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Stamblade 52.6k DPS self buffed 3mil burst... It just got higher!
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aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭What did you pair with WM?
And if you don't have WM, what would you pair with VO?
For dummies or for raids?
In all the parses that are in the OP, I use Two Fanged and Kra'gh as my main sets and either WM or VO active only on the front bar. In raids, instead of Two-Fanged, I use Hunding's and instead of Kra'gh I use Velidreth. BUT, that's only because other people in my group wear NMG and Sunderflame (Tank is providing Infused Torug's Crusher enchant annd a Stamplar provides Minor Fracture).
Btw, I thought it was pretty clear from the parse, in Combat Metrics you can see Two-Fanged Snake stack uptimes.
what about for VMA? i'm considering NMG, hundings or briarheart at the moment. Am also slowly coming to the conclusion VO daggers are a myth
0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What did you pair with WM?
And if you don't have WM, what would you pair with VO?
For dummies or for raids?
In all the parses that are in the OP, I use Two Fanged and Kra'gh as my main sets and either WM or VO active only on the front bar. In raids, instead of Two-Fanged, I use Hunding's and instead of Kra'gh I use Velidreth. BUT, that's only because other people in my group wear NMG and Sunderflame (Tank is providing Infused Torug's Crusher enchant annd a Stamplar provides Minor Fracture).
Btw, I thought it was pretty clear from the parse, in Combat Metrics you can see Two-Fanged Snake stack uptimes.
what about for VMA? i'm considering NMG, hundings or briarheart at the moment. Am also slowly coming to the conclusion VO daggers are a myth
5 NMG (3 body 2 weapons), 5 VO (3 Jewelry, 2 body). Warrior Mundus. Which is basically Blackmore's setup, you should check his stuff out on YT.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭brilliant thanks, especially for the Blackmore tip - had not come across him before
Aeo
EDIT presumably Blockmore
blame the autocorrect! Edited by aeowulf on November 12, 2017 3:14PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brilliant thanks, especially for the Blackmore tip - had not come across him before
Aeo
EDIT presumably Blockmore blame the autocorrect!
Yeah it was an A back when he was on Xbox and then he moved over to PC and it became an O haha@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bladerunner1 wrote: »Oh a result of ZOS balance.. some classes touch 50k and get buff after buff while other get useless *** and get nerfs for useful skills...
This really show ecatly that ZOS fails in balancing..
But gj, i am sure you can hold 45k DPS or more on the 6kk dummie.
Other classes need to play with 4 arms and 20fingers to hit 35k DPS there..isnt funny at all..
The difference between stamina and magicka DPS is too high again too. Damageoutput for magickaplayer is too low... they have too less buffs to reach that high numbers..
It's pretty awesome seeing a Stamblade hit those numbers, they were dead last as far as DPS goes less than a year ago. They have the most given self buffs that any group should be providing anyway, and the rotation is very complicated, like running up to a boss and lining up the faces of a rubix cube to get that much damage. Almost half the damage from a Stamblade comes from direct damage attacks, the moment a boss mechanic takes place the DPS drops off to non-existence as they chase down the boss again.
Every rotation is easy learnable since we have the DPS dummies snd can train them 24/7.. So we dont have really hard rotations anymore.
Yet the more complex rotations can be upended entirely as soon as a boss mechanic takes place.
I mean, after doing a rotation the 10000time, you dont really to think about it. Your hands doing it nearly without you and just with your memory, while you can concentrate to boss mechanics
Dont say me its wrong. After learning and doing a rotation a very long time its like an automatism.
Doing a rotation the 10000time on pure muscle memory doesn't bring back a lost 45K damage Assassin's Scourge proc, or lost 50k damage Killers blades.
You don't understand how the average DPS is calculated, let me explain.
Direct damage like Assassin's Scourge is a big component of Stamblade DPS. Stamblades only get two opportunities for Assassin's Scourge every twenty seconds. If you miss one or a couple light or heavy attacks because of a boss mechanic, you miss one of two procs of the 2nd biggest direct damage attack in a Stamblade arsenal, plain and simple. Even if you have perfect muscle memory it's not bringing back the missed 45,000 damage opportunity that now has to wait for another re-application of Relentless Focus. The average DPS drops significantly.
Some other classes have the opportunity to pick up where they left off, apply their high DPS DOTs that they missed during the boss mechanic and keep going. Activation of their big DOT skills isn't dependant on time and they have the ability to keep them active with higher frequency, which results in relatively higher DPS.
If the boss mechanic takes place below 25% health and/or the Stamblade has to stand >8ft away, their average DPS for the fight hits floor level. As soon as a Stamblade loses the opportunity to spam a few of the 50k Killers Blades, which is a huge skill that inflates DPS on a target dummy, no amount of muscle memory is lifting their average to what other classes can pull.
Stop drawing your conclusions from target skeleton parses.
I know, that its not easy to make DPS as nightblade. But with enough practice you do that automatically like any other class. A miss from 1 skill and not hitting this 45k damage skills could really be a problem. The real problem is, that no other class can do this numbers. The finisher on my templar for example is dealing 40-45k damage per tick every sec. This damage is the same like your common skills can do all time. There is something wrong in my eyes, but ok..
True is, that stamina DDs need to deal more damage, because of more movement in fight and other stuff, but the difference between magicka and stamina DPS is to high actually. Stamina builds really get much more support over sets and 5 stamina DDs on meleerange really increase there damage like hell. I know guys who put 60k singletarget DPS on some bossfights allready... and this is just the singletarget DPS!
But this should be discutated on another thread...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma. @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not exactly true for PvE. Without Sorcs, you've got no Alkosh since the uptime on that highly relies on the synergy from Liquid Lightning as well as Shards and Orbs. You ose the Sorcs, you lose the Alkosh. You lose the Sorcs and you lose a huge chunk of Concussion uptime and therefore, Off-balance uptime. Sorcs are also the highest AoE DPS class in the game at the moment. I'd say, keeping all that in mind, that Sorcs are a great support class for raids while still having great single target DPS. They are crucial in every raid group.
In PvP, I still think that with Rune Prison this class is even more deadly than before.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
@Izaki do you still keep the same bar setup and rotation if you do not have war machine yet? I'm asking mostly for Flawless Dawnbreaker and Incap strikes. Currently I have Flawless slotted on the front bar and Incap on the bow bar, but I don't run War Machine.
Im running the standard bow bar setup with PI, Caltrops, Rearming Trap, Endless hail and for the 5th slot I'm running Leeching Strikes since I'm using Incap as my Ultimate so that covers for my Hemorrhage passive.Edited by Surreal88 on December 21, 2017 12:08PM0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭FINALLY:
With War Machine:
Without War Machine (Vicious Ophidian instead):
(I'm way more proud of the second parse)
So yeah... I normally wouldn't post this because its totally irrelevant, the fight lasts less than a minute, I did only like 6 heavy attacks, I have access to Minor Berserk and Major Fracture while self buffed, War Machine is ridiculous, etc. But still pretty proud of getting over 50k with 250 ping on the PTS.
EDIT on Live Server: Vicious Ophidian is actually just as good as War Machine in terms of solo DPS (both average and peak numbers), but War Machine is obviously more beneficial in a group. Here's a clip where I hit 51.1k with VO so you can see what I'm doing. Note that I'm using double Daggers over an Axe because its what I use in raids. Axe is higher DPS in single target however, IF you get lucky and get many procs. I'm using Nirnhoned on the main hand and Infused on the off-hand
Anyway, here's the clip:
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/video/39353820
Its totally pointless to test Stamblade on the 3mil dummies now, since they just have access to a very strong buff (Minor Berserk) and since they can keep up Major Fracture with about 90% uptime without even bothering. The fight is just way too short to give you any insight on what's happening. But its still fun smashing the poor skeleton, right? From this parse, one might say that Stamblades are absolutely OP compared to other classes, but remember, 3mil dummies don't represent DPS numbers in real raid situations at all. So don't ask for nerfs pls!(In fact to reassure those who might be worried about the overperformance of NBs, I'm gonna link a 6mil dummy parse which is much less menacing and more in line with other classes: https://imgur.com/AFS0y0S )
Anyways, just wanted to share this achievement of mine
Nice.. you are the man (or woman, if you are.) However, I doubt you will get even fracturely close to that when fighting a real, live dummy as a world boss or something. What's that iconic line from Bloodsport.. oh yeah, "Brick no hit back." Ha ha0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭True is, that stamina DDs need to deal more damage, because of more movement in fight and other stuff, but the difference between magicka and stamina DPS is to high actually. Stamina builds really get much more support over sets and 5 stamina DDs on meleerange really increase there damage like hell. I know guys who put 60k singletarget DPS on some bossfights allready... and this is just the singletarget DPS!
But this should be discutated on another thread...
I have NB in stamina(4) and in magicka(5) and it is a lot easier for the magickaNB to bring down constant DMG on bosses and in raids as it is for the stamblades.
In fact ZOS wrecked the stamblades and most staminabuilds ever since the massive nerfs got on the road.
You need Stamina to dodge, to sprint, for all and everything, and with magicka you only have to do one thing: DAMAGE
as I had a dispute with some guy of Hodor, he also meant it was so easypeasy for stamblades, he went offline as I asked why it was then that we don´t see any stamblades in any raidvideo from Hodor!!!
So much to that. And I don´t ask for a nerf for magicka, I just long to see a better balance brought up by ZOS, I would love it if they finally made it possible to seperate PvP and PVE in sets and the way abilities, skills and the like work out here and there. Cauze this is not solved by nerfing this and that, but by balance. Many brilliant sets and abilities were wrecked by unnecessary nerfs, and nothing came instead.
so the gameplay is dried up from the inside, and yeah after some time there are just bones leftEdited by Azurya on December 21, 2017 2:13PM1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Izaki do you still keep the same bar setup and rotation if you do not have war machine yet? I'm asking mostly for Flawless Dawnbreaker and Incap strikes. Currently I have Flawless slotted on the front bar and Incap on the bow bar, but I don't run War Machine.
Im running the standard bow bar setup with PI, Caltrops, Rearming Trap, Endless hail and for the 5th slot I'm running Leeching Strikes since I'm using Incap as my Ultimate so that covers for my Hemorrhage passive.
@Surreal88 yeah I keep everything the same no matter what gear I use. However, I never use Flawless on the front bar and Incap on the back bar, I do it the other way round. Reason 1, is that the rotation becomes much more efficient in terms of empowering your DoTs with Incap. Reason 2, is that Incap itself does more damage. Reason 3, is that it helps to eliminate mis-casts and bugged bar swaps entirely, so your Incap will always go off. The only downside, is the fact that you down have the Hemorrhage passive on the back bar, but frankly, I haven't noticed too much of a DPS loss at all.
In some fights however, if I'm not required to use War Machine, I will switch Flawless to the front bar and use Ballista as my main ultimate. In trash packs, I use Shooting Star. When using War Machine I usually run Soul Harvest, which really boosts the uptime on fights with lots of adds.Edited by Izaki on December 21, 2017 2:59PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »FINALLY:
With War Machine:
Without War Machine (Vicious Ophidian instead):
(I'm way more proud of the second parse)
So yeah... I normally wouldn't post this because its totally irrelevant, the fight lasts less than a minute, I did only like 6 heavy attacks, I have access to Minor Berserk and Major Fracture while self buffed, War Machine is ridiculous, etc. But still pretty proud of getting over 50k with 250 ping on the PTS.
EDIT on Live Server: Vicious Ophidian is actually just as good as War Machine in terms of solo DPS (both average and peak numbers), but War Machine is obviously more beneficial in a group. Here's a clip where I hit 51.1k with VO so you can see what I'm doing. Note that I'm using double Daggers over an Axe because its what I use in raids. Axe is higher DPS in single target however, IF you get lucky and get many procs. I'm using Nirnhoned on the main hand and Infused on the off-hand
Anyway, here's the clip:
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/video/39353820
Its totally pointless to test Stamblade on the 3mil dummies now, since they just have access to a very strong buff (Minor Berserk) and since they can keep up Major Fracture with about 90% uptime without even bothering. The fight is just way too short to give you any insight on what's happening. But its still fun smashing the poor skeleton, right? From this parse, one might say that Stamblades are absolutely OP compared to other classes, but remember, 3mil dummies don't represent DPS numbers in real raid situations at all. So don't ask for nerfs pls!(In fact to reassure those who might be worried about the overperformance of NBs, I'm gonna link a 6mil dummy parse which is much less menacing and more in line with other classes: https://imgur.com/AFS0y0S )
Anyways, just wanted to share this achievement of mine
Nice.. you are the man (or woman, if you are.) However, I doubt you will get even fracturely close to that when fighting a real, live dummy as a world boss or something. What's that iconic line from Bloodsport.. oh yeah, "Brick no hit back." Ha ha
I usually get more than that in raids @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hold on, infused off-hand is buffing both dual wield enchants now? When did this happen, sounds game changing for stamina DPS.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma.
Yeah, I have Briarheart but right now the weapons are over on my stamDK.
I get that VO + WM has a duplicate 3-piece bonus ... but from the preliminary testing I've done it *should* be pretty similar to VO + Hunding's where Hunding's is only active on the front bar. I would love to run VO + Hunding's but then what am I doing for the group? Minor Savagery? Already got magblades providing that anyway. Might as well just run my stamDK and sleepwalk my way to 65k DPS single-target with far better AoE. I guess the key here will be doing sufficient group parses to determine if my DPS loss by using WM pays off by increasing the DPS of the melee DPS around me.
I have not been able to work out an effective rotation without VO on both bars (as a Khajiit non-vampire) that I can sustain indefinitely and still consistently hit 65k+ in a raid parse. I had been running either WM + NMG or WM + Hunding's for quite a while, and I could hit 65k on a really lucky parse, but my stamina pool was drained at the end and it was not fun to run in Trials. I have tried Stormfist and not really had much success; would probably have to rethink the rotation again to make that work ... plus Velidreth is just so awesome on a lot of fights.
Particularly right now we're progressing in vHoF and I just can't run that terrible, awful, no good, very bad Trial without VO.
As far as axe/dagger ... the thing I wonder ... a stamblade is the purest single-target build in the game. So, do I really care about boosting my AoE DPS by ~3% with an extra dagger versus the single-target benefit of the axe? At that point, I guess I'm back in the mindset of "shouldn't I just run my stamDK that's so easy to play that a monkey could do it?" At least the way I use my stamblade in my group, I try to be the priority target killer (Sun Eaters, Overchargers, bombers, etc.), stick on the boss in execute when other players may have to turn focus elsewhere, etc. But since I'm unable to see actual content parses (shame on ZOS for not having a Combat Metrics-like feature built in to the game), it's hard to tell what's up with an axe or dagger outside of its impact on a single-target 52mil skeleteon parse (although we have stacked 6mil and 3mil skeletons around the big skeleton to test, and I did not see a significant benefit from running dual daggers there ... it was maybe 500-1000 additional DPS on average on the AoE targets).
Anyway, thanks for the insight; I'll keep banging away at the 51mil dummy trying to get something figured out, but have been very happy with the VO + NMG or VO + Hunding's combos so far, so thanks for all the help here and elsewhere that got me there!
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LiquidPony/screenshot/7946469 (VO + NMG)0 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm just finishing out my WM set (just started, really, but got lucky on my first run) but it will be my weapon set vs. my jewelry set. I currently run Hundings weapons and VO jewelry. When I finish WM, I know I don't want to pair it with VO, but which would be better, TFS or Spriggans on the jewelry?0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Hopefully anyone would look at how lucky your crit values were compared to your actual crit rating and realize there's no nerfing to be done. A big reason why I've always spoken against 3mil dummies, even if they are fun. My own personal the first time I put on 5 War Machine on PTS done with Rank 1 Incap and Smiting Dawnbreaker instead of Flawless;
Yep, it all comes down to lucky crits! Although, my Surprise Attack, Poison enchant and Ravage Health were only around 45% and Trap was at 39%
Great job on that one man, I really didn't think that it would be possible to reach Redguard numbers on a Khajiit, you're making me regret my race change right now! And you did that with Dubious food!?!? And looks like you're keeping up Rending Slashes in execute phase, is that worth it? I never took the time to test whether its better or not, I just kind of assumed that since Killer's Blade tooltip is high that it wasn't...
I'm actually using Soul Harvest since that's what I use on Live, I really like the synergy with War Machine in fights with adds.
PS: That Twin Blade and Blunt DPS and that Poison enchant crit rate :O
What do you mean by "rending slashes in execute" phase. The skill is what it is, I assume its the same thing all the time except when buffed by something like major brutality.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma.
Yeah, I have Briarheart but right now the weapons are over on my stamDK.
I get that VO + WM has a duplicate 3-piece bonus ... but from the preliminary testing I've done it *should* be pretty similar to VO + Hunding's where Hunding's is only active on the front bar. I would love to run VO + Hunding's but then what am I doing for the group? Minor Savagery? Already got magblades providing that anyway. Might as well just run my stamDK and sleepwalk my way to 65k DPS single-target with far better AoE. I guess the key here will be doing sufficient group parses to determine if my DPS loss by using WM pays off by increasing the DPS of the melee DPS around me.
I have not been able to work out an effective rotation without VO on both bars (as a Khajiit non-vampire) that I can sustain indefinitely and still consistently hit 65k+ in a raid parse. I had been running either WM + NMG or WM + Hunding's for quite a while, and I could hit 65k on a really lucky parse, but my stamina pool was drained at the end and it was not fun to run in Trials. I have tried Stormfist and not really had much success; would probably have to rethink the rotation again to make that work ... plus Velidreth is just so awesome on a lot of fights.
Particularly right now we're progressing in vHoF and I just can't run that terrible, awful, no good, very bad Trial without VO.
As far as axe/dagger ... the thing I wonder ... a stamblade is the purest single-target build in the game. So, do I really care about boosting my AoE DPS by ~3% with an extra dagger versus the single-target benefit of the axe? At that point, I guess I'm back in the mindset of "shouldn't I just run my stamDK that's so easy to play that a monkey could do it?" At least the way I use my stamblade in my group, I try to be the priority target killer (Sun Eaters, Overchargers, bombers, etc.), stick on the boss in execute when other players may have to turn focus elsewhere, etc. But since I'm unable to see actual content parses (shame on ZOS for not having a Combat Metrics-like feature built in to the game), it's hard to tell what's up with an axe or dagger outside of its impact on a single-target 52mil skeleteon parse (although we have stacked 6mil and 3mil skeletons around the big skeleton to test, and I did not see a significant benefit from running dual daggers there ... it was maybe 500-1000 additional DPS on average on the AoE targets).
Anyway, thanks for the insight; I'll keep banging away at the 51mil dummy trying to get something figured out, but have been very happy with the VO + NMG or VO + Hunding's combos so far, so thanks for all the help here and elsewhere that got me there!
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LiquidPony/screenshot/7946469 (VO + NMG)LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma.
Yeah, I have Briarheart but right now the weapons are over on my stamDK.
I get that VO + WM has a duplicate 3-piece bonus ... but from the preliminary testing I've done it *should* be pretty similar to VO + Hunding's where Hunding's is only active on the front bar. I would love to run VO + Hunding's but then what am I doing for the group? Minor Savagery? Already got magblades providing that anyway. Might as well just run my stamDK and sleepwalk my way to 65k DPS single-target with far better AoE. I guess the key here will be doing sufficient group parses to determine if my DPS loss by using WM pays off by increasing the DPS of the melee DPS around me.
I have not been able to work out an effective rotation without VO on both bars (as a Khajiit non-vampire) that I can sustain indefinitely and still consistently hit 65k+ in a raid parse. I had been running either WM + NMG or WM + Hunding's for quite a while, and I could hit 65k on a really lucky parse, but my stamina pool was drained at the end and it was not fun to run in Trials. I have tried Stormfist and not really had much success; would probably have to rethink the rotation again to make that work ... plus Velidreth is just so awesome on a lot of fights.
Particularly right now we're progressing in vHoF and I just can't run that terrible, awful, no good, very bad Trial without VO.
As far as axe/dagger ... the thing I wonder ... a stamblade is the purest single-target build in the game. So, do I really care about boosting my AoE DPS by ~3% with an extra dagger versus the single-target benefit of the axe? At that point, I guess I'm back in the mindset of "shouldn't I just run my stamDK that's so easy to play that a monkey could do it?" At least the way I use my stamblade in my group, I try to be the priority target killer (Sun Eaters, Overchargers, bombers, etc.), stick on the boss in execute when other players may have to turn focus elsewhere, etc. But since I'm unable to see actual content parses (shame on ZOS for not having a Combat Metrics-like feature built in to the game), it's hard to tell what's up with an axe or dagger outside of its impact on a single-target 52mil skeleteon parse (although we have stacked 6mil and 3mil skeletons around the big skeleton to test, and I did not see a significant benefit from running dual daggers there ... it was maybe 500-1000 additional DPS on average on the AoE targets).
Anyway, thanks for the insight; I'll keep banging away at the 51mil dummy trying to get something figured out, but have been very happy with the VO + NMG or VO + Hunding's combos so far, so thanks for all the help here and elsewhere that got me there!
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LiquidPony/screenshot/7946469 (VO + NMG)
Don't think like that! Stamblades have the highest DPS between 25-0%. That's something that no other stamina class has! Another thing is the fact that we have Minor Berserk, and on consoles, the Combat Prayer uptimes are never as high as they could/should be due to the absence of proper buff tracker (ZOS u suck, but I luv u anyway). So that's a pretty good advantage there as well. Although, I don't get the argument of DKs having WAY more AoE than Stamblades: they just have Standard and maybe Noxious Breath (if the DK is actually using it), I'd say that overall, it would net around 3-4k extra AoE DPS. Is that really worth it over more burst in execute phase and most likely higher single target DPS due to the fact that you have a guaranteed 100% uptime on Minor Berserk? I'm not so sure. But yeah, the primary function of the NB is the burst in execute IMO. The War Machine is just a plus, but I personally don't like that set.
As far as WM + VO goes, it would be similar to Hunding's IF you didn't waste the 3 piece bonus. Because the 5pc bonus of WM and Hunding's nets more or less the same DPS (but not the same burst overall on a 3mil dummy for example). So you'd be losing say either 4% Crit or 1.1k Stam, which would be about 2-3% DPS roughly.
What I meant about the Axe is that its not so much the AoE aspect that bothers me, its the RNG. The bleed can proc from Deadly Cloak. So imagine the bleed proccing on the Hulk or the Atro instead of the boss. You'd be losing DPS. So the Dagger is more reliable. Plus when running War Machine, your crit chance is usually pretty low, so that's another benefit (unless you're a Khajiit obviously). Other times, you might gain some DPS with the Axe when it constantly procs on the right target. And either way, the extra crit will be giving you more DPS after a certain threshold. I seriously can't be bothered calculating it right now, but basically, you'd need to take the DPS from the Axe and compare it to the % DPS increase that the extra crit provides depending on the Major Force uptimes. From there you can figure out that threshold where the dagger becomes better than axe.
You tried running Dubious with 5-1-1? You're gonna lose about 2k stamina, but the sustain you're gonna get is going to give you more deeps in the end on longer fights. Or you could just go with 1 recovery glyph or something. I personally use a recovery glyph in most fights where I need to block or break free a lot. You lose DPS, but its better than *** the RT button.
As far as the monster set goes: Selene is where its at. For all the bosses where the hitbox isn't huge (aka for everything but Varlariel, Ra Kotu and Hunters Killers) and where AoE isn't exactly needed, Selene will give you the most DPS by far.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Hopefully anyone would look at how lucky your crit values were compared to your actual crit rating and realize there's no nerfing to be done. A big reason why I've always spoken against 3mil dummies, even if they are fun. My own personal the first time I put on 5 War Machine on PTS done with Rank 1 Incap and Smiting Dawnbreaker instead of Flawless;
Yep, it all comes down to lucky crits! Although, my Surprise Attack, Poison enchant and Ravage Health were only around 45% and Trap was at 39%
Great job on that one man, I really didn't think that it would be possible to reach Redguard numbers on a Khajiit, you're making me regret my race change right now! And you did that with Dubious food!?!? And looks like you're keeping up Rending Slashes in execute phase, is that worth it? I never took the time to test whether its better or not, I just kind of assumed that since Killer's Blade tooltip is high that it wasn't...
I'm actually using Soul Harvest since that's what I use on Live, I really like the synergy with War Machine in fights with adds.
PS: That Twin Blade and Blunt DPS and that Poison enchant crit rate :O
What do you mean by "rending slashes in execute" phase. The skill is what it is, I assume its the same thing all the time except when buffed by something like major brutality.
There's a DW passive that increases the damage of your DW abilities by 20% when target is under 25% health.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm just finishing out my WM set (just started, really, but got lucky on my first run) but it will be my weapon set vs. my jewelry set. I currently run Hundings weapons and VO jewelry. When I finish WM, I know I don't want to pair it with VO, but which would be better, TFS or Spriggans on the jewelry?
Yeah... Get Briarheart! Spriggans just sucks, and TFS is useless in raids... Ideally you'd obviously want the WM on the weapons and jewelry and the Hunding's on the body. Or you could just run Briarheart on the jewelry and the body, which isn't that great, but its only slightly worse than Hunding's. I'd say that's you best option at the moment @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Hold on, infused off-hand is buffing both dual wield enchants now? When did this happen, sounds game changing for stamina DPS.
Been that way for a while now I think. The Infused trait, no matter which hand it is used on, will reduce the cooldown of both enchants, but only buff the value of the enchant of the Infused weapon.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm just finishing out my WM set (just started, really, but got lucky on my first run) but it will be my weapon set vs. my jewelry set. I currently run Hundings weapons and VO jewelry. When I finish WM, I know I don't want to pair it with VO, but which would be better, TFS or Spriggans on the jewelry?
If you're raiding there's zero reason to run TFS or Spriggan's.
For other content TFS isLiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma.
Yeah, I have Briarheart but right now the weapons are over on my stamDK.
I get that VO + WM has a duplicate 3-piece bonus ... but from the preliminary testing I've done it *should* be pretty similar to VO + Hunding's where Hunding's is only active on the front bar. I would love to run VO + Hunding's but then what am I doing for the group? Minor Savagery? Already got magblades providing that anyway. Might as well just run my stamDK and sleepwalk my way to 65k DPS single-target with far better AoE. I guess the key here will be doing sufficient group parses to determine if my DPS loss by using WM pays off by increasing the DPS of the melee DPS around me.
I have not been able to work out an effective rotation without VO on both bars (as a Khajiit non-vampire) that I can sustain indefinitely and still consistently hit 65k+ in a raid parse. I had been running either WM + NMG or WM + Hunding's for quite a while, and I could hit 65k on a really lucky parse, but my stamina pool was drained at the end and it was not fun to run in Trials. I have tried Stormfist and not really had much success; would probably have to rethink the rotation again to make that work ... plus Velidreth is just so awesome on a lot of fights.
Particularly right now we're progressing in vHoF and I just can't run that terrible, awful, no good, very bad Trial without VO.
As far as axe/dagger ... the thing I wonder ... a stamblade is the purest single-target build in the game. So, do I really care about boosting my AoE DPS by ~3% with an extra dagger versus the single-target benefit of the axe? At that point, I guess I'm back in the mindset of "shouldn't I just run my stamDK that's so easy to play that a monkey could do it?" At least the way I use my stamblade in my group, I try to be the priority target killer (Sun Eaters, Overchargers, bombers, etc.), stick on the boss in execute when other players may have to turn focus elsewhere, etc. But since I'm unable to see actual content parses (shame on ZOS for not having a Combat Metrics-like feature built in to the game), it's hard to tell what's up with an axe or dagger outside of its impact on a single-target 52mil skeleteon parse (although we have stacked 6mil and 3mil skeletons around the big skeleton to test, and I did not see a significant benefit from running dual daggers there ... it was maybe 500-1000 additional DPS on average on the AoE targets).
Anyway, thanks for the insight; I'll keep banging away at the 51mil dummy trying to get something figured out, but have been very happy with the VO + NMG or VO + Hunding's combos so far, so thanks for all the help here and elsewhere that got me there!
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LiquidPony/screenshot/7946469 (VO + NMG)LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »So after messing around on the dummy further last night, I hit 51.1k
Changed traits to Nirnhoned main and Infused off hand, the average DPS was slightly higher than Infused/Sharpened and considerably higher than Infused/Precise. I tested the traits on 6mil and 25mil dummies beforehand and can safely say that Nirnhoned/Infused is definitely the best combination right now.
The reason for parsing with VO is that I'm too lazy to change gear from my Stamplar (which is the class I have to play in raids right now).
I'm actually parsing better with VO than with Hunding's ... but my stamblade is a Khajiit and it's really difficult to sustain a rotation and get 2 bow procs off per cast on a Khajiit stamblade without VO, IMO.
I went from hitting 60-62k with WM+NMG and 62-65k with WM+Hunding's to ~65k with NMG+VO (even had a parse just under 67k with NMG+VO) and hit just a hair under 68k with Hunding's+VO (which could've been better; there's a bug on XB1, maybe elsewhere, where heavy attacks won't go off and I had a bad pass of the rotation where I just stood there doing nothing).
Unfortunately I don't have the right War Machine weapons to run WM+VO (VO only on the front bar just doesn't cut it for me, I end up having to heavy attack or pop synergies to the extent that I lose DoT uptime or miss a bow proc) ... hoping I can break 70k on a big skeleton parse with that setup once I have the weapons. There are very few stamblades out in the wild right now so I have no idea how that stacks up.
@Izaki what trait are you using on your bow? Pretty much everyone is still recommending Nirnhoned but since we started using poisons we've been seeing better results with Precise.
And also, what are your thoughts on axe/dagger versus dual daggers? We've been trying to test that as best we can on console, which is a bit unreliable, but pretty much across the board everyone is getting better raid parses out of an axe/dagger setup.
VO + Hunding's is the highest possible damage setup out there right now in raids. However, if you're running VO on both bars, consider running Briarheart instead of Hunding's, it should net you more DPS. Frankly, I hate running War Machine. It just feels like its the only reason I'm in the raid at all and I don't like that, but whatever. Its been eons since I've done a 51mil dummy, so I can't really say. One thing however: don't run WM + VO. You're losing an entire set bonus (double Minor Slayer), so in the end I think you're losing more than what you'll gain with a different set and a few more HAs. If I recall correctly, the difference in sustain between Cat and Man is 2 extra HAs every 22 sec (the length of the rota). So my solution would be: Stormfist instead of whichever monster set you were using. It deals basically the same DPS as the other monster sets (aside from Selene, but Selene is one of a kind, OP asf). That extra recovery piece would bring you basically on the same level as a Redguard.
The heavy attack bug is everywhere indeed... Very annoying.
Yeah I use a Precise bow personally. But Nirnhoned is basically the same DPS from what I've seen.
Axes are for cheesing dummy setups. They are purely single target, they are RNG based, they can proc on an add instead of the boss, they are ****. IMO. Double daggers will give you more consistent results in raids. Also the higher the DPS you do, the better double Daggers become. So yeah, I'm pretty firmly anti-axe, but sadly I still only have a WM axe and dagger (been looking for the second dagger for ages in any trait and never got it yet). So I guess you could say that either hypocrisy or just karma.
Yeah, I have Briarheart but right now the weapons are over on my stamDK.
I get that VO + WM has a duplicate 3-piece bonus ... but from the preliminary testing I've done it *should* be pretty similar to VO + Hunding's where Hunding's is only active on the front bar. I would love to run VO + Hunding's but then what am I doing for the group? Minor Savagery? Already got magblades providing that anyway. Might as well just run my stamDK and sleepwalk my way to 65k DPS single-target with far better AoE. I guess the key here will be doing sufficient group parses to determine if my DPS loss by using WM pays off by increasing the DPS of the melee DPS around me.
I have not been able to work out an effective rotation without VO on both bars (as a Khajiit non-vampire) that I can sustain indefinitely and still consistently hit 65k+ in a raid parse. I had been running either WM + NMG or WM + Hunding's for quite a while, and I could hit 65k on a really lucky parse, but my stamina pool was drained at the end and it was not fun to run in Trials. I have tried Stormfist and not really had much success; would probably have to rethink the rotation again to make that work ... plus Velidreth is just so awesome on a lot of fights.
Particularly right now we're progressing in vHoF and I just can't run that terrible, awful, no good, very bad Trial without VO.
As far as axe/dagger ... the thing I wonder ... a stamblade is the purest single-target build in the game. So, do I really care about boosting my AoE DPS by ~3% with an extra dagger versus the single-target benefit of the axe? At that point, I guess I'm back in the mindset of "shouldn't I just run my stamDK that's so easy to play that a monkey could do it?" At least the way I use my stamblade in my group, I try to be the priority target killer (Sun Eaters, Overchargers, bombers, etc.), stick on the boss in execute when other players may have to turn focus elsewhere, etc. But since I'm unable to see actual content parses (shame on ZOS for not having a Combat Metrics-like feature built in to the game), it's hard to tell what's up with an axe or dagger outside of its impact on a single-target 52mil skeleteon parse (although we have stacked 6mil and 3mil skeletons around the big skeleton to test, and I did not see a significant benefit from running dual daggers there ... it was maybe 500-1000 additional DPS on average on the AoE targets).
Anyway, thanks for the insight; I'll keep banging away at the 51mil dummy trying to get something figured out, but have been very happy with the VO + NMG or VO + Hunding's combos so far, so thanks for all the help here and elsewhere that got me there!
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LiquidPony/screenshot/7946469 (VO + NMG)
Don't think like that! Stamblades have the highest DPS between 25-0%. That's something that no other stamina class has! Another thing is the fact that we have Minor Berserk, and on consoles, the Combat Prayer uptimes are never as high as they could/should be due to the absence of proper buff tracker (ZOS u suck, but I luv u anyway). So that's a pretty good advantage there as well. Although, I don't get the argument of DKs having WAY more AoE than Stamblades: they just have Standard and maybe Noxious Breath (if the DK is actually using it), I'd say that overall, it would net around 3-4k extra AoE DPS. Is that really worth it over more burst in execute phase and most likely higher single target DPS due to the fact that you have a guaranteed 100% uptime on Minor Berserk? I'm not so sure. But yeah, the primary function of the NB is the burst in execute IMO. The War Machine is just a plus, but I personally don't like that set.
As far as WM + VO goes, it would be similar to Hunding's IF you didn't waste the 3 piece bonus. Because the 5pc bonus of WM and Hunding's nets more or less the same DPS (but not the same burst overall on a 3mil dummy for example). So you'd be losing say either 4% Crit or 1.1k Stam, which would be about 2-3% DPS roughly.
What I meant about the Axe is that its not so much the AoE aspect that bothers me, its the RNG. The bleed can proc from Deadly Cloak. So imagine the bleed proccing on the Hulk or the Atro instead of the boss. You'd be losing DPS. So the Dagger is more reliable. Plus when running War Machine, your crit chance is usually pretty low, so that's another benefit (unless you're a Khajiit obviously). Other times, you might gain some DPS with the Axe when it constantly procs on the right target. And either way, the extra crit will be giving you more DPS after a certain threshold. I seriously can't be bothered calculating it right now, but basically, you'd need to take the DPS from the Axe and compare it to the % DPS increase that the extra crit provides depending on the Major Force uptimes. From there you can figure out that threshold where the dagger becomes better than axe.
You tried running Dubious with 5-1-1? You're gonna lose about 2k stamina, but the sustain you're gonna get is going to give you more deeps in the end on longer fights. Or you could just go with 1 recovery glyph or something. I personally use a recovery glyph in most fights where I need to block or break free a lot. You lose DPS, but its better than *** the RT button.
As far as the monster set goes: Selene is where its at. For all the bosses where the hitbox isn't huge (aka for everything but Varlariel, Ra Kotu and Hunters Killers) and where AoE isn't exactly needed, Selene will give you the most DPS by far.
Right, my understanding/testing of War Machine vs. Hunding's is that the 5-piece is pretty similar in its effect on DPS ... but, because I run my setup with 5 x VO on both bars and Hunding's only on the front bar, my assumption would be that War Machine would be at least as good as Hunding's (perhaps even better) in that situation because I'm not losing any of the 5-piece benefit of War Machine whereas I'm losing my Hunding's 5-piece on the bow bar, even accounting for the lost bonus due to the redundant Minor Slayer. Plus, War Machine will at least provide a bit of a group buff. Won't be able to do much testing this week due to the holiday but next week I should have the chance to do probably 20 or 30 raid parses, so hopefully I can get some numbers recorded and see what works best.
I just want to hit 70k.
Some further axe thoughts: I didn't realize Deadly Cloak could proc the axe bleed--was that fixed at some point? I know back in Homestead it didn't, but haven't really tested that specifically since then.
Is there a cooldown on the axe bleed, or can it only be applied to one target at a time? That's what I'm not getting here ... if Deadly Cloak does indeed apply the axe bleed to a secondary target, does it actually hurt DPS on the primary target? Wouldn't I still be able to proc the axe bleed on the primary target via any number of other sources, including Deadly Cloak?
I have tried running Dubious, with tweaked attribute points or armor glyphs, but still my best raid skeleton DPS is coming from 6/1 with max/max food, 5 x VO + 5 x Hunding's, axe + dagger. I can do some more in-depth testing on PTS but only solo ... and often, as you know, I find something that looks promising in solo parses only to find that it's underwhelming in a raid parse.
And yeah, as far as stamDKs versus stamblades ... well, I guess the thing is just that the stamDK is so much easier to play. It's like taking a vacation. Sustain is never an issue, don't have to track procs, just heavy attack and hit some DoTs. I vastly prefer the stamblade, it's my OG toon, but it can be frustrating seeing people roll a new stamDK, gear it up with Hunding's and hit 65k in a raid parse after an hour of practice. But regardless, on a good parse I can out-DPS everyone in the group on my stamblade and we're killing the 51mil skeleton in about 1m45s, so it's not like I'm struggling ... just trying to do that last bit of min-maxing.0 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Hold on, infused off-hand is buffing both dual wield enchants now? When did this happen, sounds game changing for stamina DPS.
@WrathOfInnos
It's been like that since , forever ^^ Here is a thread I created about it in July 24th : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361826/infused-vma-bow-and-dual-wield-detailed-bug-report#latestWhen using War Machine I usually run Soul Harvest, which really boosts the uptime on fights with lots of adds.
@Izaki
I tried to make a NB tank like a year ago depending on this thing you said . Soul Harvest didn't give me any Ultimate unless I got the last hit . Are you sure it works like that ?0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Liofa Thanks for the info. I had done some limited testing a couple months ago and found that infused off-hand did not increase the power of the main-hand enchant (as you confirm), but I didn't consider the possibility it could be reducing cooldown without increasing magnitude. Very interesting. That definitely makes nirn + infused better than infused + precise for dual wield.
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Hold on, infused off-hand is buffing both dual wield enchants now? When did this happen, sounds game changing for stamina DPS.
@WrathOfInnos
It's been like that since , forever ^^ Here is a thread I created about it in July 24th : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361826/infused-vma-bow-and-dual-wield-detailed-bug-report#latestWhen using War Machine I usually run Soul Harvest, which really boosts the uptime on fights with lots of adds.
@Izaki
I tried to make a NB tank like a year ago depending on this thing you said . Soul Harvest didn't give me any Ultimate unless I got the last hit . Are you sure it works like that ?
Yeah you gotta get the killing blow for Soul Harvest to give you the ultimate return. With Hail, Caltrops, and Deadly Cloak (or when you need to focus an add down) you will sometimes get the kill, although, its obviously not very likely when there's 8 or more DDs. I still think its worth running though, the DPS loss from not running Incap is quite minimal anyway and when you do get a kill, you can proc the War Machine way sooner.Edited by Izaki on December 24, 2017 10:47PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is my favorite thread on these boards!
@Izaki I just want to be clear on the sets you use, as I've got a mule character carrying pieces of at least 6 different stamblade sets. I'm trying to figure out which to use.
Dummy parse:
VO (Front bar only)
TFS (always)
Kraghs
Raids:
Hundings (front bar only)
VO (Always)
Velidreth
With another stam DPS wearing NMG or Sunderflame in raids. Is that correct?
I can't run your dummy parse set yet as I can't run VO as a front bar set (no daggers) but I can run the reverse (TFS as front bar, VO as main). But I don't really need to since you did the dummy work for me
In raids, I'm running VO as main and Hundings or NMG as front bar. Is that optimal?0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Not exactly true for PvE. Without Sorcs, you've got no Alkosh since the uptime on that highly relies on the synergy from Liquid Lightning as well as Shards and Orbs. You ose the Sorcs, you lose the Alkosh. You lose the Sorcs and you lose a huge chunk of Concussion uptime and therefore, Off-balance uptime. Sorcs are also the highest AoE DPS class in the game at the moment. I'd say, keeping all that in mind, that Sorcs are a great support class for raids while still having great single target DPS. They are crucial in every raid group.
In PvP, I still think that with Rune Prison this class is even more deadly than before.
You know well how it works.
We'll get back into 2015, where you kick every sorc and just keep the barely necessary (1 with charged weapon or 2 without) to apply concussion.
Oh, well, I've quit for 2 years because of that in the past, I'll quit another 2 years again.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
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