others before the mechanics kicked in, for example the one with the trolls breaking the ice, I hardly had to move until the last round. Just spammed my birds at the trolls when they appeared on the other islands.
Sure I haven't tried VMA, but again, arena play isn't my thing.
When I do occasionally join my guild for dungeon runs, they seem fairly easy (sure sometimes we wipe, but compared to when I used to do the hard content in say LOTRO, ESO is child's play).
Its getting to the point that while I love the game, no challenge at all is no fun. I diverted a couple of months into farming and joined my first trade guild. I made a few million and didn't see the point of farming anymore so left the guild.
Once I have the skyshards, I'm not sure what there will be left to keep me interested.
What I want is some challenging story mode, so I can log in for an hour here or an hour there. I'm not asking for all easy content to be abolished, I'm simply saying there needs to be a balance.
I tried darksouls 2 and found it really refreshing to have a game that's hard. It took me months, but I completed it (OK on bonfire level 1) . I don't expect ESO over world to be that hard, but I would like to be able to log in for an hour here and there and be able to do something along the lines of public dungeons, but where I have to think a bit and can't simply spam 1 or 2 skills.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.
And I have yet to see anyone argue that it should be anymore nuanced then a simple 'you do less damage, they do more'. Which is worthless and will just make the game tedious.
I would welcome another suggestion on how to make the game engaging besides making the kill timers longer.
I the reality is everyone in this thread wanting a more challenging open world content aren't even asking for the same thing. Heck, some refuse to do the more re challenging content in the game went it is yet want more.
Heck, if they did ramp up the difficulty in a noticeable manner there would most certainly be players who thing it's ridiculously easy and others, some actualiunij this thread, would come to these forums saying they made it to hard and it's to challenging for them. That's a guarantee.
Good point, because as someone else said, difficulty is subjective.
So maybe we should find out -what we want- and give specifics before we go off half cocked. That helps the designers, and the people who wont compromise.
The forums has never been a place people endnote uo agreeing on something like this. It's why we have tiered instanced content at varying difficulty levels.
Take into consideration that a small percentage of the player base has cleared all HM trails yet many find vet 4 man dungeons very challenging. Heck, some find normal 4 man dungeons challenging.
For that reason open world will remain as if is. For that reason a new dlc containing more challenging content is extremely unlikely due to it being bad business in a game like this.
Pretty much this.
And yet the OP will screech and screech when it'd be better for them to find another game.
Find me one example on this forum where I've said that. You're the only one "screeching" in these threads and telling anyone who disagrees with you that this game isn't for them.
Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
Did you read the thread? Of course you didn't. Your MO is strawman arguments.
Someone basically says be more detailed in what you mean as more challenging and your best reply is to call him out as being a straw man? Dude, what you find challenging is very likely a walk in the park for someone else and death of their character for others if they just think about it.
This coming from the same person how originally stated the reason they didn't do vet trials is beicause it's way to hard getting 12 people together to do a 30 minute trial. When that was clearly debunked the reason became he could not RPG as he prefers in trials.
Take your armor off, as others have mentioned. It will increase the difficulty level.
Regardless. Your suggestion. Will not happen for the logical reasons many of us have mentione in this thread and you have not mentioned one actual counter to any of it.
You are both making strawman arguments in this thread. You are selectively ignoring arguments people actually make and arguing against things nobody actually said. You're literally making things up to argue against.
Ive even QUOTED my posts for you on several occasionas, but you just ignore them and continue arguing against your strawman.
I'm not sure if you just lack basic reading comprehension skills at this point or you're trolling.
Again, we keep triyng to go off what you say. We debunk it. Then you cry about how we're misrepresenting you.
Criticism isn't misrepresentation.
You haven't criticized one thing I've said though. You haven't quoted a single one of my arguments. All you've done is say things like "OP said this" (without a quote because I never actually said that) and then go off on a tangent arguing against something that was never said. This is classic strawman argumentation.
...That is criticism of your arguement, or what little you've given me. Or what little I can find on short notice.
You want me to rip them apart that bad why dont you list them? I'll be happy to, but I'm not reading the entire thread again just for your sake.
If you expect me to remember every single arguement over the course of days, well then....sorry buddy, I got other stuff to think about other than hangin' on every word of yours.
Quoting you:Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Then provide a model you'd like to see. What do you want? Mechanical difficulty? A sheer increase, as you've said, just modifying the damage done and damage taken stats?
Of course, to paraphrase a movie, you cant do -that-. Cuz that'd make it real.
If you're going to fling personal attacks, then at least take the time to read what the poster you are attacking said instead of making things up and arguing against that.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 30, 2017 3:45AM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry buddy. I have better things to do than to research a ten page thread just to argue against points.
I do not care that much.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmKk1k-VM8