Please Look At Soul Assault

Vapirko

Let me preface this by saying I’ve begun using SA (no shame, ok maybe a little) on one of my new builds, it’s a unique ultimate and it functions very well in place of an execute. However, it’s got issues and I think it needs to be looked at. I would like to use this skill knowing it’s not OP, and also without getting constantly whispered at for my cheap use of it, because again, it’s a great skill. My main issue with it right now is that it’s only counterplay is los, yet it causes a 70% snare, this is silly and one of the biggest reasons why I find this skill to be cringeworthy. Yes it leaves you somewhat vulnerable, but it’s a single target skill and not meant to be used in an outnumbered situation. I believe that greatly reducing or possibly removing the snare altogether would be a good move, and also wouldn’t reduce its effectiveness against tanks or whatever it’s intedned use is. You can still snare then SA there’s no reason for it to have its own, especially one so powerful. Just my two cents on it, as I said it works very well as an execute, it’s usqiue, but for the sake of it being a great but also fair skill, it needs a little balance.

Lord-Otto

Well, there's already a thread for this. Sorry I have to be that guy.

I agree with you. Snares are really overused and only belong on very selected few skills, not undodgable beams.

However, I don't think this will make people shut up about the skill. There are already snare removal skills, and in open field there's no cover to sprint to whatsoever.

Good start, needs a bit more work.

Derra

IF it´s intended use would be to fight tanks it would ignore block - not dodge (like it did before).
It´s intended use is to fry dodgerollers nowadays (as it got specifically changed to become blockable) - in that scenario the snare makes sense as you don´t want your target to simply walk behind a tree.

Emma_Overload

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

Vapirko

Derra wrote: »

IF it´s intended use would be to fight tanks it would ignore block - not dodge (like it did before).
It´s intended use is to fry dodgerollers nowadays (as it got specifically changed to become blockable) - in that scenario the snare makes sense as you don´t want your target to simply walk behind a tree.

Sure, but again I’d be fine with it. Having los as countrrplay then making los damn near impossible is odd.

Vapirko

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

Agreed! Magicka DB would be awesome, but I’ve played stam and mag a lot and feel that the two are fairly well balanced atm. Soul assault doesn’t need to be buffed that’s for sure.

SodanTok

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

MercTheMage

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

You mean like it used to be back in the good old days when it did magic damage?

Thogard

Nothing stopping you from running dawnbrraker on a mag toon ... who cares about a little lost dmg from CP

Emma_Overload

Thogard wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from running dawnbrraker on a mag toon ... who cares about a little lost dmg from CP

Doing damage is the whole point. Nobody chooses ultimates on the basis of pretty lights and cool sound effects. Dawnbreaker does weak damage currently because of the lack of penetration. Adjusting CP to compensate just gimps the rest of your build.

This situation is especially unfair to Sorcerers who don't have a killer one-shot class ultimate like Incap or Leap.

Joy_Division

Thogard wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from running dawnbrraker on a mag toon ... who cares about a little lost dmg from CP

It's more than a little bit and it's not just damage you're losing.

DDuke

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I looked at soul assault now I’m blind, thanks....

jaws343

Soul Assault can be healed through though. I use it on my Magplar. But it's a build that is designed specifically around Soul Assault. Even with that, I only kill players who are already missing health or who do not block/heal/shield through the damage.

Even without those counters, the right resistances will increase your chance at surviving. I hit my soul assault at the same time another player did and we soul assaulted each other from full health. No block or healing or los. We both survived. Because our resistances are specced properly.

idk

Just because a player is sore because you killed him doesn't mean the skil is a problem.

The damage can be mitigated and even LoSed. Many players have tunnel vision and it costs them when they don't think of survival in various situations. Unfortunately they tend to blame the skill instead of learning from the situation.

Solariken

IMO Soul Assault is fine - 1v1 you have a very good chance of surviving it unless you get caught with your pants down. If you get hit with it in an Xv1 you're toast, but that's kinda the way ZOS is designing combat lately.

Also IMO, DBoS is the one that is a bit over-tuned - I think it needs to lose the stun to bring it in line. Again just my opinion, sheath your pitchforks lol.

artal

Solariken wrote: »

IMO Soul Assault is fine - 1v1 you have a very good chance of surviving it unless you get caught with your pants down. If you get hit with it in an Xv1 you're toast, but that's kinda the way ZOS is designing combat lately.

Also IMO, DBoS is the one that is a bit over-tuned - I think it needs to lose the stun to bring it in line. Again just my opinion, sheath your pitchforks lol.

This is true about soul assault. 1v1 its just so easy to deal with.. Xv1 well its entirely other situation, but so many skills are strong xv1 that its silly to even go there.

I highly disagree with stun removal on DBoS, as stam solo player I really need that stun. It is strong ultie and I cant say for sure if something can be and should be changed about it. But please leave my stun

Drakkdjinn

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

Nope.

Destro ult, bats, SA, DBoS on magstack builds, ferocious leap, etc.

Minno

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

Which used to be magplar's old cresant sweep Lol

BohnT

For anyone saying that dawnbreaker should be magicka based again no. Each class has 0-2 ults which scale with stamina.
DK: Leap and Corrosive Armor
Templar: Crescent Sweep
Sorc: None
NB: Incap
Warden: Bear
+ 6 weapon ults and 2 morphs of dawnbreaker, 2x WW

Against:
Bat swarm (2x), DK ults (4x), Sorc (6x) NB 4x (not counting bolstering darkness), Templar 5x, Warden 5x
4 weapon ults, 2x Soulassault, 2x Meteor.

Not counting Barrier, War Horn, 1h&s ult, Bolstering Darkness as they do not scale with stam and mag

So let's do the math: 15 stamina vs 34 magicka based ults.
Stamina has the cheaper offensive ults to break the better healing survivability in open combat while magicka has the more powerful more expensive ults to wreck stam players in one attempt.
Giving magicka a full damage dawnbreaker would give them the best defensive ults while having a cheap ult that goes through all defences stamina classes have.

On the topic of Soulassault, it's too easy to get kills with it. Find a stamchar that's not a warden, use you dots stun them and then use SA and get the kill if they are outnumbered skip 1&2 and get the easy kill.
SA needs it's cost increased by 15%, changed to be interrupteable again and lowering the snare to 30%.
Along with nerfs to incap and 2 of the most op / powerful ults in the game would come back to a balanced point

KingJ

They need to lower the amount of Tics and increase the damage this way if your a Meduim armor build it doesn't drain all your stam while blocking.Remove the damn snares I hate snares its ridiculous.

Joy_Division

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

DDuke

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

No I wouldn't (especially as stam build that already has zero undodgeables), and I was more referring to things like Soul Harvest (undodgeable, unlike its counterpart), meteor, atro, soul assault & EotS.

Also, playing magicka DK I've actually come to appreciate the dmg shield I get on casting Ferocious Leap - I don't think I'd swap that for a little bit more dmg & reduced cost either.


But sure, if you compare the strongest stamina ultimates to the weakest magicka ones I can understand how they might seem very strong.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

No I wouldn't (especially as stam build that already has zero undodgeables), and I was more referring to things like Soul Harvest (undodgeable, unlike its counterpart), meteor, atro, soul assault & EotS.

Also, playing magicka DK I've actually come to appreciate the dmg shield I get on casting Ferocious Leap - I don't think I'd swap that for a little bit more dmg & reduced cost either.


But sure, if you compare the strongest stamina ultimates to the weakest magicka ones I can understand how they might seem very strong.

As far as i know joy plays mainly magplar and magsorc - both not having access to the good offensive magica ultimates in the game (you can add warden to that list aswell).

GrigorijMalahevich

Nice ult, cool animation. Thanks for asking to look at it.

P.S. magsorcs love their instant damage ults for example

Yeap, dawnbreaker that scales with Mighty, cool.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

No I wouldn't (especially as stam build that already has zero undodgeables), and I was more referring to things like Soul Harvest (undodgeable, unlike its counterpart), meteor, atro, soul assault & EotS.

Also, playing magicka DK I've actually come to appreciate the dmg shield I get on casting Ferocious Leap - I don't think I'd swap that for a little bit more dmg & reduced cost either.


But sure, if you compare the strongest stamina ultimates to the weakest magicka ones I can understand how they might seem very strong.

As far as i know joy plays mainly magplar and magsorc - both not having access to the good offensive magica ultimates in the game (you can add warden to that list aswell).

I guess you mean burst ones? Because one of the very strong (ok, vs non-S&B stam builds only - it tickles my mag dk) ones is in the thread title. Meteor is also great with Rune Cage, and Atronach... well, you're familiar with what that monstrosity can do in duels

I also wouldn't write off Warden bear that quickly - that thing has the highest tooltip in the game (and for only 75 ultimate).


But yeah, just to elaborate a bit more on why I think magicka ultimates are stronger:

For example, if I had to choose between Soul Harvest (undodgeable+ulti from kills) & Incap (stun) being the stamina morph, I'd pick Soul Harvest every single time.

Most of the time Incap is used as part of a combo that includes CC from another source (unless you want it to get blocked/dodged), meaning the stun part is completely redundant.

I'd definitely have it up more often in 1vX & have it be undodgeable instead, which means Soul Harvest is actually the better morph, but just happens to be for magicka builds only...

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

No I wouldn't (especially as stam build that already has zero undodgeables), and I was more referring to things like Soul Harvest (undodgeable, unlike its counterpart), meteor, atro, soul assault & EotS.

Also, playing magicka DK I've actually come to appreciate the dmg shield I get on casting Ferocious Leap - I don't think I'd swap that for a little bit more dmg & reduced cost either.


But sure, if you compare the strongest stamina ultimates to the weakest magicka ones I can understand how they might seem very strong.

As far as i know joy plays mainly magplar and magsorc - both not having access to the good offensive magica ultimates in the game (you can add warden to that list aswell).

Well i wouldn't say that Meteor is a bad ult especially on magsorc it's really strong with curse+ fury+ frag and rune cage hitting at the same time.
Also a ult that gets you a free kill against 3 specs while still being strong against anything that's not a shieldstacker/ permablock magplar isn't something to sneeze at.
Yes templar ults need rework but so do Soulassault, incap, Corrosive Armor/ magma shell, shifting standart, bat swarm, 2h ult, poison barrage, dw ult.

But a removal of dawnbreaker isn't acceptable for stamina chars.
Stamsorc, warden and stampoffeall rely on it as their only useable offensive ults.

Crescent sweep isn't useable due to low range, low damage when not hitting people infront of you which is almost impossible in lag
Stamsorc has no other ults except for 2h ult which is blockable, dodgeable has higher cost and gives no passives
Stamwarden could use the buggy Bear that hits hard but it's not reliable or again the crappy 2h ult

BohnT

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Magicka ultimates are already weak compared to Stamina, they should be buffed not nerfed. I would take a Magicka version of Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault any day!

This put me in tears.

Ikr?

It's not like every magicka ultimate (besides Overload) is undodgeable and every stamina ultimate in the game (besides Dawnbreaker) can be dodged... oh wait.


Stamina ultimates are "so much stronger", that most stam builds would rather slot Soul Assault than the stamina equivalent, Toxic Barrage.

I'd take Incap and Leap over every magicka ultimate in the game and so would you.

Stam has it so hard not being able to dodge Remembrance, Nova, Negate, and Banner. How can stam wardens possibly begin to compete against an array of OP ultis such as those?

No I wouldn't (especially as stam build that already has zero undodgeables), and I was more referring to things like Soul Harvest (undodgeable, unlike its counterpart), meteor, atro, soul assault & EotS.

Also, playing magicka DK I've actually come to appreciate the dmg shield I get on casting Ferocious Leap - I don't think I'd swap that for a little bit more dmg & reduced cost either.


But sure, if you compare the strongest stamina ultimates to the weakest magicka ones I can understand how they might seem very strong.

As far as i know joy plays mainly magplar and magsorc - both not having access to the good offensive magica ultimates in the game (you can add warden to that list aswell).

I guess you mean burst ones? Because one of the very strong (ok, vs non-S&B stam builds only - it tickles my mag dk) ones is in the thread title. Meteor is also great with Rune Cage, and Atronach... well, you're familiar with what that monstrosity can do in duels

I also wouldn't write off Warden bear that quickly - that thing has the highest tooltip in the game (and for only 75 ultimate).


But yeah, just to elaborate a bit more on why I think magicka ultimates are stronger:

For example, if I had to choose between Soul Harvest (undodgeable+ulti from kills) & Incap (stun) being the stamina morph, I'd pick Soul Harvest every single time.

Most of the time Incap is used as part of a combo that includes CC from another source (unless you want it to get blocked/dodged), meaning the stun part is completely redundant.

I'd definitely have it up more often in 1vX & have it be undodgeable instead, which means Soul Harvest is actually the better morph, but just happens to be for magicka builds only...

I have to disagree with you on soul harvest. I used it on a meele magnb and when i switched from SH to incap my effectiveness rose enormously. A stun attached to a high damage ability will almost always make your next skill Hit without it being blocked on nb that means incap into assassin's will for easy 20k burst in 2 gcd.
Also the stun on incap is so buggy that you can hit 1-2 skills after incap+will while your enemy is still crawling on the floor.

I guess 80% of my deaths in open world are due to me not being able to break the ccs applied by vamp drain, fear or incap

Brutusmax1mus

@DDuke @BohnT The defile is what makes incap so powerful on a burst combo as it applies at the end.

@Joy_Division you're right, burst ultimates are superior in small scale for sure. Anyone saying they can't cope with 3.5 seconds of damage, but can handle a proper dbos, leap, incap, meteor, combo with the same build just fine is full of it.

NyassaV

nerf damage by like 15% maybe? No less than 7%

Solariken

Would be kinda interesting if they nerfed the damage a bit and made it interruptable BUT changed it to Oblivion damage