So someone mentioned "Death Knight"

stewhead2ub17_ESO

So while up early this morning and perusing the forums, I saw in another stunted thread about a new class, someone mention a "Death Knight". Now I'm admittedly an altoholic and would love to see us get a "Necromancer" class but it got me to wondering:
1. How would a "Death Knight" type class be structured, i.e. what kind of skill lines would be prudent?
2. Does this fit into TES lore wise?
Thoughts? Theories? Speculations?

Gothrock

Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line

Zordrage

Basically Stamina Build Necromancer....

Stammancer !!!!

With many Magica class abilities with Stamina morphs....

omg make it happen !!!!

newtinmpls

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

2. Does this fit into TES lore wise?

No, but I'm having flashbacks to the AD&D "Monster Manual"

Nemesis7884

yeah stamina type of the necromancer...with more melee oriented morphs... would make sense, necromancer could have 3 skill lines

for example the magicka version could have a distance drain life whereas the stamina version is melee range with different effects - similar to the execute from night blade...

or the skill where bone hands grasp and hold you (some enemies are using that) - the magicka version could reduce enemy movement speed do whereas the stamina version could apply minor maim etc...

ValkynSketha

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/classes/death-knight

https://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Knight
Suffer well, for the lich king.

Zordrage

i want to tank with a 2h sword now.... thx OP look what you did....

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Zordrage wrote: »

i want to tank with a 2h sword now.... thx OP look what you did....

notimetocare

Gothrock wrote: »

Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line

Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES

Nemesis7884

notimetocare wrote: »

Gothrock wrote: »

Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line

Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES

well call the skill line black arts (damage); summoning/conjuring (support) and dark fervor (tank) or something....

Gothrock

notimetocare wrote: »

Gothrock wrote: »

Imo the only way to add "Death knight" is to combine it with necromancer, because there are no classes in ESO which are definetely "heavy armored knights". So death knight needs at least one light armor oriented skill line, but we already have dark magic sorcerer with debufs and blood magic caster nightblade with drain.
So the only concept i can imagine would be a copypaste from WOW:
1. Tanking skill line with self healing, maybe not blood magic healing (cause we have mNB) but some unholy healing
2. Some melee damage skill line, maybe some DOTs with magic/disease morphs
3. Necromancy / conjuring skill line

Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES

Lets call it "undeath" magic. We already have bone shield, necrotic orb, and mentioned above skeletal hands from the ground, - these are not the typical spells of dark or conjuring magic. Also i'm sure we can find a lot of similar spells casted by npc's in dungeons like CoH.
And btw there is A LOT of blood magic in ESO and Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim.

TheShadowScout

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

So someone mentioned "Death Knight"

...but there are no "death knights" in tamriel.
The original concept after all was a knight who had been cursed by the gods for breaking their vows... and tamriels gods are not -that- narrow minded about such things, while neither are the knightly orders that strict to give rise to such legends.

The general concept of a heavily armored undead warrior is still valid enough of course. After all, originally the "Death Knight" was the AD&D warrior equivalent to the mage-ish Lich as high-power undead, so while applying an "undead" template to a ESO magica character/NPC would result in a lich, applying the same template on a warrior might yield something similar to the classic death knight... which in tamriel, could happen in a great many ways. Ayleid magics, worm cult experiments, daedric deals or even merely a careless worded wish near one of clavicus viles shrines... any undead in heavy armor with elite level powers might fill the requirements.

notimetocare wrote: »

Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES

You sure about this?
Aedric magic?
Daedric magic?
That's holy and unholy right there... and the siphoning line does have a stronmg "blood magic" touch, as do some reachmen rituals...
Where you -are- correct is that none of those are exclusively tied to any "death knight" legends in TES lore.

Kel

Never understood the "we can't be necromancers because they are bad guys" and "They serve Molag Bal" arguments when we have playable vampires.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

Namely, this line here...

"Molag Bal is also the father of vampires, undead creatures who often practice and have a heightened affinity for necromancy, or work alongside necromancers.Vampirism is often understood to be a form of necromancy."

So, you could argue there is already a playable form of necromancy. It's not lore breaking to get them as a class, since we already have vampires. Not to name some quests that let you manipulate NPC choices or outright kill some. You don't necessarily have to choose to play as a "good guy" even without being a vampire.
Get out of here with that "lore breaking...bad guy stuff". How many times did you take a dialogue choice that ended up killing a NPC? And even if you didn't, you still had a choice to do so. Meaning, the game gives you the choice to be a "bad guy" already. Having a necromancer class isn't that big of a stretch.

This is also in lore...

"The debate over necromancy has been raging in magical circles for centuries. Advocates of the Dark Practice decry its censorship, lamenting the sacrifice of knowledge at the altar of public opinion. One argument they've been known to give is that attaining a proper and ethical understanding of necromancy is vital to best combat the menaces who have given the practice such an infamous reputation."

This is the lore "in" for playable necromancy right here....

So, again, it's not lore breaking. It fits into lore quite nicely. Just because there's one cult (It's called "The Worm Cult"...it doesn't represent all necromancers...)doesn't mean there isn't other necromancers out there willing to fight fire with fire, so to speak.

LordSemaj

Death Knight = Draugr Knight, complete with "Summon Wraith" skill

EvilAutoTech

Necromancy is lore friendly. Using black soul gems to capture the souls of people is necromancy.

However, do we really need another class that won't be balanced? Within days of any new class going live, there will be threads calling for nerfs and/or buffs because it won't be balanced against the other classes.

SelfTherapy

I don't know why everyone wants a new class already, zos needs to fix the game first before anything.. but I do indeed want something badass that can summon the undead.

Huyen

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

So while up early this morning and perusing the forums, I saw in another stunted thread about a new class, someone mention a "Death Knight". Now I'm admittedly an altoholic and would love to see us get a "Necromancer" class but it got me to wondering:
1. How would a "Death Knight" type class be structured, i.e. what kind of skill lines would be prudent?
2. Does this fit into TES lore wise?
Thoughts? Theories? Speculations?

My thoughts: oh hell no! It doesnt fit the lore in any way, and when WoW introduced them it broke the balance big time.

Zordrage

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I don't know why everyone wants a new class already, zos needs to fix the game first before anything.. but I do indeed want something badass that can summon the undead.

the people who make balance changes and Bug fixing usually are not the same people who design a new class.... just saying....

Zordrage

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

However, do we really need another class that won't be balanced? Within days of any new class going live, there will be threads calling for nerfs and/or buffs because it won't be balanced against the other classes.

And ? you cant avoid it it happens in all the mmos all the time...

devs should NOT stop adding content into the game because a nonexistent and unachievable dream called Balance....

Also devs are prety fast with changes i mean look where warden is right now ? it has nothing game breaking anymore really...

so i have no idea why people are affraid of this...

those people who place Balance above content Allready have the stuff in the game Like classes and sets they enjoy playing and fine with it and dont care that other players still dont have theirs.... like for me a necromancer class...

Adding more and more content never hurts a game... ONLY and ONLY if its done really badly.... but i can count that happening on the many mmos out there on my 1 hand....
.

Juju_beans

Death Knights in this thread and Monks in another thread.

Do you folks really want ESO to turn into Wow ?

Gothrock

Juju_beans wrote: »

Death Knights in this thread and Monks in another thread.

Do you folks really want ESO to turn into Wow ?

Sure, it would be nice to make ESO the best MMO in the world.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

1. Put 2H on DragonKnight
2. Slot Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow on bar, followed by Reverse Slice
3. Place Dragon Leap on bar
4. Were Werewolf Hide and something else for Damage
5. Go into PVP and not be very good
6. Kill experienced PVPers with ease
7. Acquire title of "Death Knight" because bodies hit the floor

BigBadVolk

Zordrage wrote: »

Basically Stamina Build Necromancer....

Stammancer !!!!

With many Magica class abilities with Stamina morphs....

omg make it happen !!!!

This exactly when I thinked about how could a death knight fit into ESO world this would be the only solution

dsalter

might not be canon, but from morrowind, to cyrodiil (oblivion) to skyrim, i'd focus on 2 handed, heavy armor, enchanting, illusion, conjuration and block to build up a propper viable setup for the kind of "deathknight" most would consider correct.

but truth is there have been no heavily armored necromancers in elder scrolls lore from what i remember but some do go 2 handed, hell some spellblades run 2 handed

edit : put conan instead of canon... dont ask

Xundiin

TheShadowScout wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

So someone mentioned "Death Knight"

...but there are no "death knights" in tamriel.
The original concept after all was a knight who had been cursed by the gods for breaking their vows... and tamriels gods are not -that- narrow minded about such things, while neither are the knightly orders that strict to give rise to such legends.

The general concept of a heavily armored undead warrior is still valid enough of course. After all, originally the "Death Knight" was the AD&D warrior equivalent to the mage-ish Lich as high-power undead, so while applying an "undead" template to a ESO magica character/NPC would result in a lich, applying the same template on a warrior might yield something similar to the classic death knight... which in tamriel, could happen in a great many ways. Ayleid magics, worm cult experiments, daedric deals or even merely a careless worded wish near one of clavicus viles shrines... any undead in heavy armor with elite level powers might fill the requirements.

notimetocare wrote: »

Blood magic, holy magic, and unholy magic are not concepts in TES

You sure about this?
Aedric magic?
Daedric magic?
That's holy and unholy right there... and the siphoning line does have a stronmg "blood magic" touch, as do some reachmen rituals...
Where you -are- correct is that none of those are exclusively tied to any "death knight" legends in TES lore.

Not really, what makes an Aedra and Daedra is not their alignment. It's one group sacrificed their power tomake Nirn while the other refused.

Meridia and Azura aren't technically evil, they are more neutral if anything. And if you go off lore, the "good" daedra are Maphala, Boethiah, and Azura.

So, yeah, neither is holy magick vs unholy. Also, if you look back into lore. Healing spells where also in the same school as diseases. Because there isn't really a "holy" school of magic, it's life magic both the giving and taking.

Waffennacht

Wouldn't a heavy armor mag NB using 2H fit this description?

May not be the most effective, but definitely Cool

Drachenfier

The Shadow Knight from EQ 1 and 2 (and the Dark Avenger from Lineage 2) are the greatest classes of any MMO ever made. I try to play my DK like one, but it just isn't the same

Also, I'm the one that mentioned Death Knight in that thread the OP was referencing, but Shadow Knight is really more what I was thinking of.

Zordrage

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wouldn't a heavy armor mag NB using 2H fit this description?

May not be the most effective, but definitely Cool

I tried it long ago...

its bad... and i mean really bad.....

LordSemaj

Drachenfier wrote: »

The Shadow Knight from EQ 1 and 2 (and the Dark Avenger from Lineage 2) are the greatest classes of any MMO ever made. I try to play my DK like one, but it just isn't the same

Also, I'm the one that mentioned Death Knight in that thread the OP was referencing, but Shadow Knight is really more what I was thinking of.

Or more recently, the Dark Knight in FFXIV. Which is easily the most fun class to tank with ever made while also being balanced and a top contender.

Morvane

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

So while up early this morning and perusing the forums, I saw in another stunted thread about a new class, someone mention a "Death Knight". Now I'm admittedly an altoholic and would love to see us get a "Necromancer" class but it got me to wondering:
1. How would a "Death Knight" type class be structured, i.e. what kind of skill lines would be prudent?
2. Does this fit into TES lore wise?
Thoughts? Theories? Speculations?

survived students of Nerineth

Bhaal5

Id like to see classes from other games too

-revenant (evil based fighter style class)
This may be your "anti templar/deathknight" style class focusing of debuffs
-mesmer (illusionist spell caster)
Maybe the answer to the nightblade permastealth/ambush spamers been able to project self imgages of them selfs giving false targets.