Basically Stamina Build Necromancer....
Stammancer !!!!
With many Magica class abilities with Stamina morphs....
omg make it happen !!!!
So, what do you think "holy" means then?Not really, what makes an Aedra and Daedra is not their alignment. It's one group sacrificed their power tomake Nirn while the other refused.
True enough. And some of the divines are also not quite "good" themselves, and more like neutral... heck, take the "good religion" of any time in history and you will find them being at best shades of grey... and loudly proclaiming the other religions "bad" just because they are not of their faith.Meridia and Azura aren't technically evil, they are more neutral if anything. And if you go off lore, the "good" daedra are Maphala, Boethiah, and Azura.
Look forward in the lore, you mean?So, yeah, neither is holy magick vs unholy. Also, if you look back into lore. Healing spells where also in the same school as diseases. Because there isn't really a "holy" school of magic, it's life magic both the giving and taking.
notimetocare wrote: »
Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
TheShadowScout wrote: »...but there are no "death knights" in tamriel.stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »So someone mentioned "Death Knight"
The original concept after all was a knight who had been cursed by the gods for breaking their vows... and tamriels gods are not -that- narrow minded about such things, while neither are the knightly orders that strict to give rise to such legends.
The general concept of a heavily armored undead warrior is still valid enough of course. After all, originally the "Death Knight" was the AD&D warrior equivalent to the mage-ish Lich as high-power undead, so while applying an "undead" template to a ESO magica character/NPC would result in a lich, applying the same template on a warrior might yield something similar to the classic death knight... which in tamriel, could happen in a great many ways. Ayleid magics, worm cult experiments, daedric deals or even merely a careless worded wish near one of clavicus viles shrines... any undead in heavy armor with elite level powers might fill the requirements.You sure about this?notimetocare wrote: »Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
Aedric magic?
Daedric magic?
That's holy and unholy right there... and the siphoning line does have a stronmg "blood magic" touch, as do some reachmen rituals...
Where you -are- correct is that none of those are exclusively tied to any "death knight" legends in TES lore.
Not quite.Nemesis7884 wrote: »i think you focus to much on what death knights are in other games - woodelfes or dwarves in elder scrolls are also not what they are in other games.... death knight can simply mean a necromancer in heavy armor
Basically Stamina Build Necromancer....
Stammancer !!!!
With many Magica class abilities with Stamina morphs....
omg make it happen !!!!
Knowing the how the other classes are, a Necromancer would have 98% Magic skills with only like, 2 Stam morphs. *coughCOUGHDragonknightCOUGHSorcerercough*
TheShadowScout wrote: »So, what do you think "holy" means then?Not really, what makes an Aedra and Daedra is not their alignment. It's one group sacrificed their power tomake Nirn while the other refused.
Good alignment?
Not so... it is more a matter of perception I would say.
The aedra sacrificed their power to create the world of nirn.
They -created- it.
That pretty much makes them the "gods" (Well, or at least "divines") of nirn... and those on the other side the "demons" by default. So the people -living- in the world they created might call them "holy", and all that took the other side "unholy", except those dirty heretic cultists who worshop the daedra for their own reasons and call them "holy" and... actually I am not sure what cultists would call unholy...
but most templars would agree they need to be purged by sword and fire!
Now, look at the magic itself... we have one "Aedric Spear" line, all full of purifying light and such, and one "Daedric Summoning" line, all full of demon calling and dark magics... of course, one could argue those being mere cosmetics, but then... is that not always the case? Especially since "holy" and "unholy" often is entirely dependent on the point of view?
I say, a mere difference in fluff does not change the nature something is derived from... and while you are quite right that is it not -exactly- "holy & unholy" it -IS- the elder scrolls version of the same basic concept...True enough. And some of the divines are also not quite "good" themselves, and more like neutral... heck, take the "good religion" of any time in history and you will find them being at best shades of grey... and loudly proclaiming the other religions "bad" just because they are not of their faith.Meridia and Azura aren't technically evil, they are more neutral if anything. And if you go off lore, the "good" daedra are Maphala, Boethiah, and Azura.
But again, everyone chooses their own heaven. And their own hell.
What is holy to some is heathen to others, what is despised as unholy by some is worthy of worship to others.
That the elder scrolls go for more grey areas then the black/white alignment split always made them one of my favorites anyhow...Look forward in the lore, you mean?So, yeah, neither is holy magick vs unholy. Also, if you look back into lore. Healing spells where also in the same school as diseases. Because there isn't really a "holy" school of magic, it's life magic both the giving and taking.
In ESO, before the schools of magic were established, it seems that is not the case yet... here we have several healing effect spells scattered all over the place, from nightblades lifesteal to the more clasical "cleric healing" restoring light, from green dragon blood to the wardens plant-based healing effects, from vigor to a sorcerors dark deals...
But the general "archetype" of "holy" magic is pretty well domain of the ESO templar... healing and purifying and golden light, with some light-spears thrown in (likely because light-swords are a different franchise).
And the general archetype portraced by daedric influences in magic... summonings, dark deals, curses and such... are more often that of daemons. Some in the ancient greek sense of the world, some in the more recent christianity-influenced sense.
So in the end... Aedra are the next best thing to "holy" and Deadra the next best equivalent to "unholy" in the elder scrolls lore, even if the lore is not -quite- that "black and white".
And Lord Soth is still the prime measure for the whole concept!SirCritical wrote: »The only Death Knight I knew was living on Krynn...

You -are- aware that the other TES games are set eight hundred years and more -after- ESO?Sorry, but no. You are trying to push aside established lore of games that came out prior to ESO as being irrelivent then pushing in ESO's set up as being current lore. All the spells you mentioned fall into either restoration magicks or just don't exist till ESO.
No. But the "aedric" part of it is a pretty strong giveaway. Aedra. You know them, right? Also generally known as "The Divines", at least the eight big ones of them? You don't see any indication of them being the tamriel-ic equivalewnt of "holy"? How about all those shrines and temples in their name? Still nothing? How about you play the bossfight against the very much unholy-ish Molag Bal, and tell us just who lends you that bit of golden power that lets you make it?Prime example is Aedric Spear line. Just because it has a flashy gold icon doesn't make it a holy spell. Just because funnel health doesn't have a gold icon does it make it an unholy spell.
But they did -not- create -Nirn-, did they now?Daedra can create as well.... so if that's what you are basing your "holy divine" vs "demons" on it's very much skewed in the wrong direction.
Agreed. I made that point as well. One of the things I do like about TES lore.TES lore mechanics are never black and white.
That is entirely dependant on your point of view.What makes a spell holy or unholy isn't the school, or the source of the spell, it's in how it is used. Also, if you want to get down to it. Magic doesn't even come from the "divines" it comes from Aetherius. So it can't have a "holy" or "unholy" origin.
Again I ask... what do you think "holy" and "unholy" IS???So with that, again. There is no such thing as "holy" or "unholy" magic. There is only that which is agreed upon being immoral and illegal, like Necromancy. Which is also a grey area since it's not outlawed by all. Mainly the Imperial College of Magic.
TheShadowScout wrote: »...but there are no "death knights" in tamriel.stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »So someone mentioned "Death Knight"
The original concept after all was a knight who had been cursed by the gods for breaking their vows... and tamriels gods are not -that- narrow minded about such things, while neither are the knightly orders that strict to give rise to such legends.
The general concept of a heavily armored undead warrior is still valid enough of course. After all, originally the "Death Knight" was the AD&D warrior equivalent to the mage-ish Lich as high-power undead, so while applying an "undead" template to a ESO magica character/NPC would result in a lich, applying the same template on a warrior might yield something similar to the classic death knight... which in tamriel, could happen in a great many ways. Ayleid magics, worm cult experiments, daedric deals or even merely a careless worded wish near one of clavicus viles shrines... any undead in heavy armor with elite level powers might fill the requirements.You sure about this?notimetocare wrote: »Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
Aedric magic?
Daedric magic?
That's holy and unholy right there... and the siphoning line does have a stronmg "blood magic" touch, as do some reachmen rituals...
Where you -are- correct is that none of those are exclusively tied to any "death knight" legends in TES lore.
Basically Stamina Build Necromancer....
Stammancer !!!!
With many Magica class abilities with Stamina morphs....
omg make it happen !!!!
Knowing the how the other classes are, a Necromancer would have 98% Magic skills with only like, 2 Stam morphs. *coughCOUGHDragonknightCOUGHSorcerercough*
TheShadowScout wrote: »Not quite.Nemesis7884 wrote: »i think you focus to much on what death knights are in other games - woodelfes or dwarves in elder scrolls are also not what they are in other games.... death knight can simply mean a necromancer in heavy armor
The general concept of "death knight" usualkly ends up with a strong emphasis on melee combat skills, unlike the "heavy armor necromancer". Since "necromancer" kinda implies a magica claracter...
Like I mentioned, they are the stamina equivalent to the magica lich as "high danger undead". Usually with some hefty "curses" magic attacks thrown in for good measure. And an undead steed. And more often then not, a legion of undead in their wake.
I suppode in ESO, the closest lorewise equivalent might be a fighty stamina dragon priest (as opposed to the usually more magically inclined ones we get) as "bossfight" for a draugr mound... maybe if they train a bit...
notimetocare wrote: »Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line
Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
...the "Death knight" archetype -is- quite narrow.Nemesis7884 wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »Not quite.Nemesis7884 wrote: »i think you focus to much on what death knights are in other games - woodelfes or dwarves in elder scrolls are also not what they are in other games.... death knight can simply mean a necromancer in heavy armor
The general concept of "death knight" usualkly ends up with a strong emphasis on melee combat skills, unlike the "heavy armor necromancer". Since "necromancer" kinda implies a magica claracter...
Like I mentioned, they are the stamina equivalent to the magica lich as "high danger undead". Usually with some hefty "curses" magic attacks thrown in for good measure. And an undead steed. And more often then not, a legion of undead in their wake.
I suppode in ESO, the closest lorewise equivalent might be a fighty stamina dragon priest (as opposed to the usually more magically inclined ones we get) as "bossfight" for a draugr mound... maybe if they train a bit...
again i think you are way to narrow - just make some magic melee focused, magicka drain life is from a distance and stamina is up close and personal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfqDYCL0sQI personally don't even know what's the worst, Dwemer motorcycle or playable necromancer/walking-dead-knight.
But I know that both are kind of deadline. When ESO reach that line I probably quit.
notimetocare wrote: »Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line
Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
Nightblades have a Siphoning tree dedicated to blood (soul/life force) magic, with the recent introduction of a healing spell that actually feeds on the caster's health.
Read the descriptions of the abilities in Templar's Restoring Light skill tree: "Channel the grace of the gods, healing you and nearby allies for [x] Health every 1 second for 4 seconds", "Focus your spiritual devotion, healing yourself and nearby allies for [x] Health.", "Exalt in the sacred light of the Aedra, cleansing up to 2 harmful effects from yourself immediately and healing you and nearby allies for [x] every 2 seconds for 12 seconds."
Plus, necromancy is a thing... just saying
That said, new class, please no... Last time they tried they made something that is just meh in PvE, but absolute cancer in PvP... please no.
notimetocare wrote: »Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line
Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
Nightblades have a Siphoning tree dedicated to blood (soul/life force) magic, with the recent introduction of a healing spell that actually feeds on the caster's health.
Read the descriptions of the abilities in Templar's Restoring Light skill tree: "Channel the grace of the gods, healing you and nearby allies for [x] Health every 1 second for 4 seconds", "Focus your spiritual devotion, healing yourself and nearby allies for [x] Health.", "Exalt in the sacred light of the Aedra, cleansing up to 2 harmful effects from yourself immediately and healing you and nearby allies for [x] every 2 seconds for 12 seconds."
Plus, necromancy is a thing... just saying
That said, new class, please no... Last time they tried they made something that is just meh in PvE, but absolute cancer in PvP... please no.
just because the class wasnt the best as their FIRST try inventing a new class into the game they suddenly need to stop ALL future class development ?
notimetocare wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line
Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES
Nightblades have a Siphoning tree dedicated to blood (soul/life force) magic, with the recent introduction of a healing spell that actually feeds on the caster's health.
Read the descriptions of the abilities in Templar's Restoring Light skill tree: "Channel the grace of the gods, healing you and nearby allies for [x] Health every 1 second for 4 seconds", "Focus your spiritual devotion, healing yourself and nearby allies for [x] Health.", "Exalt in the sacred light of the Aedra, cleansing up to 2 harmful effects from yourself immediately and healing you and nearby allies for [x] every 2 seconds for 12 seconds."
Plus, necromancy is a thing... just saying
That said, new class, please no... Last time they tried they made something that is just meh in PvE, but absolute cancer in PvP... please no.
Siphon is restoration. So is templar skill. ZoS has god awful, lore inappropriate tooltips. Bethesda lore > ZoS