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What's your thoughts about upcoming perma-block changes?
Amoureros
✭✭✭
Perma block has been a hot topic for years.
It's not super OP as it was used to be, but in my opinion, perma block is still fairly powerful enough to hurt diversity.
Now, I am considering to make an alt with perma block build, just in case of the upcoming changes is not good enough to solve the problem.
What's your thoughts? How do you expect it to be turned out?
I'd appreciate your opinion. Please be civil and productive or I will ignore you.
It's not super OP as it was used to be, but in my opinion, perma block is still fairly powerful enough to hurt diversity.
Now, I am considering to make an alt with perma block build, just in case of the upcoming changes is not good enough to solve the problem.
What's your thoughts? How do you expect it to be turned out?
I'd appreciate your opinion. Please be civil and productive or I will ignore you.
3
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generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭do we know the changes yet?"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My thoughts? Again, this is another attempt to balance PVP at the great expense of PVE. I just wish ZOS would tie these nerfs to the Battle Spirit passive and leave PVE alone.67 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭All this change is going to end up achieving is that some PvP DD classes like MagDK and (to a lesser extent) Magplar will be nerfed, while the actual target of the nerf (Unkillable block knights) will remain as they are essentially unscathed. I despise tanks, for instance, I think there should be a hard cap on health, and heavy armor should be disabled when you enter Cyrodiil. I'm all for the nerfing of PvP tanks—I just have very little faith that this will be the one nerf that works.18 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.My internet is invalid9 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭It really screws over StamDK PvP.Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.5 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the most extreme case, where someone is maximizing block cost reduction, the changes that they stated (moving cost reduction to the start of the equation and reducing base cost by 20%) would mean block cost rising from 88 to 336.
The nerf is smaller (but still substantial) if you're not quite as invested in cost reduction.
The only situation where it's a buff is if you're not using the cost reduction enchants. But... every tank uses them--in all 3 slots, most of the time--so this is a nerf for most everyone.
We'll see when the PTS hits what it looks like.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1 -
lazerlaz✭✭✭Whatever the changes PVE will be fine. In major content you're not blocking 10-20 attacks at a time like you are in PVP and only draining stamina once per .25sec.
PVE will be fine.
Honestly every hit that gets blocked should tick your stamina rather than blocking multiple attacks but only draining your stamina pool once every .25 seconds.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
@hydrocynus You have to drop block for a whole 2s for the regen to tick. If you dropped block for 1.5s, and then reactivated block, the timer resets again, and it would be as if you had been permablocking the entire time, as far as the regen penalty goes. I.e., if you drop block for 1.5s, block, and then drop block for another 1.5s, you would get zero regen even though you dropped block for 3s total.
This means that someone dropping block momentarily to light-attack is getting the exact same regen penalty as someone who is actually permablocking.
So those who drop block to light attack to keep up Crusher uptime will be just as affected, contrary to your incorrect claim. (Also, enchantments are applied on weapon ability usage as well, so retaunting or low slashing will have the same effect, if they can't drop block at that moment for a light attack.)Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information9 -
Arthg✭✭✭✭✭
✭Permablocking is only an issue in CP PvP.
Draw your own conclusions.
PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. Pro scrub.14 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will probably have to redo my magicka DK. Playing a no-shields light armor build without blocking just isn't possible - as soon as you drop block, you die(as demonstrated by me getting feared at full HP, and dying before my break free animation completes >.<).
But hey - i like challenges, bring it on. I'll think of something.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will probably have to redo my magicka DK. Playing a no-shields light armor build without blocking just isn't possible - as soon as you drop block, you die(as demonstrated by me getting feared at full HP, and dying before my break free animation completes >.<).
But hey - i like challenges, bring it on. I'll think of something.
But are you using block cost reduction enchantments on your jewelry? If not, then you'll have lower block costs next patch and this change will be a buff to you. The people most heavily nerfed as the ones running 3 enchantments--i.e., all the "true" tanks.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will probably have to redo my magicka DK. Playing a no-shields light armor build without blocking just isn't possible - as soon as you drop block, you die(as demonstrated by me getting feared at full HP, and dying before my break free animation completes >.<).
But hey - i like challenges, bring it on. I'll think of something.
But are you using block cost reduction enchantments on your jewelry? If not, then you'll have lower block costs next patch and this change will be a buff to you. The people most heavily nerfed as the ones running 3 enchantments--i.e., all the "true" tanks.
Yep - all three. I only have 12k stamina on that character, anything less and i will run out too fast.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will probably have to redo my magicka DK. Playing a no-shields light armor build without blocking just isn't possible - as soon as you drop block, you die(as demonstrated by me getting feared at full HP, and dying before my break free animation completes >.<).
But hey - i like challenges, bring it on. I'll think of something.
But are you using block cost reduction enchantments on your jewelry? If not, then you'll have lower block costs next patch and this change will be a buff to you. The people most heavily nerfed as the ones running 3 enchantments--i.e., all the "true" tanks.
Yep - all three. I only have 12k stamina on that character, anything less and i will run out too fast.
Oh. Well, RIP.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It'll just be the same *** we allways see, nerfing PVE tanks for the sake of PVP children until the foruma becomes unuseable for PVE content.14 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
@hydrocynus You have to drop block for a whole 2s for the regen to tick. If you dropped block for 1.5s, and then reactivated block, the timer resets again, and it would be as if you had been permablocking the entire time, as far as the regen penalty goes. I.e., if you drop block for 1.5s, block, and then drop block for another 1.5s, you would get zero regen even though you dropped block for 3s total.
This means that someone dropping block momentarily to light-attack is getting the exact same regen penalty as someone who is actually permablocking.
So those who drop block to light attack to keep up Crusher uptime will be just as affected, contrary to your incorrect claim. (Also, enchantments are applied on weapon ability usage as well, so retaunting or low slashing will have the same effect, if they can't drop block at that moment for a light attack.)
I think you are doing it wrong. The idea is not to block all the time and stop blocking to do 1 light attack to apply crusher. If you are doing that you probably don't have crusher up as much as your team would like. Block when you need to and don't block when you don't need to. That's what they are pushing us towards which isn't such a bad thing. And when you do that you will not stress too much about the regen.My internet is invalid4 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
@hydrocynus You have to drop block for a whole 2s for the regen to tick. If you dropped block for 1.5s, and then reactivated block, the timer resets again, and it would be as if you had been permablocking the entire time, as far as the regen penalty goes. I.e., if you drop block for 1.5s, block, and then drop block for another 1.5s, you would get zero regen even though you dropped block for 3s total.
This means that someone dropping block momentarily to light-attack is getting the exact same regen penalty as someone who is actually permablocking.
So those who drop block to light attack to keep up Crusher uptime will be just as affected, contrary to your incorrect claim. (Also, enchantments are applied on weapon ability usage as well, so retaunting or low slashing will have the same effect, if they can't drop block at that moment for a light attack.)
I think you are doing it wrong. The idea is not to block all the time and stop blocking to do 1 light attack to apply crusher. If you are doing that you probably don't have crusher up as much as your team would like. Block when you need to and don't block when you don't need to. That's what they are pushing us towards which isn't such a bad thing. And when you do that you will not stress too much about the regen.
I'm assuming then that you've never maintanked a vet trial.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information15 -
Mister_DMC✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
Incorrect, I'm a vet trials tank and I perma block pretty much the entire trial. If you don't while holding aggro of as many mobs as possible you'll die in seconds. I can still sustain will perma blocking in ebon/alkosh/torugs whatever while applying crusher every 5 seconds.5 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
What's your thoughts? How do you expect it to be turned out?
I'd appreciate your opinion. Please be civil and productive or I will ignore you.
Was initially worried the changes were going to make my life more hellish in leveling my Undaunted with my tank setup
but apparently it is going to act as a buff to my build...
The only situation where it's a buff is if you're not using the cost reduction enchants. But... every tank uses them--in all 3 slots, most of the time--so this is a nerf for most everyone.
...
so potentially looking forward to it
personally use regen enchants and only block when necessary, so score
seemingly already ready to adapt
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeIf zos is working on nerfing LITERALLY permablock builds, then I’m ok with it. But please don’t mess up mDKs anyfurther, we can’t permablock (and be relevant in pvp) at the same time. If you died to somebody that you think is permablocking its most likely an l2p issue at this point.5 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So, stamDK vet trials build... I'll just respec as an mDK and retire from vet trials. I'm sick of being nerfed every time PvP whines about tanks.
I agree that this should be tied to Battle Spirit as it is a PvP issue only... but given almost 4 years of nerfs to tanks, it will be worldwide.9 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
Pierce armor (or if you're using the armor up morph to deal with the alleged ele drain bug) procs your enchant. You can maintain permablock and your crusher enchant.
Not sure about how I feel... will wait and pass judgement when I test it, not before.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tired of all the permablocking cheeseball mDks. And their total innocent act. Hoping it ends.5 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's time to eliminate permablocking capability. You shouldn't be able to permablock AND deal tons of damage at the same time. AND CC people to death.5 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Thing is that tanks that perma block on pve are doing a disservice to the group. Constant blocking = limited application of crusher + weakened debuffs.
So group friendly tanks aren't perma blocking in PVE so this time the changes intended for PVP won't be affecting PVE that much.
This is false. In terms if resource management there is no difference. Dropping block for a light attack is not going to give you stamina regen. Making any sustain hit to someone permablocking and someone applying crusher more often is exactly the same.
Also, your other arguments in this thread about “blocking less = more crusher” is completely false. There is absolutey no factor at all that would allow someone who blocks less frequenently to apply more crusher. This feels to me more like a “I’m not sure when my crusher runs out so I’ll just light attack all the time”. You can permablock perfectly while maintaining great crusher numbers, at least if you know what you are doing and track your buffs in a decent manner.
Can’t permablock? Your sustain sucks. Can’t keep crusher up? Your timing sucks.
And doing both right isn’t a big deal at all.Edited by Woeler on December 25, 2017 8:42PM6
