Maybe consider WHY you want a harder overland

CaffeinatedMayhem · December 2017

Power Creep. Instead of continually annoying ZOS for a harder overland, harder VMA, harder trials, harder everything.. why not ask for less power creep?
At launch, going off road was a serious time investment in killing even a single NPC, much less a mob. Mudcrabs could kill you easily (not joking). Leather sold for 25k per 100 stack - because it was so hard to obtain. (also, fewer dungeon mobs dropped leather) What has changed? More powerful sets, CP bonuses (and 690 points to put in them), more powerful traits and skills.

Yes, the overland difficulty has dropped in most zones due to One Tamriel, this was a good change. New players can progress without dying 10 times per quest. Farming is easier so more players (and bots) gather, which means lower prices at the traders. It's also possible for a CP690 player to help their friend at lvl 20. (on a max level tank just blocking attacks could kill lvl 20 mobs)

The issue of feeling overpowered isn't just because the content is too easy, it's because you, the player, ARE overpowered. Granted, CP bonuses allow for more varied builds, across more difficulty levels. Vet trials tanks would never have any stamina without 100 in Shadow Ward. Stam sorcs would revert to their pre-CP status of "hahahha, lol".

I apreciate the work ZOS continues to do on balance, though, maybe stop tweaking PvE to fix PvP. (*cough* upcoming stam nerf *cough*) Overall, I would prefer to be less powerful. It is more challening to kill a boss with 12 million health when your group DPS is 75k? Yes, but less DPS can make trials bosses into mechanics fights, not simple DPS burns. (oversimplfied, but so many groups ignore mechanics and get better results with just burning the boss, which is boring to me as a tank) It also would make overland much more difficult, BUT, with the current scaling algorithms, I don't think new players would suffer as much as we think. It could even force bots away from XP farming, if 1 sorc with lightning form and 2 pets can't kill 4 mobs pulled together.

Just a thought on WHY there is discussion on overland difficulty. Remember, ESO is an MMORPG. Props to ZOS for managing a solo experience in a multiplayer environment, and even providing super difficult content for 10% of players who want that challenge.

Drakkdjinn · December 2017

Petitions to revamp CP, aka power creep, are all over the forums, documenting their negative impact on many aspects of gameplay.

nnargun · December 2017

I don't want harder vMA, I want more vMA. There is no endgame content designed for solo play apart from that one arena. Hence all the frustration about the easy-as-cake overland imo. Playing an online game should give me the option to group whenever I want but not force me to.
I think the power creep is a completely different matter. Also I don't see very many people complaining about trial HMs being too easy.

CaffeinatedMayhem · December 2017

@Drakkdjinn Care to link? All I see is the daily “harder X” threads.

@nnargun Most are easy once you’ve run them enough. Like VMA . Also, you can group whenever you want and aren’t forced at all. Wanting more VMA style content is fine, but maybe you should consider a request that won’t force ZOS to allocate a separate instance for every zone that a small percentage of players may want to use sometimes. There is no way to prevent noobs from wandering into your V++ difficulty fight without putting it in a separate instance. This takes memory, cpu, i/o streams, physical requirements. One of the driving factors in 1T was likely the ability to run 50-65% less world instances, thus freeing up hardware space for housing and other types of instances.

nnargun · December 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

@Drakkdjinn Care to link? All I see is the daily “harder X” threads.

@nnargun Most are easy once you’ve run them enough. Like VMA

Exactly, once you've run them enough. It's certainly not easy when you do it for the first time though because it's not a matter of CP but of learning mechanics. After five clears I found vMA easy even with only 300 CP. So what we need is more of it.

nnargun · December 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

@Drakkdjinn Care to link? All I see is the daily “harder X” threads.

@nnargun Most are easy once you’ve run them enough. Like VMA . Also, you can group whenever you want and aren’t forced at all. Wanting more VMA style content is fine, but maybe you should consider a request that won’t force ZOS to allocate a separate instance for every zone that a small percentage of players may want to use sometimes. There is no way to prevent noobs from wandering into your V++ difficulty fight without putting it in a separate instance. This takes memory, cpu, i/o streams, physical requirements. One of the driving factors in 1T was likely the ability to run 50-65% less world instances, thus freeing up hardware space for housing and other types of instances.

I have no clue about the technical side of the matter. But if we can't have instanced delves and such because of housing, please remove housing asap.

Drakkdjinn · December 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

@Drakkdjinn Care to link? All I see is the daily “harder X” threads.

@nnargun Most are easy once you’ve run them enough. Like VMA . Also, you can group whenever you want and aren’t forced at all. Wanting more VMA style content is fine, but maybe you should consider a request that won’t force ZOS to allocate a separate instance for every zone that a small percentage of players may want to use sometimes. There is no way to prevent noobs from wandering into your V++ difficulty fight without putting it in a separate instance. This takes memory, cpu, i/o streams, physical requirements. One of the driving factors in 1T was likely the ability to run 50-65% less world instances, thus freeing up hardware space for housing and other types of instances.

Forum Search function: power creep, CP PvP, permablocking, shield stacking, BGs, etc.

Kel · December 2017

The best idea I've seen about harder overland content, by far, was someone suggested going to a certain NPC that puts a debuff on you. Like the maim mechanic in Asylum. You don't hit as hard and you get hit harder.
That way, you can turn it off/on yourself without the need to futher fracture the community into instance within instance.
If for some reason this idea doesn't appeal to you, then what the hell are you really asking for?

QuebraRegra · December 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Petitions to revamp CP, aka power creep, are all over the forums, documenting their negative impact on many aspects of gameplay.

said so before they instituted CPs.... looks like I was right after all.. I must be omniscient

only a fool didn't see the power creep problem (although vet system had it's issues certainly). I luv all the "treadmill" threads about increasing difficulty, so that we can power creep mor, so that we can ask for a difficulty increase again... wait what's the end game?

How about a huge enemy world boss event(s)?

StormIV · December 2017

nnargun wrote: »

I don't want harder vMA, I want more vMA. There is no endgame content designed for solo play apart from that one arena. Hence all the frustration about the easy-as-cake overland imo. Playing an online game should give me the option to group whenever I want but not force me to.

I logged into respectfully, yet vehemently disagree with this solo argument. Grouping is precisely what makes MMORPG's (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) unique. The social element of group content (dungeons and trials) as a game system is integral to the game and it is what makes the content in MMOs more challenging than any other PvE genre. You as the player have the option to complete a myriad of solo content; crafting, quests, and pvp, to name a few. When grouping requirements are eliminated from an MMO, you hasten the slow death of the game and water down it's core game systems.

For more info on socialization as a key pillar of game design, read this design article from UCLA. Here is an excerpt:

When designing any game, it is worthwhile to think about the game's social uses, and how the
system encourages or discourages socialization. For instance, almost every network has online
versions of classic games like poker and bridge. And in almost every case, those games have failed to attract much useage.

Solo content is always easier, but does not encourage socialization, which in turn is less enjoyable to the player. MMO's are successful when they promote socialization through groups and other systems.

badmojo · December 2017

If there are multiple instances of each major zone already, changing one of them to hard mode wouldnt increase the total number of instances.

But why does it even matter if another instance costs ZOS a couple bucks a month? They arent pinching pennies to keep this game alive. Let their accountants worry about the budget.

nnargun · December 2017

StormIV wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

I don't want harder vMA, I want more vMA. There is no endgame content designed for solo play apart from that one arena. Hence all the frustration about the easy-as-cake overland imo. Playing an online game should give me the option to group whenever I want but not force me to.

I logged into respectfully, yet vehemently disagree with this solo argument. Grouping is precisely what makes MMORPG's (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) unique. The social element of group content (dungeons and trials) as a game system is integral to the game and it is what makes the content in MMOs more challenging than any other PvE genre. You as the player have the option to complete a myriad of solo content; crafting, quests, and pvp, to name a few. When grouping requirements are eliminated from an MMO, you hasten the slow death of the game and water down it's core game systems.

For more info on socialization as a key pillar of game design, read this design article from UCLA. Here is an excerpt:

When designing any game, it is worthwhile to think about the game's social uses, and how the
system encourages or discourages socialization. For instance, almost every network has online
versions of classic games like poker and bridge. And in almost every case, those games have failed to attract much useage.

Solo content is always easier, but does not encourage socialization, which in turn is less enjoyable to the player. MMO's are successful when they promote socialization through groups and other systems.

So you do actually wanna force me to group so YOU have someone to play with. Did I conclude that correctly?

Because if that's not the reason, maybe lrt me decide how I can enjoy this game most? Also I didn't ask for less group content.

ashl3y44 · December 2017

nnargun wrote: »

StormIV wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

I don't want harder vMA, I want more vMA. There is no endgame content designed for solo play apart from that one arena. Hence all the frustration about the easy-as-cake overland imo. Playing an online game should give me the option to group whenever I want but not force me to.

I logged into respectfully, yet vehemently disagree with this solo argument. Grouping is precisely what makes MMORPG's (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) unique. The social element of group content (dungeons and trials) as a game system is integral to the game and it is what makes the content in MMOs more challenging than any other PvE genre. You as the player have the option to complete a myriad of solo content; crafting, quests, and pvp, to name a few. When grouping requirements are eliminated from an MMO, you hasten the slow death of the game and water down it's core game systems.

For more info on socialization as a key pillar of game design, read this design article from UCLA. Here is an excerpt:

When designing any game, it is worthwhile to think about the game's social uses, and how the
system encourages or discourages socialization. For instance, almost every network has online
versions of classic games like poker and bridge. And in almost every case, those games have failed to attract much useage.

Solo content is always easier, but does not encourage socialization, which in turn is less enjoyable to the player. MMO's are successful when they promote socialization through groups and other systems.

So you do actually wanna force me to group so YOU have someone to play with. Did I conclude that correctly?

Because if that's not the reason, maybe lrt me decide how I can enjoy this game most? Also I didn't ask for less group content.

He’s not saying that you need to group with anyone. Just that the whole point to MMO is to promote group play. So they will always be adding more group content because without it the game would die. You can play however you want to. But Zos will cater to the majority and most of the players want group content because that’s just how MMOs work. Solo content will always be easier then group content so that people that don’t want to group can complete it. I just wouldn’t hold out hope for more solo content other then overland DLCS

nnargun · December 2017

ashl3y44 wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

StormIV wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

I don't want harder vMA, I want more vMA. There is no endgame content designed for solo play apart from that one arena. Hence all the frustration about the easy-as-cake overland imo. Playing an online game should give me the option to group whenever I want but not force me to.

I logged into respectfully, yet vehemently disagree with this solo argument. Grouping is precisely what makes MMORPG's (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) unique. The social element of group content (dungeons and trials) as a game system is integral to the game and it is what makes the content in MMOs more challenging than any other PvE genre. You as the player have the option to complete a myriad of solo content; crafting, quests, and pvp, to name a few. When grouping requirements are eliminated from an MMO, you hasten the slow death of the game and water down it's core game systems.

For more info on socialization as a key pillar of game design, read this design article from UCLA. Here is an excerpt:

When designing any game, it is worthwhile to think about the game's social uses, and how the
system encourages or discourages socialization. For instance, almost every network has online
versions of classic games like poker and bridge. And in almost every case, those games have failed to attract much useage.

Solo content is always easier, but does not encourage socialization, which in turn is less enjoyable to the player. MMO's are successful when they promote socialization through groups and other systems.

So you do actually wanna force me to group so YOU have someone to play with. Did I conclude that correctly?

Because if that's not the reason, maybe lrt me decide how I can enjoy this game most? Also I didn't ask for less group content.

He’s not saying that you need to group with anyone. Just that the whole point to MMO is to promote group play. So they will always be adding more group content because without it the game would die. You can play however you want to. But Zos will cater to the majority and most of the players want group content because that’s just how MMOs work. Solo content will always be easier then group content so that people that don’t want to group can complete it. I just wouldn’t hold out hope for more solo content other then overland DLCS

If it's a matter of resources on ZOS side there is nothing that can be done. I agree group content has priority. And again, I didn't ask for less group content. Not even for less group content to be released in the future. I just want more solo content.

Silver_Strider · December 2017

Once an hour, have a world event, called the Greater Dolmen, spawn in a random zone that is extremely difficult to do (I'm talking enemies that are pre-nerf IC sewer boss difficult, with a Super Boss enemy at the end with its own mechanics and an enrage timer)

At the end you are rewarded with new armor sets.

Coldharbour's Fire
Max magic
Spell Crit
Spell Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to be engulfed in the fires of Coldharbour, damaging nearby enemies for X fire damage and increasing your Spell Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD.

Coldharbour's Miasma
Max Stamina
Weapon Crit
Physical Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to release a poisonous miasma, damaging enemies in front of you for X poison damage over 15 seconds and increasing Weapon Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD

Coldharbour's Domain
Max Health
Physical + Spell resistance
Healing received
15% on being damaged to summon an Altar of Domination, granting Major Protection for you and your allies within an 8m radius, reducing your damage taken by 30% and dealing X oblivion damage over 10 seconds. 45 second CD.

Rainraven · December 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Power Creep. Instead of continually annoying ZOS for a harder overland, harder VMA, harder trials, harder everything.. why not ask for less power creep?
At launch, going off road was a serious time investment in killing even a single NPC, much less a mob. Mudcrabs could kill you easily (not joking). Leather sold for 25k per 100 stack - because it was so hard to obtain. (also, fewer dungeon mobs dropped leather) What has changed? More powerful sets, CP bonuses (and 690 points to put in them), more powerful traits and skills.

Yes, the overland difficulty has dropped in most zones due to One Tamriel, this was a good change. New players can progress without dying 10 times per quest. Farming is easier so more players (and bots) gather, which means lower prices at the traders. It's also possible for a CP690 player to help their friend at lvl 20. (on a max level tank just blocking attacks could kill lvl 20 mobs)

The issue of feeling overpowered isn't just because the content is too easy, it's because you, the player, ARE overpowered. Granted, CP bonuses allow for more varied builds, across more difficulty levels. Vet trials tanks would never have any stamina without 100 in Shadow Ward. Stam sorcs would revert to their pre-CP status of "hahahha, lol".

I apreciate the work ZOS continues to do on balance, though, maybe stop tweaking PvE to fix PvP. (*cough* upcoming stam nerf *cough*) Overall, I would prefer to be less powerful. It is more challening to kill a boss with 12 million health when your group DPS is 75k? Yes, but less DPS can make trials bosses into mechanics fights, not simple DPS burns. (oversimplfied, but so many groups ignore mechanics and get better results with just burning the boss, which is boring to me as a tank) It also would make overland much more difficult, BUT, with the current scaling algorithms, I don't think new players would suffer as much as we think. It could even force bots away from XP farming, if 1 sorc with lightning form and 2 pets can't kill 4 mobs pulled together.

Just a thought on WHY there is discussion on overland difficulty. Remember, ESO is an MMORPG. Props to ZOS for managing a solo experience in a multiplayer environment, and even providing super difficult content for 10% of players who want that challenge.

I agree this is the actual problem. I also think it's going to get a lot less discussion than all the Make Stuff Harder threads do because "This flat bonus to all my stats I got from just playing long enough might be a little much," doesn't stroke the ego like, "I am far too mighty for your piddling overworld" does.

Every time people bring up the problems of the CP system, there's a predictable level of freak-out that it might be nerfed. For every guy who has the Sads because wolves are too easy to kill, there are many more who want that power creep to keep going up.

StormIV · December 2017

While yes I agree content is too easy, especially in most vet dungeons, I also understand that humans will always take the easiest route forward. An easy solution for people who want more difficulty is unequip some armor! Seriously. That's a debuff. But no one will do it because this is an MMO, part of the fun is comparing ourselves to others and the competition surrounding that. No one handicaps themselves on purpose in an MMO unless there are unique rewards for doing so.

code65536 · December 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Once an hour, have a world event, called the Greater Dolmen, spawn in a random zone that is extremely difficult to do (I'm talking enemies that are pre-nerf IC sewer boss difficult, with a Super Boss enemy at the end with its own mechanics and an enrage timer)

At the end you are rewarded with new armor sets.

Coldharbour's Fire
Max magic
Spell Crit
Spell Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to be engulfed in the fires of Coldharbour, damaging nearby enemies for X fire damage and increasing your Spell Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD.

Coldharbour's Miasma
Max Stamina
Weapon Crit
Physical Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to release a poisonous miasma, damaging enemies in front of you for X poison damage over 15 seconds and increasing Weapon Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD

Coldharbour's Domain
Max Health
Physical + Spell resistance
Healing received
15% on being damaged to summon an Altar of Domination, granting Major Protection for you and your allies within an 8m radius, reducing your damage taken by 30% and dealing X oblivion damage over 10 seconds. 45 second CD.

And those original IC sewer bosses were easy-peasy if you had a zerg to mow them down.

There is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. Because private instances are controlled. You can design content for a specific number of people, and design interesting mechanics. In the open world, that's just not possible. Make a boss that is meant to be difficult for 4 people, and it becomes a faceroll when a WB farming group zergs through. Make a boss so hard that it would challenge a WB zerg, and then it becomes impossible for small groups. And it's not like you can scale the difficulty dynamically--what if you start a WB fight solo, and then a zerg shows up halfway?

And it's not just a matter of difficulty, but mechanics, too. Without mechanics, boss fights are boring. They have more health. They do more damage. Oooooookay. Truly challenging content will have interesting mechanics. But, again, how do you design mechanics when you don't know what kind of people will even be facing the boss? Will there be a tank? Two tanks? Zero tanks? Can you design the mechanics to assume the presence of a healer? Or two healers? The mechanics of existing world bosses are all pretty simple and dull and doesn't go beyond "here's a lot of incoming damage--in a whole new form!".

It is simply impractical to design meaningful difficult content for the overland, because you can't control things.

And yes, there absolutely will be WB zergs, just as there have been WB zergs roaming Wrothgar for the past two years. If you make the WB rewarding, people will show up there in droves. Because most people just want the reward, difficulty be damned. And even if they do want it to be difficult, why should they be the one to not show up at the WB? It's everyone else's fault that there's a zerg there.

Again, there is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. All this talk about overland difficulty ignores the reality that you can't really design meaningful difficult content without a controlled environment for that content to exist in. So you can tune the difficulty for a specific group size. So you more latitude to design mechanics knowing what kind of group composition to expect.

Yes, this game needs difficult content. Which is why we're getting two more 4-man dungeons next quarter. Not some open-world nonsense.

Destruent · December 2017

Problem with overland content?
Even without CP, Gear Skills and whatsoever you can't die if you don't want to, just don't pull all mobs at once and you can slowly kill them with heavy attacks. Enemys should (or even HAVE TO) be a treat if you are not aware of your enemys/don't use gear, skills etc...

this is NOT a problem of power creep, CP-system or whatsoever...a newly created character is overpowered compared to the overland-mobs.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Personally, I'd like less power creep if it ment more engaging design and less ***' nerfs.

Silver_Strider · December 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Once an hour, have a world event, called the Greater Dolmen, spawn in a random zone that is extremely difficult to do (I'm talking enemies that are pre-nerf IC sewer boss difficult, with a Super Boss enemy at the end with its own mechanics and an enrage timer)

At the end you are rewarded with new armor sets.

Coldharbour's Fire
Max magic
Spell Crit
Spell Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to be engulfed in the fires of Coldharbour, damaging nearby enemies for X fire damage and increasing your Spell Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD.

Coldharbour's Miasma
Max Stamina
Weapon Crit
Physical Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to release a poisonous miasma, damaging enemies in front of you for X poison damage over 15 seconds and increasing Weapon Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD

Coldharbour's Domain
Max Health
Physical + Spell resistance
Healing received
15% on being damaged to summon an Altar of Domination, granting Major Protection for you and your allies within an 8m radius, reducing your damage taken by 30% and dealing X oblivion damage over 10 seconds. 45 second CD.

And those original IC sewer bosses were easy-peasy if you had a zerg to mow them down.

There is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. Because private instances are controlled. You can design content for a specific number of people, and design interesting mechanics. In the open world, that's just not possible. Make a boss that is meant to be difficult for 4 people, and it becomes a faceroll when a WB farming group zergs through. Make a boss so hard that it would challenge a WB zerg, and then it becomes impossible for small groups. And it's not like you can scale the difficulty dynamically--what if you start a WB fight solo, and then a zerg shows up halfway?

And it's not just a matter of difficulty, but mechanics, too. Without mechanics, boss fights are boring. They have more health. They do more damage. Oooooookay. Truly challenging content will have interesting mechanics. But, again, how do you design mechanics when you don't know what kind of people will even be facing the boss? Will there be a tank? Two tanks? Zero tanks? Can you design the mechanics to assume the presence of a healer? Or two healers? The mechanics of existing world bosses are all pretty simple and dull and doesn't go beyond "here's a lot of incoming damage--in a whole new form!".

It is simply impractical to design meaningful difficult content for the overland, because you can't control things.

And yes, there absolutely will be WB zergs, just as there have been WB zergs roaming Wrothgar for the past two years. If you make the WB rewarding, people will show up there in droves. Because most people just want the reward, difficulty be damned. And even if they do want it to be difficult, why should they be the one to not show up at the WB? It's everyone else's fault that there's a zerg there.

Again, there is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. All this talk about overland difficulty ignores the reality that you can't really design meaningful difficult content without a controlled environment for that content to exist in. So you can tune the difficulty for a specific group size. So you more latitude to design mechanics knowing what kind of group composition to expect.

Yes, this game needs difficult content. Which is why we're getting two more 4-man dungeons next quarter. Not some open-world nonsense.

Not everything in the open world needs to be clearable by a small group of people. Some MMOs have super bosses that literally require a large portion of the server's population to take down. Look at the Odin fate in FFXIV as an example.

[vid]

https://youtu.be/cQXGMw5n1k8[/vid]

[vid

https://youtu.be/os--S4nf43M[/vid]

If something is designed to require numerous people to complete then that's that. Why does everything need to be manageable for a small group?

Apache_Kid · December 2017

Why would you or anyone want to be less powerful? That means that all dungeons and trials will take longer to complete and this means less loot and less overall runs completed. Maybe you want to be less powerful but many of us don't.

If you want to be less powerful do your content with no set gear or just don't distribute your CP. There's no reason for ZoS to make changes or nerfs to all players if you or a few others want to be less powerful because you can just decide to use lower level gear without affecting us and making the rest of us weaker.

The whole game is based upon grinding to level up to get the most CP and the best gear to get the highest damage possible to clear veteran content. It's hard enough for groups to clear some of the content in this game like vAS and you actually want to make everyone less powerful? Nah miss me with that. We were already nerfed into oblivion with Morrowind. If you want the game to be more difficult then just play naked.

ToRelax · December 2017

Power Creep is terrible, but that doesn't mean Overland content, delves, public dungeons, solo quests or what have you would be challenging without it.

code65536 · December 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

If something is designed to require numerous people to complete then that's that. Why does everything need to be manageable for a small group?

If you design a boss so hard that it requires 12 people to kill (let's face it, with 24 people, you'll be playing a slideshow), then... why not enforce that number and make it a trial? That's exactly what Asylum is, BTW--jump in, fight a boss, no trash to fuss over.

And on PC/EU, I see zone PUGs forming up to do nAS all the time.

Plus, there is still a pretty substantial difference between 12 or 24 people showing up, BTW, and what would be challenging for a 12-person group could be pretty easy for a 24-person group. Even with something like vAS HM, if you had just 4 extra DPS show up, it would make the fight so much easier.

Asardes · December 2017

Make overland as hard as Vault of Umbrage and Rink of Frozen Blood.

ParaNostram · December 2017

I mean even if just -some- zones were hard I'd be happy. Like if DLC zones were at the level of Craglorn today, I would be content with that. But no it's always going to be soooooo DULL!

Why else do you think I PvP? I want to fight things that can fight back. When I PvE it's usually just soloing group content because when it's a challenge I actually end up having fun! Funny how that works.

ParaNostram · December 2017

But I was talking with new players, IRL friends who just started playing. For them, any difficulty came from how complicated some systems were to learn, not the gameplay itself. I asked them a simple question, "how do you feel about this game's difficulty level as a player leveling up for the first time?" and the answers were consistently describing most of the game as rather easy but the systems such as crafting challenging to learn.

tplink3r1 · December 2017

"why not ask for less power creep?"
Because i like character progression and grinding, so power creep is a good thing.

Dawnblade · December 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

Power Creep is terrible, but that doesn't mean Overland content, delves, public dungeons, solo quests or what have you would be challenging without it.

There are two ways that content becomes less challenging, power creep and player experience level.

Game developers can control power creep, but they can't control player experience levels.

They can create new experiences, but even then, they are limited in how much they can challenge a player who has mastered the basics of the game.

No game is ever going to be as challenging as it was the first time you played it, no matter how insane they tune it, as part of the initial challenge comes from learning and mastering the basics of the game itself (for example in ESO, learning how to dodge roll, block, interrupt, bar swap, etc).

Jade1986 · December 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Once an hour, have a world event, called the Greater Dolmen, spawn in a random zone that is extremely difficult to do (I'm talking enemies that are pre-nerf IC sewer boss difficult, with a Super Boss enemy at the end with its own mechanics and an enrage timer)

At the end you are rewarded with new armor sets.

Coldharbour's Fire
Max magic
Spell Crit
Spell Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to be engulfed in the fires of Coldharbour, damaging nearby enemies for X fire damage and increasing your Spell Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD.

Coldharbour's Miasma
Max Stamina
Weapon Crit
Physical Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to release a poisonous miasma, damaging enemies in front of you for X poison damage over 15 seconds and increasing Weapon Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD

Coldharbour's Domain
Max Health
Physical + Spell resistance
Healing received
15% on being damaged to summon an Altar of Domination, granting Major Protection for you and your allies within an 8m radius, reducing your damage taken by 30% and dealing X oblivion damage over 10 seconds. 45 second CD.

I would kill for roaming world bosses and super bosses like that. I remember when the world bosses came out for orsinium. THEY WERE ACTUALLY difficult and you needed a group to do them. Now I can just go in as my tank and face tank them to death.

Jade1986 · December 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Once an hour, have a world event, called the Greater Dolmen, spawn in a random zone that is extremely difficult to do (I'm talking enemies that are pre-nerf IC sewer boss difficult, with a Super Boss enemy at the end with its own mechanics and an enrage timer)

At the end you are rewarded with new armor sets.

Coldharbour's Fire
Max magic
Spell Crit
Spell Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to be engulfed in the fires of Coldharbour, damaging nearby enemies for X fire damage and increasing your Spell Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD.

Coldharbour's Miasma
Max Stamina
Weapon Crit
Physical Penetration
10% chance on damaging an enemy to release a poisonous miasma, damaging enemies in front of you for X poison damage over 15 seconds and increasing Weapon Damage for 15 seconds. 15 second CD

Coldharbour's Domain
Max Health
Physical + Spell resistance
Healing received
15% on being damaged to summon an Altar of Domination, granting Major Protection for you and your allies within an 8m radius, reducing your damage taken by 30% and dealing X oblivion damage over 10 seconds. 45 second CD.

And those original IC sewer bosses were easy-peasy if you had a zerg to mow them down.

There is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. Because private instances are controlled. You can design content for a specific number of people, and design interesting mechanics. In the open world, that's just not possible. Make a boss that is meant to be difficult for 4 people, and it becomes a faceroll when a WB farming group zergs through. Make a boss so hard that it would challenge a WB zerg, and then it becomes impossible for small groups. And it's not like you can scale the difficulty dynamically--what if you start a WB fight solo, and then a zerg shows up halfway?

And it's not just a matter of difficulty, but mechanics, too. Without mechanics, boss fights are boring. They have more health. They do more damage. Oooooookay. Truly challenging content will have interesting mechanics. But, again, how do you design mechanics when you don't know what kind of people will even be facing the boss? Will there be a tank? Two tanks? Zero tanks? Can you design the mechanics to assume the presence of a healer? Or two healers? The mechanics of existing world bosses are all pretty simple and dull and doesn't go beyond "here's a lot of incoming damage--in a whole new form!".

It is simply impractical to design meaningful difficult content for the overland, because you can't control things.

And yes, there absolutely will be WB zergs, just as there have been WB zergs roaming Wrothgar for the past two years. If you make the WB rewarding, people will show up there in droves. Because most people just want the reward, difficulty be damned. And even if they do want it to be difficult, why should they be the one to not show up at the WB? It's everyone else's fault that there's a zerg there.

Again, there is a reason why difficult content in this game is restricted to private instances. All this talk about overland difficulty ignores the reality that you can't really design meaningful difficult content without a controlled environment for that content to exist in. So you can tune the difficulty for a specific group size. So you more latitude to design mechanics knowing what kind of group composition to expect.

Yes, this game needs difficult content. Which is why we're getting two more 4-man dungeons next quarter. Not some open-world nonsense.

Not everything in the open world needs to be clearable by a small group of people. Some MMOs have super bosses that literally require a large portion of the server's population to take down. Look at the Odin fate in FFXIV as an example.

[vid]https://youtu.be/cQXGMw5n1k8[/vid]

[vidhttps://youtu.be/os--S4nf43M[/vid]

If something is designed to require numerous people to complete then that's that. Why does everything need to be manageable for a small group?

Jesus, how can anyone enjoy a game with ALL THOSE NAMES BLOCKING EVERYTHIN?!