Wrath is gone from heavy armor but it wasn't the problem

Juhasow · December 2017

coop500 wrote: »

Heavy armor is pretty overpreforming, my stamina NB that was meant to just be tanky also does as much damage as my stamina sorc on medium armor and it's just silly

That's because stamina nb is silly at current state of the game. Much more silly then heavy armor.

CyrusArya · December 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Honestly- heavy, medium, and light armor are performing well.

The issue is with various builds (as it's been mentioned several times). Seventh Legion, Ravager, etc should be toned down. Drop the weapon damage to around 300-350. No heavy armor should get buffs above 400 damage. I would, of course, like to see some heavy armor sets that buff your magic damage the way that 7th Legion/Ravager do (but not at 500-600 damage!) However, let's be realistic: saying that heavy armor shouldn't receive any bonuses to damage is like saying that medium/light armor should get no bonuses toward health or resistance.

Medium armor doesn't need a buff. Honestly- imagine how hard stamblades will cloak kill you with more buffs.

Light armor is fine as well.

...just my two cents.

PS: Buff mDKs.

Ravager and 7th and others are perfectly fine as they are proc based and last for a limited duration. They require you to play around a random window of oppurtunity. If they followed your suggestion and toned em down to 300-350 damage on a proc....why would anyone in their right mind use these sets over a basic set of crafted Hundings which is up perpetually?

Build diversity and and variety are a good thing. Making sets obsolete is not in the game’s best interest. What you should instead be advocating for is better medium armor and light armor sets.

Izaki · December 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Honestly- heavy, medium, and light armor are performing well.

The issue is with various builds (as it's been mentioned several times). Seventh Legion, Ravager, etc should be toned down. Drop the weapon damage to around 300-350. No heavy armor should get buffs above 400 damage. I would, of course, like to see some heavy armor sets that buff your magic damage the way that 7th Legion/Ravager do (but not at 500-600 damage!) However, let's be realistic: saying that heavy armor shouldn't receive any bonuses to damage is like saying that medium/light armor should get no bonuses toward health or resistance.

Medium armor doesn't need a buff. Honestly- imagine how hard stamblades will cloak kill you with more buffs.

Light armor is fine as well.

...just my two cents.

PS: Buff mDKs.

Rather than nerfing Ravager and Armor of Truth, those sets should just casually become medium armor sets. That alone would make medium MUCH more attractive.

Seventh Legion and Fury should obviously stay heavy, since they do require you to get hit.

starkerealm · December 2017

Cactus316000 wrote: »

The problem with heavy armor is over performing sets i.e Ravager, Seventh legion, Knight errant, etc.

I... wait, what?

Savos_Saren · December 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Honestly- heavy, medium, and light armor are performing well.

The issue is with various builds (as it's been mentioned several times). Seventh Legion, Ravager, etc should be toned down. Drop the weapon damage to around 300-350. No heavy armor should get buffs above 400 damage. I would, of course, like to see some heavy armor sets that buff your magic damage the way that 7th Legion/Ravager do (but not at 500-600 damage!) However, let's be realistic: saying that heavy armor shouldn't receive any bonuses to damage is like saying that medium/light armor should get no bonuses toward health or resistance.

Medium armor doesn't need a buff. Honestly- imagine how hard stamblades will cloak kill you with more buffs.

Light armor is fine as well.

...just my two cents.

PS: Buff mDKs.

Ravager and 7th and others are perfectly fine as they are proc based and last for a limited duration. They require you to play around a random window of oppurtunity. If they followed your suggestion and toned em down to 300-350 damage on a proc....why would anyone in their right mind use these sets over a basic set of crafted Hundings which is up perpetually?

Build diversity and and variety are a good thing. Making sets obsolete is not in the game’s best interest. What you should instead be advocating for is better medium armor and light armor sets.

You're kidding, right? So with the 100s of comments and posts about 7th Legion overperforming- you're telling me that they're perfectly fine?

But if I were to mention that there should be a magicka-based heavy armor set that healed you and buffed your spell damage to 500 with no global cooldown- I guarantee that all hell would break loose.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm always amazed by the people who think that people can't/shouldn't be mobile or active on the battlefield in heavy armor. That's simply not how it was historically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

Now, that's not to say that ZOS has gotten the balance of tankiness to damage potential quite right - they certainly haven't. But please don't repeat bad myths about historical armor in order to justify your argument. That's bad history. Real armor is so much cooler than that.

There's a reason that a fully armored Knight created fear in the regular populace. The Knight was like a navy seal of his day or a fighter pilot. They were using the best equipment and the best technologies. They were highly trained in combat to levels the regular individual was not. Their armor was designed to deflect blows and they were far more agile than people give credit for.

As a side note it was a big deal to capture them and often times a great deal of effort was taken to tackle them and hold them down by multiple opponents. The misericorde (stiletto) was used to jam between armor plates, often in the groin or through the armpit to threaten weak points once a Knight was held to the ground. They were then traded for weregild by their families - thus why they were often captured instead of the fatal blow being taken.

Amazingly enough though I would find the strange views of armor by gamers less strange than the acceptance of other strange things.

*Why do characters swing their shields behind them and haymaker their sword in a heavy attack?
*Why do characters look away from their opponent so often. This looking away is so bad that they look behind themselves on the ground behind their foot. At least the ranged weapons attacks manage to keep eyes on the target.
*Why is the shield held like a buckler but it is sized like a proper shield, in which case it should be held in the hand not only for range but also because it is much easier to use with a sword or axe as well as less likely to have your arm broken, shoulder or elbow hyper-extended.
*Why are the two handed and dual wield weapons never held at proper guard positions. Crossed swords and that strange 2-hander parry just aren't right. I would love to see a 'Roof-Guard' stance for the 2hander at some point as well.
*Why is LEATHER armor more stealthy than cloth? Has anyone never heard someone wearing squeaky leather clothes?

Artistically speaking I do not like it when movies and videogames get basic martial understanding completely wrong. Don't they usually pay 'experts' to help them add realism? I understand at times they use it for flashy excitement like when Van-Damme does his splits in the air helicopter kick. This is not very realistic though. Finally, why is the spear such an unpopular weapon in videogames when it is actually one of the most important weapons of antiquity. The Spear is at least by far more useful than a sidearm like a sword. The Roman army made excellent use of the sword but it should be noted that their technique was less about the sword and by far more about the sword being used in tandem with the shield and a phalanx. It should also be noted that they used arrows and spears and cavalry.

pieratsos · December 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Honestly- heavy, medium, and light armor are performing well.

The issue is with various builds (as it's been mentioned several times). Seventh Legion, Ravager, etc should be toned down. Drop the weapon damage to around 300-350. No heavy armor should get buffs above 400 damage. I would, of course, like to see some heavy armor sets that buff your magic damage the way that 7th Legion/Ravager do (but not at 500-600 damage!) However, let's be realistic: saying that heavy armor shouldn't receive any bonuses to damage is like saying that medium/light armor should get no bonuses toward health or resistance.

Medium armor doesn't need a buff. Honestly- imagine how hard stamblades will cloak kill you with more buffs.

Light armor is fine as well.

...just my two cents.

PS: Buff mDKs.

Ravager and 7th and others are perfectly fine as they are proc based and last for a limited duration. They require you to play around a random window of oppurtunity. If they followed your suggestion and toned em down to 300-350 damage on a proc....why would anyone in their right mind use these sets over a basic set of crafted Hundings which is up perpetually?

Build diversity and and variety are a good thing. Making sets obsolete is not in the game’s best interest. What you should instead be advocating for is better medium armor and light armor sets.

7th legion, proc based limited duration, random window of opportunity? Lol.

CyrusArya · December 2017

jaburns wrote: »

You're kidding, right? So with the 100s of comments and posts about 7th Legion overperforming- you're telling me that they're perfectly fine?

But if I were to mention that there should be a magicka-based heavy armor set that healed you and buffed your spell damage to 500 with no global cooldown- I guarantee that all hell would break loose.

No I’m not. I place very, very little importance on forums QQ. You failed to respond to my point tho. If you reduced the proc damage to numbers you suggest, why would anyone use ravager or 7th over Hundings? Even at 400 it would not be worth it. Also, while there is no designated heavy armor damage proc set, putting together a heavy armor build with burning spell weave is not rocket science. Likewise ravager and 7th can be used in medium armor builds. Either way, I’m always open to more gear diversity.

pieratsos wrote: »

7th legion, proc based limited duration, random window of opportunity? Lol.

I was speaking more to Ravager, which is an OG and balanced set that doesn’t need a nerf. If you read my post, my main concern is how lowering the proc will render the set(s) obsolete. 7th does need a slight nerf, and that’s a cooldown like ravager. But that’s it.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

pieratsos · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Or maybe actually rework the sets in a way that rewards smart and skilled gameplay instead of randomly procing them by just normally fighting?

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Or maybe actually rework the sets in a way that rewards smart and skilled gameplay instead of randomly procing them by just normally fighting?

Oh, skilled play, is that why you're all trying to make these sets literally like hundings but limited uptime?a.k.a. garbage?
''hurr durr ravager should give 300 weapon damage so my no-brainer %100 uptime hundings setup can perform better''

These sets already have a weakness. they have limited uptime. seventh needs a 5 second cooldown to prevent heal spam and that will put it in a balanced spot.

pieratsos · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Or maybe actually rework the sets in a way that rewards smart and skilled gameplay instead of randomly procing them by just normally fighting?

Oh, skilled play, is that why you're all trying to make these sets literally like hundings but limited uptime?a.k.a. garbage?
''hurr durr ravager should give 300 weapon damage so my no-brainer %100 uptime hundings setup can perform better''

These sets already have a weakness. they have limited uptime. seventh needs a 5 second cooldown to prevent heal spam and that will put it in a balanced spot.

Point me to where i said that i want the sets to be nerfed and become garbage. Point me where.
Pay attention next time and maybe read again before you accuse people cause right now you are just making urself look stupid.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Or maybe actually rework the sets in a way that rewards smart and skilled gameplay instead of randomly procing them by just normally fighting?

Oh, skilled play, is that why you're all trying to make these sets literally like hundings but limited uptime?a.k.a. garbage?
''hurr durr ravager should give 300 weapon damage so my no-brainer %100 uptime hundings setup can perform better''

These sets already have a weakness. they have limited uptime. seventh needs a 5 second cooldown to prevent heal spam and that will put it in a balanced spot.

Point me to where i said that i want the sets to be nerfed and become garbage. Point me where.
Pay attention next time and maybe read again before you accuse people cause right now you are just making urself look stupid.

You don't get the point,
I am telling you that the sets are fine, and you're stil telling me they need to change.
If you still don't understand my point then I'm sorry to remind you that I'm not the idiot in this case.

nerfing/changing these sets won't solve anything in this case, as the root of the problem was never about how these sets were designed.
Problem is always about how the game is designed, how easy it is to survive for long in this game.

get %90 block cost reduction, spam ridicilous heals, (dk/templar)
or be a stamblade, spam cloak, spam dodge rolls all day long.
spam ridicilous shields that can't be critted.

You see, a stamblade/stam warden has strong tools for both killing people and staying alive, regardless of their gear, but that is not the case for all classes. So they build to survive long, when they build to survive long, proc sets benefit them.

Change into a high TTK meta and Im pretty sure heavy armor would almost completely disappear on its current state.
The passives are just too meh at this point. medium is insane for both sustain and damage. question is, and was always, ''how do I survive in medium''.

Not how do I survive against heavy armor players, but more like,
How do I survive against all the ranged undodgeable crap, without cloak or shimmering shields? just how?

Tommy_The_Gun · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Actually this may cause a whole "wave" of nerfs. At some point (assuming that some significant nerfs to sets like Ravager, Seventh legion will occur) - it will be better to use heavy crafted sets like Hunding's Rage / Law of Julianos... and what I fear is that then people might start to cry for nerfs to those sets...

VaranisArano · December 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Finally, why is the spear such an unpopular weapon in videogames when it is actually one of the most important weapons of antiquity. The Spear is at least by far more useful than a sidearm like a sword. The Roman army made excellent use of the sword but it should be noted that their technique was less about the sword and by far more about the sword being used in tandem with the shield and a phalanx. It should also be noted that they used arrows and spears and cavalry.

I agree 100% on the spear. My Nerevarine from TES III rocked a spear the whole game. Its the perfect weapon against cliff racers, wild kagouti, 6th House Dagoths, Redoran Archmagisters, and Dark Brotherhood assassins.

I assume it has something to do with the animations of it or not wanting to include a weapon that's not as impressive for most players, but I miss my Morrowind spears something fierce.

Malmai · December 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Everyone already knows this.... Heavy armor provides better defense than damage shields but only slighty. Medium armor is unplayable, would rather my toon wear literal garbage.

Anyone decent is running heavy now, Heavy does need a slight nerf.

Damage shields don't need to be nerfed at all, though.

Cant tell if you are sarcastic about shields or just simple minded...

Aisle9 · December 2017

The_Brosteen wrote: »

So if I use medium armor and I don't die most pvp encounters does that mean I'm like super good?

Yep, knowing how to rolldodge seems to be a lost art, you might as well be one of the last Sword Singers.

Gratz.

pieratsos · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

Or maybe actually rework the sets in a way that rewards smart and skilled gameplay instead of randomly procing them by just normally fighting?

Oh, skilled play, is that why you're all trying to make these sets literally like hundings but limited uptime?a.k.a. garbage?
''hurr durr ravager should give 300 weapon damage so my no-brainer %100 uptime hundings setup can perform better''

These sets already have a weakness. they have limited uptime. seventh needs a 5 second cooldown to prevent heal spam and that will put it in a balanced spot.

Point me to where i said that i want the sets to be nerfed and become garbage. Point me where.
Pay attention next time and maybe read again before you accuse people cause right now you are just making urself look stupid.

You don't get the point,
I am telling you that the sets are fine, and you're stil telling me they need to change.
If you still don't understand my point then I'm sorry to remind you that I'm not the idiot in this case.

nerfing/changing these sets won't solve anything in this case, as the root of the problem was never about how these sets were designed.
Problem is always about how the game is designed, how easy it is to survive for long in this game.

get %90 block cost reduction, spam ridicilous heals, (dk/templar)
or be a stamblade, spam cloak, spam dodge rolls all day long.
spam ridicilous shields that can't be critted.

You see, a stamblade/stam warden has strong tools for both killing people and staying alive, regardless of their gear, but that is not the case for all classes. So they build to survive long, when they build to survive long, proc sets benefit them.

Change into a high TTK meta and Im pretty sure heavy armor would almost completely disappear on its current state.
The passives are just too meh at this point. medium is insane for both sustain and damage. question is, and was always, ''how do I survive in medium''.

Not how do I survive against heavy armor players, but more like,
How do I survive against all the ranged undodgeable crap, without cloak or shimmering shields? just how?

You are the one who doesnt get the point. Now you are just presenting me the overall problem with ESO. I didnt say that the game is fine and i agree that the issue is about how the game is designed. But those sets are part of the game and they have the same damn issue. Poor design not promoting skilled gameplay. So no, they are not fine.

SugaComa · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Cactus316000 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its almost like the dominance of heavy armor is a combination of factors including CP, specific gear sets, passive bonuses, and blocking.

Then add in the difficulty of balancing for PVP in Battlegrounds 4v4v4 and PVP in Cyrodiil (designed for groups of 2 to 24 players with everything from solo players to zergs to faction stacks) and you start to see that balancing armor sets has a lot more pieces to balance. Nerf something for Battlegrounds and you might destroy a playstyle for open field battle in Cyrodiil. ZOS has to balance both and they seem to be moving one step at a time on the heavy armor problem.

I used battlegrounds as an example as I got some good 1 on 1 fights there tonight. I don't think light armor needs to be touched. I do believe some sets need to be looked at seriously. Zos made a good start taking shuffle off heavy armor builds. Maybe in the Q1 free update Zos will balance some sets and skills again

A good start for BG maybe, but utterly destroyed one of the few defensive capabilities tanks had been relying on.

THE MORE WE CATER TO PVP, THE MORE PVE SUFFERS. THE MORE WE CATER TO PVP. THE MORE PVE SUFFERS. REPEAT AFTER ME.

It seems like most people here care about PvP, really, I still think we should balance in terms of PvP.

For PVE, no matter what there's always going to be one single BIS, so it will never make any sense to run anything but that one combination. In PvP, that is not true at all. There are variables such as playstyle and many others.

If there is, it is the fault of the system.

And that system needs overhauled, no doubt about that, but until they *** do, there needs to be a friggin cut on how much we nerf PVE for the sake of PVP.

Doesn't need to be

You just create a table that looks up each armour and weapon while in a PvP area and it either add or subtracts the stats to create a balance

This way pve is never affected

Granted that's it broken into its simplest format but it's is doable if the coding is right

GreenhaloX · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Glorious.

Classic example of "PVPERS WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED".

Everyone cries about Wrath. Wrath is removed. "WRATH WASN'T THE PROBLEM".

Never give into a minority. They will only ask for more. Appeasement is never the answer.

Yup.. that is how it has seemingly been, with all the nerfed and changes about. It's usually some PvPers in Cyrodiil crying foul on something, and PvE land players feel and suffer the side-effects from it.

In general, nerfing skillsets, abilities or passives is just so ridiculous. All these years in ESO, and I still can't comprehend all the nerfing have been going on and those supporting it; despite whatever comments/replies/rebuttal from those trying to justify that nerfing is needed. I guess, some peeps are ok with backward progress. We may be going forward with new DLCs and Chapter, or whatever you want to call it, but, we have always gone backwards with each patch with our tons' skillsets, abilities and/or passives that have been nerfed. It should be as easy or better to buff something up for balance. This is forward progress. Period.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Glorious.

Classic example of "PVPERS WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED".

Everyone cries about Wrath. Wrath is removed. "WRATH WASN'T THE PROBLEM".

Never give into a minority. They will only ask for more. Appeasement is never the answer.

Yup.. that is how it has seemingly been, with all the nerfed and changes about. It's usually some PvPers in Cyrodiil crying foul on something, and PvE land players feel and suffer the side-effects from it.

In general, nerfing skillsets, abilities or passives is just so ridiculous. All these years in ESO, and I still can't comprehend all the nerfing have been going on and those supporting it; despite whatever comments/replies/rebuttal from those trying to justify that nerfing is needed. I guess, some peeps are ok with backward progress. We may be going forward with new DLCs and Chapter, or whatever you want to call it, but, we have always gone backwards with each patch with our tons' skillsets, abilities and/or passives that have been nerfed. It should be as easy or better to buff something up for balance. This is forward progress. Period.

As many people have pointed out in this thread, the sets and how they are designed are the problem. Enough blanket nerfs to classes because of PVPer greed.

IcyDeadPeople · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

I suspect the reason ravager and perhaps a couple other sets are heavy is because back when they were originally released, heavy had really bad sustain. It was a way to balance the set, make it weaker or more challenging in some way because you had to use the jewelry / weapons, could only combine with certain other sets. It's similar to other stam sets like Noble Duelist Undaunted Unweaver that dropped in light armor, or Stygian and Undaunted Infiltrator dropping in medium instead of light etc.

Could still work this way if medium armor got a nice buff that put it on a significantly higher tier of damage compared to heavy, for example, add phys penetration passive, but otherwise might make sense for some of the offensive heavy sets to become medium.

Tan9oSuccka · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

THE MORE WE CATER TO PVP, THE MORE PVE SUFFERS. THE MORE WE CATER TO PVP. THE MORE PVE SUFFERS. REPEAT AFTER ME.

This guy is the ultimate casual who wants ESO to be even easier. Stop crutching and learn how to play. PVP is part of this game and it should be balanced to the greatest degree possible.

I play medium with my stam builds because it's a rush. I love the speed. I've never had a heavy stam build even though I know it's advantageous.

I don't think medium is worse than light. The mobility is amazing and there should be a trade-off for that. I love playing medium builds, even if they are at a head to head combat disadvantage to heavy atm. I think that actually makes sense. If medium is to be buffed, so too should light, IMO.

I think it makes more sense to adjust heavy so that more PVE content isn't trivialized.

Alll these words thrown in my mouth, allllll this bull. Love it.

I want ESO to be more mechanically sound so difficulty is not done -wrong-. In not only an engaging and fun way, but a fair way. I heard a quote earlier in this forum and I think it holds true. There's a difference between hard and boring, and hard and fun, just like easy and boring, easy and fun. You only see easy boring. That's a personal problem.

PVP SHOULD NOT IMPACT PVE. PVP SHOULD NOT IMPACT PVE. REPEAT AFTER ME. This is non negotiable. By removing HA players ability to use shuffle, they objectively worsened the ability of tanks to stack defenses. That is objective, you cannot argue it, you cannot despute it. And if tanking is going to be something that we still need (And given there's anoher thread asking how we encourage it due to the -lack- of tanks) it's time to own up to the consequences of PVP's actions, and stop nerfing one for the sake of the other.

Well said. Zenimax needs to start balancing separately.

If they’re unable to do so, then prioritize your bread and butter player base. (That’s not PvP, folks).

Emmagoldman · December 2017

I know some people are against all nerfs, but without them there is a power creep. It’s easier to balance a skill then it is to rebalance all Npcs, which could be made more challenging. It’s fine to nerf, but it’s better to do in small changes then destroy a class.

I agree that it can be difficult to determine if it’s a class or armor set. The nerf sorc crying, being blamed on shields when it was really pirate and bsw. Crating on shields would probably make them worthless and return to similar dog of the proc set days, substituting high dog in place of proc. I am ok with wrath’s nerf so far, even though it impacts my Magdk.

You are right though, these sets may need a very slight nerf or an additional 5pc bonus to medium ( reduced roll cost). However, wrath also reduces the healing of magplars which I think is fair. There are less cancerous builds then 6 months ago

Pvers are very happy, in general with unbalanced abilities or exploits because they are able to win easier. In pvp, it makes a big difference if something is broken and counter play is desired. Take the stamblade proc set crit meta. No pver said, this is op! The faster and easier for pve the better. Or burning a boss and ignoring all mechanics. The mechanics are put in place for a reason. If the are ignored, it demonstrates a power creep the exceeded the original intent.

DeadlyRecluse · December 2017

The removal of Bracing (a block cost reduction passive that worked well--maybe too well--in PvE and PvP and fit thematically with heavy armor) and implementation of Wrath (a watered-down DPS passive that was useless in PvE and helpful but not necessary in PvP) continues to be one of the strangest decisions I've ever seen.

Removing Wrath just makes it clearer to non-tanks that they should probably try 5L/5M if their are trying to deal damage in PvP. That was true awhile ago, but the switch is definitely taking time.

TBH, I like frequent nerfs and changes. If I can run the same build for too long, I get bored. This way, I can shelve my 5 heavy julianos and throw 5 Light transmutation and be very sure I'm making the right call. Eventually the pendulum will swing and I'll break out the 5 Heavy Juli again, and it'll feel new.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

oh please, go get seventh and ravager nerfed too so we can all wear clever alchemist. such diversity right guys?

I suspect the reason ravager and perhaps a couple other sets are heavy is because back when they were originally released, heavy had really bad sustain. It was a way to balance the set, make it weaker or more challenging in some way because you had to use the jewelry / weapons, could only combine with certain other sets. It's similar to other stam sets like Noble Duelist Undaunted Unweaver that dropped in light armor, or Stygian and Undaunted Infiltrator dropping in medium instead of light etc.

Could still work this way if medium armor got a nice buff that put it on a significantly higher tier of damage compared to heavy, for example, add phys penetration passive, but otherwise might make sense for some of the offensive heavy sets to become medium.

You have a point, back then heavy sucked really bad, which is why we had wrath passive in the first place.
But heavy meta is really about to die, I would prefer a nerf to those sets instead of removing wrath but It is already done,
So we already have builds like medium armor master or medium fortified brass with capped resistances.
Its a clear indicator that medium passives are better, but dodge rolls only won't keep you alive vs all the undodgeable burst from magicka toons.
Most of the small scalers are switching to medium, even stamDks are switching to medium setups with high resistance/impen stats..

So nerfing those sets or making them medium would take us back to the time where nobody used heavy armor in PvP.

what do I suggest?
rework shuffle into something better. keep the snare removal BUT make it give some sort of real defence, instead of %15 dodge chance, something like extra crit resistance when you purge a snare with shuffle, or something like that. anything but the meaningless dodge chance if you ask me.

SnubbS · December 2017

There are two massive problems with Cyrodiil PvP balance.

The first is damage differentiating wildly between targets, I can leap someone for 16k, then hit someone else for 6k crit. That's absurd, and needs to be changed. Through armor, cp and various debuffs (not including maim) you should never be able to mitigate more than 30% damage without blocking.

The second problem is health—health is way too high and needs a hardcap around 28k. Certain skills which scale off health should be re-balanced to retain their current levels of effectiveness with the overall nerf to health.

There are other issues like over-healing, and blocking. However with a reduction to overall mitigation and a hardcap on health I feel that it would go along way towards balancing both of those out nicely.

Saint_Bud · December 2017

Its not the sets, the passives and gamemechanices are the problem. Pre morrowind, we have a redused coast and more reg. In light or medeum at the time player have a hard work to sustain and do good damage. In heavy as stamplayer with s&b just heavy attack, no problem to wear 2 damagesets an so on. Also some skills are very good from the s&b skillline. But there should also said that this builds are good in 1v1 or smallscale fights, but havnt a place in good groups to the lack of what they bring to the group.

Calboy · December 2017

Heavy armour is fine. Light is better in pvp and pve unless your tanking it. Also if zos allows medium to become meta then that will be the next big cancer. Medium shuffle rollers all over cyrodiil has been done before and its an absolutely horrible game play style.

Kalante · December 2017

There is always that one person that compares video game discussion about balancing to real life. The issue in pvp is that you can go offense and switch to defense with heavy armor. Which is insane, you can't have both. It's really that simple. I don't know what is the huge mystery about it.