Please Look At Soul Assault

Drummerx04 · December 2017

KingJ wrote: »

You know you can still sidestep dawnbreaker it's a Cone AOE

Drummerx04 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

For anyone saying that dawnbreaker should be magicka based again no. Each class has 0-2 ults which scale with stamina.
DK: Leap and Corrosive Armor
Templar: Crescent Sweep
Sorc: None
NB: Incap
Warden: Bear
+ 6 weapon ults and 2 morphs of dawnbreaker, 2x WW

Against:
Bat swarm (2x), DK ults (4x), Sorc (6x) NB 4x (not counting bolstering darkness), Templar 5x, Warden 5x
4 weapon ults, 2x Soulassault, 2x Meteor.

Not counting Barrier, War Horn, 1h&s ult, Bolstering Darkness as they do not scale with stam and mag

So let's do the math: 15 stamina vs 34 magicka based ults.
Stamina has the cheaper offensive ults to break the better healing survivability in open combat while magicka has the more powerful more expensive ults to wreck stam players in one attempt.
Giving magicka a full damage dawnbreaker would give them the best defensive ults while having a cheap ult that goes through all defences stamina classes have.

On the topic of Soulassault, it's too easy to get kills with it. Find a stamchar that's not a warden, use you dots stun them and then use SA and get the kill if they are outnumbered skip 1&2 and get the easy kill.
SA needs it's cost increased by 15%, changed to be interrupteable again and lowering the snare to 30%.
Along with nerfs to incap and 2 of the most op / powerful ults in the game would come back to a balanced point

I'm a little tired of seeing that opinion tbh. You want SA to be interruptible, but it's designed to be used against dodge rollers who are invariably stam builds who will be in a position to bash pretty much always in a 1v1.

You want it to only be useful in Xv1? Yeah, that's the way to do it.

That's called counterplay young one something you need in a healthy game.

That's called, "my ultimate cannot be used reliably against the targets for which it was designed to kill"

Think about it. Bashing an ultimate. A one-cast-every-30-seconds skill completely negated by a move on it's own independent cooldown. That's the counter equivalent of every character in cyrodiil having shieldbreaker as a base effect of all light attacks and they claiming, "it's not like shields don't work any more"

Brutusmax1mus · December 2017

The counter play is blocking, healing, shielding, getting distance, resistance, sword n board passives, line of sight, cloak, other ultimates, counter pressure, and combinations of any of the above. Just because your not using them doesn't mean they aren't there @KingJ .

Brutusmax1mus · December 2017

If you're saying it does a lot for its cost, ill agree, but its not a death sentence.

BohnT · December 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

You know you can still sidestep dawnbreaker it's a Cone AOE

Drummerx04 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

For anyone saying that dawnbreaker should be magicka based again no. Each class has 0-2 ults which scale with stamina.
DK: Leap and Corrosive Armor
Templar: Crescent Sweep
Sorc: None
NB: Incap
Warden: Bear
+ 6 weapon ults and 2 morphs of dawnbreaker, 2x WW

Against:
Bat swarm (2x), DK ults (4x), Sorc (6x) NB 4x (not counting bolstering darkness), Templar 5x, Warden 5x
4 weapon ults, 2x Soulassault, 2x Meteor.

Not counting Barrier, War Horn, 1h&s ult, Bolstering Darkness as they do not scale with stam and mag

So let's do the math: 15 stamina vs 34 magicka based ults.
Stamina has the cheaper offensive ults to break the better healing survivability in open combat while magicka has the more powerful more expensive ults to wreck stam players in one attempt.
Giving magicka a full damage dawnbreaker would give them the best defensive ults while having a cheap ult that goes through all defences stamina classes have.

On the topic of Soulassault, it's too easy to get kills with it. Find a stamchar that's not a warden, use you dots stun them and then use SA and get the kill if they are outnumbered skip 1&2 and get the easy kill.
SA needs it's cost increased by 15%, changed to be interrupteable again and lowering the snare to 30%.
Along with nerfs to incap and 2 of the most op / powerful ults in the game would come back to a balanced point

I'm a little tired of seeing that opinion tbh. You want SA to be interruptible, but it's designed to be used against dodge rollers who are invariably stam builds who will be in a position to bash pretty much always in a 1v1.

You want it to only be useful in Xv1? Yeah, that's the way to do it.

That's called counterplay young one something you need in a healthy game.

That's called, "my ultimate cannot be used reliably against the targets for which it was designed to kill"

Think about it. Bashing an ultimate. A one-cast-every-30-seconds skill completely negated by a move on it's own independent cooldown. That's the counter equivalent of every character in cyrodiil having shieldbreaker as a base effect of all light attacks and they claiming, "it's not like shields don't work any more"

You mean like Soulassault that hardcounters dodge roll and has removed the gameplay completely from cyro? There are maybe 2-3 players on pc EU who still rely on dodge roll.
Bow ult is balanced: interuptable,blockable , los-able, reflectable, no snare but very high damage and great range.
That's how it should be balanced with ranged ults that deal high damage.
You want to use the ult safely from behind a zerg? Then your enemy has to have access to a variety of counterplay that involves a risk & reward mechanic (bashable)

Drummerx04 · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

You mean like Soulassault that hardcounters dodge roll and has removed the gameplay completely from cyro? There are maybe 2-3 players on pc EU who still rely on dodge roll.
Bow ult is balanced: interuptable,blockable , los-able, reflectable, no snare but very high damage and great range.
That's how it should be balanced with ranged ults that deal high damage.
You want to use the ult safely from behind a zerg? Then your enemy has to have access to a variety of counterplay that involves a risk & reward mechanic (bashable)

See now you are getting some things messed up, if I'm using it safely from the back of a zerg, then how does making it bashable help you? My point was that making the skill bashable pretty much limits its usefulness to zerging, and thus removes it as a counter to dodge roll.

I say remove the snare on target and make the full duration uncloakable. That would be enough to balance the skill out quite a bit.

BohnT · December 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

You mean like Soulassault that hardcounters dodge roll and has removed the gameplay completely from cyro? There are maybe 2-3 players on pc EU who still rely on dodge roll.
Bow ult is balanced: interuptable,blockable , los-able, reflectable, no snare but very high damage and great range.
That's how it should be balanced with ranged ults that deal high damage.
You want to use the ult safely from behind a zerg? Then your enemy has to have access to a variety of counterplay that involves a risk & reward mechanic (bashable)

See now you are getting some things messed up, if I'm using it safely from the back of a zerg, then how does making it bashable help you? My point was that making the skill bashable pretty much limits its usefulness to zerging, and thus removes it as a counter to dodge roll.

I say remove the snare on target and make the full duration uncloakable. That would be enough to balance the skill out quite a bit.

Making it cloakable only helps stamnb which doesn't need any buffs atm.
A gapcloser + bash solves this and it could come from any ally you have.
When the skill was bashable you had to be at range to use it and when you are at range i can either get out of the range or get to you and bash you right now no matter how close people are they will eat the damage and die simply because they pressed one Button

SodanTok · December 2017

What if just removed the stupid Morrowind patch decision to punish permablockers by making blocking slightly expensive for them and horrible to use for everyone else. It would fix soul assault too.

You can lose 8k stamina in 2sec of blocking. Who thought that is good idea.

Drummerx04 · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

You mean like Soulassault that hardcounters dodge roll and has removed the gameplay completely from cyro? There are maybe 2-3 players on pc EU who still rely on dodge roll.
Bow ult is balanced: interuptable,blockable , los-able, reflectable, no snare but very high damage and great range.
That's how it should be balanced with ranged ults that deal high damage.
You want to use the ult safely from behind a zerg? Then your enemy has to have access to a variety of counterplay that involves a risk & reward mechanic (bashable)

See now you are getting some things messed up, if I'm using it safely from the back of a zerg, then how does making it bashable help you? My point was that making the skill bashable pretty much limits its usefulness to zerging, and thus removes it as a counter to dodge roll.

I say remove the snare on target and make the full duration uncloakable. That would be enough to balance the skill out quite a bit.

Making it cloakable only helps stamnb which doesn't need any buffs atm.
A gapcloser + bash solves this and it could come from any ally you have.
When the skill was bashable you had to be at range to use it and when you are at range i can either get out of the range or get to you and bash you right now no matter how close people are they will eat the damage and die simply because they pressed one Button

I think you my have misread. I don't want NB to be able to cloak it at all, but the SA skill would no longer snare at all.

techprince · December 2017

You have to understand how ZOS implements more and more cures rather than preventing the problem from occurring in the first place. This is generally called as band-aid fixes.

Problem : Perma Roll Dodging
Prevention : Drain resources, increased roll dodge cost from subsequent roll dodge (this is huge failure as medium armor player can STILL roll dodge till eternity)
Cure : Undodgable abilities and ultimates
Suggestion : Reduce the dodge window, increase the subsequent roll dodge cost, add increase roll dodge cost effect.

Problem : Perma Healing
Prevention : Drain resources, reduced healing effects (perma healers can outheal even with these effects on)
Cure : High dmg
Suggestion : No idea.

Problem : Perma Stealth
Prevention : Drain resources, prevent stealth effects.
Cure : Reveal effects.
Suggestion : No idea.

Problem : Perma Shielding
Prevention : Drain resources, crowd control effects
Cure : Unshieldable dmg
Suggestion : Add a debuff to reduce the shield strength similar to Major Defile OR let Major Defile affect shields, add a buff on the target to reduce the subsequent shield strength similar to roll dodge.

Problem : Perma Blocking
Prevention : Drain resources
Cure : Unblockable dmg, unblockable abilities
Suggestion : Let block reduce the damage done by 50% as it reduces the incoming damage by 50%, add increase block cost effect.

Now drain resources and cost increase poisons do help but they are expensive as hell making them unreachable to most of the playerbase.

Soul Assault is a "cure" to the problem of "perma roll dodgers". Instead of curing this problem, prevent it from happening in the first place.

Neoauspex · December 2017

I have never once seen a group advertisement saying "need soul assault" or "LFG have SA". When the two ultimates that do get that treatment are hit with the nerf hammer, then we can talk about this one.

Waffennacht · December 2017

Defile is like ... The best

CatchMeTrolling · December 2017

I’m not even surprised so many people would defend this joke of an ultimate, especially the fact it can’t be bashed and has no counter play . You get caught in the open in medium armor outnumbered you’re done. Honestly it’s a zerg you down ult, no one is using it solo or small scale.

Waffennacht · December 2017

@techprince permablock is an issue, one that ZoS has come out and said it's an issue that they are going to do something about.

Dodge rolling isn't an issue, cuz a ton of abilities are undodgeable

Permablocking doesn't need to deal damage to succeed in BGs for example

Ragnaroek93 · December 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

You mean like Soulassault that hardcounters dodge roll and has removed the gameplay completely from cyro? There are maybe 2-3 players on pc EU who still rely on dodge roll.
Bow ult is balanced: interuptable,blockable , los-able, reflectable, no snare but very high damage and great range.
That's how it should be balanced with ranged ults that deal high damage.
You want to use the ult safely from behind a zerg? Then your enemy has to have access to a variety of counterplay that involves a risk & reward mechanic (bashable)

See now you are getting some things messed up, if I'm using it safely from the back of a zerg, then how does making it bashable help you? My point was that making the skill bashable pretty much limits its usefulness to zerging, and thus removes it as a counter to dodge roll.

I say remove the snare on target and make the full duration uncloakable. That would be enough to balance the skill out quite a bit.

There are two options: You either never played stamnb or you want the class get removed from PvP because there is no way how a stam nb can survive against Soul Strike without cancelling it with cloak (and even this doesn't work well because of all the lag).

However I don't think that Soul Strike is a problem. A problem is how pathetic weak stamina currently is and either stamina needs a buff (something like healing ward maybe) or magicka needs a nerf, it's simple as that.

ZOS_Mika · December 2017

Hey there everyone! We recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil. If things continue to get heated, we will have to consider closing the thread down. Thanks for your understanding.