Zos, a case for reviewing vampire skill line

rocksau1982 · November 2017

what the heck are u talking about?
the ppl i run with (pve and pvp) and me did all pve-endgame content without even one single person being a vampire.
the only real usefull skill out of being a vamp in pvp is mistform, but there are other skills that will do allmost the same (thinking bout rapid, shuffle, etc...)
so clearly u do not HAVE to be vamp to master endgame content. just l2p and stop asking for nerfs.
(btw i'm on console, incl. fps drops into oblivion, clunky controlls etc. and still.... no vamp needed)

coop500 · November 2017

While I feel vampires are too powerful and werewolves are too weak, this is a community problem, not really a game problem, if people want those extra numbers that badly it won't change if vampire is nerfed, they will just freak out and whine for years about not having as much of a advantage as they did before.

The only real two options is either A give them a way to hide it or B, increase fire damage so it has a drawback people must consider. But I am mainly in favor of B or neither.

Plus a lot of people are also vampires because it's edgy and cool to some.... >.>

Trinity_Is_My_Name · November 2017

Stop crying for nerfs!

Mureel · November 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

Hey look more calls to nerf something that is working perfectly fine as is

Anything that is considered "must have" to the extent people whine constantly about having to look ugly to use it is not, by and definition, "working fine as is".

All The Best

The bold bit is the issue, not anything else.

Tan9oSuccka · November 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Its almost like your saying people should be vampires just because with no benefits, it Would make the whole concept of vampires in eso non existent and pointless or nearly pointless

This is the impression I get too.

But I think the real problem here is you have a few vocal min/maxers who don't want to become vampires because they don't like the way they look. So instead of all these proposed and undeserved nerfs that would ruin the skill line and render it pointless what they should really be asking for here is just for some option to turn off the vampire skin. That would probably settle this problem for them entirely.

Then they could top as high as possible on their precious DPS charts without ruining the fun of others in the process.

They/we-ish have been. Repeatedly. Including in the thread linked in the original post. Then this guy came along and made this thread calling for nerfs and crap they/we-ish (minus MLG, I suppose) didn't ask for and saying he was speaking for them/us-ish and "helping."

He's not, though.

This thread is only intended to help those such as yourself who dislike the appearance of vampirism. You dislike the appearance yet you still use it. Why?

Tragically, a vampire is a vampire and a vampire does indeed look like a vampire.

Nah. It's intended to get your jollies at their expense, suggesting things they've never asked for so you can have a laugh at the storm it kicks up from those who like vampirism and think you're suggesting anything we approve of.

Good luck with that.

For those not the OP's benefit, he does not speak for us (more specifically me) and we don't want anything he's suggesting. We (more specifically I and those who also want this) just want a freaking skin, or a toggle, or a passive that hides vampirism. Like amberplasm (which already does so) but without the orange splotches. No changes to the skill line whatsoever. No mandatory requirements to use said skin. Anything other than that which he "suggests" while "trying to help people like me" is not something I/we want.

And for the record, none of my characters are vampires despite being told incessantly they should be, in no small part because yes, they do look godawful and no, there's no valid reason I have yet heard that there shouldn't be a means to hide it fully.

Enjoy your trip back under the bridge, OP. Watch out for three gruff goats.

I should have a toggle that lets my Altmer look like an Argonian.

Please do Tamriel that favor. Altmer are hideous looking things.

NobleX35 · November 2017

If ZoS had gone the route of the Vampire Lord from Skyrim, and made vampire function the same way WW does, where you get no passive benefits or debuffs and only gain the skills while in that form, then players wouldn't really have these kinds of issues. It would be a choice to go vampire and not really a necessity if you want to be competitive.

lucky_Sage · November 2017

only classes forced into vampire end game is magplars and magdks and because of lack of mobility
the why to fix this is to give both classes a snare and root removal and a snare and roots immune for a short time.

the 3 abilities are kind of weak one being almost useless. one is forced on magplars and magdks and its hurts the sustain because there class lacks mobility. the ult is just weaker than destroy ult and resto ults has better heals abd gives a dmg boost

as a magdk main I really hate being a vampire I don't like the abilities but for pvp I need mistform and need that regen as well since magdk is the ony class with only 1 form of magicka regen in there class. yes part of the reason is the way I look when I spend a good 30 min or more on making my character I want him to look how I want. not being some weird veiny and pales skin

Jeremy · November 2017

Kanar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Its almost like your saying people should be vampires just because with no benefits, it Would make the whole concept of vampires in eso non existent and pointless or nearly pointless

This is the impression I get too.

But I think the real problem here is you have a few vocal min/maxers who don't want to become vampires because they don't like the way they look. So instead of all these proposed and undeserved nerfs that would ruin the skill line and render it pointless what they should really be asking for here is just for some option to turn off the vampire skin. That would probably settle this problem for them entirely.

Then they could top as high as possible on their precious DPS charts without ruining the fun of others in the process.

They/we-ish have been. Repeatedly. Then this guy came along and made this thread calling for nerfs and crap they/we-ish (minus MLG, I suppose) didn't ask for and saying he was speaking for them/us-ish.

He's not, though.

Well that's fair enough.

I can support an option that allows players to turn off the vampire skin if they don't like it. That seems reasonable to me. A lot more reasonable then all these proposed nerfs that would essentially make the skill line useless and a waste of skill points.

Jeremy I thought you were not a min/maxer? How can such a cool ability as summoning a swarm of bats, or turning into mist, be useless? Regardless of the statistical benefit of the ability, it is a very vampire ability that any true vampire would desire.

No I'm not a min/maxer. I play to have fun - and will use what ever build I have the most fun with so long as it gets the job done. I could really care less if some other player scores higher than me on some silly number gauge.

And I never said bat swarm and mist form were useless. You're putting words in my mouth.

I said Bat Swarm was decent.... but nothing amazing. And I said Mist Form was useful in PvP for escaping across short distances and into safety. However if your nerfs were to go into effect it would become useless.

Alexandrious · November 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

How about........leave vamp as it is and buff Werewolf??

How about.....stick to the thread and zos give us a toggle or cash shop option?

Kek

Chims · November 2017

I am against a toggle, if you feel like you absolutely have to have vampire to be competitive then i feel you absolutely should have to look like one.

Urza1234 · November 2017

Samadhi wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

Hey look more calls to nerf something that is working perfectly fine as is

Anything that is considered "must have" to the extent people whine constantly about having to look ugly to use it is not, by and definition, "working fine as is".

All The Best

You'll have to explain your line of though, because I don't follow.

Something is "working as intended" because a ton of people hate the way it works? What?

All the best

How does people liking or disliking the way something works reflect on its intended functionality?

It depends on whether or not you intend people to like your game.

NyassaV · November 2017

coop500 wrote: »

While I feel vampires are too powerful and werewolves are too weak, this is a community problem, not really a game problem, if people want those extra numbers that badly it won't change if vampire is nerfed, they will just freak out and whine for years about not having as much of a advantage as they did before.

The only real two options is either A give them a way to hide it or B, increase fire damage so it has a drawback people must consider. But I am mainly in favor of B or neither.

Plus a lot of people are also vampires because it's edgy and cool to some.... >.>

WW are not weak at all in some cases. Up agaisnt a magicka build that doesn't have dawnbreaker they will nearly always win, sometimes with damage oriented stam builds too. However it takes too much damage from things that they can't kill anyways

ak_pvp · November 2017

Give WW beast blood and give them regen+undeath equivalent. The extra ha damage/armour etc that is made to even out transformation imbalances can stay only in ult,

idk · November 2017

@Kanar

Your opening post in here is baseless claims that seem to be made so you can somehow justify our attempt to get zos to gut the vamp line.

Make over generalizations with nothing more than 4 quotes that could be merely one player, could be yourself, expect to be asked to back it up with proof.

Link the proof or it is nothing.

Just looking and OP seems to have avoided this thread since it's first day. My guess is it was demonstrated already the flaw in his discussion.

Ratzkifal · November 2017

VvardeFellow wrote: »

"A large section of the player base feels ...." Assertion to be substantiated.

"we have to..." no supporting material.

"ZOS attached insanely..." More of a hyperbolic opinion than fact.

"Everyone and their mother...." Seriously? is that supposed to be taken with any modicum of credibility?

"you MUST..." Speaks for itself, and opinion full of itself but hollow.

@VvardeFellow Those four lines are quotes from other vampire related threads. I recognize some of them so take the 4 statements as substantiation of the "a large section". The rest, well these people have to speak for themselves.

Personally I am bummed out to see that (almost) every guide I look at say that I should go vampire. I don't because it is ugly, but then I see myself doing bad on recovery so I change some glyphs only to be then lacking damage. Sometimes that little difference can put a niche build below the viability threshold (and I love niche builds), so it's sad to be unable to for cosmetic reasons. Glad to hear that the hide-option "has been noted".

Ratzkifal · November 2017

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Its almost like your saying people should be vampires just because with no benefits, it Would make the whole concept of vampires in eso non existent and pointless or nearly pointless

As a roleplayer I certainly would be looking forward to the system you just described. But a little bit of balancing/the hide option could do the trick too ^^

idk · November 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

VvardeFellow wrote: »

"A large section of the player base feels ...." Assertion to be substantiated.

"we have to..." no supporting material.

"ZOS attached insanely..." More of a hyperbolic opinion than fact.

"Everyone and their mother...." Seriously? is that supposed to be taken with any modicum of credibility?

"you MUST..." Speaks for itself, and opinion full of itself but hollow.

@VvardeFellow Those four lines are quotes from other vampire related threads. I recognize some of them so take the 4 statements as substantiation of the "a large section". The rest, well these people have to speak for themselves.

Personally I am bummed out to see that (almost) every guide I look at say that I should go vampire. I don't because it is ugly, but then I see myself doing bad on recovery so I change some glyphs only to be then lacking damage. Sometimes that little difference can put a niche build below the viability threshold (and I love niche builds), so it's sad to be unable to for cosmetic reasons. Glad to hear that the hide-option "has been noted".

@Ratzkifal 4 quotes is hardly an indication of a large portion of the game player base.

OP would have a lot more credit to his statement if he came off as merely stating his opinion, which is all OP did anyhow. Making baseless over generalization, especially starting off with them, is along the lines of commenting that I think we can all agree on X. Probably not.

Kanar · November 2017

idk wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

VvardeFellow wrote: »

"A large section of the player base feels ...." Assertion to be substantiated.

"we have to..." no supporting material.

"ZOS attached insanely..." More of a hyperbolic opinion than fact.

"Everyone and their mother...." Seriously? is that supposed to be taken with any modicum of credibility?

"you MUST..." Speaks for itself, and opinion full of itself but hollow.

@VvardeFellow Those four lines are quotes from other vampire related threads. I recognize some of them so take the 4 statements as substantiation of the "a large section". The rest, well these people have to speak for themselves.

Personally I am bummed out to see that (almost) every guide I look at say that I should go vampire. I don't because it is ugly, but then I see myself doing bad on recovery so I change some glyphs only to be then lacking damage. Sometimes that little difference can put a niche build below the viability threshold (and I love niche builds), so it's sad to be unable to for cosmetic reasons. Glad to hear that the hide-option "has been noted".

@Ratzkifal 4 quotes is hardly an indication of a large portion of the game player base.

OP would have a lot more credit to his statement if he came off as merely stating his opinion, which is all OP did anyhow. Making baseless over generalization, especially starting off with them, is along the lines of commenting that I think we can all agree on X. Probably not.

It was satire based on all the whining about vampire looks and that not being a vampire is not an option. I personally dgaf other than having some mild annoyance as they turn into a fart puff and run away in cyrodiil.

Ratzkifal · November 2017

@idk I am well aware, that's why I used wrote it like this -> "a large section"

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Werewolves should get their passives without having to use any werewolf skills as well.

10k extra armor, 20% boost in stam, 18% extra weapon damage, double resource return on heavy attacks and random feeding should definitely be a thing.

#parity

I would be cool with it, if they have the drawbacks constantly up as well

Or at least add good active skills for vamps.

Mefromnorway · November 2017

Why so many people only talk about nerf. this game only make people mad with evrything they nerf, we pay so many money for play and eso only nerf different roles for som big mouthed people write about this in forum, i paid for my wampire in shop with real money why should i be nerfed ??? for some people cry about this in forum,

idk · November 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@idk I am well aware, that's why I used wrote it like this -> "a large section"

So a large section now equals some players.

Are you suggesting a large section do not feel forced to be a vampire hence no changes are needed?

See how that works when over-generalizing. Allows someone to almost say what they want without impunity unless someone picks up on the misleading statement.

Kanar · February 2018

There's another poor soul being forced into vampirism. At this point I'm wondering if ZoS devs are vampires themselves, since they are forcibly creating so many:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393486/vampire-skincolor-cosmetic-changes/p1

VaranisArano · February 2018

That moment when a thread from a couple months ago pops back up in my Participated Threads and I'm like "has this conversation been going on this whole time and I missed it?"

No. Just letting me know about a new thread over the same topic.

dragonz868 · February 2018

Problem is what your calling for would make it useless too.. So people saying they have to be it if they want to be any good... Doing what your asking, with that train of thought means they would NEVER be any good. So if they have to be Vamp to do decent damage lets nerf it so they can't do any... Yeah makes sense... Not.. lol

Kanar · July 2018

Does ZoS depravity know no boundaries? They continue to force players, against their will, into becoming vampires:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427242/disguising-vampirism-its-time/p1
Isn't it time the vampire skill line should be redesigned along the lines of werewolf, so that players are not forced to be vampires when they don't want to be?

DanteYoda · July 2018

Honestly i don't care for Vampire much at all but forcing players to get it to compete with others imo is the definition of overpowered and something needs to be done..

I personally feel Vampire should be something players get for fun not to boost their characters a lot.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

Obligatory necro thread comment, and inb4 lock.

But to the point, vampirism definitely needs some reworking (nobody uses the active skills!) but to make it work like werewolf? Not sure I'm on board with that.

regime211 · July 2018

Naw how about give back invisbility to the bat ultimate and buff its damage.