starkerealm wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

indicates that the actual active playerbase month-to-month is in fact far smaller than the 10 million milestone ZOS likes to boast. The actual number is 2.5 million players, which is still a healthy number for an MMO, but by far nothing close to the very misleading number reflective of players that have made accounts over the life of the game.

You just contradicted yourself. They never claimed there were 10 million active accounts, they claimed there had been 10 million unique accounts created over the course of the game's lifetime, as you stated.

That's not misleading. People just can't think hard enough apparently.

Pretty sure I didnt contradict myself. At no time do I claim 10 million accounts were active accounts. In fact I say the actual number is 2.5 million. Which you can read earlier in that very sentence.

Apparently people, ie you, cant think hard enough to read something thoroughly before posting.

Dude, you said ZOS' claim was misleading. How is it misleading when it's true?

Because it is misleading. Something can be true and misleading at the same time. Honestly, Im not even sure why that is something you decided to pick apart unless you were looking to pick an fight.

No, the representation of the 10m accounts as "active players," is misleading, but you did that. ZOS was fairly careful to say that 10m people had played their game, which is somewhat debatable, given players who have multiple accounts, but they weren't going out and saying that ESO had 10m people logged in. That was you.

Specifically cite where I state there were 10 million active players.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

...the actual active playerbase month-to-month is in fact far smaller than the 10 million milestone ZOS likes to boast.

You and I both know what the 10 million milestone is. Trying to play coy here and act as if Im saying its something we both know its not is just being dishonest. It also conveniently ignores the sentence following this where it clarifies that the milestone is not a month to month activity but activity over the life of the game. You would have to be returning to the game for the first time or just absolutely not following ESO news to have no idea what the 10 million milestone is. Regardless I already pointed out what the milestone is, and its not my fault you stopped at that sentence and refused to connect the very next sentence in the same paragraph to the one before it. Aside from you and a few other people that are struggling to move past the 10 million milestone. The vast majority here seem to know whats being discussed and isnt doubling down on something just for the sake of an argument.


At this moment, I dont actually care about this pointless merri-go-round of "did he say what I think I read". So you can either re-join the rest of the people commenting about the actual topic, or you can go away. Me, Im going to now ignore you for the remainder of this discussion.

Saturn wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

According to an article on MCV mcvuk.com/articles/publishing/ten-million-in-tamriel-the-slow-build-success-story-of-elder-scrolls-online published just 2 days ago indicates that the actual active playerbase month-to-month is in fact far smaller than the 10 million milestone ZOS likes to boast. The actual number is 2.5 million players, which is still a healthy number for an MMO, but by far nothing close to the very misleading number reflective of players that have made accounts over the life of the game.

Theres still a question of how many of those 2.5 million are actual players and not bots. But at least we now know that the game is indeed healthy.

EDIT: Fixed link to article.

I really don't believe 2.5 million people play this game actively every month across all six megaservers, and I'd very much like to know how they came to find that number. The 10 million number are accounts created if I'm not mistaken. Judging by the PC NA megaserver, it honestly seems like barely anyone plays the game actively, but I think we might also be one of the smallest megaservers in terms of population. You also have to take into account what is deemed an active account. They have done a lot of events, so the numbers could be inflated due to a lot of players returning to get 5 minutes of play in for free crates or something. I think if you measure the amount of people who log on at least once per week the number would likely drop significantly.
I've logged on 2 or 3 times in the past two months, but does that make me an active player? It's quite easy to skew metrics to paint a picture like that, and I'm sure it's a nice selling point, but if I had to guess, I'd say maybe somewhere between 10-50k people play actively on the PC NA server, that's at least what it seems like, considering how long the queue times are, how few people are in cyrodiil, and the number of people you find in any given zone/big city.

idk where you play ingame but I always see players, even in a delve in some far off location i wouldnt expect to see anyone. maybe you have bad luck and get put into the low pop phases? but PC NA is booming

Well. Having played since launch, it's fairly easy to tell when there are a lot of people or not. We've got a large pvp community on the PC NA megaserver, but only one campaign is ever pop-locked during prime time, compared to when you'd have 5 simultaniously pop-locked campaigns back before Update 6. There also aren't that many problems with phasing, which is usually an easy way to tell if any given zone is being overloaded with players. If there truly are as many people playing ESO as OP claims, then one has to wonder what they are all up to..

The PvP community is a terrible method of measure for population in the game. PvP communities are notoriously minorities in MMOs with an abundant PvE scene. We know that the PvP community has had its ups and downs and was pretty healthy at one point. Its also important to note that while one server might not be going strong PvP wise, it doesnt mean others arent. I would be absolutely shocked to find all Megaservers suffering from the same issues. Including PvP inactivity. But PvPers can be a fickle bunch and will move on to a more robust and enjoyable PvP experience if they can find one. So even if PvP is left in disrepair and only continues to lose activity. The overall game can still continue on. Other MMOs have survived PvPer exodus and with the amount of content ESO has it could definitely survive one itself.

And Im not the one claiming 2.5 million are playing. I am citing the Director of the game. These are numbers he is giving. You can read the article yourself. And it doesnt matter what the players are up to, what matters is that they log, they spend money and that the continue to return month to month. It doesnt matter what you see with your eyes in the game because it is never actually reflective of the population of a whole. Its like living in a small town of 500, never leaving that town and then arguing that the total population of the country is not infact over 300 million because you only ever see the 500.

Well, that's not really the point I was trying to get across. Mostly just that it seems very inactive from my point of view, and I've heard the same echoed in other threads and from people who play more than me. My main point was that I just wonder how they come up with this figure. And while you say you are not the one "claiming" this, you did make a thread enforcing that claim, and I'm just here to question it, because I find it hard to believe. But who knows, it could be that PC NA is just a tiny portion of the overall population. I do know that PS4 and PC EU have more players, but I just can't help but wonder if this number is real.

Like just look at the past few months, they've done two free crown crates events within a short span of time and a free to play weekend. Maybe I'm just very cynical, but I feel like a company which doesn't need to buff its active player numbers or encourage more people into playing would try so hard to lure people online.

Also, my point in mentioning the PvP community is that it used to be thriving not so long ago, but a lot of them have quit because of the changes brought with Morrowind. I could also have told you how the endgame PvE community on my server has barely had any people swapped out in the past 3 years, and that a lot of prominent players have stopped as well. The vast majority of ESO's population are casual players, who are hard to really judge the numbers of, which is why I just mention the things I do know.

I think your analogy kind of misses the point. Because it's like if I judge the entire population just off my own guild, which is not what I did. The stuff I'm talking about is more like going to the capital and noticing how all the popular shops and restaurants have been closed down. Sure there might still be a lot of tourists in this analogical town, but you don't base a town's population off the tourists, you base it off the people who live there.

Now don't get me wrong, I want ESO to do well, but I am of the impression that ever since they screwed the endgame crowd over with Morrowind, the numbers have been dwindling. I doubt ZOS will ever release the actual metrics, so all we can do is decide whether we believe in the numbers they give us or not. I clearly do not.

ALSO: I cannot read the article since it has an insecure connection which my browser has blocked.

What do you think coupons are? Or free pictures of your pet/child with Santa are? These are businesses that are trying to tempt you into the store through the lure of a deal or something free.

You go to the store with the intent of taking advantage of this coupon you got in your email, the coupon says buy 50 dollars worth of merchandise and get 10 dollars off. So you go in and you grab up 50 dollars worth of product. You go to the cashier and you get your 10 dollars off your purchase. You walk out the store feeling like you just made off like a bandit for getting 10 dollars off. But its the business that is actually getting away like a bandit because without the coupon youd have likely not gone into the store and spent 40 dollars. At the end of the transaction, youre out 40 dollars and the store has just made 40 dollars profit.

And where do they put the Santa in Walmart or Petsmart? They put Santa in the back of the store, or well within the store so as you have to pass a good bit of purposely placed merchandise meant to catch your eye. You go in to get your little buddy Fiddos picture with Santa. Its free, why not? But on the way through the store you see these little shoes for dogs. You notice it but youre in a hurry to make sure you get that free picture. On your way out the store, back towards the front where the cash registers are, you decide to give those little shoes a second look. It has been cold out recently and poor little Fiddo seems to be less than enthusiastic about going out into the yard now that its colder. And Fiddo does love running around the yard. So you decide to give them a try. You go to the register and they turn out to be 24.99...While youre at the register Fiddo grabs a bully stick off the bottom shelf and starts chewing on it. Well, now you feel bad and dont want to put the bully stick back on the shelf with Fiddos drool all over it so you buy it too. You just spent 27 dollars on a Free Santa picture.

These events are nothing more than very basic tricks of the trade to get people into the game (store) and enjoying themselves. And dangling little shinys that help get you in the holiday spirit before you log out (leave the store). This is not a sign that a company is doing bad. This is a company that knows its demographic and knows how draw them in and get them to open their wallets. This is how companies prosper and grow. The customer doesnt always know they want something, especially if they dont know the product exists, until theyve entered the store or game.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

According to an article on MCV mcvuk.com/articles/publishing/ten-million-in-tamriel-the-slow-build-success-story-of-elder-scrolls-online published just 2 days ago indicates that the actual active playerbase month-to-month is in fact far smaller than the 10 million milestone ZOS likes to boast. The actual number is 2.5 million players, which is still a healthy number for an MMO, but by far nothing close to the very misleading number reflective of players that have made accounts over the life of the game.

Theres still a question of how many of those 2.5 million are actual players and not bots. But at least we now know that the game is indeed healthy.

EDIT: Fixed link to article.

I do not think anyone thought for a moment there were 10 million active players in any given month, even a given year. Zos' statements have always been clear that it was based on sales and never suggested they were all active players at the time.

Since they are not publicly traded I am actually surprised Zos would state how many active players the game has. Heck, probably the most successful MMO, let along MMORPG that is privately owned.

This right here. I never figured, outside of that 10 million number they love to throw around every chance they get, they would ever release numbers of actively playing users for a month.

BTW, that number is atrociously f'ing high for no g'damn tanks in Q. SERIOUSLY.

ESO has plenty of tanks. Many do not do random groups due to higher chance of low dps.

Outside of trials and a few select DLC dungeons... Tanks are useless and actually slow the entire group down. 3 Dps and a healer. Or 4 DPS that can sustain and self heal enough is really all that's needed outside of a trial. I've done WGT with 2 random. I'm not pulling the best DPS, but even a basic Google search will provide you with a decent enough build to do this. These snowflake builds are interesting. But at the end of the day it's all math and the highest numbers win.

Sounds like you don't play with many average dps or with really good tanks.

Lies.

Where are these so called millions of people. If millions playing how come I see the same people day in and day out in Vivec? How come IC is dead? I see the same zergs and the same solo players. Why were servers consolidated? Don't tell me they are all pve players running the same dungeons and raids over and over? Start a new toon. You'll see the overland zones are dead and a shell of what they once were at launch. Check out the numbers for steam. That's more accurate. Finally, if this game is soo popular why has it litterly fallen off the twitch charts. No ones watching cause no one cares.You would think that if millions were playing this game they would be turning a profit and would use some of those funds to fix the performance issues, bugs, cheating, and providing more content/classes on expansion releases. Soo either this game ain't that profitable, they still paying back residuals, or they Lining the CEOs pocket full of cash. Millions my arse.

LegacyDM wrote: »

Lies.
Where are these so called millions of people. If millions playing how come I see the same people day in and day out in Vivec? How come IC is dead? I see the same zergs and the same solo players. ........

PvP is only a small part of the game. .... If the only thing you ever do is PvP, OF COURSE the game isn't going to seem populated.

2,500,000 players /2 regions /3 platforms /30 days
=13,888 players as a minimum average that is consistent with ZOS statements. It cannot be lower than that. So on average you have at least 13,888 players active on any given platform in any given region on any given day. Now factor in that my gut feeling is telling me that we have around 40,000-50,000 active players a day and that this is a deliberate underestimation and I'm willing to believe the numbers.
If I had to give a range of plausibly active players per day server per day, I'd say between 13,888 and 416,666. Any lower and you are a liar, any higher and it won't be consistent with the numbers we have been given.

Take the average of that, you get 215,277 players.
Account for only 1/10 of them being logged in at any given time, you get 21,527 players logged in at any given time, which seems consistent with steam numbers if we assume 50 % of players is on steam. As the number of steam users is likely lower, I'd estimate that we have at least 21,527 concurrent players per server on average.

“We still have subscriptions and a lot of players still subscribe, it’s just optional, and so our DLC model is that if you subscribe you get access to all the DLC [for free], or you can buy them with in-game currency. So that has been very successful. And, of course, we have the Crown Store which is more for customisation and cool mounts and stuff like that and that’s done super well too.”

DLC can be bought with in-game currency? Huh?

Well, I went and did some digging...And this is what I found on Population vs Steam Threads..(FYI... The "Search Feature" at top of page is good, M'Kay?)..

1.From 7/18/14...... 775,000 active subscribers BEFORE Steam is even available for ESO
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-18-elder-scrolls-online-has-775-000-subscribers-report

2.Here is the exact same thread as we have here from Sept 2014 where they try and use Raptr's stats...(LOL...WTH is Raptr?). Note: And this is ESO at 5 months old....
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/130993/how-many-players-in-eso-currently/p1

3.Steam vs Non-Steam.... a poll from Aug 2017....PC Non Steam~54%, PC Steam~9%
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368860/which-platform-are-you-on/p1

4. From March 2015... Steam users 8%, Non Steam Users 91%
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159917/poll-steam-or-non-steam-accurate-ish-player-statistics-hang-in-the-balance

So.... Steam is a SMALL % of players, so if you take Steam Numbers into consideration about ESO Population, then, yea, ESO is doing great!!
Huzzah!!

Nerouyn wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

3.Steam vs Non-Steam.... a poll from Aug 2017....PC Non Steam~54%, PC Steam~9%
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368860/which-platform-are-you-on/p1

So.... Steam is a SMALL % of players, so if you take Steam Numbers into consideration about ESO Population, then, yea, ESO is doing great!!

Incorrect.

The correct conclusion is that the majority of users in this forum don't play via Steam.

Steam has its own forums which don't require logging in. If you're logged into the client you're logged into their forums. We would expect the majority of ESO by Steam players to use those forums when they feel the need to say something.

This is very true. What we all forgot though....
This majority of actives players never use forums of any kind...:)
My main guild has 430+ members, but only may be 20-25 of them are "Forum Warriors". So we are ALL the minority... Lol..:)

ZOS can create new content with new assets, encounters and voiceovers.
ZOS can change game mechanics
ZOS could afford implementing some major features (development speaking) like housing and revamping the whole game to implement thieving mechanics.

I have a rough idea about the budgets involved (I am a software developer IRL) and some experience about many MMOs (playing online games since 1994).

Judging a series of factors I won't bore anyone to tears about, I estimate ESO cannot have below 350-500k active subscriptions and a development branch below 60 developers (including all the various aspects, graphic designers, client developers etc.).
These numbers don't include F2P users and the so called "whales", who deliver a sizable additional amount of income.

If they actually fixed Cyrodil performance the number would probably be 15 million .

2.5 mill is waaay higher then I would have thought... and everyone knows that 10mill number is meaningless