You need to tie entry to the Imperial City to Cyrodiil control

Iselin · December 2017

I get that when the IC was introduced DLC were a new thing and you wanted to give access to DLC content to anyone who had access to it at all levels and make it easy to go there.

By now you've seen the error of your ways at least in terms of DLC dungeon content and you stopped the silliness of dropping unsuspecting level 10 players into ICP, WGT, ROM, etc., by introducing much more reasonable level 45+ (and CP160+ for vet) requirements through the group finder.

I think it's about time you took another look at the Imperial City and use it to enhance Cyrodiil campaigns in the same way Dark Age of Camelot used Darkness Falls to motivate PVP participation.

For those of you who didn't play DAoC, Darkness Falls was a premium open world dungeon with hard PVE content and good loot rewards. Access to it was restricted to one Realm (alliance) at a time after meeting some PVP control objectives. There was PVP in there mostly when there was a change of ownership with any one from the "wrong" alliance that died in there not being able to respawn in DF. "Evicting" the previous owners was a fun activity that happened on ownership change and after that, aside from a few stealthers who managed to hide and had to be killed one by one eventually, DF became a relatively safe PVE space.

That's the way our IC should work. Not only would it give PVPers another reason to work together in Cyrodiil to gain entry, it provided PVErs with a great place to level and grind. It also obviously created a co-dependence between PVErs and PVPers since they both wanted the same thing.

So how about it @ZOS_MattFiror? I know you remember how well DF worked in DAoC as a community building tool. Isn't it about time you took another look at IC entry requirements and make a positive change for both PVPers and PVErs?

Thogard · December 2017

It used to be like that.

was terrible.

DAoC also made DF available to all three realms after the novelty wore off.

Buffler · December 2017

No way!

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2017

I seem to recall there WAS at one point a campaign whose access to IC was restricted based on who owned certain keeps. They dropped it quite a while back.

Iselin · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

It used to be like that.

was terrible.

DAoC also made DF available to all three realms after the novelty wore off.

DAoC made a lot of changes for the worse in its attempt to WOWify itself and just like in SWG, the players abandoned it.

I have to wonder also... just how many players, especially PVE players, make going to IC as it is currently implemented a part of their regular game play?

ZOS has the metrics and I'm willing to bet that the IC is probably the least used space in the game.

Thogard · December 2017

Iselin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

It used to be like that.

was terrible.

DAoC also made DF available to all three realms after the novelty wore off.

DAoC made a lot of changes for the worse in its attempt to WOWify itself and just like in SWG, the players abandoned it.

I have to wonder also... just how many players, especially PVE players, make going to IC as it is currently implemented a part of their regular game play?

ZOS has the metrics and I'm willing to bet that the IC is probably the least used space in the game.

The fewer people in IC the better. Those apothecary satchels are how pvp players can afford our potions.

Rainraven · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

It used to be like that.

was terrible.

^ What he said. It sucked.

I'm not really sure what problem you're trying to address here. "Give PVPers a reason to work together" sounds like "force people in my faction to do what I want them to do instead of go play hide and seek in IC." That's not going to fix Cyrodiil, or make anybody in your faction want to do anything they don't already want to do.

And PVE is full of places to level and grind. They don't need the ONLY ONE that's PVP enabled to be a roped-off my-guys-only safe zone.

Silver_Strider · December 2017

I believe it was originally designed that you had to own all your home keeps before being able to access IC but the beta testers outright hated it so ZOS retracted that requirement and I believe it was for the better.

I imagine IC wouldn't have sold all that well if the actual city was locked off unless your alliance was actually doing well that day and IC already had a s*** ton of problem on its onset without that requirement being shoehorned in as well.

The_Brosteen · December 2017

I remember ganking people trying to go into the sewers back when this was a thing and imperial city was more popular. Good times, good times.

Mauin · December 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I seem to recall there WAS at one point a campaign whose access to IC was restricted based on who owned certain keeps. They dropped it quite a while back.

Wasn't that Axe of Belharza?

All I remember of it was that the campaign was dead most of the time. One faction had control over the entire map, since people preferred the other campaigns that were available. I went in a few times and there was basically nothing to do. Couldn't go into IC since it was locked, and couldn't do any PvP since there was almost nobody there.

Returning the locked IC access in a campaign would probably just result in the same thing again. Axe died ages ago. It's probably best to leave it dead.

Judas Helviaryn · December 2017

I don't particularly care for catering and pandering to the lovely overworld PVP community just to enjoy my own slice of heaven in the IC.

No deal.

Sotha_Sil · December 2017

Too late anyway. Who cares about IC ?

redspecter23 · December 2017

Sounds like the OP plays Ebonheart Pact. They seem to have twice the numbers of other factions at any given time and can roll over the map on a whim. As a longtime DC player, I'm quite happy that access isn't tied to the map at all. It would be horrible spending hours flipping keeps just to get into IC if I've only got a few hours to play.

If anything, IC should become a completely separate entity, completely severed from Cyrodiil. That way it won't effect population numbers on the overland as those down below have no impact on Cyrodiil to begin with.

Iselin · December 2017

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Too late anyway. Who cares about IC ?

Exactly. IC is niche and hardly used as it now is. Not to mention that the game does absolutely nothing these days to get PVErs to have a reason to go to Cyrodiil.

But hey it sounds like everyone just loves the fact that PVP and PVE are totally separate communities. God forbid that anyone try to bring them together working on a mutually beneficial goal.

I must have forgotten for a minute that no one cares about community goals any more. Must have had a 15 year old flashback there.

Taysa · December 2017

PvPers don't give a rat's behind about IC and PvE'ers aren't going to want to participate in PvP in order to gain entry to a sub-par leveling experience when they can just hop on the dolmen train or farm zombies in one of the many PvE zones that offer zombie camps.

MasterSpatula · December 2017

No. Any sub and anyone who bought IC should be able to go into the content they're paying for.

It genuinely astonished me that there's anyone who feels otherwise.

Slick_007 · December 2017

Taysa wrote: »

PvPers don't give a rat's behind about IC and PvE'ers aren't going to want to participate in PvP in order to gain entry to a sub-par leveling experience when they can just hop on the dolmen train or farm zombies in one of the many PvE zones that offer zombie camps.

tell that to all those people i ran into in there today.

ArchMikem · December 2017

Iselin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

It used to be like that.

was terrible.

DAoC also made DF available to all three realms after the novelty wore off.

I have to wonder also... just how many players, especially PVE players, make going to IC as it is currently implemented a part of their regular game play?

I certainly don't. Only when I'm a part of a larger group. Safety in numbers. If there wasn't a risk of being ganked I'd go back to the Imperial City more often of course to explore and get into fights with the mobs on my own terms. But no way in Hell would I waste my time going in alone.

Beardimus · December 2017

This isn't a great idea. I disagree with your point that this would help PvP and PvE work in harmony. After the cull of previous alliance it becomes a PvE zone and that's not great, it could also mean when one alliance is dominant that you can get in IC for months untill your fractured alliance pulll together (tell me, how as a lone wolf player can you make that happen?)

Right now i can go there and get both. PvE / stones / fragment earning etc and some small scale PvP on the side. I wouldn't go there if it was just PvE, what's the point. It also removes the danger feeling of hoarding stones etc etc.

@ArchMikem the risk of getting ganked is the best part of IC. It generates a buzz. Even tho stones aren't worth what they were. That feeling of carrying a load and gambling is ace. And it teachs you to improve at small scale and how to run a anti gank setup

BUT OP i do agree IC should link to Overground. Maybe people could take Scrolls there to hide them or other AP increases. So the action is tied to winning up top, that i agree with.

ArchMikem · December 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

@ArchMikem the risk of getting ganked is the best part of IC. It generates a buzz. Even tho stones aren't worth what they were. That feeling of carrying a load and gambling is ace. And it teachs you to improve at small scale and how to run a anti gank setup

That's not what a PvE player care's about, and before you say it, yes, Cyrodiil and the Imperial City are still half PvE. Because of the constant threat of getting rekt by other players I've passed by so much of the narrative and questing cause I know if I try and focus on any of it, some Nightblade tryhard is going to come out of nowhere and send me back to the Sewer base.

And probably teabag my corpse.

code65536 · December 2017

This had already been tried. It was an experiment that failed miserably on every server--as people had predicted ahead of time. There's absolutely no reason to believe that it would end any differently if tried again.

Emma_Overload · December 2017

As others have said, they already tried this and failed. Nothing OP has suggested would improve the population of the Imperial City. I should know, I'm in there almost every day!

IC needs:

1) better items (BIS!) in the Tel Var store

2) direct access to sewer base from Tamriel

3) instant respawn at nearest base, even if you don't own that district

Do these 3 things, and I promise you IC population will skyrocket.

agegarton · December 2017

I’d love to see more zones like IC. The mix of PVP and PVE is often way more fun than one or the other alone -we just need more people in there.

makreth · December 2017

I agree with you OP and I see what you mean. Sadly, as you can see from most of the replies there is no alliance pride in eso and loot wins before all. So...this won't happen

We are very much spoiled nowadays and we want almost everything handed to us with no effort.

Also, DF entrance was in each realm's overland and....there was no instanced PVP... in ESO this would be abused anyway. There are no faction locks, there are no actions taken so far to address population imbalances and people hop on to characters of the most crowded alliance for a better chance on the final campaign rewards. Meh...

glavius · December 2017

Darkness Falls in DAoC was great. However, there are a multitude of reasons why it would not work in ESO:

1: Darkness Falls (at the time it came out and a long time after), had some of the best ways to farm gold. It also had content for low levels/solo (upper areas), small groups (middle areas) and zergs (lower areas).

2: You could not switch campaign, so if you wanted access you had to work for it. No easy campaign switch to the campaign where your faction has the biggest zerg like in ESO.

3: Because it was so popular, when a realm got access, a decent part of the pvp population went there. Making it easier for the other 2 factions to take it back.

4: It was HUGE. Imperial city is a tiny, poor mans version in comparison. Imperial city is basically 2 small areas. Sewers, that suffer from being very linear, with only 1 path from A to B. And upper Imperial City, thats basically an open area with instant respawn for the faction that controls it. Instant respawn is very bad if you want any kind of suspense running around there. And rewards the faction that owns it to the point that it would be waste of time for the other 2 factions trying to fight there if one death would kick you out.

5: The reason it didn't work late in the games lifetime: Loot/reward was subpar, giving no incentive to go there. Opening it up for all factions at the same time, just made it a zerg fest.

Dragonnord · December 2017

People still go to IC?

pieratsos · December 2017

Iselin wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Too late anyway. Who cares about IC ?

Exactly. IC is niche and hardly used as it now is. Not to mention that the game does absolutely nothing these days to get PVErs to have a reason to go to Cyrodiil.

But hey it sounds like everyone just loves the fact that PVP and PVE are totally separate communities. God forbid that anyone try to bring them together working on a mutually beneficial goal.

I must have forgotten for a minute that no one cares about community goals any more. Must have had a 15 year old flashback there.

The only ways to revitalize IC in some way without doing major changes to the DLC itself is either completely seperate IC from cyro and just make it as another DLC zone (just this one has both PVE and PVP) or make only one IC zone (not one for every campaign) which is very similar to the first solution or make IC actually a part of cyrodiil. Just open the bridges and let people head into IC. Even tho this one would actually require major changes and i highly doubt that its going to happen cause then IC would cease to be an actual DLC unless they put invisible walls or something at the bridges for people who didnt buy IC and telvar would also need a rework.

newtinmpls · December 2017

The_Brosteen wrote: »

I remember ganking people trying to go into the sewers back when this was a thing and imperial city was more popular. Good times, good times.

Hence the reason it is no longer popular with the PvE crowd who would prefer to "play" with others, rather than be food for an unending stream of annoying gankers.

That being said, I do enjoy it on occasion, both the (limited) battles for the flags/respawn sites (the fact that I can't even recall the right name tells me it's been a while) and for the occasional "naked fishing in IC" which is intermittently a thing (no idea why, but it's weirdly fun).

I also (occasionally) level my cutie-pie dunmer magDK there, and she's usually made welcome to tag along with sewer runs.

.

newtinmpls · December 2017

agegarton wrote: »

I’d love to see more zones like IC. The mix of PVP and PVE is often way more fun than one or the other alone -we just need more people in there.

I think it was at it's height back when it took a zerg to kill the sweepers. I would like to see that again.

Autumnhart · December 2017

It's been done. Any change to gameplay that encourages single-color maps in Cyrodiil is a terrible idea.

Iselin wrote: »

Not only would it give PVPers another reason to work together in Cyrodiil to gain entry, it provided PVErs with a great place to level and grind.

The first isn't needed and the second is available in every other zone in the game. If you want to play in IC, play IC. It includes PVP.

Autumnhart · December 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

As others have said, they already tried this and failed. Nothing OP has suggested would improve the population of the Imperial City. I should know, I'm in there almost every day!

IC needs:

1) better items (BIS!) in the Tel Var store

2) direct access to sewer base from Tamriel

3) instant respawn at nearest base, even if you don't own that district

Do these 3 things, and I promise you IC population will skyrocket.

Just #2 would be huge. If they give us all three I'll bring the beer.