So, I thought I'd come to vent.

Streega · December 2017

IMO random normal is in the middle of the scale (HoTR dungeons like Bloodroot Forge being on top of this trier). If you want easy, go for delves (solo) and public dungeons (duo/small group) - that's how you learn how to use your skills and test your setup.
Group delves from Craglorn and normal group dungeons are a great place to learn your group tactics and rotation. Start with the easiest, like Fungal Grotto. However they will be hard if you are not accustomed with your skills and don't have decent gear - by "decent" I mean appropriate to your role full set at least in blue quality with all the big pieces (head, chest, legs) in purple. Crafted sets at the beginning, dungeon sets later. Absolutely no random green pieces! And don't forget the food/potions.
Veteran group dungeons are the hardest, and do not try to enter them with inexperienced group without really good gear. Again, the difficulty varies - vet Fungal Grotto is a walk in the park compared to Falkreath Hold or Mazzatun.
Here is a small example (only vet dungeons, but the normal ones are more or less adequate) how the dungeons can be rated:

As you can see, the range of difficulty is quite wide. I'm sure you can find something challenging enough without being frustratingly hard. The only condition is: you have to be prepared. Don't be surprised you get wiped over and over when you enter the dungeon dressed in green rags and spamming light attacks only...
Here is a great playlist with short videos explaining the mechanics of most dungeons (sadly, the author is little behind with latest content from HotR and CWC, but these are really hard and I wouldn't recommend it for you anyway).

EDIT - Forgot to mention: allocate your CP wisely and max your class/weapon/armour skills (there is a big difference between skill rank I and IV). And by that I mean level up the skills you use, not "learn all the skills available".

static_recharge · December 2017

Sounds to me like you got a fake tank or something. Someone who qued as a tank but wasn't. This content is not that demanding on normal. With a tank to hold aggro and a healer this shouldn't have happened. I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience and would be more than happy to help if you're on PC NA.

Ermiq · December 2017

Hey! You cannot surrender after one bad experience.
As a PUG player I can assure you that such situation is an uncommon in random dungeons. Even vet. dungeons are quite easy when people ready for it and they know what to do. DLC dungeons are harder, because even at normal level they require acknowledge of mechanics, but non-DLC ones are way easier. Sometimes you get bad luck and entire group is made of people who acting like they haven't been in any dungeon before but the most time there are experienced and well geared players.
Try to use the group finder one more time and I'm sure you'll see how easy normal dungeons can be.

tommalmm · December 2017

TBH, I would have given up, were I you, after 15 minutes and just requeued hoping for an easier dungeon or a better group (though you might've been and, indeed, most likely were a part of the problem). But 6 hours? Damn! Normal BRF is not that hard. You can run it with 4xDD if you follow mechanics (bashing minotaurs, escaping from shalks, killing adds on the last fight first, etc), accept a few deaths or simply have enough DPS to ignore everything. But definitely, it's not a good place to get into dungeoning after a longer break (or for a first dungeon - damn that would be brutal, especially if everyone else in the group was inexperienced).

I've met a few persistent players before, one of them was stuck at last boss in vCOS for like 10 hours before he's got some more luck with a group and was able to complete it (I accidentally happened to join this group on last boss). AFAIR, he even got some keyboard and mouse issues and had to replace them to be able to do anything (talk about bad luck!).

He's now a very good player, judging by the leaderboard scores, much better than I am.

ThePrinceOfBargains · December 2017

Are you absolutely, positively sure it was normal? Because I accidentally queued for veteran at least 3 times. I think it’s the default option if you’re CP 160.

Robo_Hobo · December 2017

Yeah that was Bloodroot forge definitely. As far as Normal dungeons go it definitely is a different level of difficulty compared to them. I can see how that would feel with a group going in there for their first dungeon, or first in a long long time. Not only must you had been unlucky to get into that dungeon in the first place with the group finder, but it also must have meant the rest of your team was also equally new to dungeons. If it were literally any other dungeon on normal it would have probably gone smoothly. EDIT: Well, other than Falkreath Hold, too...since that's the other new DLC dungeon Bloodroot forge came with.

Vapirko · December 2017

I’d suggest joining a nice guild and learning how to properly gear up and fight. Not only is it not that hard to get to a decent place but you don’t need to spend hours grinding and you can use a combo of crafted gear and fairly cheap dropped gear to pull very decent dps numbers. Not only will This ensure you can pull through any normal dungeon with ease but it will open up a whole new section of the game. Good luck.

Vapirko · December 2017

I’d suggest joining a nice guild and learning how to properly gear up and fight. Not only is it not that hard to get to a decent place but you don’t need to spend hours grinding and you can use a combo of crafted gear and fairly cheap dropped gear to pull very decent dps numbers. Not only will This ensure you can pull through any normal dungeon with ease but it will open up a whole new section of the game. Good luck.

newtinmpls · December 2017

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I did normal Bloodroot Forge the other day for the first time because of the event. I think it really requires you to know the mechanics of the bosses.

And unless you are lucky and figure it out, or someone happens to do the perfect teaching video and you happen to see it, you are out of luck.

Very frustrating.

I will admit my group did struggle with Bloodroot forge (group of friends just plopping together sets of 4 peeps); it was Cradle of Shadows we couldn't finish. That "statue hanging upside down" room - obviously there were mechanics, but we just couldn't figure it out - couldn't tell what to do to survive it.

zaria · December 2017

Mureel wrote: »

What NORMAL could you possibly have had a wipefest on?

I don't believe it at all, having done this on all my chars every day even lvl 10 and 35 ones and had ZERO wipes.

had 3 failed runs, 2 was did not handle mechanics and did not want to discuss combined with low dps.
Last fas BC2 with no AoE outside me as healer, this in 54 run.

Its possible to fail normals, it require an weak group, lack of communication helps a lot wiping. Did Bloodroot forge with an pretty weak group, me on level 48 sorcerer healer, dolmen specialist so lack of skillpoints.
One level 46, also an alt and knew the dungeon better. two cp around 140 and 200.
We talked, we wiped less and less as we proceeded, think it was 4-5 times on the witch, none on the two last bosses,

I say OP was very unlucky and is surprised they did not gave up earlier and just tried another dungeon.
I was far less patient than I would be in an random normal outside of event.

altemriel · December 2017

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I had gone into the game thinking to get myself one of these event crate things, but I discovered to my disappointment that they're only for the GROUP dungeons, and only via the random dungeon finder.

Now, I never do those dungeons, because every time I do, they all end the same way. Team wipe after team wipe after team wipe. Bosses with attacks you can't avoid or block, but that will instantly oneshot you. Bosses with so much health that they take an hour to kill off IF you can manage to do it (usually after 20-30 wipes). In general, it's just not any fun, so I don't do them.

But, if I want to partake of the "event," I'm forced to do them, so I thought I'd give it a try again. After all, it's been a while since I last did one (before One Tamriel), so maybe things will be better?

So, I queued and entered a dungeon I'd not seen before. Some dungeon with Nords, Minotaurs and Fire Shalks. Of course, as usual the group was blitzing through as fast as possible, so I had no chance to read anything, or find loot, or look around for hidden things... but that really wasn't why I was there.

We battled through. Many of the fights were really hard, but we prevailed. Eventually, we came to a group of final bosses. Three of them, all ridiculously strong. We went in without a plan and wiped about 6 times. Finally, we got organized and went in properly and prevailed. I thought we were done, but no, there was "one" more boss, a magma atronach of some sort.

It proceeded to wipe the team over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over, with no end in sight. Every hit was oneshotting anyone it hit. Of course, there was also debris falling on our heads slowing and stunning us, guaranteeing we'd GET hit, so it oneshotted everyone over and over. As if that wasn't enough, it also conjured duplicates of itself, all of which were oneshotting everyone over and over and over.

After something like 200 wipes, I left. I hate to leave a group, but I'd been there nearly 6 hours being wiped over and over and over with no way to avoid or prevent it.

This is why I don't do these missions. They're stupidly difficult, and that was on NORMAL.

I'm especially disappointed because this is content, some of it quite spectacular, that I will NEVER do again. I wish they had made these a bit more reasonable at the "Normal" level. They could have made the current Normal level the "Veteran" level, and had a third "Elite" level that's the same as the current Veteran level. As it is, these missions are simply not accessible to more casual players, and I honestly don't see how less casual ones can even find these entertaining.

So, if there's a point to this, it's that there should be a lower difficulty level, at least on the bosses of these things. As it stands, they're too strong in pretty well every case I've seen.

1. Normal - New level, less powerful bosses.
2. Veteran - Same as current Normal level.
3. Elite - Same as current Veteran level.

have you done normal dungeons or veteran level?

I have done only normals and it was really easy, piece of cake, we burned everything like really fast. which people have you played with?

I only played with pugs or guildies, I almost never died, I did 1 or 2 dungs almost every day, only 1 day I was not here, only once I had an issue, that the healer was not healing and tank was not tanking in white gold tower, so at the 1st boss they left and I found another people very fast and we burned trough the dungeon with no more issues.

may I ask which armor sets and weapons sets and skills are you using?
what is your base weapon damage or spelldamage?

blacksghost · December 2017

I died..and gradually died slightly fewer times. but I was lucky, though Ive done very few dungeons and never before with DF, I got mostly decent groups, with the abilities to probably do them without me..The ones where folk raced ahead like lunatics because they have done them many times I died in the most, the ones where they raced past mobs who would then attack from behind I died from only slightly less. The one time the group stopped and rationalised the fights (Falksomething hold) was the best of all despite dying that one group got together and pooled information, for that I thank them..though I hope I never see inside that place again in a hurry!!..lol

Above all though I gained experience Id never have gotten before, was never confident enough to try because I was always afraid Id pull the team down..By the end when Id run a dungeon and my repair costs were minimal (30g) I felt Id achieved something..the rewards were meaningless and only incidental to the BIG reward, building confidence.

Im sorry it didn't work out that way for the OP and tbh I dread that now the event is over Experienced players will move back to Vet only Dungeons. It was never about winning a box of goodies for me, it was always about learning with every instance.

PS loved that I wasn't always the only person who wanted to run backwards through a Dungeon to get a calmer view on how it was laid out , not to mention scoop up a small amount of loot

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

I'd love for this OP to post a screenshot of his character sheet. I bet it would be quite illuminating.

MornaBaine · December 2017

Although I skipped doing these on the weekend I've been doing them on 2 characters a day otherwise, both Mag Sorcs. I typically derp around in solo PvE so nothing I do is hard. I run dailies with a couple friends. My "strengths" are my class (so I'm told), wearing mostly purple CP160 gear, Julianios with Divines, and having a heal staff on my back bar. Oh and having close to 600 CP. I've been doing these dungeons with one other friend or guildie so the other 2 people on the run are luck of the draw. First dungeon we did was Bloodroot Forge and it was pretty crazy but we still blazed right through it. In all, I've experienced ONE wipe and when we came back after 5 minutes of research it was pretty much a cakewalk. A cakewalk where you had to pay attention... but a cakewalk nonetheless.

I think the big thing here is... knowing the fights. Because they all have a certain mechanic you need to understand if you're going to be successful. They all require a certain strat if you're going to complete them successfully, let alone quickly. And every one of them can be found quickly and easily online. So for me, the rule is, after wipe #2, the party pauses somewhere safe while someone looks up the fight. Doing that, I've never NOT been able to complete a dungeon, despite my relative inexperience with dungeons, my middle of the road build, and my derpy filthy casual playstyle.

And that's held true of this event even with lots of folks signing up for the wrong roles. So my point is, if your group won't stop and look up a fight strat when you encounter difficulty.... leave that group and try again. It'll save you from a lot of nightmares.

Jimmy · December 2017

I think if you are team wiping over and over on Normal, you are part of the problem.

Arobain · December 2017

the dlc dungeons are MEANT to not be played by less experienced players, you just got a bad luck this time, nobody likes getting the DLC dungeons as a random daily

Tan9oSuccka · December 2017

I grow tired of the L2P crowd with 690 CPs, in gold or purple gear.

Falkreath even on Normal can be trying with no CP, probably green gear and non optimized builds.

Sounds like the perfect storm OP. I’d recommend not doing the DLC dungeons, especially if you and your group is new and non optimized for group content.

jaws343 · December 2017

Honestly though, you should try a few more random dungeons that are easier than the DLC's before making any decisions on the difficulty of dungeons. Bloodroot Forge or Falkreath Hold, or any of the DLC dungeons, shouldn't be used as a basis for suggesting balance. Those dungeons are tough, but they are designed for players who are more experienced.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

I grow tired of the L2P crowd with 690 CPs, in gold or purple gear.

So in other words, experienced players that know what they're doing.

If someone is dying that much on ANY dungeon on normal, they absolutely need to Learn To Play. I walked into normal Mazzatun to learn the mechanics ALONE, and walked out having died less than three times, even with the totem illusion thing.

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

I’ll bring you through vet pledges and show you the ropes if you’re on NA/PC. You got poor rng for that run. Bloodroot is one of the 2 or 3 hardest dungeons out right now.

Tan9oSuccka · December 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I grow tired of the L2P crowd with 690 CPs, in gold or purple gear.

So in other words, experienced players that know what they're doing.

If someone is dying that much on ANY dungeon on normal, they absolutely need to Learn To Play. I walked into normal Mazzatun to learn the mechanics ALONE, and walked out having died less than three times, even with the totem illusion thing.

Maybe. It’s always assumed the person stinks.

I give them a break. It’s easy for me because of 690 CPs, all gold gear and understanding of the mechanics. It’s not fair to assume a new player sucks because he has none of those.

I’d like to see you solo Mazzatun normal with no CP and green gear.

shadelon · December 2017

If you're on ps4 na, i'd be happy to run you through all dungeons. They're really not anywhere near as hard as you think i promise. Bloodroot is just all about the mechanics, and i can explain the mechanics step by step.

Dymence · December 2017

Oh yeah Bloodroot Forge on normal is kinda whack. I solo carried a group through it last night only to realize the last boss actually oneshots on his heavy attacks if you don't have a proper tank. First thing I've seen that oneshots on normal, I think. Hits 21k. You can dodgeroll it though so it's all good. But I can understand your difficulties

Apache_Kid · December 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I grow tired of the L2P crowd with 690 CPs, in gold or purple gear.

So in other words, experienced players that know what they're doing.

If someone is dying that much on ANY dungeon on normal, they absolutely need to Learn To Play. I walked into normal Mazzatun to learn the mechanics ALONE, and walked out having died less than three times, even with the totem illusion thing.

Maybe. It’s always assumed the person stinks.

I give them a break. It’s easy for me because of 690 CPs, all gold gear and understanding of the mechanics. It’s not fair to assume a new player sucks because he has none of those.

I’d like to see you solo Mazzatun normal with no CP and green gear.

Why would anyone go into Mazzatun, bloodroot, or any DLC dungeon, with green gear. Why would anyone even use green gear? It's beyond easy to get a decent set of blue gear. It doesn't even require you to spend gold, although the cost will be minimal, but rather spending a few hours farming some gear in an overland zone or one of the EASIER normal dungeons. If you are running around with crap gear and wiping all the time that isn't an excuse its a problem.

Raideen · December 2017

A lot of uneducated people giving the OP hell for nothing.

My GF and I ran 8 toons each a day for the duration of the event. We are both newish to the game, I have 2 50's around 170 CP, she has 1 50 around 100 CP.

I had two characters in the mid thirties, and 1 mule. We both leveled new toons to 10 to run the dungeons for the event.

Running the low level toons through were no issues due to scaling. Low level characters often hit pretty hard with minimal gear, ESP if they have some CP to use.

However, when we ran our 50's together we got some dungeon (first time to run it) with some dwarf tank boss thing who the tank had kited in a circle around the room. Her and I wiped 3 times while the 690 tank and dps killed the boss. Some poison was one shotting us.

Apparently, this is not even that hard of a dungeon and we wiped. We also had complete group wipes a couple times on the low levels.

Because of this. We decided to group the 50's with the toons in the teens and basically try to keep a low level mixed with a high level to keep from getting the higher up dungeons that had actual mechanics vs tank and spank dungeons.

So, my limited experience with an extreme mild version of what happened to the OP lets me believe that the OP is telling the truth, might be exaggerating some, but overall I think this was a real experience for this person.

OP, next time que with a low level person so you get low level dungeons. Makes the event a lot easier to do and stomach, and also faster to get done....especially when the loot table was as dismal as this past events was.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I grow tired of the L2P crowd with 690 CPs, in gold or purple gear.

So in other words, experienced players that know what they're doing.

If someone is dying that much on ANY dungeon on normal, they absolutely need to Learn To Play. I walked into normal Mazzatun to learn the mechanics ALONE, and walked out having died less than three times, even with the totem illusion thing.

Maybe. It’s always assumed the person stinks.

I give them a break. It’s easy for me because of 690 CPs, all gold gear and understanding of the mechanics. It’s not fair to assume a new player sucks because he has none of those.

I’d like to see you solo Mazzatun normal with no CP and green gear.

So your defense is that you would like to see me solo a dungeon while pretending to play like a total idiot that:

Refuses to get proper gear
Refuses to get proper CP before queuing for hard content
And probably doesn't know their rotations.

Yeah, no. That is not a defense. That is the very definition of a L2P issue, in other words, entirely user error.

Apache_Kid · December 2017

Raideen wrote: »

A lot of uneducated people giving the OP hell for nothing.

My GF and I ran 8 toons each a day for the duration of the event. We are both newish to the game, I have 2 50's around 170 CP, she has 1 50 around 100 CP.

I had two characters in the mid thirties, and 1 mule. We both leveled new toons to 10 to run the dungeons for the event.

Running the low level toons through were no issues due to scaling. Low level characters often hit pretty hard with minimal gear, ESP if they have some CP to use.

However, when we ran our 50's together we got some dungeon (first time to run it) with some dwarf tank boss thing who the tank had kited in a circle around the room. Her and I wiped 3 times while the 690 tank and dps killed the boss. Some poison was one shotting us.

Apparently, this is not even that hard of a dungeon and we wiped. We also had complete group wipes a couple times on the low levels.

Because of this. We decided to group the 50's with the toons in the teens and basically try to keep a low level mixed with a high level to keep from getting the higher up dungeons that had actual mechanics vs tank and spank dungeons.

So, my limited experience with an extreme mild version of what happened to the OP lets me believe that the OP is telling the truth, might be exaggerating some, but overall I think this was a real experience for this person.

OP, next time que with a low level person so you get low level dungeons. Makes the event a lot easier to do and stomach, and also faster to get done....especially when the loot table was as dismal as this past events was.

For what it's worth the tank wasn't kiting the boss. It moves in a circle on it's own and cannot have it's course altered by a tank's taunt. As far as the poison you or healer have to heal through it or you need to keep your shields up while hitting all four levers in the center.

Inarre · December 2017

I ran a normal dungeon last night on my level 14 bowplar with trash gear from quest mobs (no hands or hat, level 8 bow) and no cp slotted. I had like 30k hp after scaling and I didn't die once.

I'm not saying that to discount your experience, but more to ask the question: "what could possibly have gone so wrong that a cp160 group wiped repeatedly in a normal dungeon?"

Normal dungeons to my knowledge do not have one hit mechanics (with the exception of maybe some of the dlc ones)

Raideen · December 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

A lot of uneducated people giving the OP hell for nothing.

My GF and I ran 8 toons each a day for the duration of the event. We are both newish to the game, I have 2 50's around 170 CP, she has 1 50 around 100 CP.

I had two characters in the mid thirties, and 1 mule. We both leveled new toons to 10 to run the dungeons for the event.

Running the low level toons through were no issues due to scaling. Low level characters often hit pretty hard with minimal gear, ESP if they have some CP to use.

However, when we ran our 50's together we got some dungeon (first time to run it) with some dwarf tank boss thing who the tank had kited in a circle around the room. Her and I wiped 3 times while the 690 tank and dps killed the boss. Some poison was one shotting us.

Apparently, this is not even that hard of a dungeon and we wiped. We also had complete group wipes a couple times on the low levels.

Because of this. We decided to group the 50's with the toons in the teens and basically try to keep a low level mixed with a high level to keep from getting the higher up dungeons that had actual mechanics vs tank and spank dungeons.

So, my limited experience with an extreme mild version of what happened to the OP lets me believe that the OP is telling the truth, might be exaggerating some, but overall I think this was a real experience for this person.

OP, next time que with a low level person so you get low level dungeons. Makes the event a lot easier to do and stomach, and also faster to get done....especially when the loot table was as dismal as this past events was.

For what it's worth the tank wasn't kiting the boss. It moves in a circle on it's own and cannot have it's course altered by a tank's taunt. As far as the poison you or healer have to heal through it or you need to keep your shields up while hitting all four levers in the center.

Thanks. I was getting hit for 23k, and had 21k health. Healer could not keep up with that. My 50 is still trying to get a full blue set. The only epic destroy staves that have dropped have been frost and I am not a tank.

This was just a case of us quing with our 50's into a normal thinking we could play together easily. Luckily we got into a group with 2 amazingly geared and good players who knew the mechanics.

In the future (until we are geared and have a better understanding of this game), we will just run the high levels with a low level to make life easier. lol

deepseamk20b14_ESO · December 2017

Normal dungeons are insanely easy. Too easy since one Tamriel. Honestly they should be more difficult. I’m leveling my DK as a tank and have found there isn’t even a reason to hold block on normal dungeons. It’s pathetic. Myself and 3 randoms smoked normal cradle of shadows with maybe 2 deaths, one from a guy who didn’t get out of the red circle and myself at the very end because I completely forgot about velidreths one shot move at the end lol.

I have no idea what your issue is. No reason you should be wiping.