What do you think is the weakest class spec and why? (pvp POV)

Takes-No-Prisoner · December 2017

Stam Nightblade

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jabs can't be dodged

Jabs can be dodged, in a certain way. All Templars know the skill has a blind spot behind the toon casting it. So if you see it coming, even if you get tagged by the snare on the first hit, you can roll through the enemy toon and end up behind him. It'll give you a couple of seconds to create space, while the enemy Templar swings his camera around to retarget. If we go down this theorycrafting hole a little bit more- a NB can already be cloaked by then and a Sorc can be on his second button press of Streak.

Waffennacht · December 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jabs can't be dodged

Jabs can be dodged, in a certain way. All Templars know the skill has a blind spot behind the toon casting it. So if you see it coming, even if you get tagged by the snare on the first hit, you can roll through the enemy toon and end up behind him. It'll give you a couple of seconds to create space, while the enemy Templar swings his camera around to retarget. If we go down this theorycrafting hole a little bit more- a NB can already be cloaked by then and a Sorc can be on his second button press of Streak.

I was comparing it to frag, which is 100% dodgeable and cloakable. Not so much an evaluation of jabs

DDuke · December 2017

Stam Dragonknight

As much as I'd like to say stamblade, I think stam DK has it even worse (especially in open world) vs all the undodgeable damage, and they don't really have much going for them (stamblade/warden doing burst better, stam sorc doing DoTs better, stamplar doing sustained dmg better etc).

Of course, magicka builds are still on a whole other universe when it comes to PvP viability.

Lord-Otto · December 2017

Stam Sorcerer

Waffennacht wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

For BGs/Open World I'd have to vote for the less mobile classes.

Escape>fighting

For actual combat I'd say the weakest may be.... Mag Sorc imo. It's really really telegraphed, really easy to counter if your opponent has the tools.

DKs, NBs, Wardens and Templars all have better offensive capabilities imo.

So while I think open world sorc is one of the best (cuz I'm the ginger bread man!) It's fairly weak in full on battles

I think specifically mag Templars don't have better dmg than Sorc unless you count in Dark Flare (which would then be as telegraphed and easier to counter than Sorc burst).
Warden burst and DK sustained dmg are held in check somewhat due to the necessity to be tanky enough in open world, so one could argue that similarly pets aren't used there.

That being said, I still agree mag Sorc is among the weaker classes in evenly matched encounters because of how squishy they become as soon as they are focused, but still competitive.

I would say temps have a more reliable form of offense than sorc.

Example: Purge pwns sorc, without Curse it's practically GG, reflect pwnz frag, that leaves nothing left to kill.

Dodge roll is still super effective against Sorc

Jabs can't be dodged and heals, similar burst with Light. Much better heals, along with Purge.

Sorc has a great Execute and Mobility, making it a great choice in BGs and that's about it.

I'd much rather take a Templar to a duel than a sorc

But OMGROFLBBQ quintuple shieldstackzzz! Super duper OP!
(^_-)

I think stam sorcs are weaker than stam DKs, tbh. DKs can be quite tanky, at least. But sorcs really only have risky moves like Dark Deal and Streak that only work when not being gapclosed 24/7 - which never happens.

Kartalin · December 2017

Looking at the four lowest vote getters, we basically can surmise what people feel are the strongest: stamden, magplar, stamplar, magdk. Though they're are all strong in different ways. In no sense would you call magplar a particularly strong solo class, but in groups of size 2+ magplars are very strong.

Waffennacht · December 2017

Kartalin wrote: »

Looking at the four lowest vote getters, we basically can surmise what people feel are the strongest: stamden, magplar, stamplar, magdk. Though they're are all strong in different ways. In no sense would you call magplar a particularly strong solo class, but in groups of size 2+ magplars are very strong.

Imo if you were to swap out stamplar for mag NB, then put stamplar right underneath that lot.

And why? Simply the others just have a bit more in their tool kit

Xsorus · December 2017

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solo - Magplar/Mag NB/Magden

Smallscale - none

Group - Stam nb/Stamplar/stamdk

You think Magicka NB is weak solo?

Toast_STS · December 2017

Stam Sorcerer

Buff orcs

Edit: not a typo

kaithuzar · December 2017

Nag Nightblade

Xsorus wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solo - Magplar/Mag NB/Magden

Smallscale - none

Group - Stam nb/Stamplar/stamdk

You think Magicka NB is weak solo?

Are we talking solo 1v1 or solo 1vX because open world sucks with broken shade

Enslaved · December 2017

Mag Warden

Out of magicka classes, mWar, imho.
Out of stamina classes, sDK atm, since its sustain compared to few patches ago is much worse. Pretty much both these classes require you to be Saxhleel to have easier time in Cyro.

Derra · December 2017

Stam Sorcerer

Waffennacht wrote: »

For BGs/Open World I'd have to vote for the less mobile classes.

Escape>fighting

For actual combat I'd say the weakest may be.... Mag Sorc imo. It's really really telegraphed, really easy to counter if your opponent has the tools.

DKs, NBs, Wardens and Templars all have better offensive capabilities imo.

So while I think open world sorc is one of the best (cuz I'm the ginger bread man!) It's fairly weak in full on battles

Agree with this statement - though magsorc can still force a draw against almost every spec which isn´t possible for stamsorc for example.

WillhelmBlack · December 2017

Stam Warden

Subversus · December 2017

Nag Nightblade

kaithuzar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solo - Magplar/Mag NB/Magden

Smallscale - none

Group - Stam nb/Stamplar/stamdk

You think Magicka NB is weak solo?

Are we talking solo 1v1 or solo 1vX because open world sucks with broken shade

This exactly. Until magblade gets shade back it's gonna retain its place as the weakest open world imo (we aren't talking 1v1 as I understand).

And please don't tell me how cloak is a good escape tool, I'd much rather have dk permablock at that point.

ak_pvp · December 2017

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

Minno · December 2017

Mag Templar

Subversus wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Solo - Magplar/Mag NB/Magden

Smallscale - none

Group - Stam nb/Stamplar/stamdk

You think Magicka NB is weak solo?

Are we talking solo 1v1 or solo 1vX because open world sucks with broken shade

This exactly. Until magblade gets shade back it's gonna retain its place as the weakest open world imo (we aren't talking 1v1 as I understand).

And please don't tell me how cloak is a good escape tool, I'd much rather have dk permablock at that point.

I can agree with that. Now magblades painfully understand why magplars want more mobilty options lol

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Stam Dragonknight

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

I wouldn't call stamblade weak in open world.
Most people build for ganking, that is the issue.

Build for open world and It performs fine. not stam warden good, but Its the second best , argueably even better than warden in some cases.

That does not mean I don't want to see bug fixes tho.
I'm just telling that stamblades are the reason most people don't play medium armor anymore.

Takes-No-Prisoner · December 2017

Stam Nightblade

I doubt the consensus is that the Nightblade variants are weak. That class really belongs to people who can bring out the strengths of the class.

It's one of the more polarizing classes to work with from my experience. It does one thing, REALLY damn good, just don't expect to group with people and be useful 100% of the time.

DDuke · December 2017

Stam Dragonknight

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

I wouldn't call stamblade weak in open world.
Most people build for ganking, that is the issue.

Build for open world and It performs fine. not stam warden good, but Its the second best , argueably even better than warden in some cases.

That does not mean I don't want to see bug fixes tho.
I'm just telling that stamblades are the reason most people don't play medium armor anymore.

The thing with stamblade is that it's a one trick pony.

You get nice burst (not the best in the game, that's Warden territory) & escape tools, but that's about it. Burst fails, what you gonna do? Escape or die. Or Xv1 with a pocket healer, like majority of stamina builds these days.

And that's not just gankblades, that's any stamblade that relies on dodge roll as main defensive mechanic.

Meanwhile, I can log my mag DK and get very close to the same burst damage, while also getting good survivability & practically free kills on medium armor builds (still lots of them out there) since every skill on my bar (except non-proc flame lash) is undodgeable, Empowering Chains means no kiting/escaping and Volatile Armor means no cloaking.

ak_pvp · December 2017

Kartalin wrote: »

Looking at the four lowest vote getters, we basically can surmise what people feel are the strongest: stamden, magplar, stamplar, magdk. Though they're are all strong in different ways. In no sense would you call magplar a particularly strong solo class, but in groups of size 2+ magplars are very strong.

Stamden aside, the other classes aren't seen as weak due to different reasons. For instance a magplar is abysmal as a 1vXer, but by far the best class for groups. Similar with DK, abysmal openworld, but one of the best in a duel. Stamplar is an overall OK class, but not really top, classes like magsorc, and both NBs both have more mobility and damage, assuming they are functioning.

Vermintide · December 2017

Nag Nightblade

Magblade, cause I play it and get rekt constantly. Nothing to do with my skill, the class is obviously under-powered.

Nah, jk. But really though I think the way this class works could do with refining. In general, the fact that you have to put in so much effort to get your burst compared to other classes who can basically just hit a couple buttons for the same result, feels like we're kinda getting the short end of the stick. We get a bunch of fun and interesting abilities that really stand out compared to the other classes, but a lot of those abilities are clunky and unreliable, if not outright bugged.

Still my favourite class though. When I watch a video of someone owning on a stamsorc or whatever, I feel like I'm just watching a cheese build, but on magblade it's seriously impressive.

glavius · December 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

I wouldn't call stamblade weak in open world.
Most people build for ganking, that is the issue.

Build for open world and It performs fine. not stam warden good, but Its the second best , argueably even better than warden in some cases.

That does not mean I don't want to see bug fixes tho.
I'm just telling that stamblades are the reason most people don't play medium armor anymore.

The thing with stamblade is that it's a one trick pony.

You get nice burst (not the best in the game, that's Warden territory) & escape tools, but that's about it. Burst fails, what you gonna do? Escape or die. Or Xv1 with a pocket healer, like majority of stamina builds these days.

And that's not just gankblades, that's any stamblade that relies on dodge roll as main defensive mechanic.

Meanwhile, I can log my mag DK and get very close to the same burst damage, while also getting good survivability & practically free kills on medium armor builds (still lots of them out there) since every skill on my bar (except non-proc flame lash) is undodgeable, Empowering Chains means no kiting/escaping and Volatile Armor means no cloaking.

I'd say stamblade in heavy armor is far from a one trick pony. Great burst, great sustain, and able to hold it's ground against anyone.

DDuke · December 2017

Stam Dragonknight

glavius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

I wouldn't call stamblade weak in open world.
Most people build for ganking, that is the issue.

Build for open world and It performs fine. not stam warden good, but Its the second best , argueably even better than warden in some cases.

That does not mean I don't want to see bug fixes tho.
I'm just telling that stamblades are the reason most people don't play medium armor anymore.

The thing with stamblade is that it's a one trick pony.

You get nice burst (not the best in the game, that's Warden territory) & escape tools, but that's about it. Burst fails, what you gonna do? Escape or die. Or Xv1 with a pocket healer, like majority of stamina builds these days.

And that's not just gankblades, that's any stamblade that relies on dodge roll as main defensive mechanic.

Meanwhile, I can log my mag DK and get very close to the same burst damage, while also getting good survivability & practically free kills on medium armor builds (still lots of them out there) since every skill on my bar (except non-proc flame lash) is undodgeable, Empowering Chains means no kiting/escaping and Volatile Armor means no cloaking.

I'd say stamblade in heavy armor is far from a one trick pony. Great burst, great sustain, and able to hold it's ground against anyone.

In duels, certainly - but I'm not so sure about open world.

Granted, I haven't seen many of those in Cyrodiil as most people seem to be playing either Xv1 rollerblades or gank builds.

ToRelax · December 2017

.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Looking at the four lowest vote getters, we basically can surmise what people feel are the strongest: stamden, magplar, stamplar, magdk. Though they're are all strong in different ways. In no sense would you call magplar a particularly strong solo class, but in groups of size 2+ magplars are very strong.

Stamden aside, the other classes aren't seen as weak due to different reasons. For instance a magplar is abysmal as a 1vXer, but by far the best class for groups. Similar with DK, abysmal openworld, but one of the best in a duel. Stamplar is an overall OK class, but not really top, classes like magsorc, and both NBs both have more mobility and damage, assuming they are functioning.

Stamplar has crazy damage, but needs to stay in melee for it and doesn't have great mobility.

glavius · December 2017

DDuke wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mag/stamblade is only in the shitter due to nonfunctional abilities. It is generally a strong class overall and I sure hope people don't actually think its weak.

I wouldn't call stamblade weak in open world.
Most people build for ganking, that is the issue.

Build for open world and It performs fine. not stam warden good, but Its the second best , argueably even better than warden in some cases.

That does not mean I don't want to see bug fixes tho.
I'm just telling that stamblades are the reason most people don't play medium armor anymore.

The thing with stamblade is that it's a one trick pony.

You get nice burst (not the best in the game, that's Warden territory) & escape tools, but that's about it. Burst fails, what you gonna do? Escape or die. Or Xv1 with a pocket healer, like majority of stamina builds these days.

And that's not just gankblades, that's any stamblade that relies on dodge roll as main defensive mechanic.

Meanwhile, I can log my mag DK and get very close to the same burst damage, while also getting good survivability & practically free kills on medium armor builds (still lots of them out there) since every skill on my bar (except non-proc flame lash) is undodgeable, Empowering Chains means no kiting/escaping and Volatile Armor means no cloaking.

I'd say stamblade in heavy armor is far from a one trick pony. Great burst, great sustain, and able to hold it's ground against anyone.

In duels, certainly - but I'm not so sure about open world.

Granted, I haven't seen many of those in Cyrodiil as most people seem to be playing either Xv1 rollerblades or gank builds.

Works absolutely fine for 1 v. x also :-)
Better than any other class/build I tried.

TheDoomsdayMonster · December 2017

Stam Nightblade

All the class's are strong with the right player at the controls...

But if you twisted my arm and forced me to choose one for the weakest, it would be a Stamina Nightblade...why?

Because if there is a potato at the controls of one, they are super-duper squishy and die without offering much resistance...

If you have a potato at the controls of a Templar or Dragon Knight, they'll still die fast, but not as fast as a bad Stamblade will...

Subversus · December 2017

Nag Nightblade

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

If you have a potato at the controls of a Templar or Dragon Knight, they'll still die fast, but not as fast as a bad Stamblade will...

That makes no sense... if anything they'll die harder because they can spam rolldodge and cloak??? Potato DKs and templars are the absolute easiest to kill cause they don't do damage and they can't stay alive and they can't stall their death with cloak either?

TheDoomsdayMonster · December 2017

Stam Nightblade

Subversus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

If you have a potato at the controls of a Templar or Dragon Knight, they'll still die fast, but not as fast as a bad Stamblade will...

That makes no sense... if anything they'll die harder because they can spam rolldodge and cloak??? Potato DKs and templars are the absolute easiest to kill cause they don't do damage and they can't stay alive and they can't stall their death with cloak either?

It makes perfect sense from my experience...

I've had many potato Stamblades fire arrows at me from range, and continue to do so even when I've closed in on them; combined with their already low damage soak, they go down very very easy (the true potatos don't even dodge roll properly; they try to dodge roll away from me, not through me as they should or they run from me in a straight line...and I can just continuously gap close them until the CC sets in and then I kill them)...

From my experience, potato Temps and Dragonknights make a lot of mistakes as well, but atleast they have a bit more durability than the Stamblade, so it takes a bit longer to kill them...